US lawmaker who called out Star Wars Battlefront 2 lays out plans for anti-loot box law

[Deleted member 3897]

Headline copied straight from PCGamer.

Lock if old.

Chris Lee aims to prohibit the sale of games with 'gambling mechanisms' to anyone under the age of 21.

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"Loot box game mechanisms are often styled to literally resemble slot machines, and are made available to anyone in games on their mobile phones, consoles such as the X-Box, Playstation, and on home computers. This may explain why the American Psychological Association has identified 'Internet Gaming Disorder' as an emerging diagnosis which warrants further study in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-5)," the letter states.

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Videos from his YT channel:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WxcGYvvgJo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTURChcYM9A

https://www.pcgamer.com/us-lawmaker...plans-for-anti-loot-box-law/#article-comments

 

[Boiled Goose]

I do agree that digital slot machines that allow you to spend an infinite amount of money need regulation.

Mobile, consoles, PC. Regulate them all.

 

[Deleted member 1067]

I consider the industry to have moved past the point of self regulation here, and unless they get hit with the big stick they aren't going to do anything because they make too much money off of it.

 

[BassForever]

If this happens it'll be the biggest thing to impact the game industry maybe ever.

 

[Lost]

I consider the industry to have moved past the point of self regulation here, and unless they get hit with the big stick they aren't going to do anything because they make too much money off of it.

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Yes. They've tasted the money. No way would they give it up without a fight.

 

[Kill3r7]

I wish him the best of luck. If this bill is brought forth you better believe the lobbying machine will be turned up to full force.

 

[Theorymon]

I consider the industry to have moved past the point of self regulation here, and unless they get hit with the big stick they aren't going to do anything because they make too much money off of it.

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Yep. I know a lot of folks here don't want governments to regulate video games, but something has to give if we're going to squash lootboxes. The game industry sure as hell isn't going to do it, so who else but the government?

 

[IzzyRX]

I consider the industry to have moved past the point of self regulation here, and unless they get hit with the big stick they aren't going to do anything because they make too much money off of it.

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Pretty much.
I hate seeing politics getting mixed with gaming, but someone has to do it.

 

[Sanox]

Yeah the industry does not seem to have understood that it HAS to do something. This whole thing won't just blow over.

I am seriously shocked we have not had any statements from rating boards that they are looking into it as well as statements from publishers that they recognize that there is some need to do something. Something along the lines of "while lootboxes are popular among many and used by many players it is important to recognize the problems that could arise especially among our younger audience when given the opportunity to just keep spending money" atleast. Just anything

 

[Gamer17]

EA fuck up was so big this year that it reached parliament haha .without a doubt the biggest fuck up of this year was EA

 

[Deleted member 18823]

Someone needs to update those gambling laws to include loot boxes on it

 

[Deleted member 3058]

I don't want legislation passed. I want the industry to fix their own shit and stop their abusive practices.

Actual legislation is a worst case scenario outcome for me.

 

[chaos_planes]

Come on Trump, don't fuck this... Wait...

 

[Stone Ocean]

I don't want legislation passed. I want the industry to fix their own shit and stop their abusive practices.

Actual legislation is a worst case scenario outcome for me.

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The industry had their chance. Their answer was to double down.

 

[sibarraz]

How would you control this though?

Games like GTA are supposed to be por people older than 17 years, yet is too easy for kids to play (Mostly because parents dont care)

Also banning them for digital doesnt seem like a solution either since is easy to create an alternatove account, or use the account of one of your parentS

Viewing it this way, the only solution is flat out forbidden this games from being released

 

[disparate]

The only way that this problem goes away for the gaming industry is if they stop fucking doing it. We won't need it to be regulated if they cease the practice.

 

[Chaos2Frozen]

I have to say, I'm really glad all of this blew up so big and so fast that it would deter any of the games that I've been looking forward to next year and beyond.

I would hate to have to defend my favorite games for this bullshit.

 

[Demolition_Human]

The industry had their chance. Their answer was to double down.

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This.

