Why women criticise sexualised character designs (READ OP)

[cosmicblizzard]

Also, let's not pretend that for most companies, this is just making a quick buck, and not about making sure they're in the black.

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Well, that happens too of course. That's just the nature of capitalism really. Maximizing profits with the least amount of work will always be the ideal model for most companies.

The thing is a lot of these creators legitimately like this kind of content as well, so that adds another layer to the whole thing.

 

[chocolate]

The new Persona dancing games reveal "high cut armor costumes" for the female characters and "buttler" customes for the boys.
Oh god.

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The butler outfits for the guys looks pretty good.

 

[Opa-Pa]

The new Persona dancing games reveal "high cut armor costumes" for the female characters and "buttler" customes for the boys.
Oh god.

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At long last, sexism is over and a true balance has been reached.

Liking these games is hard.

 

[chocolate]

At long last, sexism is over and a true balance has been reached.

Liking these games is hard.

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I'm gonna get my ass kicked for this but...

It's fan service for both the guys and the girl players.

Japanese game's have always been oot with the fanservice. It could just be me in this case, but what's wrong with the costumes?

Unless you want the guys to run around in bath towels to "balance" it out? They had that in P3 btw, the guys running around in swimwear and undies.

 

[Opa-Pa]

I don't believe in balance supposedly fixing anything, but I mean, look at how different kinds of pandering they are. The girls wearing bikini armor is nonsensical and denigrating while butler uniforms are simply classy, real clothes that just so happen to appeal to a certain fetish, it's kind of the same with swimwear of course. You could argue they create a balance with the maid ones, but that's about it.

There's no real male equivalent for those armors and that just goes to show how women have always been at a "disadvantage"

 

[Deleted member 4037]

I don't believe in balance supposedly fixing anything, but I mean, look at how different kinds of pandering they are. The girls wearing bikini armor is nonsensical and denigrating while butler uniforms are simply classy, real clothes that just so happen to appeal to a certain fetish, it's kind of the same with swimwear of course. You could argue they create a balance with the maid ones, but that's about it.

There's no real male equivalent for those armors and that just goes to show how women have always been at a "disadvantage"

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To be fair, that was never the point of the post. It said there are maid and butler outfits and thats about it, nothing about the moral implications

 

[Morrigan]

he Shining games have been niche-ish for a while now and the series likely wouldn't have survived if it didn't go down that route.

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Let's not kid ourselves, Shining Force is dead, buried and fossilized and has been since Shining Force 3 on the Sega Saturn (that's like 3 generations ago now). I don't know how well those newer games sell or not, but they have nothing to do with Shining Force and could have just as easily been called "Mighty Force of Light" or something else, and the whales would still eat it up, and at least Shining fans wouldn't be weeping in alienation.

 

[chocolate]

For the outfits in the Persona dancing game, I think it's just a matter of perspective.

I think it's fan servicey on both sides. The guys get fan serviced their own way, and the girls get fan serviced their own way as well.

It's just different.

I've talked to my gf and some other female friends to get their take on this and they didn't seem put off by it. Their take was guys and girls will always be portrayed differently, and that it's a matter of opinion and perspective if it's chosen to be interpreted as disadvantaged or not.

I guess what they were trying to say was, two people can look at the same thing, yet see it completely differently.

 

[Lotus]

It's just different.

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Understatement lol

 

[Dmax3901]

For the outfits in the Persona dancing game, I think it's just a matter of perspective.

I think it's fan servicey on both sides. The guys get fan serviced their own way, and the girls get fan serviced their own way as well.

It's just different.

I've talked to my gf and some other female friends to get their take on this and they didn't seem put off by it. Their take was guys and girls will always be portrayed differently, and that it's a matter of opinion and perspective if it's chosen to be interpreted as disadvantaged or not.

I guess what they were trying to say was, two people can look at the same thing, yet see it completely differently.

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This post is commendable in how many boxes it ticks.

