Well yea, I think that's been obvious. The Dems dragging on this story is what's causing the damage.
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US Politics |OT 1| Smoked Filled Mar-A-Lago Rooms
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Well yea, I think that's been obvious. The Dems dragging on this story is what's causing the damage.
Another Rep (Dina Titus) saying he needs to make the decision on if he wants to run and he needs to make the decision "fast" LMAO. I love how they are all completely ignoring his 4-page letter repeatedly saying: "I am done talking about the debate. I am making clear I am running."
View: https://x.com/jakesherman/status/1811132295287558184?s=46&t=5q2U08gXVStIC0OkwBKlhA
View: https://x.com/jakesherman/status/1811132295287558184?s=46&t=5q2U08gXVStIC0OkwBKlhA
I think there should be an age limit. A job like that wreaks havoc on a person's well-being. Just put Biden and Bernie together to say that age isn't the only factor; it's the job, espcially at such a ridiculous age.
That's certa8npy the case right now. But the concern is that if Biden has morer senior moments later on, it'll do far more damage then what telye debate right now is doing.
It's interesting that Biden's numbers with Black voters went up after the debate but the Democrats handling of the issue and media coverage have driven that number back down even worse.
He was starting to climb in the polls a tiny bit pre debate. I think everyone was desperately hoping SotU Biden would show up at the debate and continue to push that trend and then instead they got the worst debate of any major candidate of the modern era.
"If only people weren't talking about the bad thing.... then we wouldn't look so bad in the public eye."
This has strong "If the Media didn't report on COVID Deaths, then nobody would have panicked" Vibes. Don't do this.
I think the media response immediately after the debate killed his campaign. The Democrats' call for him to step down became necessary as a result (which did more damage, but imo, the media damage was already lethal).
I don't have much faith that Kamala can win, but I imagine her upside is higher than Biden and she's probably the best bet at this point.
I agree with Bernie / AOC that the campaign needs to put out an economic vision for the next 4 years
I don't have much faith that Kamala can win, but I imagine her upside is higher than Biden and she's probably the best bet at this point.
I agree with Bernie / AOC that the campaign needs to put out an economic vision for the next 4 years
I am with you on it. He was my top pick in the primary. Man knows how to talk and dismantle talking points, he's ex military too, midwest, and is great at digesting info and knowing how to use it. He can go on Fox and dismantle them with ease and cut through.
Do I love he is a corporate Dem... no. But can he shift narratives in the right direction and also progressive in other areas? For sure.
And then if Kamala jumps in, They'll do the same to destroy her chances. Of course, when Trump wins, they'll run hundreds on pieces on why it was a dumb idea to replace Biden in the first place.
For all the people saying that dems have mishandled the media response I completely agree but I'm tired of people ignoring the fact that Biden was not doing well and was not liked even prior to the debate. So even if we could completely reverse to immediately predebate I was not happy at that time although I assumed once people saw how crazy trump was again it would start moving things in our favor. Even if Biden can somehow convince people he's not completely unable to handle the job the next 4 years that still puts us at most likely losing and instead of near guaranteed losing
1) The scolding "don't do this" stuff is absurd and has the opposite effect you want.
2) I'm just posting data and extrapolating on that data. Not saying it's the only reason people want Biden out, not saying he should stay in (my post history makes it VERY clear I think Harris should replace him), etc.
People have got to stop getting their underwear in a bunch over data posts like this.
I have not seen one person say that in here. Why do people see some data and instantly think that the person posting it automatically takes the other side when that other side's position wasn't even referenced?
These things aren't all mutually exclusive!
This, no matter who's in the democratic party position, they'll just shit on whoever is there. It's a Lose/Lose situation.
You can acknowledge the bad debate performance while still unifying behind Biden, conveying confidence, and moving forward.
There is still so much extreme homophobia in this country that I'm not sure Pete Buttigieg could win. I do think he's a very effective speaker and he constantly goes on Fox dismantling all of the conservative talking points. But we had Republicans that voted against the Respect for Marriage Act just a year or two ago. And this year, we had the FBI warning about going to Pride events because of possible terrorism attacks or shootings.
