Agreed. Sonic CD is inferior but still a good game but not up the level of Mega Drive Sonic. Ohshima did go on to direct some right classics for SEGA Saturn though (Burning Rangers and Nights) so he's talented too I feel in the Director chair.
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Where is Sonic Mania 2?
- Thread starter Wariobenotware
- Start date
Some credit for classic Sonic should go to Mark Cerny, too, imo. He and Yasuhara pitched Sonic 2 to Sega and Sega turned them down. When Sonic 1 turned out to be a hit Sega went back to Cerny and told STI to get to work on Sonic 2. They lost months of dev time.
the colors levels in generations are a poor representation of what colors did. the powers feel more like mario level ups in context, granting access to special areas. you can also blow through most levels, although you won't get s-ranks.
the pacing is remarkably better than generations. while generations has higher highs with the best 3d sonic levels, colors is a lot more consistent. you'll get these great, showy setpiece levels that are 5-7 minutes long and focus on sonic's platforming abilities, and then you'll get smaller levels that might not last a minute, and focus on a wisp power. instead of a hub world, you have a level select screen like super mario bros. 3. so you don't have to 'run' to the next area. you don't also have to go through side quests in order to unlock new levels. red rings instead unlock multiplayer levels. the multiplayer levels are abstract-looking platormer levels that you can play on your own. finishing all of these unlocks super sonic.
it's such a great template for how to do 3d sonic right, blending in a variety of 3d and 2d action together, expanding on sonic's move set instead of introducing other playable characters... and sega just bins it. the sad thing is that 2d sonic was still around and doing its own thing at the time the 2d sonic colors felt like 2d sonic had also gotten to a point where it could be a modern version basically divorced of the classic sonic era. instead we get 2d generations which is... short, and the 3ds sonic boom games that are exploration based for some reason. it's disappointing how the 2d went downhill when the advance trilogy and rush trilogy were relatively well received - especially to the 3d series at the time.
for what it's worth, both lost world and forces felt like they came down to time management issues behind the scenes. lost worlds has levels that go on for 15 minutes, and much of it feels like it should have been left on the cutting room floor. in colors, there are some pretty great transitions from 3d to 2d - sonic will start on a rail and it will zip and turn until the camera shows him sidescrolling. in lost world, you just get to a certain part of the level, it will fade to black, and fade in from black to show the new perspective. i'd argue that forces is better, but it's so short that it feels like a first draft.
They should make a Nights into Dreams crossover game where you go into the dream world to rescue a Classic Sonic who's trapped in there
Sonic Mania came out three years ago. Still a bit early to panic over whether or not a sequel is getting made
Well, one of the developers worked on a darkwing duck pitch!
And it got canned.
But then they reworked it into an original IP by focusing on the grapling hook mechanic!
And the kickstarter didn't reach funding so we don't really know what'll happen to this project.
I hope they manage to fund it somehow, because it nailed that Megadrive feel. It gives me some Marsupilami / Garfield CitA vibes, if that makes any sense. Probably because of the sound when picking up bones, but because the spritework as well.
And it got canned.
But then they reworked it into an original IP by focusing on the grapling hook mechanic!
And the kickstarter didn't reach funding so we don't really know what'll happen to this project.
I hope they manage to fund it somehow, because it nailed that Megadrive feel. It gives me some Marsupilami / Garfield CitA vibes, if that makes any sense. Probably because of the sound when picking up bones, but because the spritework as well.
This is correct. It's not like Sega has put out other Sonic games since then, either. Both Mania and Sonic Forces came out in 2017, and outside of a single spinoff (Team Sonic Racing) it's been all quiet
I would almost guarantee that we will get another Sonic Mania game.
The sales, reception, positive press and incredible legacy that the game has built for itself all but assures that it will happen.
The bigger questions are: "When?" and "who will develop it?"
The sales, reception, positive press and incredible legacy that the game has built for itself all but assures that it will happen.
The bigger questions are: "When?" and "who will develop it?"
That's terrible news. Sonic Mania is a special game and I was hoping for some more sequels.
If Sega had literally any sense in the world they would of hired the Sonic Mania team full time and had them making a real sequel to Sonic 3.
