I mean establishing Persona as a power fantasy then putting the main character in a situation that gives you little control for a lengthy period of time would clash with said power fantasy design philosophy.
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Why women criticise sexualised character designs (READ OP)
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And I've already said that I do not consider it necessary for all to be myself. I'm also quite capable of deciding for myself where my proper place is here or anywhere else.
Don't have any idea what you mean by projecting with that. I considered it an appropriate description of that aspect of the dynamics the way the games executed them, given how little emphasis said games place on it as part of the experience (along with how little the stories bother acknowledging choices related to it).
I already have far more issues with P3 beyond how it handled S. Links, which I've already gone into elsewhere. And I never stated them to be nothing more than dating sims (and even if that were the case, one where everyone who can be romanced must be romanced doesn't sound like a particularly good one).
Again, no idea where you're getting the idea that I believe that romancing them is the only valid outcome when I already criticized the idea of that being the only choice.
Just affirming what you said. I don't see taking an attitude as necessary.
hahahahaha
hahah
haha
hhhaaaaaaaaaaaa
HASDHAISDVBPAIWRNB
i'll admit to loving metal gear solid a lot, and i know they got a lot of problems
i've made my peace with that
i would like him to be better, but know he'll never be better
good lord he sure is an idiot isn't he i can't believe he's doing this again
HA!
It's not about having fictional rationale for titillation and I just don't understand why people couldn't get that. Every time I try to explain the concept of malleable context, I feel silly.
Yeah...
And I mean, like, there are stories where I feel problematic things are contextualized in such a way that it contributes to the message, or themes, or what have you. Kojima sure ain't the guy to pull that off, though. The vast vast vast majority of games writers can't pull that off.
"The Spielberg of video games"? Please. Also that reason, wow, that criticism of Quiet really went in one ear and out the other, huh?
Skin... problems... breath...
Anyway, anyone else following the development of Selling Sunlight?
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cosebelle/selling-sunlight-a-wandering-merchant-rpg/description
My first KS I back, can not wait for this game.
Anyway, anyone else following the development of Selling Sunlight?
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cosebelle/selling-sunlight-a-wandering-merchant-rpg/description
My first KS I back, can not wait for this game.
Hey guys I decided to take a break from this thread for a while for my sanity but no I think...
sees the nonsense that happened last page
...well, I guess things have been progressing just as normally...
But yeah, Kojima's works are very questionable these days...
sees the nonsense that happened last page
...well, I guess things have been progressing just as normally...
But yeah, Kojima's works are very questionable these days...
...y-you mean where it started?
Oh...hmm...Custer's Revenge? One of the scores of nude majong games coming out of japan?
Maaaaaaaaaan, I want that game to have a higher budget maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan.
I hadn't heard about that. I thought Raiden was a troll character to piss off Snake fans. In any case, schoolgirls aren't all female players haha.
It was a survey aimed at women who didn't play games often as he was curious if there was anything they could do to change that. He said one response really stood out and it was one that said "I hate games about stupid old men!". The person that said that also insisted that she'd never even consider a game with a lead like that. He said that response kinda depressed the team so they looked into how they could remedy that and Raiden was the result. Shinkawa actually thought he was joking initially as he came to him and told him that he wanted the lead to be "an exceptionally beautiful young man".
Wow, this looks really interesting, thanks for sharing it :D
I don't find it surprising anymore that people find sexist stuff ok. Most people grow up with it, and even worse, it's still exceptionally difficult to find media that isn't. Most people don't even question that thing X they like could be sexist, it's just "normal", but that's also the problem. It's so ingrained by the time most people can do anything about it (or are even aware of it), that you're probably spending a long time trying to undo beliefs built into a person for decades. It's a barrier created by the world men have created. And worst of all, the systems currently in place are engineered to keep it that way. And unfortunately, they have become very, very successful.
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You DENSE fool, Kojima. Someone really should have a talk with him.
Like...it's not the backstory that's the problem here...IT'S THE BIG BREASTS!!!
Raiden was also kind of an examination in male fragility in a way?