 

[cosmicblizzard]

Let's not kid ourselves, Shining Force is dead, buried and fossilized and has been since Shining Force 3 on the Sega Saturn (that's like 3 generations ago now). I don't know how well those newer games sell or not, but they have nothing to do with Shining Force and could have just as easily been called "Mighty Force of Light" or something else, and the whales would still eat it up, and at least Shining fans wouldn't be weeping in alienation.

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To be fair, I said Shining series, not Shining Force. That's only one aspect of the series and it's not even the start of it (Shining in the Darkness).

But yeah, Force is pretty dead. They haven't even used Force in a title for like 9 years now. Why they thought just slapping the title onto 2 ARPGs was a good idea is beyond me.

 

[chocolate]

Understatement lol

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How would you put it?

Does it have to be an eye for an eye in terms of presentation?

So the guys have to be in skimpy battle outfits too? I don't mind that. Just wondering how you would rectify this "problem."

 

[norealmx]

Looks a the P5 outfits.

Looks back at thread.

Remembers why I decided to bail out.

And here's hoping Nintendo puts bikini Samus in Prime 4, if only for the giggles.

 

[esserius]

Let's not kid ourselves, Shining Force is dead, buried and fossilized and has been since Shining Force 3 on the Sega Saturn (that's like 3 generations ago now). I don't know how well those newer games sell or not, but they have nothing to do with Shining Force and could have just as easily been called "Mighty Force of Light" or something else, and the whales would still eat it up, and at least Shining fans wouldn't be weeping in alienation.

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It's definitely one of those particularly weird scenarios where the name is literally all that's left. People who buy the modern games are vaguely aware that there's a series of games, but are pretty much entirely unaware of any of the original characters or scenarios.

Not actually sure if that's better or worse, to be honest, given the clusterfuck that is Hyrule's timeline.

 

[Twig]

How would you put it?

Does it have to be an eye for an eye in terms of presentation?

So the guys have to be in skimpy battle outfits too? I don't mind that. Just wondering how you would rectify this "problem."

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Lmao nice scare quotes, I can tell you are genuinely arguing in good faith and not just willfully ignoring the difference between a fucking chainmail bikini and a butler outfit

Real genuine shit I'm seeing

 

[Antiwhippy]

The persona fanservice outfits is actually kinda an example of what I was talking about earlier regarding male vs female fanservice, because while fanservice for the female audience trendste be more about personality and kind of the "role" they play in that "fantasy", fanservice for the male audience tends to break the female body down into it's individual fetish parts that can be dehumanising?

 

[Ferrs]

Looks a the P5 outfits.

Looks back at thread.

Remembers why I decided to bail out.

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Yet here you are.

 

[Redcrayon]

I'm gonna get my ass kicked for this but...

It's fan service for both the guys and the girl players.

Japanese game's have always been oot with the fanservice. It could just be me in this case, but what's wrong with the costumes?

Unless you want the guys to run around in bath towels to "balance" it out? They had that in P3 btw, the guys running around in swimwear and undies.

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Can you really not see the difference in approach? Not all fanservice is created equal.

 

[Deleted member 5535]

Can you really not see the difference in approach? Not all fanservice is created equal.

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This seems just like the extra outfits of the main game tbh If people didn't complained about it since it was a option (I don't remember if it happened or not, correct me if I'm wrong), I don't know why now since here it's also a option where you decide what the character will wear.

 

[chocolate]

Lmao nice scare quotes, I can tell you are genuinely arguing in good faith and not just willfully ignoring the difference between a fucking chainmail bikini and a butler outfit

Real genuine shit I'm seeing

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Like I said, everyone perceives problems differently. What one person considered to be a big problem, doesn't mean others will see it as such.

As you can see from my post, I was, quite genuinely, asking the other person how they would interpret the situation, and what their thoughts would be to rectify the issue.

How about try to uncover people's meaning before trying to pick fights and be snarky?

