How did you feel about Sonic Frontiers?

  • Loved it!

    Votes: 51 25.1%
  • Enjoyed it

    Votes: 92 45.3%
  • Thought it was mediocre

    Votes: 25 12.3%
  • Disliked it

    Votes: 19 9.4%
  • some old bullshit about how Sonic should never have gone 3d or some shit

    Votes: 16 7.9%

  • Total voters
    203

Solid SOAP

One Winged Slayer
Member
Nov 27, 2017
8,794
your mom's house
Sonic Frontiers came and went to mostly mixed reception from general audiences, but mixed to generally positive from its fanbase. It's been a while since Sonic Team properly elevated this series beyond including a completely unrelated gimmick to pair with the game's speedier levels, so finally getting to play a new Sonic game with a consistent and fairly satisfying gameplay loop from beginning to end was very refreshing.

Like many games in the series, however, it isn't perfect and a sequel could greatly build upon its foundation to make something really fun. So what do we want to see?

in b4 "for it to not come out" or "Sonic dies in it"

1) More cohesive, streamlined, and varied level design

63910b20db6d9.jpg


Sonic Frontiers' gameplay loop has you exploring its 5 islands in search of various items which gate your progression until obtained. It's satisfying, but frankly by the time you're done with an island, you're pretty exhausted by it.

I think the next game should significantly pair down the islands' size, but increase the total amount.

I'd love if instead of 5 huge, fairly bland looking biomes we got to explore 8+ medium sized ones. Similarly, I'm anticipating the level design to feel more cohesive within the world itself. Most of the islands you explore just have a ton of rails and strips of, like, level, just floating around them. The next game I'm hoping makes the areas you traverse look more intact with the world itself.

large.jpg


2) Better art style.

Frankly, Frontiers' art style is extremely bland. It looks fine enough I guess, but the complaints regarding it looking like an Unreal Engine tech demo are absolutely valid.

There are so many interesting locales to see in the Sonic series. Why can't we explore some worlds that look anything like this:

FQRA16hWUAccBNr


Or this:

maxresdefault.jpg


Or, really, anything that isn't just bland fields and biomes. I think having smaller worlds to explore would help facilitate more diverse areas to explore, so hopefully that means improving the art style too.

Those are my main gripes, really. I wanna see denser, more interesting level design with more visually inspiring art to go with it.
 

PhazonBlazer

Prophet of Truth
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
1,861
I want more movement options in the open world, like drifting. And the Cyberspace levels should be more cohesive with the open world.
 

hydruxo

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,177
An open world that isn't bland as hell would be a good start. It was like they dropped Sonic into a tech demo filled with random rails and bumpers everywhere without any attempt to give the world any personality to it. I really disliked Frontiers when I played it earlier this year and I went into it with an open mind. There's potential there but my god it was frustrating to play through.
 

Lant_War

Classic Anus Game
The Fallen
Jul 14, 2018
24,212
The main things:

- More momentum-based gameplay, Frontiers had some of this with the rails and the platforms but I want it to apply to every surface, also don't cap the running speed.
- Keep Cyberspace-style time trial stages, they were super fun. Design them around the open zone controls instead of what they did in Frontiers, have like 5-6 unique themes for them, add leaderboards and I'm good. Hell, maybe even add a level editor, I want it to be Sonic Trackmania.
- Better integrate the platforming challenges into the open world, no more open skies littered with floating platforms without any attempts to make it fit within the world.
 

PennyPasta

Member
Sep 3, 2020
1,880
Gamer County
expand upon the fun traversal stuff in the open world, fill it with more interesting stuff to see and do (give each area a handful of unique landmarks inhabited with NPCs or something) and of course let's keep the multiple playable characters from the upcoming DLC
 

ragolliangatan

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Aug 31, 2019
4,791
expand on the traversal, make the content in the world more interesting. I'd also like one contiguous open world rather than a series of islands.
 

TGB86

Member
Jan 27, 2021
1,285
The biggest thing for me is just to make it feel better to play. Momentum-based movement, tighter controls, better quality animations. I enjoyed the game, but an open world 3D platformer collectathon really should not feel as janky as Sonic Frontiers does.
 