You're not playing as the established super badass snake, instead you're just a mentally vulnerable snake wannabe (literally) who is literally following in his footsteps and is never quite in control of your own situation.
You're not playing as the established super badass snake, instead you're just a mentally vulnerable snake wannabe (literally) who is literally following in his footsteps and is never quite in control of your own situation.
Yeah, Raiden was a semi-focus-tested character in an attempt to appeal to women. I don't think the intention of him cartwheeling around nude was meant to be comedic but rather legit titillating for women in his eyes.
Indeed. And when his "message and themes" perpetually lead to women being naked (his initial plans for The Boss and the Beauty Corps) or near so (Paz and Quiet), one can't help but give the whole thing a side eye.
During summer holidays in the late-80s, early 90s we went camping and I was 11 years old. Camping had a supermarket with some arcades, Kids were free to play and watch
I remember those games very well
I seriously love the watercolors used in that game. Damn. I subscribed to their webpage to get updates.
So this might be somewhat offtopic, but there's this thread about the ridiculous censorship of actual historical statues in an educative mode of the latest Assassin's Creed (apparently PEGI mandated, so Ubisoft's hands are probably tied):
https://www.resetera.com/threads/ub...sins-creed-origins-discovery-tour-mode.24841/
I couldn't help but feel like Marge Simpson in that old episode where she campaigned to censor Itchy and Scratchy's violence, then the same group she led turned on censoring Michelangelo's David when it was brought to Springfield. There already seems to be people that can't see the difference between what we're discussing in this thread and pasting seashells over ancient statues, and I feel like I'm taking crazy pills...
I wonder if this illustrates a more profound issue with ratings that allow games with ridiculously sexualized women to be bought by younger audiences than games that show statues and paintings you can see in any museum. I understand that it's easier to have a quick and dirty rule that (female) nipples and genitals = out, but surely by now a more nuanced approach wouldn't be out of the question?
For fuck's sake. -_-
At this point I'm just going to to assume that expecting any kind of growth or realization regarding this topic of any Japanese developer is going to result in disappointment.
https://www.resetera.com/threads/ub...sins-creed-origins-discovery-tour-mode.24841/
I couldn't help but feel like Marge Simpson in that old episode where she campaigned to censor Itchy and Scratchy's violence, then the same group she led turned on censoring Michelangelo's David when it was brought to Springfield. There already seems to be people that can't see the difference between what we're discussing in this thread and pasting seashells over ancient statues, and I feel like I'm taking crazy pills...
I wonder if this illustrates a more profound issue with ratings that allow games with ridiculously sexualized women to be bought by younger audiences than games that show statues and paintings you can see in any museum. I understand that it's easier to have a quick and dirty rule that (female) nipples and genitals = out, but surely by now a more nuanced approach wouldn't be out of the question?
For fuck's sake. -_-
At this point I'm just going to to assume that expecting any kind of growth or realization regarding this topic of any Japanese developer is going to result in disappointment.
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Yep. Look at the threads regarding the SNK Heroines developer interviews. Or this latest gem: https://www.resetera.com/threads/persona-5-dancing-did-we-really-need-these-costumes.24897/
And sort of related, have you seen what the latest season of anime has:
And that's not even the worst thing.
You know, this isn't about sexualization. The longer I've looked at this problem, and the way it gets twisted by people who can't see it, the more I'm certain that just talking about it in terms of sexual portrayals of woman, or male gaze or any of that doesn't actually get to the heart of the problem, and makes it too easy for others to willfully misrepresent, or innocently misunderstand.
Fundamentally, this is about respect. Disrespect is at the core of sexism and misogyny. A selfish sort of disrespect and dismissal of any sort of empathy is at the core of these sorts of female portrayals. We don't complain about this shit because we're prudes, but because we want some goddamned respect.
Fundamentally, this is about respect. Disrespect is at the core of sexism and misogyny. A selfish sort of disrespect and dismissal of any sort of empathy is at the core of these sorts of female portrayals. We don't complain about this shit because we're prudes, but because we want some goddamned respect.
