Why women criticise sexualised character designs (READ OP)

SweetieBelle · Dec 10, 2017

CannonFodder52 said:
Uhhhh

Playerunknown's Battlegrounds

Lmao that's some dedication to detail.

As for being on topic, I don't like too much many of the anime games, especially for Vita because all the effort goes into the sexualized designs and leaves three gameplay too simplistic and lazy.

As for a fighting game series like Soul Caliber, a character like Ivy works extremely well. Give some thought to her design and read up on her lore.

Don't be afraid or ashamed of sexuality.

Ferrs · Dec 10, 2017

This is fucking sad too:

https://twitter.com/gracebruxner/status/939745715894362112

Valkyr1983 · Dec 10, 2017

MaskedNdi said:
Yeah, I really don't think DoA is any worse other mainstream fighters these days. They all have skimpy costumes, ogling camera angles, and crazy jiggle physics. The Netherealm games are really the only fighters that have been toning that stuff down; everyone else has been cranking it up.

I got into DoA a long time ago and I know what I'm getting there. I just wish I didn't have to deal with this stuff in every other fighting game. I don't know why so many fighting game developers hate breast support.

Even Margot Robbie didn't like wearing the costume.

This is Sophitia in Soul Blade:

This is Sophitia in SoulCal 1:

This is Sophitia in SoulCal 6:

Wow she looks awesome in 6!

I mean her design has always been great, you just really cant make out the details like you can now, probably due to the limitations in tech

Valkyr1983 · Dec 10, 2017

Mewshuji said:
^Why are her boobs jiggling one at a time??? Was this something I overlooked with SCIV and V's jiggle physics?
Oh dear...

You mean the movie where she had two butts?

That's not a good argument for oversexualization my duderino. It's proof that maaayyybe sometimes animators/devs/etc. should let their brains control their minds, not their 'little buddies'.
I'm not. I like my cheesecake where appropriate but I'd rather more people be able to enjoy a series I love so dearly than less, thank you very much. Soul Calibur, no matter how much people will claim otherwise, is not a series that relies on cheesecake for its loyal following or its identity. And if toning down the tacky sex appeal will achieve getting more players interested, then that's what should be done.

Or have multiple alts for each character

Some of us enjoy the cheesecake even in games it doesn't fit, no reason that shouldn't be an option

CannonFodder52 · Dec 10, 2017

Ferrs said:
This is fucking sad too:

https://twitter.com/gracebruxner/status/939745715894362112

Yea that's pretty bad.

Is that par for the course with that game? I've never played it, though I had thought it was a game targeting a young audience.

Mib · Dec 10, 2017

Valkyr1983 said:
Or have multiple alts for each character

Some of us enjoy the cheesecake even in games it doesn't fit, no reason that shouldn't be an option

And some of us want to play games without cheesecake where it doesn't belong.

In terms of options: you have 99.9% of fighting games ever made; we have whatever makes up that remaining 0.1%. I'm assuming it has to exist, but I honestly can't think of one without any cheesecake.

Dary · Dec 10, 2017

Ferrs said:
This is fucking sad too:

https://twitter.com/gracebruxner/status/939745715894362112

Sometimes I think they do shit like this (and the PUBG thing on the previous page) deliberately, because they know it will irritate "the SJW", and thus bolster their popularity in ... less savoury circles.

Ferrs · Dec 10, 2017

CannonFodder52 said:
Yea that's pretty bad.

Is that par for the course with that game? I've never played it, though I had thought it was a game targeting a young audience.

I dunno. I always found the game interesting (love Minecraft) but never played it. Guess I'l stay that way.

Dary said:
Sometimes I think they do shit like this (and the PUBG thing on the previous page) deliberately, because they know it will irritate "the SJW", and thus bolster their popularity in ... less savoury circles.

Honestly, I agree.

Inkwell · Dec 10, 2017

That PUBG thing is just fucking embarrassing. I have to try stay out of the thread about it because I'll probably get myself banned. Some people in there are putting in the work, but the ignorance and stupid shit some people are saying is infuriating and depressing.