This is the problem with such discussions. People turn sour instantly over small misunderstandings instead of asking for further clarification.

You can't expect people to try and help or understand if you're going to be snarky right off the bat. You're not helping at all tbh. Not with that attitude.

 

[Xaszatm]

This seems just like the extra outfits of the main game tbh If people didn't complained about it since it was a option (I don't remember if it happened or not, correct me if I'm wrong), I don't know why now since here it's also a option where you decide what the character will wear.

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Probably because these outfits are front and center in the advertising? I don't remember these extra outfits being displayed in big advertisements about the game. Or is the director finally admitting that he is Kadoshima?

 

[Mesoian]

The new Persona dancing games reveal "high cut armor costumes" for the female characters and "buttler" customes for the boys.
Oh god.

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"Hey these butler costumes are pretty good and the maid outfits aren't super pandering bullshit! I'm genuinely surprised Atl- oh there is.

There it is.

::Sigh:: There it is."

 

[chocolate]

Can you really not see the difference in approach? Not all fanservice is created equal.

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I can see the difference.

The male and female characters are presented differently, something I've already and willingly acknowledged.

You said it's not equal presentation.

So what needs to be done?

Do away with the outfits altogether? Make the male characters also have revealing outfits?

I'm genuinely asking btw.

Not saying you, but it seems I need to say this in nearly every post or else another poster will give me attitude and try to paint me as the "bad guy."

I'll also say that what appeals to guys is different to what appeals to girls.

 

[Xaszatm]

Like I said, everyone perceives problems differently. What one person considered to be a big problem, doesn't mean others will see it as such.

As you can see from my post, I was, quite genuinely, asking the other person how they would interpret the situation, and what their thoughts would be to rectify the issue.

How about try to uncover people's meaning before trying to pick fights and be snarky?

This is the problem with such discussions. People turn sour instantly over small misunderstandings instead of asking for further clarification.

You can't expect people to try and help or understand if you're going to be snarky right off the bat. You're not helping at all tbh. Not with that attitude.

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Probably because we've gone over this...let's see here...just under 14,000 posts of this exact argument. Eventually we just get sick of explaining this point again and again and again. There's an OP with all the relevant information.

As for your post....what's not to get? Men get full body costumes and women get bikini armor.

 

[Antiwhippy]

I mean the thing is the high cut armour isn't meant to be the equivalent of the butler outfits. There are already maid outfits for that lol.

 

[Mesoian]

I'm gonna get my ass kicked for this but...

It's fan service for both the guys and the girl players.

Japanese game's have always been oot with the fanservice. It could just be me in this case, but what's wrong with the costumes?

Unless you want the guys to run around in bath towels to "balance" it out? They had that in P3 btw, the guys running around in swimwear and undies.

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Like....REAL TALK, Anne and Ryuji's stories were against people who are literally the target demographic for those outfits. Literally. The first boss of Persona 5 is the dude who fantasizes about putting all of his students in outfits like those.

THEY KNOW it's a problem. A SIGNIFICANT CHUNK of their main game is about things like this being a problem. They don't care because it will sell.

Game Industry.

 

[BBboy20]

The Internet freaked out over a scene in 'The Leftovers' where you went jogging in revealing sweatpants. Did that scrutiny give you some understanding of what it's like to be a woman in Hollywood?
It kind of did. I don't want to say objectified, but it was embarrassing. It's like having someone yank your shorts down in public. It doesn't feel great. Anyone who has an unflattering picture taken of them would probably say, "Join the club."
I don't think it was unflattering.
It has the appearance of a compliment, but it's more mortifying than anything else.
Source: https://www.elle.com/culture/celebrities/interviews/a38872/cherchez-la-femme-justin-theroux/?visibilityoverride

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...and people are in a culture war over a totally fictional character's private parts right now.

 

[Mesoian]

I mean the thing is the high cut armour isn't meant to be the equivalent of the butler outfits. There are already maid outfits for that lol.

