• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
  • We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.
Status
Not open for further replies.

esserius

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,288
I can see where you are coming from, but its pretty hard to make a cartoon character look average (espically if they are in 2D where you dont use a large amount of lines), unless the artstyle is purposefully ugly (Bobs Burgers, most Seth McFarlane shows).
I'm not saying they need to look average - but some visual definition besides "conventionally attractive" would be nice! I find the designs creepy because they always fit this mold that most anime characters also fit (replace the eyes and hair and voila! new character).
 

Hirok2099

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
1,399
this is the "she's actually a 1000 year old dragon" argument all over again. no one cares if they're actually totally 100% legal. they look underaged. finding underage-looking characters sexually attractive is a huge fucking problem in "nerdy" (mostly anime/video game) circles.
Wait, someone liking a design more than other does not mean they are attracted to said design.
 

Deleted member 7130

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,685
Having Disney-like cartoon proportions as an art style is fine, but when you translate that to a 'realistic' setting you get a truly odd 'uncanny valley' effect like the (deliberate) effect in the upcoming Battle Angel Alita film.
xVgnjS.jpeg

Either you'd have to change Horizon's art style to cartoony, or that concept art would change again in a realistic setting I think.
Yeah, I'm not a fan of that look. Moreover, it makes little sense on the surface why presumably human designers would create a "battle" robot with such eyes, outside of "let's cuttify her". It's basically this:

Td1WF3h.png
 

Dary

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,416
The English Wilderness
this is the "she's actually a 1000 year old dragon" argument all over again. no one cares if they're actually totally 100% legal. they look underaged. finding underage-looking characters sexually attractive is a huge fucking problem in "nerdy" (mostly anime/video game) circles.

It gets even worse when they take that into the real world, and you have thirtysomething blokes eternally pursuing eighteen year old girls (or women "fortunate enough" to look younger than they are). People can say they don't take their fantasy standards into reality, but I've seen more than enough examples to suggest otherwise...
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,784
There are many kinds of high fantasy (and other design aesthetics), and only one of them, popularized by the likes of Frazetta, have women wearing bikinis everywhere.

That said, my comment isn't about camera angles, it's about characters, and in any given 3rd person game, or first-person game, or any game, you do not spend a lot of time looking at a character's face. It is typically an extremely small part of the whole experience (again, visual novels aside).

I know what my own tastes are when it comes to aesthetics, and faces are not the only factor there. I've dropped many games because I flat out hated looking at the back of the player character. There are very rare situations where I stuck it out because I liked the gameplay a lot like with the God of War series, but I could count those on one hand.
 

HypedBeast

Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,058
this is the "she's actually a 1000 year old dragon" argument all over again. no one cares if they're actually totally 100% legal. they look underaged. finding underage-looking characters sexually attractive is a huge fucking problem in "nerdy" (mostly anime/video game) circles.
That is bullshit and just shows your ignorance on illustration and art.

Artist use certain proportions because they tend to be really appealing, Tracy Butler explains this well kind in one of her art tutorials.
nclGIaq.jpg
 

psychowave

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,655
Wait, someone liking a design more than other does not mean they are attracted to said design.

Right, but I'm talking about people who claim to prefer younger looking designs because they find them more attractive than characters that actually look like adults.
It gets even worse when they take that into the real world, and you have thirtysomething blokes eternally pursuing eighteen year old girls (or women "fortunate enough" to look younger than they are). People can say they don't take their fantasy standards into reality, but I've seen more than enough examples to suggest otherwise...

I firmly believe that the whole "it's just fiction!! it's not hurting anyone!!!" excuse is bullshit.

That is bullshit and just shows your ignorance on illustration and art.

Artist use certain proportions because they tend to be really appealing, Tracy Butler explains this well kind in one of her art tutorials.
nclGIaq.jpg

dude, it says "baby-like facial proportions" right there. I mean, c'mon lmao
 

Weltall Zero

Game Developer
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
19,343
Madrid
There are many kinds of high fantasy (and other design aesthetics), and only one of them, popularized by the likes of Frazetta, have women wearing bikinis everywhere.

That said, my comment isn't about camera angles, it's about characters, and in any given 3rd person game, or first-person game, or any game, you do not spend a lot of time looking at a character's face. It is typically an extremely small part of the whole experience (again, visual novels aside).

All the same, it's not up to you to decide it's "silly" for people to pass on games because they don't like its aesthetics. Hell, it's the very argument we're making in this thread, just mirrored.