Rahkeesh

Banned
Jun 20, 2022
4,916
- More momentum-based gameplay, Frontiers had some of this with the rails and the platforms but I want it to apply to every surface, also don't cap the running speed.

3D Sonic has never had significant momentum. Even before the boost era, you hit max run speed rather fast in Sonic Adventure (and could just spam spin dash anyway), and the thing leaned so hard on spring auto-sequences and even boosters. Mario 64 had better momentum with you sliding down tall hills and such. I'm not necessarily opposed but this is a bigger ask then you might think, because real momentum can make just navigating the world a huge challenge, when the slopes of hills and such aren't as easy to read as a 2d sidecroller and this game aspires towards liberating speed.
 

VariantX

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,492
Columbia, SC
Not a fan of having two separate physics models for free roaming and cyberspace. Would be cool to somehow have one. I imagine that's a tall order from a design standpoint.
 

Chumunga64

Banned
Jun 22, 2018
15,444
better movement

even with all the customization options available, sonic does not feel as good to control as he should. it's still boost gameplay at it's heart and it does not feel good controlling in an open world setting
 

alphacat

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,033
-Bigger budget, more things to do
-More polish, less jank
-Double down on the open zone stuff
-More variety in environments
 

chubbpenguin

Banned
Jan 16, 2023
1,576
Maybe for it not to be a clumsy, disjointed mess of a game like the first one?

I dont get the point of posts like this lol. just gotta smugly inform everyone you didnt like the game instead of actually having a discussion.

I definitely agree that I would like to see colorful areas that resemble the Genesis game's artstyle though.
 
OP
OP
Solid SOAP

Solid SOAP

One Winged Slayer
Member
Nov 27, 2017
8,794
your mom's house
expand upon the fun traversal stuff in the open world, fill it with more interesting stuff to see and do (give each area a handful of unique landmarks inhabited with NPCs or something) and of course let's keep the multiple playable characters from the upcoming DLC
I really hope they don't screw these characters up, or limit them substantially. Really let us enjoy playing as all of them in the open world with challenges suited to their movesets.
 

smart patrol

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,738
I know a lot of modern Sonic fans probably hate people like me but I would have overlooked so many of Frontiers' flaws if the art style evoked the Genesis games.
 

Tsumami

Member
Feb 3, 2022
5,858
For the levels to not be recycled nonsense, for there to be more than 4 fucking themes, and for the world to not look like a generic unreal engine asset flip
 

mrmickfran

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
29,917
Gongaga
- Ditto on a better artstyle, need something that actually looks Sonic and not some Unreal engine template. Give me my checkerboard floors

- Less jank of course

- I honestly can do without the cyberspace levels. The best platforming moments in Frontiers were across the world, like Rhea Island.
 
OP
OP
Solid SOAP

Solid SOAP

One Winged Slayer
Member
Nov 27, 2017
8,794
your mom's house
I know a lot of modern Sonic fans probably hate people like me but I would have overlooked so many of Frontiers' flaws if the art style evoked the Genesis games.
Absolutely. What this means, to me at least, isn't literally aping the original games' art styles, but making something that is more visually unique. Studiopolis wasn't taken directly from the classic games, but it feels right at home. I'd love to see more inspiring environments.
 

Richietto

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,245
North Carolina
Get rid of boosting, put an emphasis back on physics, and give the game a better art style. This realistic look they have been doing DOES NOT WORK. And it hasn't worked in a long ass time. And I'm sorry but this game especially looked like it was one of those fan made unreal engine demos. I want some green hill ass looking areas in a Sonic open world.

And honestly make Sonic anime like they have been for the recent collection and Mania. It's a great look and anime is super popular right now.
 
OP
OP
Solid SOAP

Solid SOAP

One Winged Slayer
Member
Nov 27, 2017
8,794
your mom's house
Get rid of boosting, put an emphasis back on physics, and give the game a better art style. This realistic look they have been doing DOES NOT WORK. And it hasn't worked in a long ass time. And I'm sorry but this game especially looked like it was one of those fan made unreal engine demos. I want some green hill ass looking areas in a Sonic open world.