CannonFodder52 · Dec 10, 2017

Inkwell said:
That PUBG thing is just fucking embarrassing. I have to try stay out of the thread about it because I'll probably get myself banned. Some people in there are putting in the work, but the ignorance and stupid shit some people are saying is infuriating and depressing.

Some of the posts in there are very awful.

ugh

psychowave · Dec 10, 2017

Budi said:
Sorry that this question is about anime and not specifically about games, but just like in games would I be off base saying that male characters are allowed more distinctive and personalized looks than female characters? I mean facial features. So many female characters just look basically like the same doll with a different wig. Or is it just my untrained eye that can't spot the subtle differences.

No, you're definitely on to something here. Anime in general has a problem with "sameface", but it's particularly worse with female characters because they always look the same, whereas male characters are usually allowed at least some wiggle room.
That picture that was posted with the different anime art styles throughout the decades is a great example; if you take different female characters from different anime made by different studios they all look identical. There's very little creativity in the anime industry anymore. Everyone mostly just copies each other.

You can see this in Fire Emblem: Echoes, a game that I actually love, but that is really bad at this. All the female characters have the exact same facial structure, whereas the male characters are allowed a variety of face shapes and even skin colors. There was a really good tweet that showed this but I lost it :<

also lol @ the PUBG thing

ShyMel · Dec 10, 2017

Someone buy this women a pair of properly fitting underwear!

MaskedNdi · Dec 10, 2017

SweetieBelle said:
As for a fighting game series like Soul Caliber, a character like Ivy works extremely well. Give some thought to her design and read up on her lore.

Don't be afraid or ashamed of sexuality.

Ivy's design doesn't have anything to do with her sexuality. She's not actually a dominatrix; she's an alchemist and noble from 15th century England. She is celibate and has devoted her entire life to her quest.

There are a handful of fighting game characters that use weaponized sexuality (Mai Shiranui), are focused on looking hot (Tina Armstrong), or are actual succubi (Morrigan). For the most part, however, these costumes exist only to please players that like watching women fight in minimal clothing.

Ferrs said:
This is fucking sad too:

https://twitter.com/gracebruxner/status/939745715894362112

Yeesh. I've mostly ignored PUBG; it's really not my thing. I had no idea it was that kind of game.

Ferrs · Dec 10, 2017

MaskedNdi said:
Ivy's design doesn't have anything to do with her sexuality. She's not actually a dominatrix; she's an alchemist and noble from 15th century England. She is celibate and has devoted her entire life to her quest.

There are a handful of fighting game characters that use weaponized sexuality (Mai Shiranui), are focused on looking hot (Tina Armstrong), or are actual succubi (Morrigan). For the most part, however, these costumes exist only to please players that like watching women fight in minimal clothing.

Yeesh. I've mostly ignored PUBG; it's really not my thing. I had no idea it was that kind of game.

this thing is about Terraria though, a 2D Minecraft like game.

Xaszatm · Dec 10, 2017

Ferrs said:
This is fucking sad too:

https://twitter.com/gracebruxner/status/939745715894362112

Rimworld, another game I like, also has this problem. In the game, all women are bi and all men are straight. This might be just a problem but it turns out the developer did this because he thought that biologically, this was true.

Xaszatm · Dec 10, 2017

MaskedNdi said:
Ivy's design doesn't have anything to do with her sexuality. She's not actually a dominatrix; she's an alchemist and noble from 15th century England. She is celibate and has devoted her entire life to her quest.

There are a handful of fighting game characters that use weaponized sexuality (Mai Shiranui), are focused on looking hot (Tina Armstrong), or are actual succubi (Morrigan). For the most part, however, these costumes exist only to please players that like watching women fight in minimal clothing.

Yeesh. I've mostly ignored PUBG; it's really not my thing. I had no idea it was that kind of game.

That's the best part. Ivy Valentine is the video game's most famous asexual and aromantic character. And if I didn't just tell you that you'd have no idea. As someone who is both asexual and aromantic, it bugs the hell out of me that she is the most famous and yet the developers still dedicate so much time to sexualizing her up. It's almost comedic how unfitting her character and personality is with her design.

MaskedNdi · Dec 10, 2017

Ferrs said:
this thing is about Terraria though, a 2D Minecraft like game.