But no Sega threw away the guys that behind one of the best reviewing and best selling Sonic games in decades.
But no Sega threw away the guys that behind one of the best reviewing and best selling Sonic games in decades.
Seriously, I would love them to hire the guys full time and make Mania 2 or just another fantastic 2D Sonic. Just maddening.
They funded and published it, yes. Even the initiative of Sonic Mania (title & concept) came from an internal person (Takashi Iizuka).
You know, It would be really great to live in a universe where anybody other than SEGA/Sonic team owned and developed the Sonic IP.
They've been mismanaging this iconic series since 1995, and it never ceases to be exhausting.
Honestly, I don't expect anything from SEGA on this front, but that just leaves me room to be elated should it happen. What I did do is double dip and bought Sonic Mania+ on PC so even if a sequel never happens, I can always expect the sonic modding community to eventually do that instead.
I'd like to see an alternate universe where Sega didn't bribe Yuji Naka with a Ferrari to come back when he left the company after Sonic 1 and instead of Naka becoming head of Sonic Team Yasuhara did.
Colors, Unleashed, and Generations are all great games. The praise for the Sonic Mania team always borders on psychotic.
It's probably jokes, but the sad part is that it kind of lines up with Sega's past behavior of petty antagonistic attitudes between different teams and branches.
Another one doesn't really need to be made. Sonic Mania was a perfect love letter to the original games. It really doesn't need a sequel. I'd rather see a 3D Sonic game made that works and not based on what Sega is doing with Sonic 3D games.
Sega needs to contract out 2D Sonic games to this guy. He and his team clearly understand what makes a great Sonic game a great Sonic game.
Get ya spirits up, OP. Between Sonic Mania and Streets of Rage 4, Sega might realize there are other dev teams out there who can best capture the spirit of their classic franchises and sell it to modern audiences.
If a Sonic Mania 2 is simply another well-made throwback game I could take it or leave it. Should the team return for another game I'd want Sega to give them carte blanche to go nuts with it.
Please get Whitehead and Lopes to remaster S3&K like the other classic games though. I would pay good money to have the Sonic 1-3 and CD remasters plus Mania in one package.
Please get Whitehead and Lopes to remaster S3&K like the other classic games though. I would pay good money to have the Sonic 1-3 and CD remasters plus Mania in one package.
I get the premise of the thread, but there also hasn't been a new Sonic game since Forces either.
There's definitely a Sonic game or two in development. We might just need to be patient.
Also I think Maina outsold Forces on Steam, but does anyone know if Forces outsold Mania in general?
There's definitely a Sonic game or two in development. We might just need to be patient.
Also I think Maina outsold Forces on Steam, but does anyone know if Forces outsold Mania in general?
Being developed along side other sonic projects problably. I just hope its not a " We can do it ourselves " situation and they screw it up. I feel like there are a lot of wild out of touch folks in this thread. Who frame sonic mania as the only thing people want, that ain't true. And lot of their money with sonic is though merch and the mobile game selling the characters to be people and stuff. So framing it as " the " sonic game isn't accurate really. But having a classic alternative for those who aren't like me is something that should have happened years ago. And it would be sad for sega to just decide to not or fuck up the bag. But it wouldn't be unusual unfortunately
I feel like even Sega recognizes that Dimps and Sonic should never have been a thing. It's been 7 years since they even touched anything Sonic.
Sega did seem to be gearing up for a year of Sonic news but that quickly disappeared because of that ol' rascal COVID. Who knows, maybe Sonic Mania 2 (or some kind of 2D game) was planned to be announced.
No one thought this until Sonic 4. It's such an awful thing to say after all the good that Dimps did for the series too.
Let's not forget that Dimps was behind the Sonic Advance and Sonic Rush trilogies, all six games are fairly well loved.
We rarely recognize our biggest mistakes as we're making them.
I think Sega screwed themselves over by limiting the initial release to merely a downloadable title but it paved way for Plus so I guess no harm done.
I keep seeing this being thrown around without any reliable sources to back up these claims.
I keep seeing this being thrown around without any reliable sources to back up these claims.
Sure.