I for one care less about characters than the world itself. Put me in a "realistic", pissfilter or grayfilter game and I'm very likely to nope the hell out.

dude, it says "baby-like facial proportions" right there. I mean, c'mon lmao

Haha, yup. And even without that explicit statement, anyone that looks at that design sheet and doesn't come away with "make every character look like a little kid" is seriously deluding themselves.
 

rras1994

Member
Nov 4, 2017
5,743
That is bullshit and just shows your ignorance on illustration and art.

Artist use certain proportions because they tend to be really appealing, Tracy Butler explains this well kind in one of her art tutorials.
nclGIaq.jpg
Your proof on her "ignorance" uses the words "baby like facial proportions" - why is the only way to make attractive cartoon female characters, it to make them look like a child i.e "baby like"? That's creepy.
 

Hirok2099

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
1,399
Agreed. I don't understand why they decided to go with the unattractive version of Aloy for the final design. Maybe if they stuck with this concept art, it would have made playing the game a lot more bearable.

Their reasoning for not going with this concept really makes no sense to me. Her face in the concept art looks a lot more believable than the potato face we got.

Yes, I'm still salty we didn't get this version of her.

Edit: missing word
There are plenty of reasons not to go with that concept, for one it looks too similar to other Female leads.
 

HypedBeast

Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,058
dude, it says "baby-like facial proportions" right there. I mean, c'mon lmao
Youre missing the point. What you are suppose to take away from that is that certain proportions tend to be appealing, Tracy juat uses the word baby like, but it can attributed to a wide range of characters, also larger eyes tend to be more expressive.

Your argument that this is done to fethisize little girls really juat made me shake my head, like why speak on shit you dont know about and make yourself look like a fool.
 

Dary

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,416
The English Wilderness
Humans, on average, are around 6-8 "heads" tall. You start enlargening their eyes, however, and it starts to look weird unless you adjust the rest of their proportions to compensate. Inevitably, this makes them look even more childish...
 

weemadarthur

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,606
Also could be that bigger eyes mean more expressive eyes and thus they communicate emotions better. I mean if this is still about aloy it makes no sense sure. I'm just saying that appeal and sex appeal can be different things.
If that was the true purpose, it would happen equally with male characters. Yet it doesn't.
 

Dary

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,416
The English Wilderness
Youre missing the point. What you are suppose to take away from that is that certain proportions tend to be appealing, Tracy juat uses the word baby like, but it can attributed to a wide range of characters, also larger eyes tend to be more expressive.

Your argument that this is done to fethisize little girls really juat made me shake my head, like why speak on shit you dont know about and make yourself look like a fool.

You should be asking yourself why those proportions are considered "appealing" in the first place...
 

esserius

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,288
I know what my own tastes are when it comes to aesthetics, and faces are not the only factor there. I've dropped many games because I flat out hated looking at the back of the player character. There are very rare situations where I stuck it out because I liked the gameplay a lot like with the God of War series, but I could count those on one hand.
I find this very strange. Like yeah, really strange.
All the same, it's not up to you to decide it's "silly" for people to pass on games because they don't like its aesthetics. Hell, it's the very argument we're making in this thread, just mirrored.

I for one care less about characters than the world itself. Put me in a "realistic", pissfilter or grayfilter game and I'm very likely to nope the hell out.
See, I'm the kind of person who loves games like LSD and Proteus. So aesthetics matter a lot to me, but mostly in that they're unconventional or interesting in some way that's actually different and not just another of the same genre I played when I was a teenager. I'm tired of sequels and the same designs over and over and over and over... it has been decades of the same boring design, in so many ways. It's why games like VA-11 HALL-A and Papers, Please actually excite me, while I find games people claim as a revelation, like Undertale, just make me roll my eyes (or even Dark Souls, if you played King's Field or Shadow Tower Abyss).
 

psychowave

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,655
Youre missing the point. What you are suppose to take away from that is that certain proportions tend to be appealing, Tracy juat uses the word baby like, but it can attributed to a wide range of characters.

Your argument that this is done to fethisize little girls really juat made me shake my head, like why speak on shit you dont know about and make yourself look like a fool.

She doesn't say "appealing" as in sexually attractive, she says cute specifically, because those features (big eyes, round face, small nose) are found in babies, and drawing a character with those features tricks your brain into thinking it's a baby, which in turn makes you think the character is "cute", which is an evolutionary trait that exists to make us want to protect babies and improve their chances of survival (since babies are fuckin useless on their own). You're not supposed to find those characters sexually attractive, you're supposed to find them adorable and want to protect them.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22267884

also chill maybe
 

empty feat

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,947
Yorkshire, UK
The large eyes to better express is bs anyway, what's more expressive than the human face? You lose so much subtle expression simplifying your characters to cartoons.