I have critical "What the Fuck?" overload from this. I may be imploding slowly into a singularity. Traped forever in quantum state of confusion, frustration, anger, and all manner of emotions that break the laws of order in my existence.Yep. Look at the threads regarding the SNK Heroines developer interviews. Or this latest gem: https://www.resetera.com/threads/persona-5-dancing-did-we-really-need-these-costumes.24897/
And sort of related, have you seen what the latest season of anime has:
And that's not even the worst thing.
User Banned (1 month) Repeatedly entering the 'Why Women Criticize etc.' thread to make bad faith arguments and be dismissive of the issues despite a previous warning and ban for the same behaviour. Ban extended after review.
The few snippets of zero two's behavior I've seen are quite ludicrous.Yep. Look at the threads regarding the SNK Heroines developer interviews. Or this latest gem: https://www.resetera.com/threads/persona-5-dancing-did-we-really-need-these-costumes.24897/
And sort of related, have you seen what the latest season of anime has:
And that's not even the worst thing.
The thing is gender /= biological sex. And there are people who don't subscribe to either gender. Unless you're doing something like deepfakes, or mimicking the face of some real person, it is fiction don't think nonexistent character representation has anything to do with respect, it only deals with representation of biological sex which is distinct from gender, women /= biological female bodies.
The same issues could be brought against future sex bots, once they pass the uncanny valley. But again, I do not think objects with female bodies in and of themselves are disrespecting anyone. If you see the statue of David, in what way does that disrespect men? I don't think it does. I think this idea is an attempt at trying to use the "misappropriation" idea again, to misuse it, that is to say you can't portray a certain race, a certain sex, a certain class, a certain group, a certain political group, a certain religion without permission.
But in fiction, you don't need to ask neo-nazis or kkk or surviving nazis how to portray them. In satire you don't need to ask a political party if they'd like to be made fun off. Irrespective of the group, freedom of expression allows you to represent any group any class. Of course if you do tasteless things, you will offend, you will provoke, and you will have to deal with the result of that.
Yep, this is not going to happen. People put it in the otaku but it's much bigger than this. It's something that it's normalized in Japan for decades not only in entertainment industry but out of it too. For it to change, the people itself need to revaluate the culture and industry like Teenage Gravure Idol, Teenage Idols and a bunch of things that are indeed normal for most of the japanese population and because of it, they're influenced in those aspects. Japan is also a conservative country in different aspects for the most part so that also don't help this situation.
So yeah, I'm always a bit cynical but I don't see changes because of those motives presented. If UN couldn't do anything about, I don't believe anyone besides Japan Government with it's population to change. And this is something that they need to realize by themselves and make changes with it, which will happen for decades or even centuries if they somehow propose such thing.
... I've collapsed into the 4th dimension...
Transgenderism and appropriation are now the angles you're using. Where do you get these arguments? It's like alt right tactics trying to use leftist logic against themselves.
Anyway, you already have a dubious argument with the trans angle, but you also have the problem that characters in games refer to themselves and/or are refered to by other characters as a certain gender. They do often have a gender identity as well as apparent biological traits. One also doesn't need permission to portray anything. That's not how the issue of appropriation works, and it's a lot more complex than that.
Yep. Look at the threads regarding the SNK Heroines developer interviews. Or this latest gem: https://www.resetera.com/threads/persona-5-dancing-did-we-really-need-these-costumes.24897/
And sort of related, have you seen what the latest season of anime has:
And that's not even the worst thing.
Mecha genre is not the best in this. There what matters most is mecha robot porn
What would be the appropriate back story of a woman with big boobs? That she's been drinking a gallon of milk daily since child?
Modern anime is just the never-ending sigh... and then occasionally you get a show like Hakumei to Mikochi and you just get weirded out that these two things can exist at the same time...
but then you also realize that Franxx is ranked higher than any good show on ANN... and the long sigh begins anew.
Well they got the porn part right.
