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What's happening with Soraya Saga? Is she basically just Monolith's Ito now?

WarpSpeedMolasses

WarpSpeedMolasses

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So I always credited Xenogears' GOAT (and frankly yet to be topped) plot to Tetsuya Takahashi. But upon looking further into it, it seems like it was mostly his wife (Soraya Saga) along with Masato Kato (also gave us Chrono Trigger, Cross, etc.) who were responsible at conceiving its story and all the compelling and complex ideas it explores?

Thing is, looking her up on wikipedia, basically shows she worked on Xenosaga 2, penned stuff for a DS game that didn't even make it outside of Japan, then...???

Is this why the Xenoblade games' plots pale in comparison to Gears? Seems like a massive shame to not give an outlet to her voice and point of view if Xenogears (and Saga initially) are any indication of what she's all about.

What are the chances Monolithsoft will give us a modern project with the same type of plot and scope while letting her helm it? (Why bother have her there if her talents aren't utilized?)
 
Dusk Golem

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As someone uneducated on all of this, is there a place to read more about all of this? I think the story behind Xenogears story credit could be interesting to read.
 
kuroneko0509

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pretty sure she's not a monolithsoft employee now, so she's not the company's ver. of ito the eternal sqex janitor :\
 

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Dusk Golem said:
As someone uneducated on all of this, is there a place to read more about all of this? I think the story behind Xenogears story credit could be interesting to read.
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Panda Attack said:
What happened? Any place where I can read about it?
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http://xenogearsxenosagastudyguide.blogspot.com/p/the-history-of-xenosaga.html
I'll double check the validity of the source later and if it's bad and incorrect I'll delete the link as not to spread misinformation.
 
FiXalaS

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Kuwait.
Well she designed for Xenoblade 2.

and as long as she's the wife of Takahashi-san maybe she gives Takahashi-san insight sometimes.
 
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WarpSpeedMolasses

WarpSpeedMolasses

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CaviarMeths said:
As far as I know, she has a successful career outside of video games and probably just decided to focus on that.
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What works has show done outside of games? I'd love to keep up with her stuff. Wikipedia only has her videogame stuff listed.
kuroneko0509 said:
pretty sure she's not a monolithsoft employee now, so she's not the company's ver. of ito the eternal sqex janitor :\
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She was apparently a guest artist on Xenoblade 2. Just not a writer. Not sure if that's a freelance gig or not though.

Schopenhauerian said:
There was some interesting discussion in previous threads (here and here, for example), would certainly be interesting to know more.
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Thanks for those snippets. Pretty fascinating. Absolutely nothing against Takahashi. (Still enjoy his games and love XB2 as its own thing.) But, it's a massive shame Soraya isn't getting more of the recognition, and spotlight that she deserves, along with new opportunities in games.
 
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Zen

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She is responsible for Gears' and Xenosaga's writing yes. Takahashi has never been very good in that department. The -blade games don't have the same feel that Gears and Saga had.
 
Pandora012

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Part of the reason Blade has never really clicked with me was the story. They just didn't have the same feeling I got from Gears and Saga. Soraya Saga penning the story is probably a must for me to enjoy xeno again.
 
CGiRanger

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She drew Gorg for Xeno 2
XC2-Yuuou.jpg
 

B.K.

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Apocrypha said:
After the snafu with Xenosaga and Namco I'm pretty sure she retired from video games.
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There was no "snafu" with Namco. Soraya Saga herself said they weren't responsible for the changes after Episode I. It was all internal problems at Monolithsoft. They decided to put a new team on Xenosaga and the new team didn't want her or Takahashi's input on the series for Episode II.

Pandora012 said:
They just didn't have the same feeling I got from Gears and Saga.
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Of course it didn't. They're not the same type of story. Xenoblade isn't a scifi/fantasy epic like Xenogears. It's a typical shitty shounen story that would be right in place in any shounen manga magazine.
 

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B.K. said:
There was no "snafu" with Namco. Soraya Saga herself said they weren't responsible for the changes after Episode I. It was all internal problems at Monolithsoft. They decided to put a new team on Xenosaga and the new team didn't want her or Takahashi's input on the series for Episode II.



Of course it didn't. They're not the same type of story. Xenoblade isn't a scifi/fantasy epic like Xenogears. It's a typical shitty shounen story that would be right in place in any shounen manga magazine.
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Thanks for the correction!
 
Taruranto

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WarpSpeedMolasses said:
So I always credited Xenogears' GOAT (and frankly yet to be topped) plot to Tetsuya Takahashi. But upon looking further into it, it seems like it was mostly his wife (Soraya Saga) along with Masato Kato (also gave us Chrono Trigger, Cross, etc.) who were responsible at conceiving its story and all the compelling and complex ideas it explores?
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No, Soraya Saga created the general set up (Basically Deus and Fei's DID came from her) then Takahashi reworked it as a mystical love story. Kato just wrote some small parts of the story (Lahan, Maria and Chu-Chu).