Still doesn't validate your statement of "Dimps and Sonic never should have been a thing". Those six games that preceded Sonic 4 earned them a lot of good will. They lost that good will, essentially by calling Sonic HD "Sonic 4" and it handling/feeling/sounding nothing like the Genesis trilogy (god that soundfont was grotesque).
But those six Dimps handheld Sonic games are still widely adored.
If you're going to be that guy, you should at a bare minimum know there were only 2 Sonic Rush games.
That's not true. Sonic Advance 1 was the only Advance game that tried to be classic, but Dimps has always been bad at level design even back then. Advance 2 changed the series into hold right downhill speedrun, and Advance 3 is a mess. The Rush games have even worse level design and introduced the boost mechanic that's been overused and terrible physics that Sega borrowed for Generations and Forces. They're good games overall but basically ended any hope we'd get good classic Sonic games.
Dimps level design, especially from Sonic Advance 2 onward, is very automatic with lots of springs and boostpads to send you in the right direction, tons of bottomless pits, and very sterile visuals as if every level was made of Chemical Plant Zone tubes and levels with very little distinctiveness beyond visuals.
People have complained about Dimps since Sonic Advance 2, but instead of fixing their level design Sega just started adding these to every game:
I am going to continue to bet that the team founded by key Mania staff, around the time when a Mania followup would've spun up, named for a Sonic reference, and working for years in silence without any announcements or apparent revenue stream
is probably working on a Mania followup.
is probably working on a Mania followup.
To be clear, I'm speaking of general fan reception for these games and not my own personal opinion.That's not true. Sonic Advance 1 was the only Advance game that tried to be classic, but Dimps has always been bad at level design even back then. Advance 2 changed the series into hold right downhill speedrun, and Advance 3 is a mess. The Rush games have even worse level design and introduced the boost mechanic that's been overused and terrible physics that Sega borrowed for Generations and Forces. They're good games overall but basically ended any hope we'd get good classic Sonic games.
Dimps level design, especially from Sonic Advance 2 onward, is very automatic with lots of springs and boostpads to send you in the right direction, tons of bottomless pits, and very sterile visuals as if every level was made of Chemical Plant Zone tubes and levels with very little distinctiveness beyond visuals.
People have complained about Dimps since Sonic Advance 2, but instead of fixing their level design Sega just started adding these to every game:
All super valid opinions but the overall sentiment is mostly love for those Sonic games. Totally agree with you the bottomless pit bullshit.
Sonic Advance 3 gets a TON of love, I was talked into buying a physical cart by more than three game review YouTubers I follow and kept seeing it get shout-outs from Sonic fans. ...but I personally find it to be really frustrating and often confusing. I appreciate that it's packed with content and new features but the cheap deaths really hurt my experience with it.
Cartridge kind of sits on my shelf now, I never finished it.
Sonic Colors DS is the third Sonic Rush game.
I think they probably meant Colors DS, which was developed by Dimps and functioned like a Rush game.
Not sure, but I think Mania ended up outselling Forces in general.
Only the first of the Advance games was any good though (and it still wasn't as good as 1-3&K). 2 and 3 became too automated 'hold right to win' and with bottomless pits out the wazoo.
Ehhhh...
I lived through those games in the Sonic community as they happened and there were plenty of people that complained about the Sonic Advance games as they were coming out, particularly Sonic Advance 2 and especially Sonic Advance 3. They were never hard games, but they were very mean games, with weird spikes in difficulty. Blind jumps, twitch-or-die segments, unclear level flow, things like that.
It's just Sonic 4 was like, this nexus of everything annoying about the Dimps games amplified to 11.
Dimps also made Sonic games after Sonic 4, and it's not like Sonic 4 was a fluke. Sonic Colors DS was an ugly game with cluttered level design, Sonic Generations 3DS was bland and utterly forgettable, and though Sonic Lost World 3DS starts out stronger than the Wii U version, it falls apart thanks to bizarre puzzles, stiff controls, and extremely tedious level design. Sonic 4 was just the beginning of the end.
That being said, it's never really been known just how much of that was actually Dimps. People from Sonic Team worked on those games, too. For all we know, Dimps was caught in the crossfire.