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It's PARTICULARLY dissapointing because you see the bulters and maids on top and it's like "hey, this is some fanservice that's not super shitty pandering! Way to shape up guys!"

And then you scroll down and it's like...

And then YOU feel foolish because you gave them the benefit of the doubt.

I can see the difference.

The male and female characters are presented differently, something I've already and willingly acknowledged.

You said it's not equal presentation.

So what needs to be done?

Do away with the outfits altogether? Make the male characters also have revealing outfits?

I'm genuinely asking btw.

Not saying you, but it seems I need to say this in nearly every post or else another poster will give me attitude and try to paint me as the "bad guy."

I'll also say that what appeals to guys is different to what appeals to girls.

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How about do some fun fanservice stuff that doesn't completely undermine the characters they spent 80+ hours defining?

I mean shit dude. This is actually fucking shitty. It's, "we know this game doesn't have enough merit on it's own to sell, so we'll just fill it with softcore porn to get that ASSURED money, and move on".

Like, why bother doing it at all at that point. When you're basically tacitly admitting that the game won't do numbers unless you do this, why bother doing that at all?

 

[Xaszatm]

I can see the difference.

The male and female characters are presented differently, something I've already and willingly acknowledged.

You said it's not equal presentation.

So what needs to be done?

Do away with the outfits altogether? Make the male characters also have revealing outfits?

I'm genuinely asking btw.

Not saying you, but it seems I need to say this in nearly every post or else another poster will give me attitude and try to paint me as the "bad guy."

I'll also say that what appeals to guys is different to what appeals to girls.

Click to shrink...

Probably for these costumes to actually show the personality for one. Nothing about the battle costumes are really personality related. The closest you can get is Futaba's costume clearly being a Dragon Quest callback so a slight connection to her "nerdy" habits. And even then that's a stretch given her interests are more in computer hacking.

 

[Twig]

Like I said, everyone perceives problems differently. What one person considered to be a big problem, doesn't mean others will see it as such.

As you can see from my post, I was, quite genuinely, asking the other person how they would interpret the situation, and what their thoughts would be to rectify the issue.

How about try to uncover people's meaning before trying to pick fights and be snarky?

This is the problem with such discussions. People turn sour instantly over small misunderstandings instead of asking for further clarification.

You can't expect people to try and help or understand if you're going to be snarky right off the bat. You're not helping at all tbh. Not with that attitude.

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You began the snark with the scare quotes, insinuating that you, for some reason, don't believe it's actually a problem. Also your assertion that "well some people are okay with it" is disingenuous at best. It's completely dismissing the issue because "my girlfriend said it's okay", as if one or a few or even more than a few women can speak for all. That one might find it okay does NOT mean that another should pretend it doesn't bother them or make them uncomfortable or worse.

So, forgive my snark. Your dismissive tone drove me to it. If you didn't intend to sound dismissive, then perhaps some reflection on how you present your opinions is in order.

EDIT: Also, read the OP.

 

[chocolate]

Probably because we've gone over this...let's see here...just under 14,000 posts of this exact argument. Eventually we just get sick of explaining this point again and again and again. There's an OP with all the relevant information.

As for your post....what's not to get? Men get full body costumes and women get bikini armor.

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I'm new to this thread. I'm not going to read 14K posts.

The thing with these types of discussions is, not everyone enters the convo at the beginning. Which means treating people who decided to participate out of interest initially to see what they can do, and treating them like the other people you've argued with, is not a good way to get people to willingly participate and hopefully do something.

In other words, don't paint everyone with the same brush.

Anyway, yes I agree that there is a huge difference in the presentation.

As another poster just said, it's about the $$.

It works. That's why they do it.

Atlus is a Japanese company. At this point in time, I don't think they're going to listen to westerners on this. Especially when there's so much merchandise and waifu pillows to sell.

 

[Xaszatm]

...and people are in a culture war over a totally fictional character's private parts right now.