Xenosaga is like 50% her, 50% her husband.
 
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WarpSpeedMolasses

WarpSpeedMolasses

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foxuzamaki

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B.K. said:
There was no "snafu" with Namco. Soraya Saga herself said they weren't responsible for the changes after Episode I. It was all internal problems at Monolithsoft. They decided to put a new team on Xenosaga and the new team didn't want her or Takahashi's input on the series for Episode II.



Of course it didn't. They're not the same type of story. Xenoblade isn't a scifi/fantasy epic like Xenogears. It's a typical shitty shounen story that would be right in place in any shounen manga magazine.
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I mean, it wasent a huge snafu but they said in interviews that there was a management change at namco that restricted monolithsoft way more than they had when working on xenosaga 1, that management fired Soraya and just put the squeeze on them in general.

also anyone who has played the xenoblade games for more than just a few hours will know of the deeper themes that are in those games.
 
Dreamboum

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Soraya deserves all the recognition. Outstanding person when it comes to write characters, motivations and inter-relationships. I heavily recommend this FF6 interview around the end (under her real name: Tanaka) where she speaks about the Figaro brothers she created. The attention for details is great.
 
Dogui

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Isn't she doing stuff for the new medieval Monolith Soft project? Am i imagining/confusing things?

Soraya Saga will always be the number one videogame writer for me.
 
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WarpSpeedMolasses

WarpSpeedMolasses

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Apocrypha said:
Probably is but now you got me excited. Huh I'm conflicted now though after my disappointment with Xenoblade 2 and to a lesser degree X lol. Anyway here's hoping!
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Dogui said:
Isn't she doing stuff for the new medieval Monolith Soft project? Am i imagining/confusing things?

Soraya Saga will always be the number one videogame writer for me.
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I suck at tempering my hype so... Until shown otherwise, in my head it's a Gears style Soraya game. :/
 

weltalldx

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Feb 23, 2018
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I always thought Xenogears had very genuine portrayals of the female characters, Elly, Miang, etc and now knowing that a female writer was responsible for the half the plot makes a lot of sense.

I also agree that all the Xeno-esque titles after Xenogears pale in comparison in terms of story/writing. One of the reasons Xenogears succeeded in telling a cohesive and intricate storyline was the rich research and background to the game's universe. You can tell the creators had very big ideas and concepts they wanted to tell.
 
CharlesAznable

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Goddammit guys. I hate seeing threads about Xenogears because it always reminds me that i'll never play another game like it again. Really wish Bamco would stop messing around and give us a Xenosaga HD collections, since I haven't played it and that's probably the only way i'll ever get close to it.

On topic: reading through this thread really solidifies why even though I love Xenoblade it doesn't touch Gears in the story department. Most likely the fact that it's Takashi working on it alone without the involvement of Saga.
 
bottledfox

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I'd love to have her back for a new Monolith RPG, but I don't think Monolith necessarily should make another game as wildly ambitious story-wise as Gears and Saga were. I think they should stick to what's working now, but try to take it to the next level in terms of rich world-building and grand scope.

Edit:

Well, come to think of it, I'd like to see them have a story at least as complex and deep as XC1, with the rich world-building and scope of XCX. I can see why they'd focus on different things in each game, but if they could bring those aspects together in one game, it'd probably be my new favorite game.
 
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Comic Obsessed

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She was the writer of Soma Bringer so she did have a more important role after they went with Nintendo.

I wish they would have handle a sequel.
 
Landford

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From my understanding of the work she done in the Gears series, she is the one that poured the ridiculous amounts of the philosophic, gnostic and the tons of symbolism that Xenogear is known for. One of the most stand out examples is Feis Mother, Karen, who is straight up an embodiment of Karen Horney, a famous german psychoanalyst.
 
Schopenhauerian

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Schopenhauerian said:
There was some interesting discussion in previous threads (here and here, for example), would certainly be interesting to know more.
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WarpSpeedMolasses said:
...Thanks for those snippets. Pretty fascinating. Absolutely nothing against Takahashi. (Still enjoy his games and love XB2 as its own thing.) But, it's a massive shame Soraya isn't getting more of the recognition, and spotlight that she deserves, along with new opportunities in games.
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I just realized jschreier is a member here! As I mentioned in those old posts, would definitely be interesting to see an article from him on this subject, at some point in the future.
 
Anaron

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The queen. She needs to be back writing for games.

You would think being one of the few prominent female Japanese writers that the press would push on that more. I miss her work so much.
 
Ishaan

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WarpSpeedMolasses said:
Thing is, looking her up on wikipedia, basically shows she worked on Xenosaga 2, penned stuff for a DS game that didn't even make it outside of Japan, then...???

Is this why the Xenoblade games' plots pale in comparison to Gears? Seems like a massive shame to not give an outlet to her voice and point of view if Xenogears (and Saga initially) are any indication of what she's all about.

