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Punchline

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Oct 25, 2017
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Woah there. Now that's a ballsy title.

Originally when I watched Top Gun: Maverick, I thought it was a solid movie that had at least did not glorify the trauma of the United States Military complex and had a somewhat fantastical mission statement that at least gives it a lot more heart and tension than the original movie. Compared to a lot of movies coming out at the same time, it was solidly produced and had great visuals and the story flowed to a working formula. It was a fine summer movie.

In searching for greater context though, I found that the movie had been financed by the United States military. This is not new- hundreds of movies (including Marvel movies) are partially financed by the military because getting the real stuff is expensive otherwise. However, this comes at more than just giving film makers tanks, helicopters, guns, planes... it also comes with the fact the United States military gets to write some of the movie. The practice began with John Wayne's The Green Berets and has only grown to become a bigger, more insidious force within the entertainment complex.

I fell for propaganda.

Originally I wanted to post about an article from the LA Times detailing this kind of involvement. However, as I dug deeper, I found that this particular movie has a lot more insidious ways of hiding how it's propaganda. I'd like to detail the main points, which I'll give you in summary:
  1. Who are they fighting in Top Gun: Maverick? It's Iran. The film goes out its way to obfuscate it, but this is the closest parallel under the layers and layers of masking it. It is literal historical revisionism of the Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action (JCPOA).
  2. How is the film fascist propaganda? A key feature of fascist propaganda is to portray the enemy as both simultaneously all-powerful and extremely weak. The film does through this through the plot point that the United States military has to use outdated technology because it's the only thing that will work in this hyper-specific scenario.
  3. Why this context is important. I'd like people to be more aware of all these things because I've seen a lot of uncritical praise for it. I'd like people to have these facts in mind while talking about it, because entertainment is influential. The military wouldn't sink money into something like this otherwise.
Who are they fighting in Top Gun: Maverick?
So let's talk about this. This is probably the biggest question the movie both has and doesn't want you to think about. I asked around, and I got a lot of jokey answers from people who liked the movie such as the following:
  • "The bad guys"
  • "Gs" (gradational forces)
  • "Cobra" (the bad guys from GI Joe)
  • "The dreck we've tolerated as blockbusters the past 15 years"
  • "Danger itself"
  • "Erusea" (a fictional country from the Ace Combat series that acts as the antagonists)
Another article from the LA Times labeled a couple more realistic candidates.
The most obvious contenders at first glance would seem to be Russia or China. The Russian and Chinese military each operate fifth-generation aircraft — indeed, the enemy aircraft in the film appear to be based on Russian Su-57 stealth fighter jets — and the snowy, jagged topography where the uranium-enrichment facility is located could conceivably be found in one of those countries.

What about North Korea or Iran? Both countries are considered rogue states by the U.S. Both have snow-capped mountain ranges and nuclear ambitions that America and its allies are determined to try to contain. But neither country has operational fifth-generation fighter jets. (Iran announced the development of its own stealth IAIO Qaher-313 in 2013, but independent military experts have expressed doubts about the viability of the aircraft.)

Why am I so insistent on it being Iran? They never say it is. The details don't quite line up. That because they don't really line up in real life either. The JCPOA was something we pulled out of under President Trump in 2018. If this really happened in real life, this would have started World War 3 and Iran would be in their right to. Iran continued to follow it for a year even though they no longer had to because we were no longer following it either. Tom Cruise's character does a unconstitutional act without congressional approval. The "bad guys" violate a treaty that we pulled out from in real life, and Iran is already one of the better candidates as outlined by LA Times. Given that the United States military absolutely had access to the script and creative control... yeah.

Did I mention Iran loves F-14s too?

How is the film fascist propaganda?
Top Gun: Maverick is a movie about not questioning your decisions. Just act. Don't think.

At first I thought it was particularly strange how tailor-made the mission was for a very specific scenario where they have to use older planes to bomb a nuclear facility, but it makes a lot more sense when you realize how fascist propaganda works. The enemy is both all-powerful- and weak at the same time. The enemy has superior fire-power yet Tom Cruise can hide behind a log while a .50 caliber machine gun blasts it- they're designed to penetrate armored trucks.

There are creative liberties in everything. I don't particularly care for the accuracy of everything for the service of a story. On the face of it, Top Gun: Maverick's main mission statement is to get everyone home, to break at a generation of trauma. However, the situation depicted in the movie, which we've already outlined has eerie parallels with the JCPOA situation- it sure seems like revisionism by the people who have direct and final say over the script.

Does everyone involved know? Probably not. But the final product is a product of the military. You shouldn't take it uncritically.

Why the context matters.

When I originally saw the movie, I knew none of this. I knew absolutely none of it. I'm not judging anyone who thinks this is a perfect movie because chances are they don't know either- or if they do, well, it doesn't matter to them. However it is important to point something like this because entertainment is influential. How many times have you related something else to a piece of media you've played or seen? It happens a lot even in real life conversations with loved ones or strangers.

Why else would there be a department in the military tailored for this specific purpose? It's a recruitment tool. They're putting military ads at the start of this movie. Lockheed Martin is using it to advertise themselves. Some people see no problem with this, but when the military revises its own history to justify actions that go against greater peace in the world, you should be concerned.

There's a lot of uncritical praise for this movie I've seen around. I've changed my view on it a lot since seeing it. There are underlying things to like about the movie that don't really have anything to do with any of this- but even then I find myself disgusted with how easy it was to write it off as a pretty good summer blockbuster and didn't even question why the film didn't want me to know who they were really fighting.