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You will notice that most of us are also taking offense and action against that as well. Surprisingly, it is possible to deal with multiple problems at once. Nice try in shaming us for actually wanting change in the gaming industry by using whataboutism's though. You're only the 72nd person to do so.

 

[Twig]

You will notice that most of us are also taking offense and action against that as well. Surprisingly, it is possible to deal with multiple problems at once. Nice try in shaming us for actually wanting change in the gaming industry by using whataboutism's though. You're only the 72nd person to do so.

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72 seems to be quite an underestimation, lol

 

[chocolate]

You began the snark with the scare quotes, insinuating that you, for some reason, don't believe it's actually a problem. Also your assertion that "well some people are okay with it" is disingenuous at best. It's completely dismissing the issue because "my girlfriend said it's okay", as if one or a few or even more than a few women can speak for all. That one might find it okay does NOT mean that another should pretend it doesn't bother them or make them uncomfortable or worse.

So, forgive my snark. Your dismissive tone drove me to it. If you didn't intend to sound dismissive, then perhaps some reflection on how you present your opinions is in order.

EDIT: Also, read the OP.

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Sigh I can already see how this is going to go.

I've made it clear in my other post that I was genuinely asking..

Alright. I'll reflect.

I will say that perhaps reflection also needs to be done on your part if you're instantly getting triggered and angry over a post where someone was asking what the other persons thoughts were, and how they would fix the problem.

Someone who was purposely trolling would not ask the other person what their thoughts and opinions are.

Just some food for thought.

 

[Mesoian]

Atlus is a Japanese company. At this point in time, I don't think they're going to listen to westerners on this. Especially when there's so much merchandise and waifu pillows to sell.

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Alright cool.

With that said, i don't wanna hear shit from them about "What do we have to do to make these games sell better worldwide?" or "Why isn't Persona a bigger franchise?"

They know what they're doing. They're going for that quick money that hurts their brand. They can do that, it's up to them, but I don't wanna hear shit about "Man...things just ain't sellin...I WONDER WHY..."

And yeah, I'm not buying this now.

 

[Redcrayon]

I can see the difference.

The male and female characters are presented differently, something I've already and willingly acknowledged.

You said it's not equal presentation.

So what needs to be done?

Do away with the outfits altogether? Make the male characters also have revealing outfits?

I'm genuinely asking btw.

Not saying you, but it seems I need to say this in nearly every post or else another poster will give me attitude and try to paint me as the "bad guy."

I'll also say that what appeals to guys is different to what appeals to girls.

Click to shrink...

What needs to be done? How about treat the teenage girl characters with the same level of respect as the male ones, giving them a range of outfits to choose from that are attractive but aren't mostly fetish gear for Otaku? Yes, what men and women find attractive is different. That doesn't mean that there are no options for attractive, cool and sexy female costumes other than this pandering stuff.

I don't get this idea that 'that's what men like and so it has be nearly-naked teen girls in fetish gear for the optional costumes'. I'm a guy, and find all kinds of stuff sexy without my wife needing to wander around in a chainmail bikini, maid outfit or dog collar. In the range of outfits offered, Could they really find no other options for outfits for a group of attractive young female characters to wear, outside of 'maid' and 'S&M club night', that a male audience might still find attractive? It's leaning into Otaku bait, not just 'what appeals to guys'.

 

[Xaszatm]

72 seems to be quite an underestimation, lol

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Honestly I just picked two numbers at random. I probably should have added another two digits.

I'm new to this thread. I'm not going to read 14K posts.

The thing with these types of discussions is, not everyone enters the convo at the beginning. Which means treating people who decided to participate out of interest initially to see what they can do, and treating them like the other people you've argued with, is not a good way to get people to willingly participate and hopefully do something.

In other words, don't paint everyone with the same brush.

Anyway, yes I agree that there is a huge difference in the presentation.

As another poster just said, it's about the $$.

It works. That's why they do it.