I must have quoted the wrong post by mistake. Apologies!

Persephone · Dec 10, 2017

*looks at PUBG cameltoe thread*
welp that's enough internet for one year

Xaszatm · Dec 10, 2017

Persephone said:
*looks at PUBG cameltoe thread*
welp that's enough internet for one year

Is it sad that I could predict the PUBG thread before it got locked down?

CannonFodder52 · Dec 10, 2017

Xaszatm said:
Rimworld, another game I like, also has this problem. In the game, all women are bi and all men are straight. This might be just a problem but it turns out the developer did this because he thought that biologically, this was true.

wait, what?

Dice · Dec 10, 2017

Ferrs said:
This is fucking sad too:

https://twitter.com/gracebruxner/status/939745715894362112

oh wtf c'mon.....

Senjy89 · Dec 10, 2017

Xaszatm said:
Is it sad that I could predict the PUBG thread before it got locked down?

Yeah, as soon as I saw that thread I knew where it was headed.

psychowave · Dec 10, 2017

I'm gonna start replying to every "[game] is locked to 30 fps :(" thread with "I told my boyfriend about this and he doesn't think it's a problem sooo"

Servbot24 · Dec 10, 2017

ShyMel said:
Someone buy this women a pair of properly fitting underwear!

Someone should get her a new spine as well, looks as though hers was surgically removed.

Opa-Pa · Dec 10, 2017

psychowave said:
I'm gonna start replying to every "[game] is locked to 30 fps :(" thread with "I told my boyfriend about this and he doesn't think it's a problem sooo"

It's strange how people make a big deal about low FPS in games full of murder and violence :/

Rogote · Dec 10, 2017

Servbot24 said:
Someone should get her a new spine as well, looks as though hers was surgically removed.

Yeah that's a weird looking model.

psychowave · Dec 10, 2017

Opa-Pa said:
It's strange how people make a big deal about low FPS in games full of murder and violence :/

Why is no one talking about lootboxes?????

Common Knowledge · Dec 10, 2017

psychowave said:
I'm gonna start replying to every "[game] is locked to 30 fps :(" thread with "I told my boyfriend about this and he doesn't think it's a problem sooo"

In all seriousness though, I don't know why only the guys opposing the discussion bother to make posts like that. I'm sure a lot of people here can make posts like, "well my girlfriend/wife is, in fact, offended by this addition to the game and think it's sexist" but you hardly ever, if at all, get posts like that cause, frankly, it's just pretty stupid.

Those posts are just a blatant attempt at shutting down the discussion, no doubt about it.

super-famicom · Dec 10, 2017

Man, that PUBG thread is depressing. I got the last post in before the lock, basically asking people to show empathy.

Pau · Dec 10, 2017

Common Knowledge said:
In all seriousness though, I don't know why only the guys opposing the discussion bother to make posts like that. I'm sure a lot of people here can make posts like, "well my girlfriend/wife is, in fact, offended by this addition to the game and think it's sexist" but you hardly ever, if at all, get posts like that cause, frankly, it's just pretty stupid.

Those posts are just a blatant attempt at shutting down the discussion, no doubt about it.

Particularly trying to silence the opinions of the women posting.

It also adds nothing to the discussion 'cause it's not like I can reply to the supposed partner and have a dialogue about it.

JustinP · Dec 10, 2017

People get so defensive and come up with any argument they can, no matter how nutty/delusional/disingenuous it might be. And all too often, they seem to have zero female friends in their lives.

Derpot · Dec 10, 2017

Xaszatm said:
Rimworld, another game I like, also has this problem. In the game, all women are bi and all men are straight. This might be just a problem but it turns out the developer did this because he thought that biologically, this was true.

Huh. Yeah, I heard about this kind of argument, "biologically, women are lesbians, it's scientifically proven" or something like that. That's kinda weird.
It seems that homosexuality between women is more accepted than homosexuality between men, in general.

caff!!! · Dec 10, 2017

Opa-Pa said:
It's strange how people make a big deal about low FPS in games full of murder and violence :/

I told my totally real life partner about this and they claim they can see at least 144hz, and into 3 different planes of existence

Persephone · Dec 10, 2017

Derpot said:
Huh. Yeah, I heard about this kind of argument, "biologically, women are lesbians, it's scientifically proven" or something like that. That's kinda weird.
It seems that homosexuality between women is more accepted than homosexuality between men, in general.