The industry self regulating was a pipe dream.

 

[IzzyRX]

I don't want legislation passed. I want the industry to fix their own shit and stop their abusive practices.

Actual legislation is a worst case scenario outcome for me.

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They won't. It's a company making MORE money of it's products, why would they?

 

[Deleted member 2809]

 

[Gamer17]

Come on Trump, don't fuck this... Wait...

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haha lets hope he has no personal business with EA ,otherwise he will pass a law allowing EA to charge $18000 to play battlefront 2 first half :D

 

[Border]

"Internet gaming disorder" doesn't have anything to do with lootboxes. Seems disingenuous and willfully deceptive to bring it up here.

In summary, the diagnostic criteria for Internet Gaming Disorder include:

1. Repetitive use of Internet-based games, often with other players, that leads to significant issues with functioning. Five of the following criteria must be met within one year:

1. 
   
   
   • Preoccupation or obsession with Internet games.
   • Withdrawal symptoms when not playing Internet games.
   • A build-up of tolerance–more time needs to be spent playing the games.
   • The person has tried to stop or curb playing Internet games, but has failed to do so.
   • The person has had a loss of interest in other life activities, such as hobbies.
   • A person has had continued overuse of Internet games even with the knowledge of how much they impact a person's life.
   • The person lied to others about his or her Internet game usage.
   • The person uses Internet games to relieve anxiety or guilt–it's a way to escape.
   • The person has lost or put at risk and opportunity or relationship because of Internet games.

 

[McNum]

When the ESRB said they didn't see anything worth looking at, they invited in government regulation. Well done, failing at exactly the one thing they were supposed to do.

It would amuse me to see mandatory 21+ ratings on any game with real money for random results mechanics. Maybe go one further and require a big warning label like tobacco does in the EU. Over a third of the cover dominated by a big warning.

There was a time where this could have been contained and stayed an internal industry issue. But then EA got Star Wars involved and the ESRB failed to notice what was coming. So now it can't be contained anymore.

 

[Theorymon]

How would you control this though?

Games like GTA are supposed to be por people older than 17 years, yet is too easy for kids to play (Mostly because parents dont care)

Also banning them for digital doesnt seem like a solution either since is easy to create an alternatove account, or use the account of one of your parentS

Viewing it this way, the only solution is flat out forbidden this games from being released

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A possible solution in the U.S. at least would be to slap an automatic AO rating on stuff with lootboxes, since most stores refuse to carry them, and I don't think any of the big 3 allow AO games either.

This doesn't solve mobile games though, that might be a trickier problem to solve.

 

[Deleted member 1067]

I don't want legislation passed. I want the industry to fix their own shit and stop their abusive practices.

Actual legislation is a worst case scenario outcome for me.

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When ea is bragging about a 30% buying microtrans number on Madden a month after bf2 blew up I think it's very safe to say the industry has already made a decision on the matter as it stands. The only one who has the power to get them to stop at this point is the government.

 

[ethomaz]

My issue with lootbox is you can buy it instead to buy the specific item you want.

If you pay you need to get exactly what you want and not a random content.

Said that lootbox can be rewarded ingame activities just fine... it can be randomized content.

You just can't pay for randomized content... you need to know what you are buying.

 

[InfiniteBlue]

Hoo boy. Best of luck, Chris, this is what the industry needs.

 

[Chaos2Frozen]

I don't want legislation passed. I want the industry to fix their own shit and stop their abusive practices.

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Or else what?

...and that's the problem.

 

[Deleted member 3058]

The industry had their chance. Their answer was to double down.

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It sure seems that way. Here's hoping they quickly course correct.

Just saying it I recognize it for an unrealistic wish that will never be fulfilled. Maybe legislation really is the only viable outcome, at this stage. :(

 

[Beef Stallmer]

Gabe is going to be PISSED :-)

I hope the whole diseased corrupt building of game related gambling, which was built on the bodies of addicts, gets torn down brick by brick!

 

[Pif]

Burn those loot boxes to the ground.