...........................................................................I'm saying women in real life are disrespected which leaves people feeling free to do whatever bullshit they want in media as far as representing women are concerned. The disrespect is reflected in the fictional portrayals.
And sort of related, have you seen what the latest season of anime has:
And that's not even the worst thing.
Was looking for this. This shit is too stupid. I especially love those anime analysts saying how this anime is actually feminism and how this design is supposed to have some deep meanings. God damn fan service need to have a limit.
The inovation for arguments from people holding on dearly to their cartoon titties is boundless apparently. I mean we're on page 131 and I'm in awe at some revalations on this page. lol
Funnily enough, the most popular anime this season are Laid-Back Camp and A Place Further Than The Universe. Two shows that primarily focus on female protagonists without absurd fan service. I definitely believe there's a niche for fan service shows, but DitF is not meant to be a niche show. With the kind of team behind it, it should be a big show that aims for broad appeal. Ridiculous fan service is not the way to do it.
You can disagree with it's existance but the fan service is actually part of the story and plot. Also, it's a show pitched by Nishigori and produced by Aniplex/A-1 Pictures and other Procution Comitte members. He worked in Gurren Lagan and Evangelion and he's the director/storyboarder, just like most of it's staff is also made by ex-gainax members. So it's more of these same things that influenced his works and he wanted to do more (which is why Trigger is there with Imaishi and his staff and why the Idolmaster Cinderella girls staff that was made by ex-gainax is also there)
And no, Darling in the franxx is way more popular than those two if we're talking about reception and engagement in the west. By Japan, we'll have to wait for the products made by the Committee which will sustain the anime. Too soon for that tho.
Even looking just at Crunchyroll official slide, it's in there being one of the most popular.
Now, let's not act like it wasn't always like that. Such manga always existed along others (the first ecchi began in the 70s), just like novels and anime (including Gainax anime such as Gunbuster which popularized the boobs physics). It's been always there, the difference that now we look to all the quantity all together with the internet and you can see the different offering.
At the same time that it's obvious that such thing will happen. Different manga and light novel are adapted in anime in seasons with different content, stories and genres, that's why this always happened since those are different companies, production committees and studios doing these animes.
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You can disagree with it's existance but the fan service is actually part of the story and plot. Also, it's a show pitched by Nishigori and produced by Aniplex/A-1 Pictures and other Procution Comitte members. He worked in Gurren Lagan and Evangelion and he's the director/storyboarder, just like most of it's staff is also made by ex-gainax members. So it's more of these same things that influenced his works and he wanted to do more (which is why Trigger is there with Imaishi and his staff and why the Idolmaster Cinderella girls staff that was made by ex-gainax is also there)
And no, Darling in the franxx is way more popular than those two if we're talking about reception and engagement in the west. By Japan, we'll have to wait for the products made by the Committee which will sustain the anime. Too soon for that tho.
Even looking just at Crunchyroll official slide, it's in there being one of the most popular.
Now, let's not act like it wasn't always like that. Such manga always existed along others (the first ecchi began in the 70s), just like novels and anime (including Gainax anime such as Gunbuster which popularized the boobs physics). It's been always there, the difference that now we look to all the quantity all together with the internet and you can see the different offering.
At the same time that it's obvious that such thing will happen. Different manga and light novel are adapted in anime in seasons with different content, stories and genres, that's why this always happened since those are different companies, production committees and studios doing these animes.
Wait...stop...why is Overlord II so popular? I saw the first season and it wasn't anything to right home about...is it more of the same or is there a new element I'm missing? Are the actually doing some of the crazy shit in the LN series now?
Maybe people like it because there is a cool skeleton in it? Because I like it and that's literally all I know about it based on that chart.
Remember that this only counts new shows for the season so no One Piece, Boruto, DBS and such things, only anime that had it's debut this season be it sequel or new one.
And yeah, never watched it but it's one of the most talked and popular anime this season. I don't know why tho hahahaha
I'm not talking about the west though. Japanese anime creators ain't gonna consult with westerners on how to make anime (thank God, don't get me start on Americans' taste in anime). I'm pretty sure in Japan the DVD and Blu-ray sales (pre-orders to be precise) of the two I mentioned are ahead of DitF. On 2ch they receive much higher ratings then DitF. Also, tell me exactly how changing the position they drive the robot would affect the story/plot?
