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Why do some fans have such a hard time accepting that some just didn't like TLJ that much?

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Occam

Occam

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Oct 25, 2017
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User Warned : Pattern of low quality, inflammatory threads and commentary on the subject of Star Wars.
Could it be that to some people, Star Wars has basically become a religion, sacrosanct, any critical thinking forbidden?
Do these fans think it is their duty to defend Star Wars against heretics, and make them repent?
I got this idea when I saw this part of the Red Letter review:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=L9hwGZFPSmw&t=38m09s

It's a bit disconcerting.
Star Wars is a corporate product.
 
poptire

poptire

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Oct 25, 2017
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It's sort of like what happened with that Conan God of War video. Certain fans are too in the tank for the properties they love, so criticism against the movie feels like personal criticism against the fans.
 
Speevy

Speevy

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Oct 26, 2017
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I think this is a problem, but it also might be a rather narrow problem to the point where it seems like you're replying to another thread with a thread.

No disrespect.
 
Clix

Clix

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Oct 25, 2017
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Hmmm how's both ways. Many fans won't accept that many other fans enjoyed the PT as well (like me).

The way I see it is that there is enough Star Wars with the movies, books, conics, tv series, for everyone and everybody just needs to respect everybody else.
 

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That's just how fanbases are. If you don't like something they do, they'll talk themselves blue in the face trying to convince you that you're wrong.

It's pretty rare for something to split a fanbase like this but it's not unheard of.
 

Deleted member 2229

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Probably the same reason those same people can't go five minutes without talking about how much they don't like it. Its not that nobody underatands that you don't like it, its that nobody else actually cares.
 
Cyclonesweep

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I mean....no?
I have no issue with people not liking it.
I have an issue with people saying it was the worst movie ever, far worse than the prequels or all that nonsense.

Or the people who say "They didn't explain this part therefore the movie is awful" when it was explained in the movie.

Or the weird gatekeeping from Star Wars fans where unless you hate most Star Wars movies, you aren't a Star Wars fan.
 
BossAttack

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Oct 27, 2017
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I like the film a good bit, but I agree that it's fucking obnoxious that people that enjoy the film can't understand that a good amount of people do not like it. And, it's not because of racism, sexism, or fanboy wankery.

Cyclonesweep said:
I mean....no?
I have no issue with people not liking it.
I have an issue with people saying it was the worst movie ever, far worse than the prequels or all that nonsense.

Or the people who say "They didn't explain this part therefore the movie is awful" when it was explained in the movie.

Or the weird gatekeeping from Star Wars fans where unless you hate most Star Wars movies, you aren't a Star Wars fan.
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This too.
 
GMM

GMM

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Oct 27, 2017
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It's dumb fiction like most pieces of entertainment or religion, people like to defend something they shouldn't because it vindicates their oppinion over others resulting in a pissing competition with people who have other oppinions.
 
Luckett_X

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Oct 25, 2017
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We're living in a fairly unique age where personal internet politics and identification have bled so much into media property consumption that the mess that comes out of the other side is our fellow monkeys screaming "YOU DIDN'T LIKE IT BECAUSE YOU'RE A MISOGYNIST MONSTER" as they hurl their other fecal opinions at us.

See also: capekino.
 
Crossing Eden

Crossing Eden

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Oct 26, 2017
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A big problem is that people vastly exaggerate the amount of people who dislike the film compared to the praise, using arbitrary metrics that seem to only apply for the SW films specifically and nothing else, like user scores on metacritic and rotten tomatoes, and not say Cinemascore, which has been used in the film industry for more than 30 years. Or let's say the box office with some genuinely arguing that TLJ could've made more money than TFA despite the context of the Force Awaken's release and the history of sequel revenue vs. franchise debut revenue. We get a "Actually the last jedi wasn't good" thread or "SW thread that doesn't even need to mention TLJ without people flocking to tell everyone how they didn't like the last jedi." thread like at least once a week. So it appears that some fans have a huge issue with the critical, commercial, and general success of the TLJ.
 
SolidChamp

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Winny（๑•̀ㅂ•́）و said:
That's just how fanbases are. If you don't like something they do, they'll talk themselves blue in the face trying to convince you that you're wrong.

It's pretty rare for something to split a fanbase like this but it's not unheard of.
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Alan Cerny and Scott Weinberg's Twitter feeds were hilarious to read shortly after TLJ was released for precisely this reason.

The dudes simply could not leave well enough alone.
 

Deleted member 9486

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It just goes both ways. Everyone has to have and express strong opinions, both positive and negative, about things these days.

I largely stay out of movie and tv show threads as it's just exhausting. I like what I like and dislike what I dislike. I don't really care what others like/dislike and why, much less to get into the same tired arguments over subjective options ad nauseum which is all those threads are anymore.
 