About time to have some Darwin's Natural Selection on this industry.

 

[franklyshankly]

This guy is a Hawaii state legislature representative. Any law he would get passed only has effect in that state. He has no power to control federal legislation.

I also think its weird people are so on board with laws passed citing "internet gaming disorder" as a reason. What happens when it's a feature of games you don't hate that is regulated because of this?

 

[rras1994]

"Internet gaming disorder" doesn't have anything to do with lootboxes. Seems disingenuous and willfully deceptive to bring it up here.

In summary, the diagnostic criteria for Internet Gaming Disorder include:

1. Repetitive use of Internet-based games, often with other players, that leads to significant issues with functioning. Five of the following criteria must be met within one year:

1. 
   
   
   • Preoccupation or obsession with Internet games.
   • Withdrawal symptoms when not playing Internet games.
   • A build-up of tolerance–more time needs to be spent playing the games.
   • The person has tried to stop or curb playing Internet games, but has failed to do so.
   • The person has had a loss of interest in other life activities, such as hobbies.
   • A person has had continued overuse of Internet games even with the knowledge of how much they impact a person's life.
   • The person lied to others about his or her Internet game usage.
   • The person uses Internet games to relieve anxiety or guilt–it's a way to escape.
   • The person has lost or put at risk and opportunity or relationship because of Internet games.

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That just sounds like normal gaming addiction to me? And that's been known about for years and has nothing to do with lootboxes. Afterall, there was a reason that there was a stereotype of the obsessed gamer who lived in the basement and never went outside - no one really cared about those that suffered from it, they made jokes at their expense.

 

[Luchashaq]

Hilarious that anyone thinks the ESA/ESRB will even remotely act to self regulate on this garbage.

 

[Fuz]

Chris Lee, the hero we don't deserve.

 

[sibarraz]

A possible solution in the U.S. at least would be to slap an automatic AO rating on stuff with lootboxes, since most stores refuse to carry them, and I don't think any of the big 3 allow AO games either.

This doesn't solve mobile games though, that might be a trickier problem to solve.

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Wouldnt that change if big companies start releasing them though?

I doubt that any of the 3 companies will refuse a game from EA or Rockstar

 

[InfiniteBlue]

This guy is a Hawaii state legislature representative. Any law he would get passed only has effect in that state. He has no power to control federal legislation.

I also think its weird people are so on board with laws passed citing "internet gaming disorder" as a reason. What happens when it's a feature of games you don't hate that is regulated because of this?

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True, but he could be the catalyst that gets the attention of the federal government and other state politicians.

 

[Echo]

What's another age warning actually gonna do? The only ESRB rating that ever gets paid any attention is AO, and that's only by retailers because they don't wanna carry them.

 

[New Fang]

The U.S government generally ends up doing what powerful businesses want, so with that in mind I still think this never ends up happening. There is too much money being made off loot boxes to have them outright banned.

 

[Decarb]

I don't want legislation passed. I want the industry to fix their own shit and stop their abusive practices.

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[Rogote]

As someone who wants the lootboxes and unethical business practices to stop, I do realize that governments meddling in isn't a paradise solution. I know that. Yet I want something to happen, even if it means involving the government. The fucking industry had it's fucking chance and how did it respond? It played itself.

 

[Hoo-doo]

I don't want legislation passed. I want the industry to fix their own shit and stop their abusive practices.

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And I want to just find a million dollars between my couch cushions. Shit's not going to happen.

 

[Expy]

My issue with lootbox is you can buy it instead to buy the specific item you want.

If you pay you need to get exactly what you want and not a random content.

Said that lootbox can be rewarded ingame activities just fine... it can be randomized content.

You just can't pay for randomized content... you need to know what you are buying.

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I've said this over a million times now, it is super easy to work around that -- charge for in-game currency and charge in-game currency for lootboxes.

Easy. You're paying for in-game currency and you know exactly what you're getting. Then it's completely your choice to buy an in-game lootbox with said currency and the chance is yours to take.