And honestly make Sonic anime like they have been for the recent collection and Mania. It's a great look and anime is super popular right now.
Even Unleashed with it's more heightened realism is more fun and Sonic-like than Frontiers, imo.
 

The Deleter

Member
Sep 22, 2019
3,755
  1. Significantly pair back the combat. They already discovered that expanding the combat in terms of larger health bars for more combos, more methodical DMC/Bayonetta combat, or difficult boss design doesn't playtest well, so go all in on the boss design revolving around how you as a player approach the enemy, as a puzzle you need to solve with your movement options. The overworld boss design can work, especially since they understand not to use it in the linear levels and break the pace of said levels, but they need to make it more appealing in the long run.
  2. More varied locals. This ties in to the art style complaints, but we desperately need a return of colorful and varied worlds we're running through.
  3. Keep the open-world-to-linear-stage format. They are already, so this one's locked in for one more game at least, but it cannot be overstated how beneficial these are to letting players of all backgrounds enjoy their time with Sonic as a platformer, and as a "game" with more substance than a bunch of levels back to back. Giving the player the freedom to explore and interact with it's mechanics at their own pace was something the series was long overdue on, but instead of placing the burden of that on more open-ended stage design, just give them an open area to discover content in to begin with. The player creates their own playtime, creates their own fun, engages with the content they find enjoyable and has the ability to run past the content that they're less interested in - it's just the perfect system to a series that has notoriously had a hard time selling itself to players not already here for the stage-to-stage action.
  4. Better movement. In open zone it feels fine to control Sonic, but as soon as you are thrown into the cyberspace linear stages it just does not hold up well at all. The homing attack is worse and more intrusive to the pacing than ever before, the jump killing your momentum Lost World style is abysmal, the turning physics from either the cyberspace itself or the open world copy-pasted into them do not feel good either way and need more deliberate tuning to reach the quality of SA2's controls in a linear space, and in general the movement options of the linear stages need more focus overall. Frontiers did right by focusing on the open world as much as it did that it turned it into a selling point, but now it needs to take a look back at cyberspace and make that just as strong, if not stronger, than said reevaluation of Sonic as an open world.
 

Vex

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,386
Sa1 style adventure game.


....what? Fite me 1v1 rn if you disagree.
 

Lant_War

Classic Anus Game
The Fallen
Jul 14, 2018
24,212
3D Sonic has never had significant momentum. Even before the boost era, you hit max run speed rather fast in Sonic Adventure (and could just spam spin dash anyway), and the thing leaned so hard on spring auto-sequences and even boosters. Mario 64 had better momentum with you sliding down tall hills and such. I'm not necessarily opposed but this is a bigger ask then you might think, because real momentum can make just navigating the world a huge challenge, when the slopes of hills and such aren't as easy to read as a 2d sidecroller and this game aspires towards liberating speed.
Frontiers already does what I want, it's just limited in where they apply it to. The main problem is Sonic sticking to the ground like a magnet, you think "oh, I'm going to run off this cliff" but instead of launching forwards he sticks to the wall for a bit and is launched downwards instead, this doesn't happen with the black platforms in the open world for example where he always is launched forwards and with the speed you were carrying.

The other thing is the speed cap when running, it would make boosting pretty redundant but that's a good thing imo. Basically do it like the Frontiers momentum mod, don't think it's a technical impossibility since they already remove the speed cap with the drop dash.
 