Charamiwa

Charamiwa

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Oct 25, 2017
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I hate to go the both sides route, but I have to say the discourse around this movie was insane. On one hand you had some hardcore fans feeling betrayed, on the others you had people over compensating trying to convince everyone that it was, in fact, extremely deep. And the same way I'll tell fanboys to get over it, I won't take seriously people that try to make it like a deconstruction of a modern blockbuster or anything like that.

You had the "they destroyed Luke!!!" crowd and the "ummmh actually it's about failure" crowd. Both were bad but I guess the latter involved some serious people that, in my eyes at least, kind of embarrassed themselves. The former are just fanboys, it's kind of expected.
 
ThiefofDreams

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Between these movies and the BvS, Justice league stuff, I see way more people who don't like them ridicule the people who do...
 

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Crossing Eden said:
A big problem is that people vastly exaggerate the amount of people who dislike the film compared to the praise, using arbitrary metrics that seem to only apply for the SW films specifically and nothing else, like user scores on metacritic and rotten tomatoes, and not say Cinemascore, which has been used in the film industry for more than 30 years.
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Exhibit A.
 

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dmaul1114 said:
It just goes both ways. Everyone has to have and express strong opinions, both positive and negative, about things these days.

I largely stay out of movie and tv show threads as it's just exhausting. I like what I like and dislike what I dislike. I don't really care what others like/dislike and why, much less to get into the same tired arguments over subjective options ad nauseum which is all those threads are anymore.
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Sometimes its nice to discuss things you enjoy with likeminded people, but I agree with where you're coming from. Your opinion becomes subject to opposition as if it were presented as a fact and discussions turn into arguments over having the "correct" opinion regardless of the fact that its subjective content.

And Im guilty of that too, it becomes easy to get caught up in when that's the norm rather than the exception. But for the most part Ill try to exercise some self awareness when I can.
 
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DeltaCanuckian

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Oct 25, 2017
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Because while there are certainly legitimate criticisms to made of the film, in my experience most detractors of the film opt to incoherently screech about how it's the worst thing ever made instead of actually forming an argument.
 
Punchline

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why do some people have such a hard time accepting some really did like the last jedi that much
 
Vincent Alexander

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Oct 26, 2017
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I tried getting in here before, "both sides" because yeah...it is way worse on that side that likes the movie and can't understand those that don't.

Yopis said:
Same reason people can't accept some don't like Horizon.
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Whoa whoa whoa. Let's not get silly here. That is GoTY 2017. There is no question. Or debate. I'll wrestle you over it.
 
PMS341

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I really enjoy Star Wars as a whole. The universe, the extended bits, the games, etc. It can be a fun properly when treated with care.

As someone who enjoys films and spent a lot of time in my life studying filmmaking and media in general, I genuinely just felt the editing and pacing of The Last Jedi was just too fast, and left little time for establishing or lingering shots. This faster-paced editing and shot sequences are great for 2-5 second clips on social media, which I believe is the intent of a lot of different cinematographers and editors who may be beholden to marketing. Commercial art is still art, but can be diminished due to purpose. And no art is exempt from critique, but constructive criticism is often met (or established) with vitriol.

The past ten years have been exponentially huge for nostalgic IPs, and superhero movies have become the new Westerns. More accessible than ever, an influx of both positivity and negativity is expected with a growing fanbase as well as the opposition that comes alongside it, not to mention the ease-of-access of social media. The cinema has always been a focused and open form of escapism, and with said escapism being much needed in the current political climate, the idea of criticizing something positive (even a product) in contrast to current events becomes not only personal, but stressful. Naturally, this bleeds over into videos games as well.
 
Chumley

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Thread backfire incoming, it's actually the exact opposite. The critics can't accept that people liked it, and they also can't accept that a huge number of them hate the movie for thinly veiled sexist and racist reasons.
 
Kyoufu

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What I find weird is TLJ dislikers being labelled as "fanboys" when they're not the ones willing to die on a hill for a poorly directed mess of a movie.

Chumley said:
Thread backfire incoming, it's actually the exact opposite. The critics can't accept that people liked it, and they also can't accept that a huge number of them hate the movie for thinly veiled sexist and racist reasons.
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Pulling the racism and sexism card here is idiotic.
 

Deleted member 4034

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Vincent Alexander said:
I tried getting in here before, "both sides" because yeah...it is way worse on that side that likes the movie and can't understand those that don't.
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I'm sorry, but am I remembering December - March differently where it was "here's my fresh take on why I didn't like TLJ" threads almost daily seemingly made for the sole purpose of baiting people?

There's not liking the movie for actual reasons and then there's saying, the movie sucks because it didn't do X or explain X when it in fact did. Or it dropped X plotline from TFA, when it in fact did give you an answer.
 
LossAversion

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The same reason that some fans have such a hard time accepting that some just did like TLJ that much.