And I'm part of the LGBTQ+ community myself, so that pains me to say, but I'm just not sure the swing voters are voting in a gay man.
I remember during Pete's campaign events in 2020, people were throwing shoes at him while he was talking on the podium and calling him the F slur.
And I'm part of the LGBTQ+ community myself, so that pains me to say, but I'm just not sure the swing voters are voting in a gay man.
I remember during Pete's campaign events in 2020, people were throwing shoes at him while he was talking on the podium and calling him the F slur.
Yes. That's a given. We all understand this. And yet it doesn't take away from the fact she probably has a better chance to win than Biden at this point.
So much of the fighting in here has been people getting mad at others trying to explain the reasoning of a different point of view(often with data, both for and against Biden have compelling data), haha.
Again, stop underplaying what happened with Biden as a "bad debate performance."
In all honestly if the idea that if we just didn't talk about it people would've been okay and Biden would've polled better could also be taken to the side of a new candidate?
There'd likely be wouldn't be a backlash on the level of what happened with Biden right now and if there was any bad Trump news that could help him then it would help the new candidate as well.
Yes Democrats immediately bed wetting has probably harmed Biden badly but the problem is he has the potential to face these issues over and over and bring the story back in. Thankfully alot of his recent appearances haven't had him crater as badly but it's such a huge risk for that to happen.
There also needs to be a ton of communication for him to make his case and that would also potentially litigate this all over again which also has the potential to suffocate Trump stories as well.
I agree a more measured response from Dems would've been nice but at the same time I feel like either trying to plug our ears wouldn't have worked and any mention of possibly dropping Biden still probably would've led us here
There'd likely be wouldn't be a backlash on the level of what happened with Biden right now and if there was any bad Trump news that could help him then it would help the new candidate as well.
Yes Democrats immediately bed wetting has probably harmed Biden badly but the problem is he has the potential to face these issues over and over and bring the story back in. Thankfully alot of his recent appearances haven't had him crater as badly but it's such a huge risk for that to happen.
There also needs to be a ton of communication for him to make his case and that would also potentially litigate this all over again which also has the potential to suffocate Trump stories as well.
I agree a more measured response from Dems would've been nice but at the same time I feel like either trying to plug our ears wouldn't have worked and any mention of possibly dropping Biden still probably would've led us here
That's exactly what happened, stop exaggerating and overplaying it.
If Biden continues on the trajectory he appears to be on health-wise no one is going to be running those articles. You have to believe there is nothing wrong with the President to think those articles might show up, and I'm inclined to believe the guy who just did a sit-down interview with him and the guy who schmoozed with the President at a $14mn fundraiser for an evening, along with my own eyes.
The President is being kept out of unstructured public meetings now. How will he do a post-election press tour articulating how he would have won and that he shouldn't have been replaced if he can't even do that now?
We can't pretend it's just one thing, but we also can't pretend he didn't have good speeches both before and immediately after the debate.
It's complicated.
Clooney just said the man he met at his fundraiser was the same man we all saw at the debate and that he is deteriorating and is not the same man he knew in 2010 and 2020
Stop gaslighting us, you're terrible at it
I for one do not want to "shut up and get in line" behind a candidate completely disqualified by his post debate performance, when we still have an opportunity to replace him.
Convention hasn't happened. We got time.
I really don't get the blaming of the "media response". 60 million plus saw that debate, the state he was/is in. Frankly, I don't get how anyone that wants Trump to lose can say "let's stick with Biden" after seeing that debate. And the response from the Biden campaign made it so much worse, basically he stayed hidden for over a week( teleprompter appearances don't count).
Blaming the media is like blaming the coroner for a detailed autopsy report after the person died.
The Dems are their own worst enemy
We've got time but not much.
There will absolutely be think pieces on if Biden would have won regardless of what happens, namely because his favorables will 100% surge after he steps down. I know the American electorate and that's absolutely gonna happen. That isn't to say those articles will be warranted but they're gonna happen
Sure, there's still plenty of time to get behind him. It's looking like this will drag on to the convention where the Dems will have to unify behind him if they want to win.
Why would they? You need to articulate an actual explanation, otherwise it sounds like a conspiracy theory.