BlueStarEXSF

Member
Dec 3, 2018
4,856
A great many things:

  • Open Zone
    • Somewhat smaller islands a bit more of them.
    • Better integrated platforming, rewards and secrets within the world.
    • Keep up and improve the enemy variety. Look at Ghost to see how special an encounter can be when it's well integrated into the world.
    • Remove the skill tree and hide the upgrades in the open zone as collectibles or as rewards for defeating particularly tough mini bosses.
    • Maybe an island with a town.
  • Cyberspace
    • One full length act per island with a unique level theme supplemented by bonus cyberspace style stages you can enter from various areas in the world.
  • Gameplay
    • Improve Sonic's movement in a meaningful way. They can go about it however they want.
    • Better synergy between the movement and the world.
    • Improve combat so that each move provides a useful effect. Perhaps integrate movement into combat.
    • Multiple playable characters. Not too many. Perhaps 1-2 in addition to Sonic with DLC adding more if necessary. Ideally, I'd want Blaze and Knuckles.
  • Visuals
    • Art style improvements. Look at Unleashed or Generations as reference.
    • No pop-in please
    • Presentation of cutscenes and animation must improve.
  • Story
    • A tone reminiscent of SA1 or Black Knight. I would like the game to start up more lighthearted and build up to the darker more epic final confrontation.
    • Have a story that's engaging to people who are not already fans. Things should happen.
    • Be earnest (Frontiers already was)
    • Smartly integrate other characters into the narrative.
  • Structure
    • Find a way to integrate the multiple playable characters structure with the Open zone. Perhaps not every character goes to every open zone or they go in different orders ? Another character's playthrough must be worthwhile or made optional.
  • Music
    • Ohtani just has to keep it up.
  • General
    • Don't bring back Green Hill or Chemical Plant for another 10-15 years. No reused locales unless it's Night Palace from Secret Rings.
    • More polish.
    • Cohesiveness and the little details matter.
 

Vidiot

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,624
More cohesive story, more varied locations both hub and action levels, a better final boss, maybe some towns and shops you could visit, have locations from Sonic's world visitable. Make sure to keep the hype ass Super Sonic fights. The first 3 we're perfect.
 
OP
OP
Solid SOAP

Solid SOAP

One Winged Slayer
Member
Nov 27, 2017
8,794
your mom's house
  1. Keep the open-world-to-linear-stage format. They are already, so this one's locked in for one more game at least, but it cannot be overstated how beneficial these are to letting players of all backgrounds enjoy their time with Sonic as a platformer, and as a "game" with more substance than a bunch of levels back to back. Giving the player the freedom to explore and interact with it's mechanics at their own pace was something the series was long overdue on, but instead of placing the burden of that on more open-ended stage design, just give them an open area to discover content in to begin with. The player creates their own playtime, creates their own fun, engages with the content they find enjoyable and has the ability to run past the content that they're less interested in - it's just the perfect system to a series that has notoriously had a hard time selling itself to players not already here for the stage-to-stage action.
  2. Better movement. In open zone it feels fine to control Sonic, but as soon as you are thrown into the cyberspace linear stages it just does not hold up well at all. The homing attack is worse and more intrusive to the pacing than ever before, the jump killing your momentum Lost World style is abysmal, the turning physics from either the cyberspace itself or the open world copy-pasted into them do not feel good either way and need more deliberate tuning to reach the quality of SA2's controls in a linear space, and in general the movement options of the linear stages need more focus overall. Frontiers did right by focusing on the open world as much as it did that it turned it into a selling point, but now it needs to take a look back at cyberspace and make that just as strong, if not stronger, than said reevaluation of Sonic as an open world.
There is a chance Cyberspace does not make the cut. Pretty sure the director said he wants to slowly get away from some concepts that are explicitly tied to nostalgia, including things like Cyberspace levels
 

Kunka Kid

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,062
Non-janky bosses. I legit could not believe some of them made it into a modern game. A more diverse open world as well.

Otherwise I actually really liked the game and had a ton of fun zooming around. The cyberspace levels were fun and man some of the music was fantastic.
 

Ferrs

Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
18,877
Make the island open world actually be involved in the level design. It felt like they grabbed a standard open world and then filled it with boxes to make the platforming, making the open world actually useless other than running from box to box. Would love if the level design and platforming came from the open world itself, and not bland boxes added around.

Also more varied cyberscape levels. Seriously , neglecting cyberscape levels will be a death sentence for Frontiers 2. There is only so much you can do in an open world, and Cyberscape should be there to complement the open world shortcomings.
 