It's pretty disingenuous to act like anyone who enjoyed this movie and defends their opinion on it is acting like a religious zealot shilling for a big corporation. Just as it would be disingenuous to act like anyone who disliked this movie is just being a contrarian hipster about a popular franchise.
 
OP
OP
Occam

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Speevy said:
I think this is a problem, but it also might be a rather narrow problem to the point where it seems like you're replying to another thread with a thread.

No disrespect.
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No, I watched the Red Letter Media video yesterday, and the scenes of those (quasi-)religious fans cheering at these rally-like corporate events are what inspired this thread.
 
adrem007

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Chumley said:
Thread backfire incoming, it's actually the exact opposite. The critics can't accept that people liked it, and they also can't accept that a huge number of them hate the movie for thinly veiled sexist and racist reasons.
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Lol that's exactly the sort of shit the OP is talking about. TLJ fans are obnoxious with their ''you could only dislike TLJ if you are racist, sexist, or you just didn't get it''
 

Vish

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Oct 28, 2017
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The very vocal anti-diversity crowd left a bad taste on internet mouths as well.
 
gutter_trash

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TLJ tossed a wrench into the new trilogy and made me stop caring about this "story" they have chosen to tell.

Mind you, I liked TFA
 
NJDEN

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Something that has annoyed me since the release of this film is how those who did enjoy it defend it from critics by claiming, "Most who did not like it are just upset fans who wanted the plot to go differently". The film has extremely legitimate criticisms including the pacing, plot armor, out of place comedy, and much more. Enough people are dissatisfied that it is obvious the film is an extremely divisive one. If it was not considered so divisive then people would not still be arguing about it in such high numbers so far after its debut. I don't remember nearly as much controversy surrounding TFA, or even Rogue One.
 
Jesse_and_the_rippers

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Dec 22, 2017
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I think all the professional critical praise gives people ammo to feel it's "objectively" good, hence the burning desire to prove any amateur criticism wrong.

I did not like the movie but have a hard time talking about it, both here and real life, because of how fanatic the defenders are. A coworker straight up said to me "you know you are in the minority, right? It's a great movie". This was after me casually saying "ehh, I didn't really like the most recent one".
 
Fuchsia

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poptire said:
It's sort of like what happened with that Conan God of War video. Certain fans are too in the tank for the properties they love, so criticism against the movie feels like personal criticism against the fans.
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Yep. This. It happens with lots of long running franchises. It's rampant on this site. It is sort of a natural human reaction though and I think we probably all have been guilty of this kind of behavior at some point in our lives. It just seems to make people feel in some small way like they are personally being attacked or that they are responsible as fans to defend what they love no matter what.
 
Rad Bandolar

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Occam said:
Could it be that to some people, Star Wars has basically become a religion, sacrosanct, any critical thinking forbidden?
Do these fans think it is their duty to defend Star Wars against heretics, and make them repent?
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I read this in the voice of that guy who narrates Ancient Aliens and Curse of Oak Island.

Anyway...most of it's just your stock-standard tribalism applied to entertainment, as well as various insecurities (i.e., admit no weakness or fault, else it will all fall apart and the thing you've invested time and effort defending will be for nought).

I think it's been ramped up a bit in recent years, because the loudest, most obnoxious arguments get the most Likes, Shares, and Subscribes. And that obnoxiousness begets a equal and opposite obnoxiousness, and the whole thing goes round and round until the whole thing finally dies out or one of those bores gets elected President.
 
House_Of_Lightning

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Many people wanted to read into it some level of "woke" politics in it, so not liking TLJ was also not liking it's "woke" politics, whether they were really there or not.

And since people need that social karma...
 
Burrman

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I love the movie but I understand why some people wouldn't. Its different.
But some of the criticisms of this movie are ridiculous and wouldn't be brought up in any other movies.
 
Crossing Eden

Crossing Eden

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Shin Bobo Dakes said:
I'm sorry, but am I remembering December - March differently where it was "here's my fresh take on why I didn't like TLJ" threads almost daily seemingly made for the sole purpose of baiting people?

There's not liking the movie for actual reasons and then there's saying, the movie sucks because it didn't do X or explain X when it in fact did. Or it dropped X plotline from TFA, when it in fact did give you an answer.
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Listen the Rey Kenobi plot line was absolutely integral to this trilogy! They dropped that incredibly crucial plotpoint!
 
StrangeRoboMemory

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No problem with not liking it, some people don't like movies. Many of the things I've read, though, go after the movie with MRA bullshit, hyperbolic whining about how the series is now ruined, their childhood is spoiled, please make this movie non-canon, the film "cucked" Luke, the whole series has been cucked, etc. Obviously there are actual critiques to be made, it's not a perfect movie at all (the casino planet was bad, del Toro's character was an absolute waste and totally pointless), but a lot of crap that I've seen online has echoes of all this garbage vitriol and impotent anger.
 
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