What are the chances Monolithsoft will give us a modern project with the same type of plot and scope while letting her helm it? (Why bother have her there if her talents aren't utilized?)
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Two things need to be clarified here:

1. Soraya isn't actually part of Monolith Soft, she's a freelancer. Yes, she is Takahashi's longtime collaborator (and wife) but she isn't a Monolith employee.

2. Soraya and Takahashi had basically nothing to do with Xenosaga 2. Their original concept for it got tossed out of the window during pre-production and was replaced with a new scenario.

As to your actual question, the reason Xenoblade and Xenoblade X don't emphasize story quite as much as Monolith Soft's older games is that they prioritize gameplay, world construction, and systems first and foremost. This is part of Monolith's new approach to developing games, and they've said it's here to stay.

Frankly, this is for the best. Monolith Soft have a habit of releasing their games unfinished / incomplete. This applies to Xenogears, the Xenosaga trilogy, and even Xenoblade Chronicles X. The fact that they are more realistic about the scope (in terms of story) of their games now avoids situations where you're left with games that feel unfinished.
 
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duckroll

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Landford said:
From my understanding of the work she done in the Gears series, she is the one that poured the ridiculous amounts of the philosophic, gnostic and the tons of symbolism that Xenogear is known for. One of the most stand out examples is Feis Mother, Karen, who is straight up an embodiment of Karen Horney, a famous german psychoanalyst.
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What's that based on? Guess work? Assumption? Because the biggest tell tale sign of her direct contribution to the stuff she works on is family and fashion. As a character writer she focuses a lot on relationships and smaller scale interactions between characters which make them feel much more than just story markers. The older ex-Solaris crew in Xenogears, the Elements in Xenogears, Ziggy's character arc and personal history with his family and the Voyager in Xenosaga, Jr and the entire Kukai Foundation and URTV history story arcs in Xenosaga, the entire special team unit driven narrative in Soma Bringer, etc. Her characters tend to have a lot of history with each other, make a lot of casual small talk that have nothing to do with the larger plot, and they tend to dress in snappy ways if she does the original base designs for them. She's very influenced by Jojo artwise, maybe storywise too. The idea of family and generations in society are important themes she returns to again and again.

Ishaan said:
2. Soraya and Takahashi had basically nothing to do with Xenosaga 2. Their original concept for it got tossed out of the window during pre-production and was replaced with a new scenario.
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Not 100% true. Accurate in the sense that they did not supervise or have any direct input on what became the final product, but it wasn't tossed out. It was just heavily adapted. Much of the framework of what they planned was still there, but a lot was cut out. Parts were further adapted by Monolithsoft writers into Pied Piper as well.
 
Ishaan

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duckroll said:
Not 100% true. Accurate in the sense that they did not supervise or have any direct input on what became the final product, but it wasn't tossed out. It was just heavily adapted. Much of the framework of what they planned was still there, but a lot was cut out. Parts were further adapted by Monolithsoft writers into Pied Piper as well.
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I seem to recall Soraya's statements saying that the final scenario was "completely different" from what she and Takahashi had initially plotted out, though. Maybe I'm remembering wrong, but the impression I got way back when she was responding to fan inquiries was that Xenosaga 2 ended up being nothing like what she and Takahashi had envisioned, which was causing her a fair bit of grief at the time.
 
duckroll

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Ishaan said:
I seem to recall Soraya's statements saying that the final scenario was "completely different" from what she and Takahashi had initially plotted out, though. Maybe I'm remembering wrong, but the impression I got way back when she was responding to fan inquiries was that Xenosaga 2 ended up being nothing like what she and Takahashi had envisioned, which was causing her a fair bit of grief at the time.
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That's not exactly what I remembered. It's been a long time but way back on her website she even had a list of story stuff which Ep2 and Pied Piper used from her drafts. She would specify that for many of the events and actual plot, they changed stuff and added their own dialogue and whatnot, but it seemed clear to me that the plot elements were taken from their original outlines. The Jr stuff from Ep2 is iirc, very much based on their original work, just with changes and additions.
 
Ishaan

Ishaan

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duckroll said:
That's not exactly what I remembered. It's been a long time but way back on her website she even had a list of story stuff which Ep2 and Pied Piper used from her drafts. She would specify that for many of the events and actual plot, they changed stuff and added their own dialogue and whatnot, but it seemed clear to me that the plot elements were taken from their original outlines. The Jr stuff from Ep2 is iirc, very much based on their original work, just with changes and additions.
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Could be I'm remembering wrong then. Man, this stuff would make for such a fascinating documentary. Someday, I would love to put a spreadsheet together that basically chronicles the entire development history of Monolith Soft. I have one I made for Zelda and it was tremendously fun (and educational). I'd imagine there's a ton of info to be gleaned from old MSI interviews and their Complete Works artbooks.
 
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