Nothing wrong with the Data you posted, it's the snippet at the end where you go "Unfortunately, you can't do anything about the media. They'll do this daily."
You insinuate that people shouldn't post about or respond to bad news because it may hurt you, which it antithetical to how reporting works, and very reminiscent of Trump Pandemic policies.
Because they are notorious for this. Like what planet are you living on?
Ever since I read that high school essay he wrote about Bernie, I could tell that he was a real one. People just have to play the game, y'know?
Exactly. I think people fret over debates and poll numbers way way too much. Obama was losing to McCain in the polls and guess what happened? He won.
I think Biden has generated enough good will with some of the things he has done like fighting for Student Debt Relief that its going to take a lot more than one bad debate performance to lose support.
I think two things can be true:
1) The media was always going to make Biden's debate performance a story, and a big one. Likewise, people were going to rightfully be concerned.
2) Democrats have handled this in the worst possible way. It's not about lying to the public. It's not about being concerned. Democrats in government have every bit as much control over the perception of the party as anyone else, and they completely forfeit that responsibility. This has been an utter travesty and embarrassment to watch play out. We are 14 days into this shit show and there still isn't a unified message or alternative to regroup around. Republicans are eating GOOD.
I was told that Democrats wanted to create a way for Biden to bow out gracefully and not make it look like the party was trying to pull him down. Complete failure on both counts.
1) The media was always going to make Biden's debate performance a story, and a big one. Likewise, people were going to rightfully be concerned.
2) Democrats have handled this in the worst possible way. It's not about lying to the public. It's not about being concerned. Democrats in government have every bit as much control over the perception of the party as anyone else, and they completely forfeit that responsibility. This has been an utter travesty and embarrassment to watch play out. We are 14 days into this shit show and there still isn't a unified message or alternative to regroup around. Republicans are eating GOOD.
I was told that Democrats wanted to create a way for Biden to bow out gracefully and not make it look like the party was trying to pull him down. Complete failure on both counts.
No, they will abandon him to save themselves in their own races. They will not go down with his ship with the course he has charted. NY is a battleground state. Michigan state dems are already distancing themselves. Senators are polling above the President.
Elected party officials will not sacrifice their own seats, governorships, and state legislatures because the guy at the top refuses to recognize that 70-80% of the country knows he is too old to run it.
One of my first memories about politics came from an issue of MAD magazine making fun of politics.
There were a bunch of 'Only a democrat/republican could...'
The one that's stuck with me was 'only a Democrat could possibly believe well meaning but inept is better than devious but good at it.'
Multiple decades later and it's amazing how it's still true.
You want me to "get behind him" and "convey confidence" and I'm telling you right now, the only confidence I can convey is that Joe is going down in November if he's the nominee.
Come the general election, if I have to back this guy, any kind of "confidence" you'd want me to portray to independents thinking about voting Trump or staying home would be an outright lie, and it turns out, theater was never my strong suite.
The bias against dems in the media is not a conspiracy theory.
There's been some cases just this past week of misleading headlines and sources having to correct what is reported, haha.
Yeah, we gotta speak up when the media is misleading regardless of if it will stop them or not, because it's the best way to spread knowledge on what's being misreported.
All of this.
The Democratic Convention in Chicago happens in 5 weeks. It will be interesting to see what happens between now and then.
Seriously? They're running "Democrats in disarray!" articles all the same. It will go into overdrive if Biden steps aside and picks Kamala.
No Democratic presidential nominee has polled this badly in literally decades. This isn't Obama this is Carter.
Nobody is unifying behind Biden now. That ship has sailed. Politicians are going to save themselves as polling gets worse and worse.
If that Northeastern poll holds true than #3 is that Dem voters are seemingly showing more discipline whipping themselves against Trump and Project 2025 in light of the complete failure of their own party to get its shit together.
The biggest hope right now is that the polls are a giant mirage that Dem voters are using to voice their issues but will still back the Dem candidate come hell or high water. What is the likelihood of a Dem voter who very strongly wants Biden dragged off the ticket committing and refusing to vote for Biden come November? I can't imagine that number is too high, if you know enough to know what's at stake with the Republicans then you likely know enough to know a Dem president needs to win no matter who it is.
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