Atlus is a Japanese company. At this point in time, I don't think they're going to listen to westerners on this. Especially when there's so much merchandise and waifu pillows to sell.

Click to shrink...

I mean, fine, let's pretend fanservice is all fine and dandy and totally not incredibly skivvy. From a personality standpoint this still makes no sense. Like...is it too much to ask for fanservice to at least make sense with the characters they built for them? Like, if you going to make a fanservice game, wouldn't it be better for the characters personality to actually match whatever skimpy outfit you make them wear?

 

[Deleted member 35077]

Honestly, from my little experience of otome games and anime I never really ever came across a design as sexualise as those bikini armor, the worst it ever gets is the token shirtless character and maybe skintight clothes, highlighting their pecs and ass. Even beach episodes are pretty tame in comparison to harem anime, with most of the fan service coming from the character interactions.

 

[chocolate]

What needs to be done? How about treat the teenage girl characters with the same level of respect as the male ones, giving them a range of outfits to choose from that are attractive but aren't mostly fetish gear for Otaku? Yes, what men and women find attractive is different. That doesn't mean that there are no options for attractive, cool and sexy female costumes other than this pandering stuff.

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That sounds fair to me.

How will the Japanese companies listen though? That's the next question.

Alright cool.

With that said, i don't wanna hear shit from them about "What do we have to do to make these games sell better worldwide?" or "Why isn't Persona a bigger franchise?"

They know what they're doing. They're going for that quick money that hurts their brand. They can do that, it's up to them, but I don't wanna hear shit about "Man...things just ain't sellin...I WONDER WHY..."

And yeah, I'm not buying this now.

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That's a good solution tbh.

Voting with wallets. No sarcasm btw.

 

[Twig]

I'm pretty intimately familiar with troll tactics - which, by the way, include what you say they wouldn't do - and I don't think you're trolling. I think you're dismissive.

At least you dropped the scare quotes. Now you acknowledge it actually IS a problem. Thank you.

But "triggered", oh boy c'mon bud.

 

[Mesoian]

That sounds fair to me.

How will the Japanese companies listen though? That's the next question.



That's a good solution tbh.

Voting with wallets. No sarcasm btw.

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Like, real talk, It's 2018.

"Because Japan" isn't an excuse anymore.

If they can't sell a game without fetishizing 15 year olds, they can't sell a game.

 

[cosmicblizzard]

Like....REAL TALK, Anne and Ryuji's stories were against people who are literally the target demographic for those outfits. Literally. The first boss of Persona 5 is the dude who fantasizes about putting all of his students in outfits like those.

THEY KNOW it's a problem. A SIGNIFICANT CHUNK of their main game is about things like this being a problem. They don't care because it will sell.

Game Industry.

Click to shrink...

The Kamoshida arc is about it when there's a power dynamic and it's non-consensual. If they're wearing it of their own free will, it's pretty different.

And yes, I know fictional characters don't have agency, but two different things are being communicated here.

 

[chocolate]

I'm pretty intimately familiar with troll tactics - which, by the way, include what you say they wouldn't do - and I don't think you're trolling. I think you're dismissive.

At least you dropped the scare quotes. Now you acknowledge it actually IS a problem. Thank you.

But "triggered", oh boy c'mon bud.

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Hey look, I was directing a quote to someone else, you misunderstood and jumped in and started going off with sarcasm and swear words.

That sounds "triggered" to me.

I already acknowledged perhaps reflection needs to be done on my part to improve my communication. Something I'm more than happy to do.

Dismissive is something I am not. I'm fine with admitting my faults and what I need to improve upon.

I see that you totally dismissed my critique on your communication style.

You're still at it with the attitude.

 

[Mesoian]

The Kamoshida arc is about it when there's a power dynamic and it's non-consensual. If they're wearing it of their own free will, it's pretty different.

And yes, I know fictional characters don't have agency, but two different things are being communicated here.

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I would go as far to say that if you're using those outfits, you are assuming Kaomshida's role in that dynamic.