No one is saying the intention of these artists was to fetishise young girls, but along with a bunch of other influences of similar ilk this is where we have ended up.
 

Ferrs

Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
18,829
That thread holy shit. I mean, I'm cool with people speaking about what aroused them in gaming, sounds like a fun enough thread... but goddamn people have no chill posting gifs and stuff lol There's going to be hentai posted in any minute now at this rate.
 

Kinsei

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
20,544
That thread holy shit. I mean, I'm cool with people speaking about what aroused them in gaming, sounds like a fun enough thread... but goddamn people have no chill posting gifs and stuff lol There's going to be hentai posted in any minute now at this rate.
There already was. It was (very badly) censored though so I guess it was just barely considered SFW.
 

RPGamer

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,435
It gets even worse when they take that into the real world, and you have thirtysomething blokes eternally pursuing eighteen year old girls (or women "fortunate enough" to look younger than they are). People can say they don't take their fantasy standards into reality, but I've seen more than enough examples to suggest otherwise...

I don't think that has much to do with videogames, not more than with any other media and probably nature and society itself. Also people have different tastes, always had. I guess it's also more common these days women have younger partners where years ago it was mostly the old rich guy with a young chick meme.

For me playing a lot of japanese JRPGs etc. has not done much to the "selection" of my partners. I meet someone, i like someone, i had girlfriends of different ages, some were older than me, some younger, some more beautiful, some less. Personally i don't see a problem with beautiful videogame characters as long as people know it's fantasy, and i'm totally aware that i myself could not keep up with many male videogame heroes either way. Don't want to derail this thread, but i think the feeling of male videogamers could be similiar sometimes when they see their "heroes" with perfect figures, manly, fearless, cool, killing a whole army allone, running miles and don't even sweat, getting all those girls ;) Even Link in BotW has a small sixpack and is athletic. Can be that some men escape reality and think they are like those heroes? I don't, i like fantasy, but that doesn't mean i live in a fantasy world.
 

Hirok2099

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
1,399
Just did a check: Aladdin is six heads tall, Jasmine...only five. That's, like, pre-teen proportions.
So.... are we asuming that petite's do not exist? or that overall disney characters have bigger heads? Also what about Pocahontas, Jane, Belle?

Yes there are perverts on the world, Yes there are people who are turned on by youth that does not mean that you have to always assume the worst.
 

Valkyr1983

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,523
NH, United States
That thread holy shit. I mean, I'm cool with people speaking about what aroused them in gaming, sounds like a fun enough thread... but goddamn people have no chill posting gifs and stuff lol There's going to be hentai posted in any minute now at this rate.

Yeah turns out some people go further than others...

Now I don't feel ashamed for posting some pics of Nintendo games lol
 

psychowave

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,655
So.... are we asuming that petite's do not exist? or that overall disney characters have bigger heads? Also what about Pocahontas, Jane, Belle?

Yes there are perverts on the world, Yes there are people who are turned on by youth that does not mean that you have to always assume the worst.

I dunno about anyone else, but in my case, I'm not assuming. I've seen enough people drawing and writing porn of explicitly underaged characters to have lost all faith in the anime fandom, lmao.
 

HypedBeast

Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,058
She doesn't say "appealing" as in sexually attractive, she says cute specifically, because those features (big eyes, round face, small nose) are found in babies, and drawing a character with those features tricks your brain into thinking it's a baby, which in turn makes you think the character is "cute", which is an evolutionary trait that exists to make us want to protect babies and improve their chances of survival (since babies are fuckin useless on their own). You're not supposed to find those characters sexually attractive, you're supposed to find them adorable and want to protect them.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22267884

also chill maybe
That still applies for sexually. Big eyes are seen as more attractive. Now you can disagree with that beauty norm, but to say that it is primarily because of fetishizing little girls, I want to see sources.
 

Viera

Banned
Dec 13, 2017
255
What! Loish is a god tier artist, and since when is being compared to Disney a bad thing? Most artist wish they were compared to Disney.

The_Art_of_Loish_A_Look_Behind_the_Scenes_01-680x1042.jpg

loish-illustration-9.png

Besides that though, I dont think that Aloy concept art would fit without changing the look of the other characters.