Mainly because straight dudes fetishise the shit out of wlw, but yeah........... It's homophobia of a different kind.

Xaszatm · Dec 10, 2017

CannonFodder52 said:
wait, what?

Oh, boy, this controversy was fun for me to read and now I get to share the WTF!?! with you people as well. Rimworld is a management game where you take care of a colony of people. It's actually a pretty fun game all things considered. But...

https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2016/11/02/rimworld-code-analysis/

Playing through the game, there were some unfortunate implications involving women and sexual advances. The article goes into detail, but to sum it up:

In summary:

Men are about eight times as likely as women to try and start a romance.

Pawns with disabilities will always be found less attractive.

Beautiful pawns are always considered vastly more attractive; ugly pawns, vastly less. Physical beauty is the only trait that governs attractiveness, aside from sexual orientation.

Straight men always find men unattractive. Gay men always find women unattractive. There are no bisexual men.

Women may find women attractive. Gay women always find men unattractive. There are only bisexual or gay women.

All men consider partners aged 20 to their own age most attractive. If they're under 20, they'll find pawns 20 or over most attractive, with no regard for pawns that are a similar age to them.

All women consider partners the same age and older most attractive. Partners slightly younger than themselves are very unattractive, and partners that are 10 years younger than them are always considered unattractive.

All men consider any pawn 15 years older than themselves to be unattractive.

There is no "old age" cutoff for women. No matter how much older a partner is, women have some chance of finding them attractive.

That isn't an observation. This was written into the code of the game. Now, some people tried to say that this was the developer making some mistakes as the game was in early alpha. But while the developer did say this was the case, he also said this:

"I've known some bi women," he writes, "and a large proportion of the nominally straight women I've known have discussed bi impulses or experiences they've had. In contrast, every bi man I've ever known has ultimately ended up identifying as gay. These patterns seem to apply even in very gay-friendly social contexts. Of course I'm sure bi/bi-curious men exist, but the research and what I've seen supports the conclusion that they're rarer than bi women. Conversely, gay women seem to be rarer than gay men."

Which just ticks me off.

LuckyChamCham · Dec 10, 2017

psychowave said:
I'm gonna start replying to every "[game] is locked to 30 fps :(" thread with "I told my boyfriend about this and he doesn't think it's a problem sooo"

Sorry, I didn't get to reply to your post before that thread got locked and I have no idea how to quote it now lol.. anyway about the whole wife thing, the original post I quoted said he didn't care about his wife's opinion, so I asked why not? Hell if I know what his intentions were but maybe he wanted to show another woman's perspective who wasn't offended by the topic at hand, anyway that's all I have to say about it, have a good day :p

Edit: this should've been a pm my bad.

Common Knowledge · Dec 10, 2017

Derpot said:
Huh. Yeah, I heard about this king of argument, "biologically, women are lesbians, it's scientifically proven" or something like that. That's kinda weird.
It seems that homosexuality between women is more accepted than homosexuality between men, in general.

It's just another form of objectification of women taken to another level. "Girls making out with each other are hot, so clearly every woman should be a lesbian to cater to my titillation!" They don't actually care about lesbian rights.

GenericForumName · Dec 10, 2017

When people criticize sexualised character designs, but at the same time say that no one wants to take our boobs away, what do they want?

Common Knowledge · Dec 10, 2017

GenericForumName said:
When people criticize sexualised character designs, but at the same time say that no one wants to take our boobs away, what do they want?

More female characters that aren't sexualized.

Fliesen · Dec 10, 2017

LuckyChamCham said:
Sorry, I didn't get to reply to your post before that thread got locked and I have no idea how to quote it now lol.. anyway about the whole wife thing, the original post I quoted said he didn't care about his wife's opinion, so I asked why not? Hell if I know what his intentions were but maybe he wanted to show another woman's perspective who wasn't offended by the topic at hand, anyway that's all I have to say about it, have a good day :p

Edit: this should've been a pm my bad.

