The only justification I can see for banning a game that people claim toes the line but doesn't definitively cross it (which I think we can all agree on, if Senran Kagura did clearly cross a line it'd be banned already), is because the members it attracts to this forum and the greater impact those people have on the rest of the site is overall a negative one.
So let's get some hard examples of the kind of stuff the makes up these games, shall we?
Obviously these two clips aren't "the game" in that they're side activities or whatever, but I don't think that matters. If you play these games as a means of sexual stimulation and can admit as much, while also admitting they're problematic for a plethora of reasons... congratulations. Anyone who watches and enjoys porn is more or less in the same boat.
However, I take issue with people who can play a game like this, engage in activities like the above clips and even the main games themselves and not come away with some admission that these games are pretty gross. These girls are put in positions of weakness with red cheeks and tears in their eyes while their clothes get removed or blown/shot off. There are mini-games where you can grope them, lift up their skirts, shoot water at them, slap their genitals while they shake you off and say things like "Hey, your eyes are scary". I think anyone who engages with that sort of thing and doesn't understand how potentially harmful it is and then gets defensive or dismissive when people take issue with it, are not people that should be welcome in this forum. This is all of course ignoring for a moment the issue of the age of these characters, which I don't know enough about to feel comfortable making any definitive statement on. The sort of stuff in the above clips is already gross with the assumption the girls are supposed to be over 18, it only gets worse if they're younger.
I would appreciate some candid responses from the people who are so defensive of these games. Why do you enjoy being pandered to in such a gratuitous, over-the-top manner? Is it the simple interactivity and the illusion of intimacy that the medium of video games is able to provide when compared to... say... porn? What do you get from discussing this kind of game with other people? Finally, and perhaps most importantly, why do you feel the need to defend it when it is so clearly ludicrous and harmful in SO many ways?
Replying to this post because you've asked for candid responses. Now - I don't like Senran Kagura and know nothing of it beyond those two videos you posted. But I like DoAX3 and am willing to defend that, so I reckon I'm close enough to be able to give a relevant response.
But having watched those videos, I don't agree that they're pretty gross. I don't see what makes them pretty gross. You're interactively harassing or assaulting a virtual character. That's it. You, the player, is behaving like an asshole and a pervert to a young woman. It's not for me, but you describe it as 'potentially harmful' and I just can't see it. Potentially harmful to who? Pixels? Fictional characters? Sure. Real people ...how?
Do you mean to imply that there could be someone out there who interacts with this and thinks to himself "Ah, I see. So this is the way to treat women. I was doing it incorrectly all along. From now on when I see a bikini-clad maiden I shall proceed to give her bosoms friendly pokes and slaps. If she recoils with tears in her eyes I will know I have done it correctly." Because that doesn't happen. Stuff like this exists
because you can't treat people like this in real life,
because it would be gross in real life. It the same reason all kinds of forbidden behaviour appears in video games, most of it violent, but some of it, like this, sexual. And like video game violence, I don't believe that it affects anyone who isn't already predisposed to that kind of behaviour, and I believe only very realistic content (real both emotionally and visually) can have such an effect. Slapping around some poorly-rendered cartoon character in a blatantly silly atmosphere is not anywhere near the level of realism that would cause anyone to get confused.
On the other hand, I can't see how this is harmful in the overall context of video games either, because this is a niche game for a tiny audience that is aimed squarely at heterosexual male otakus. There aren't any women feeling excluded by this game having sexualisation - sexualisation is the raison d'etre of the game. So from that point of view no harm is being done either. This isn't a 'Cindy in FFXV' situation here.
I suppose that's a defense of the game. Apparently you believe this opinion means I shouldn't be welcome in the forum? I think that goes too far, but each to his own, I know you mean well. To be clear, I'm certainly not angry, just confused at the level of your opprobrium to something I consider totally harmless.
As for the second part of the question, the 'Why do you enjoy being pandered to in such a gratuitous, over-the-top manner', well, you've nailed it. It's the interactivity. For me, I'm an amateur photographer. I love taking pictures of stuff. Getting the right lens, the right aperture, setting up the light or being in the right place at the right time. I've done all kinds of photography - landscape, macro, safari, architectural and urban exploration - but one kind I don't get to do that I've always wanted to is taking pictures of half-naked beautiful women - because I don't have access to beautiful women who'd get naked and just pose all day. Guess what, no normal guy does! DoAX3 lets me live out this thing I can't do in real life, and I love it for it. You can't pan the camera around a model and find the perfect angle in porn. And that last sentence is basically 100% of the appeal, if I'm being as candid as you want me to be. And to be extra candid, I don't actually know anyone with the physical attributes of a Momiji from DoA. (They might actually be impossible.) Put those things together and I can spend an hour just setting up scenes, taking pictures, and appreciating the beauty of the subject. Some do the same with landscapes in Horizon or the cars in GT Sport. For me, I prefer female models. It's just purely an enjoyment of physical beauty thing.
So if you want to know where the enjoyment comes from, that's it for me. I get that almost everyone else in the thread isn't going to think that's enjoyable, but it should be obvious how to some people it is. I don't get anything out of discussing it with other people other than sharing good images, so I don't really discuss it. And I disagree, as I've stated before, that it's ludicrous or harmful. And that's an important point. People don't defend these games
despite them being 'so clearly ludicrous and harmful' they defend them because they
disagree that they're harmful.
(I just want to say that all of this is, as you said, assuming the characters are 18. Marie Rose in DoA shouldn't be allowed, imo. It's actually fucking
crazy that there wasn't more fuss over her being in DoAX3.)