Gunny T Highway

Unshakable Resolve - One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
17,659
Canada
More unique locales. We had like three grass zones, one desert, and one volcanic ash zone. They were all visually pretty bare bones.
 

Kazooie

Banned
Jul 17, 2019
5,495
More, but smaller over worlds is something I would agree on. Also bring the Cyberspace levels closer to Unleashed / Generations, especially in terms of the boost speed.
 

Mekanos

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 17, 2018
45,877
More, but smaller over worlds is something I would agree on. Also bring the Cyberspace levels closer to Unleashed / Generations, especially in terms of the boost speed.
This is basically where I land, if we are keeping the Frontiers formula. Denser, smaller, more interesting maps with better speed stages.

Honestly I replayed Generations a few weeks ago and it feels like they had already "solved" 3D Sonic then. That said I get that a 5 hour game for 60/70 dollars isn't feasible these days, so I hope they just punch up from Frontiers, which was okay but had a lot of room for improvement.
 

Pancracio17

▲ Legend ▲
Avenger
Oct 29, 2017
20,120
Its a fun game, but its hella flawed and janky. That open world design is so strange. Literally random platforming challenges everywhere and they sometimes lock you into 2D!

Also its missing a lot of my favorite Sonic locales. Theres some stuff in cyberspace but I want my City setting, Casino setting, blue icy setting, etc.
 

Diogo Arez

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 20, 2020
19,163
No matter what they do, they have to keep the Homing Attack Cancel, it made the awful cyberspace stages super fun
 

The Deleter

Member
Sep 22, 2019
3,755
There is a chance Cyberspace does not make the cut. Pretty sure the director said he wants to slowly get away from some concepts that are explicitly tied to nostalgia, including things like Cyberspace levels
I'm not aware of any statements where he's pushing away from Cyberspace-style linear stages itself; realizing fans dislike the reuse of classic stages, sure, but every other instance I've seen him championing the third generation continuing in Frontiers' footsteps very proudly.

Which, when this was his definition of what "open zone" means, both as Frontiers' starting point in development, and a general concept:

dengekionline.com

世界で輝くソニックチームに。開発の熱い想いが語られた『ソニックフロンティア』インタビュー【TGS2022】

11月8日に発売される『ソニックフロンティア』のインタビューをTGS2022で実施。オープンゾーンについてや、テストプレイで非難があった理由が語られました。

飯塚:オープンワールドのゲームとは、成り立ちが違います。"オープンゾーン"というのは、オープンワールドとは根本的に違うんです。

岸本ディレクター:我々が、オープンワールドに見えるフィールドを"オープンゾーン"と呼んでいるものは、いわゆるワールドマップ間の移動です。

古典的なステージクリア型アクションゲームには、すごろくのようにステージを選んで、ボスに挑戦するようなワールドマップがあるじゃないですか。あのワールドマップを3D空間にして、自由に遊べるようにした中に、ステージを選べるようになったらどうだろう、それこそが新しいアクションゲームのフォーマットじゃない? という発想からスタートしているんです。

なので、『ソニック』でオープンワールドのゲームを作ろうとしたわけではなくて、アクションゲームの進化として、「次世代のアクションゲームはこうなるよね」[...]

Iizuka : The origins of the game are different from those of an open world game. An "open zone" is fundamentally different from an open world.

Director Kishimoto: What we call "open zones," fields that appear to be open worlds, are what we call movement between world maps.

In classic stage-clearing action games, you have a world map where you can choose stages and challenge bosses like Sugoroku, [Japanese board game] don't you? What if we made that world map into a 3D space where you could freely play and choose the stages? That's the idea behind the new action game format.

We didn't set out to make an open-world game with "Sonic", but rather, as an evolution of action games, we thought "This is what the next generation of action games will be like" [...]

- it leans further into "doing the open-world-to-stage" format much more than "doing open world" in complete isolation imo, which is compounded by how often they reiterate that Open Zone is separate from Open World, (unfortunately without fully breaking down and reiterating why, unlike how they did here) and how open zone will continue pushing the "third generation" forward in the future. He's laid out the specifics for what constitutes an open zone and the third generation several times, so I would assume he's already heading into the next project with the same approach in mind, without dropping a core aspect like linear stages by the wayside.
 