The issue with this is that:

a) The user who pulls out the "my wife don't care" card might be an unrelatable narrator, both towards his wife, as well as towards us. He might exaggerate the "outrage" portrayed in the forums, and he might exaggerate the reaction his wife had. Like, she "can't stop laughing" ... yeah, sure.
but more importantly:
b) It's rather redundant information. Do you think someone who comes into a thread like that just to make a "lol resetera outrage culture, lol what a non issue" would be married to someone who is very much critical of such issues? So, duh - of course the wife of someone who finds people getting 'offended' utterly ridiculous would be married to a person who'd share a similar attitude.

GenericForumName said:
When people criticize sexualised character designs, but at the same time say that no one wants to take our boobs away, what do they want?

Sports bras instead of lingerie.

jjreamPop · Dec 10, 2017

GenericForumName said:
When people criticize sexualised character designs, but at the same time say that no one wants to take our boobs away, what do they want?

......

Women can have breasts and not be oversexualized and objectified.

Edit: Also? They're not your boobs.

Karppuuna · Dec 10, 2017

If the devs like to sexualised they characters, men or woman, they have every right to do so. If you don't like it, go play something else!

GenericForumName · Dec 10, 2017

MiddeSummer said:
......

Women can have breasts and not be oversexualized and objectified.

Edit: Also? They're not your boobs.

By "our boobs" I meant sexualized character designs.

Persephone · Dec 10, 2017

GenericForumName said:
When people criticize sexualised character designs, but at the same time say that no one wants to take our boobs away, what do they want?

"our boobs"

Valkyr1983 · Dec 10, 2017

MiddeSummer said:
......

Women can have breasts and not be oversexualized and objectified.

Edit: Also? They're not your boobs.

I agree with that

But I would argue that people might want oversexualized and objectified designs to stay too

What category would DOA, Senran kagura and street fighter fall into? I wouldn't want to see those games changed

GenericForumName · Dec 10, 2017

Persephone said:
"our boobs"

Let's not nitpick my writing, alright?

MiddeSummer said:
......

Women can have breasts and not be oversexualized and objectified.

Edit: Also? They're not your boobs.

That'd be taking away "our boobs"

CannonFodder52 · Dec 10, 2017

The "what about violence" response ticks me off the most, because I'd be down to talk about, or hear opinions on the amount of violence and the way it's portrayed/glorified in the media. But if I made a thread on that topic, it would get overrun with the exact same people from the former thread.

I think you could fit most of the defensive posts from that thread into:
-What about violence
-My wife says this is funny
-add more male nudity

Karppuuna said:
If the devs like to sexualised they characters, men or woman, they have every right to do so. If you don't like it, go play something else!

...

Dary · Dec 10, 2017

psychowave said:
That picture that was posted with the different anime art styles throughout the decades is a great example; if you take different female characters from different anime made by different studios they all look identical. There's very little creativity in the anime industry anymore. Everyone mostly just copies each other.

Kinda what I was getting at here (I think it got lost in the fighting game talk XD)

Dary said:
So I thought I'd compare the whole "two girls one guy" JRPG fad over the years...

...points for consistency I guess?

Opa-Pa said:
It's strange how people make a big deal about low FPS in games full of murder and violence :/

This is why I find the bulk of Internet geek/gaming communities so...uncomfortable. Such amazing priorities. And then they wonder why society looks down on them...

Persephone · Dec 10, 2017

I don't understand why some people have difficulty grasping this:

No one's saying DoA needs to be cancelled or that we want to cover up Ayane's boobs. We're saying that Quiet's design is pandering, nonsensical, immersion-breaking garbage, and that these kinds of designs are misogynistic as fuck.

Puruzi · Dec 10, 2017

MiddeSummer said:
......

Women can have breasts and not be oversexualized and objectified.

Edit: Also? They're not your boobs.

Persephone said:
"our boobs"

don't think the poster means our boobs as in the boobs belong to men.

When people criticize sexualized designs I frequently see THEM say "Nobody's trying to take away your boobs in games" or something along those lines.

Why women criticise sexualised character designs (READ OP)

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