If Loish is "god tier" to you please. Go to the Met or something at least once in your life
 

4Tran

Member
Nov 4, 2017
1,531
Humans, on average, are around 6-8 "heads" tall. You start enlargening their eyes, however, and it starts to look weird unless you adjust the rest of their proportions to compensate. Inevitably, this makes them look even more childish...
That's main thing that gets me about Bayonetta's design. She's some 11 heads tall, and while her regular costumes disguise how bizarre she looks somewhat, the Nintendo costumes make her look completely deformed.
 

psychowave

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,655
That still applies for sexually. Big eyes are seen as more attractive. Now you can disagree with that beauty norm, but to say that it is primarily because of fetishizing little girls, I want to see sources.

It's not just big eyes. It's the combination of big eyes, round face and small noses that are found in so many popular female characters that are also sexualized, plus the trend of sexualizing characters that are underage. Stop being obtuse.
 

Hirok2099

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
1,399
User warned: offensive and disingenuous comparison. Anime fandoms are not a protected class.
I dunno about anyone else, but in my case, I'm not assuming. I've seen enough people drawing and writing porn of explicitly underaged characters to have lost all faith in the anime fandom, lmao.
How does that make you difference form a sexist or racist?
Honestly ? I've seen enough Asians driving badly so I lost all faith in Asian's driving.
All I see is emotional females so I lost faith in the female sex.
Is that something I could say?
It's just never good to generalize.
 

Lotus

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
105,879
There's also a few posts in there about characters that are clearly children.

I just peeped in there. Someone pointed out to one of the posters that one of the characters (Nia from Xenoblade 2) posted is apparently 14. Said poster basically said "Oh shit, nvm then". Next post is immediately followed up with someone else posting fan art of said character in a bikini in a suggestive pose.
 

DragonKeeper

Member
Nov 14, 2017
1,588
I don't have any issues with large eyes styles. They are indeed very expressive. But they tend to get pushed to their most child like extremes on female characters who are supposed to be adults and when those eyes are combined with faces that taper to tiny chins the results get downright bug like. I like the way Elsa looks but I'd say they pushed those proportions to the most extreme I'd want to see them, and I'd be quite fine with the design pulled back a bit. Male faces may also have large eyes, but they also tend to have more..well, face to balance that out. Elsa's face, for example, would have its chin about where Aladdin's lower lip is. Male faces also tend to have other features that do a better job of expressing older ages. Female faces tend have tiny noses and tiny chins. All of these make them look younger, you can'd deny that. Finally, while large eyes are expressive, they don't need to be as large as they often get just for the sake of expressiveness. Plenty of much smaller eyed characters are just as expressive.
 

psychowave

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,655
How does that make you difference form a sexist or racist?
Honestly ? I've seen enough Asians driving badly so I lost all faith in Asian's driving.
All I see is emotional females so I lost faith in the female sex.
Is that something I could say?
It's just never good to generalize.

sorry for being an anime fandom racist
 

AnansiThePersona

Started a revolution but the mic was unplugged
Member
Oct 27, 2017
15,682
How does that make you difference form a sexist or racist?
Honestly ? I've seen enough Asians driving badly so I lost all faith in Asian's driving.
All I see is emotional females so I lost faith in the female sex.
Is that something I could say?
It's just never good to generalize.

I don't think generalizing anime for sexualizing underaged girls is the same as being racist or sexist......but you do you
 

CoLD FiRE

Banned
Nov 11, 2017
369
Wait a second, how is the Aloy concept art a child? That is just Loish artstyle, she usually draws with more Glen Keane/ Disney style proportions.
ef6f24767b15493bd7c4d343dd7d714d-db3xeox.png

Yup. I have no idea how someone can honestly look at that Aloy art and say she looks like a "child"! She looks no younger than 17 here. And if I recall correctly, potato face Aloy is supposed to be 18 in the game? So I'm not really sure how people can keep arguing that she looks like a child in this concept.
 

HypedBeast

Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,058
If Loish is "god tier" to you please. Go to the Met or something at least once in your life
Well I meant for Deviantart, though she overall a really great illustrator, but thank you for being condescending, that dosent make you look like an asshole at all.

It's not just big eyes. It's the combination of big eyes, round face and small noses that are found in so many popular female characters that are also sexualized, plus the trend of sexualizing characters that are underage. Stop being obtuse.
Those are not inherently for children, those can be found on young women of any age. Like are you seriously saying that big eyes, round faces, and a small nose are exclusive to young kids, really. Im not being obtuse, you just lack a compelling argument.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.