Twister

Member
Feb 11, 2019
5,698
Just give me Sonic Adventure 3 with a chao garden. I don't need an open world Sonic game
 

Shift Breaker

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,776
Less awkward side scrolling moments would be the main thing. Nothing like running somewhere, accidentally landing on a boost pad and it locking you into a 2D section you can't escape from until you finish it or awkwardly backtrack. Especially with the third island being full of the stuff.

I'm up for the idea of the Super Sonic bosses being in the game, but they need a revamp and more time. I get that they were meant to be cool, but they turned out pretty awful in the end. First was jank, second did teach me that the parry window was infinite (which is its only positive) and the third was just too easy.

Otherwise, yeah, more of the same. Focus on the gameplay, don't shove in a ton of extra modes. I'm not a fan of the Chao Garden and I really dislike it being tied to 100% game completion.
 
Jan 23, 2022
1,915
I would get rid of the open world and just go back to levels. I appreciate them testing something new, but it just doesn't work for me.
 

The Deleter

Member
Sep 22, 2019
3,755
I would get rid of the open world and just go back to levels. I appreciate them testing something new, but it just doesn't work for me.
If it's worth anything they have said that there will be more "First and Second Generation" Sonic games, meaning more 2D and traditional 3D Sonic games. The "Third Generation" is just a new style that they'll be using alongside those styles now.

www.4gamer.net

[インタビュー]「ソニックフロンティア」,総合プロデューサーの飯塚 隆氏に聞く。シリーズが“第3の進化”を遂げた背景,そして今後の展望

 2022年11月8日の発売が目前に迫った「ソニックフロンティア」について,ソニックシリーズの総合プロデューサーを務める飯塚 隆氏へのインタビューをお伝えしよう。今回は長時間の試遊を経たうえで,より深いゲームの内容に迫ると共に,今後の展望も聞いてみた。

Iizuka: There is no doubt that the Sonic series is in its third evolution, but it is not a complete replacement of the first and second generations; some people like the 3D action Sonic, others like the side-scrolling Sonic. Even after the release of Sonic Adventure, there were 2D Sonic games.

The same is true for this game. When I say that Sonic has evolved to the third generation, I mean that a third game style has been created.
 

BlueStarEXSF

Member
Dec 3, 2018
4,856
If it's worth anything they have said that there will be more "First and Second Generation" Sonic games, meaning more 2D and traditional 3D Sonic games. The "Third Generation" is just a new style that they'll be using alongside those styles now.

www.4gamer.net

[インタビュー]「ソニックフロンティア」,総合プロデューサーの飯塚 隆氏に聞く。シリーズが“第3の進化”を遂げた背景,そして今後の展望

 2022年11月8日の発売が目前に迫った「ソニックフロンティア」について,ソニックシリーズの総合プロデューサーを務める飯塚 隆氏へのインタビューをお伝えしよう。今回は長時間の試遊を経たうえで,より深いゲームの内容に迫ると共に,今後の展望も聞いてみた。
We really need more than one 3D Sonic team. An actual 2D Sonic team would also be nice.
 
OP
OP
Solid SOAP

Solid SOAP

One Winged Slayer
Member
Nov 27, 2017
8,794
your mom's house
If it's worth anything they have said that there will be more "First and Second Generation" Sonic games, meaning more 2D and traditional 3D Sonic games. The "Third Generation" is just a new style that they'll be using alongside those styles now.

www.4gamer.net

[インタビュー]「ソニックフロンティア」,総合プロデューサーの飯塚 隆氏に聞く。シリーズが“第3の進化”を遂げた背景,そして今後の展望

 2022年11月8日の発売が目前に迫った「ソニックフロンティア」について,ソニックシリーズの総合プロデューサーを務める飯塚 隆氏へのインタビューをお伝えしよう。今回は長時間の試遊を経たうえで,より深いゲームの内容に迫ると共に,今後の展望も聞いてみた。
I hope they make a new 2D title sooner or later. I think the series is due for an HD Rush-style game.