BECAUSE WHY ELSE WOULD YOU USE THEM?

 

[chocolate]

Like, real talk, It's 2018.

"Because Japan" isn't an excuse anymore.

If they can't sell a game without fetishizing 15 year olds, they can't sell a game.

Click to shrink...

Hmm. Culture differences do need to be considered here.

The culture and social behaviour in Japan is vastly different to that of western society.

Let me use an example. The atrocious harem and otome/young girl anime popularity is on the rise.

It's quite disturbing. However, it appears that the entertainment medium for anime in Japan is more focused on fetishising very young girls.

In Japan, this is what's in right now.

Try to pull that off in western society and it won't fly at all. It's a big difference.

 

[Twig]

Hey look, I was directing a quote to someone else, you misunderstood and jumped in and started going off with sarcasm and swear words.

That sounds "triggered" to me.

I already acknowledged perhaps reflection needs to be done on my part to improve my communication. Something I'm more than happy to do.

Dismissive is something I am not. I'm fine with admitting my faults and what I need to improve upon.

I see that you totally dismissed my critique on your communication style.

You're still at it with the attitude.

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Uh, okay. This is not productive and you are missing or ignoring my entire point because you don't like my tone. Carry on. We're done.

 

[chocolate]

You kinda just proved my point about your ignoring my critique but ok. Let's move on.

 

[Mesoian]

Hmm. Culture differences do need to be considered here.

The culture and social behaviour in Japan is vastly different to that of western society.

Let me use an example. The atrocious harem and otome/young girl anime popularity is on the rise.

It's quite disturbing. However, it appears that the entertainment medium for anime in Japan is more focused on fetishising very young girls.

In Japan, this is what's in right now.

Try to pull that off in western society and it won't fly at all. It's a big difference.

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Then your game won't fly and I hope to hell that you're satisfied with Japan only otaku markets, because that's all you're ever going to get. Hard stop.

Like seriously, if your goal is 20,000 units...good luck. It probably won't be worth your time and you will get no play outside of Japan.

But I don't wanna hear any complaints on their end. None. No, "Well, if you want more persona 5, you should buy the collectors edition" or "make some noise about our products if you want more RPG's in the future". If these are the gambles they're using to bet the brand on, they're fucking sunk.

And make no mistake, we will CONTINUE to criticize the fuck out of your dumb fetishy bullshit.

 

[Xaszatm]

You know...I just realized this but there are a lot of implicit "you probably had sex with this person" moments in Persona 5 or at the very least a lot of "you begin a romantic relationship with this person" moments...

 

[cosmicblizzard]

Alright cool.

With that said, i don't wanna hear shit from them about "What do we have to do to make these games sell better worldwide?" or "Why isn't Persona a bigger franchise?"

They know what they're doing. They're going for that quick money that hurts their brand. They can do that, it's up to them, but I don't wanna hear shit about "Man...things just ain't sellin...I WONDER WHY..."

And yeah, I'm not buying this now.

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Who's saying why isn't Persona a bigger franchise? Atlus were ecstatic with the sales they got from P5. I'd argue they hit the ceiling of a console turn-based JRPG in 2017 with that kind of art style and story. Removing sexualization entirely probably wouldn't have effected it at all and maybe even hurt sales. People really underestimate the importance of whales.

I would go as far to say that if you're using those outfits, you are assuming Kaomshida's role in that dynamic.

BECAUSE WHY ELSE WOULD YOU USE THEM?

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The whole point of Kamoshida's palace is he made the girls sex slaves and tortured the boys. There's no ambiguity there even if the girls liked it because it was all in his head. Meanwhile in the real world he was taking it out on real people. Again, it was a matter of power dynamics and consent. If the girls in P5 Dancing are legitimately cool with wearing that stuff, it's quite a bit different than the #metoo precursor that is Kamoshida.

If you want to argue it's out of character, well that's a different issue entirely.