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Let's also not pretend like that shit hasn't gotten way worse since the 70s. Just because it was "always there" doesn't really excuse the scale and absurdity of it today.
Like...the biggest problem with the LN series is the fact that there are literally no stakes. Ok, story of Overlord is that one guy who loves this MMOROPG decides to stay around on the last day the MMORPG is open. He is part of a guild that played an evil faction and created a player made dungeon that no one could defeat. He's currently the only guy staying till the very end and when he does, he and his entire dungeon is tranported to another fantasy realm that follows the same rules as the MMORPG. So now adventurer parties from all over try and take over the dungeon...sounds like and interesting set up but here's the problem...it's too lopsided in the villain's direction. As in, the highest level hero in this world is around level 20...the lowest enemies in said dungeon are in the 50s and it gets exponentially higher from there. There is litterally no chance for any hero to succeed so every episode was just a boring victory of heroes who could never get passed the first floor of a 9 floor dungeon. So...yeah, why is this popular again?
Because lesbian "porn" has been co-opted by men in media for years now that they think it serves them.
people like power fantasies, basically if it wasnt an mmo where one guy got pulled in i'd probably like the villain being the main character a bit more since we dont get that often enough in anime. if nothing else first season had a good intro and this second season has a catchy one. But i'm trash who likes pop team epic.
also surprised that the step-sister lesbian anime is catching on in some states.... i hate this growing trend of incest(or themes like it) in anime.
Just saying but you don't measure the success of an anime based only in DVD and Blu-ray for most of the cases. You have to look for the Committee of the anime, see the position and what the company in there offers so let's look at the three anime mentioned. This is a list with all the production committee for anime in this season and past ones with more than 10 minutes of duration. There's an list for 2017 and 2018 in the bottom there.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...8ajDu9CnHaTrhsRsjNdiRfur0/edit#gid=1547867427
Darling in the Franxx:
Aniplex
ABC Animation
Lucient Pictures
Tokyo MX
BS11
NBN
Movic
A Place Further than the universe:
Media Factory
Madhouse
Crunchyroll/Sumimoto
docomo anime store
AT-X
Kadokawa Media House
Movic
NewGin
Sony Music Communications
Yuru Camp:
FuRyu
Crunchyroll/Sumimoto
AT-X
BS11
MAGES
81 Produce
Sony Music Communications
Those are the Production Committee of those series. The first ones are the ones who invested more money in the anime. At the same time, it's where you want to invest your money and the one who have the money to give it a sequel so in these cases for example: Aniplex (DVD, BD, Music), Media Factory (Manga, LN) and Crunchyroll (Paying for the subscription will leave more fund for future animes and exclusive rights). So what I'm saying is that, depending on the anime, how it'll actually make a success will depend by how the Production Committee is formed and these first ones are the ones that will make possible a sequel. So just looking for DVD and BD isn't really the good way without knowing how it'll be the monetization.
Also, just a curiosity to show the difference in tone. Yuru Camp is a anime based in the manga of the same name published by Houbunsha and serialized in the Seinen Manga Time Kirara Forward (part of the Kirara family which have different CGDCT like K-On and New Game) and is the same magazine of Gakkougurashi, which is hilarious.
Edit: I forgot to respond you about Darling in the Franxx in it's plot and fanservice. The entire concept of the mecha is created by the connection of the two users which is an analogy for sex with the position that they got and the mecha is created by that doctor, which makes sense for why such thing is made in that way and how the mecha looks. At the same time, these things seem to work based in libido and hormones of their age, and we can see this happening to the characters too. The show is plenty sexual in itself and what it's trying to show us so far is related to all of those things: Sex, libido, hormones, coming of age, passion and such things so that's why I see how all of those things are related to the plot itself and how I interpreted it with how the show got so far.
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