 

[Legitmcfalls]

That just sounds like normal gaming addiction to me? And that's been known about for years and has nothing to do with lootboxes. Afterall, there was a reason that there was a stereotype of the obsessed gamer who lived in the basement and never went outside - no one really cared about those that suffered from it, they made jokes at their expense.

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Its amazing how some people look completely past other addicting properties of gaming but demand that something that triggers gambling addiction needs the government to step in and stop the problem. If the government decides that video games not only cause a gambling addiction but other addictions as well we will see a hell of alot more then lootbox regulations.

 

[disparate]

the machine will treat you like a winner, with flashing lights and congratulatory videos and the requisite clinking of virtual coins. The reality, of course, is that you have lost $2.


"The brain somehow registers a win," Kevin Harrigan says. "No matter what you think, physically you're being affected by these things—the lights, the sounds, the graphics—as a win. You can get 150 to 200 of these false wins, which we also call losses, an hour. That's a lot of positive reinforcement."

Losses disguised as wins also create a "smoother ride," as some within the industry call it, allowing a machine to slowly deplete a player's cash reserves, rather than taking them in a few large swipes. Because the machine is telling the player he or she is winning, the gradual siphoning is less noticeable.

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Video poker also offers its own version of losses disguised as wins.

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A crucial element in modern gambling machines is speed. Individual hands or spins can be completed in just three or four seconds.

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The ability to immediately access additional cash at many machines "shrink the time that transpires between a player's impulse to continue gambling and the means to continue gambling, thus minimizing the possibility for reflection and self-stopping that might arise in that pause," Schüll writes

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Casinos have developed formulas to calculate the "predicted lifetime value" of any given individual gambler. Gamblers are assigned value rankings based on this amount; the biggest losers are referred to as "whales."

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Oh gosh, I can't see the parallels at all.

 

[Border]

That just sounds like normal gaming addiction to me? And that's been known about for years and has nothing to do with lootboxes. Afterall, there was a reason that there was a stereotype of the obsessed gamer who lived in the basement and never went outside - no one really cared about those that suffered from it, they made jokes at their expense.

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This guy is a Hawaii state legislature representative. Any law he would get passed only has effect in that state. He has no power to control federal legislation.

I also think its weird people are so on board with laws passed citing "internet gaming disorder" as a reason. What happens when it's a feature of games you don't hate that is regulated because of this?

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At the end of the day, not many people really care that much about players who are gaming in a way that is troublingly compulsive, anti-social, or self-destructive, so long as they are not spending money to do it.

I've occasionally said I find it worrisome that there are streamers/speedrunner who spend 4-8 hours every single day just trying to shave a few minutes or seconds off of a Zelda run, but have been told that I'm being too judgmental and it doesn't matter what they do so long as they're having fun. On some level though, fulfilling a compulsion is always going to bring some sense of satisfaction but I'm not sure if it genuinely qualifies as "having fun."

I would agree that using this DSM diagnosis as a justification for legislation is opening Pandora's Box.

 

[Hoo-doo]

I've said this over a million times now, it is super easy to work around that -- charge for in-game currency and charge in-game currency for lootboxes.

Easy.

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That's exactly what they've been doing since forever, right?

 

[Expy]

That's exactly what they've been doing since forever, right?

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You can directly buy lootboxes in certain games -- this law would effectively only prohibit purchasing 'chance' directly. It's way too easy to circumvent, which is why this 'law' is lawlful.

 

[Demacabre]

Fantastic news. The industry refused to do anything themselves and let companies like EA, 2K, Activision, and others run amuck, this is what happens. Bear in mind, many politicians called for the industry to sort it out themselves previous to this. They really have no one to blame but themselves. And for the people pulling out literal definitions and playing obtuse semantical games with it, looks like gambling will get an new addendum to the literal word.

I am not saying pubs and devs should not monetize their games. They should monetize their games with direct sales that don't rely on luck or chance at all. You want a skin, weapon, expansions - here is the exact cost. Buy it.

 

[Knight in Shining Armani]

EA wanted that worst company award badly this year.