Iran is already a vastly misunderstood situation by most Americans. Even if the film isn't openly about them, it's still important to understand that this movie will probably be brought up in discussions around them and contribute to that misunderstanding. I fell for it. I want people to come into the movie understanding all of this when they watch it. We have to untangle this from the media we watch or we become supporters of fascism without even realizing it.
 

entremet

You wouldn't toast a NES cartridge
Member
Oct 26, 2017
66,106
It was a fun movie, but yeah, it was pretty much US imperialistic propaganda. No qualms there.
 

B-Dubs

That's some catch, that catch-22
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Oct 25, 2017
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You really have no goddamned idea what fascism even is.
 

entremet

You wouldn't toast a NES cartridge
Member
Oct 26, 2017
66,106
I love how they decided not to mention the country lol.

Foreign policy sure has changed since the 80s.
 

hobblygobbly

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Oct 25, 2017
8,165
NORDFRIESLAND, DEUTSCHLAND
lmao at "The dreck we've tolerated as blockbusters the past 15 years"

hollywood has been portraying everyone except USA as the "enemy" for 70+ years

also nothing about the movie is "fascism", it's a generic war movie, a fun one at that and rather harmless, but it's not fascism. and by harmless I mean it's actually pretty light on american patriotism/nationalism (and i say this as non-american) relative to other films. especially when you look at films like american sniper and so many that glorify american nationalism
 

Freezasaurus

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Oct 25, 2017
57,992
How was the movie financed by the military? I read that they had to rent those jets at like $12,000/hr.
 
Oct 25, 2017
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era member sharing their very loose definition of fascism again because something gave them bad vibes

reset the clock.

military propaganda/general patriotic wankery? sure, but that doesn't automatically equal fascism.
 

dapperbandit

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,162
Identifying the bad guys would have lumbered the plot with some Tom Clancy style set up of geopolitical context and machinations and all the baggage wrapped up in that... it really isn't important to the story that's being told and I think it's a refreshingly straightforward way of handling it.

The fascism comparison only fits with that very specific notion of all powerful and simultaneously weak enemies, beyond that it's a bit of a reach.
 

Kain

Unshakable Resolve - One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
8,387
Well yeah like the first one, the Navy was all over the production. Still a fun movie
 

L Thammy

Spacenoid
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Oct 25, 2017
52,041
In searching for greater context though, I found that the movie had been financed by the United States military.
I don't mean this as a criticism of your point, but I'm honestly a little surprised that it took this long for you to find that out. The connection the original movie had with the military was pretty famous and not at all hidden; they blatantly used it as a recruiting tool.

en.wikipedia.org

Top Gun - Wikipedia

 

Deleted member 4461

User Requested Account Deletion
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Oct 25, 2017
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I think everyone assumed it was military propaganda. Was that surprising to you?

Fascism is another question.
 

Avitus

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Oct 25, 2017
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It's a generic war movie that goes out of its way to not name the enemy.

I really doubt anyone is this critical of the media they consume. It would be exhausting if this movie of all things trips you up beyond the obvious need for the DoD to help with production.
 

Lump

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,295
Technically every movie that features the US Military in some official capacity is propaganda because the US Military puts out explicit guidelines to follow since their interest is recruitment.

www.latimes.com

The U.S. military's Hollywood connection

The U.S. military's Hollywood connection
 

B-Dubs

That's some catch, that catch-22
General Manager
Oct 25, 2017
35,822
I changed the title because the original one was inflammatory and blatantly wrong. OP needs to learn what fascism actually is.
 

GungHo

Member
Nov 27, 2017
6,799
They didn't name the enemy country in the original either
Details schmetails.

I don't mean this as a criticism of your point, but I'm honestly a little surprised that it took this long for you to find that out. The connection the original movie had with the military was pretty famous and not at all hidden; they blatantly used it as a recruiting tool.
You mean they couldn't just rent some F-18 Super Hornets from Bob's Hornets in Las Vegas?
 

Pancho

Avenger
Nov 7, 2017
2,011
Is it propaganda? Obviously
Was it fun? Hell yeah it was
Not like I suddenly feel a patriotic duty to enlist lmao
 

Arc

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
4,720
No one argues against it being propaganda. Not sure if your definition of fascism is right, however.

Awesome movie though.
 

KingM

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,677
Any big movie using military assets from Top Gun to Marvel movies is basically a two hour recruitment film.
 

RoninChaos

Member
Oct 26, 2017
8,743
I don't think you know the definition of fascism. And in the first sentence you jerk yourself off about how ballsy your title is. How edgy.

*edit* And you made a banner. You clown.
 
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Maolfunction

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,886
I appreciate trying to look under the hood here, but there's really no evidence the US military used this movie as a vehicle to rewrite history in its favor. No one is going to point to Top Gun: Maverick as evidence of anything. It's military propaganda, like the first one was. Expect Navy recruiters to use clips from the film for the next few years. Be critical of that aspect, you don't need to search for more reasons than that.
 

Firmus_Anguis

AVALANCHE
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Oct 30, 2017
7,037
I prefer they not name a specific 'enemy', as that might contribute to stigmatisation.

It's as you say - Entertainment certainly has influence. By clearly outlining who the 'bad guys' are, I think you might contribute to dangerous stereotypes.

So yes, while it's certainly propaganda in many ways, I still vastly prefer the way they handled 'the enemy' in this one.
 
Oct 27, 2017
984
Not denying its military funded propaganda, but fascist? Not really seeing this. The simultaneously weak and strong point is not enough for something to be fascist, and I don't remember there being any argument that this country was weak anyway?
 

Blader

Member
Oct 27, 2017
27,111
At first I thought it was particularly strange how tailor-made the mission was for a very specific scenario where they have to use older planes to bomb a nuclear facility, but it makes a lot more sense when you realize how fascist propaganda works.
it's because the Navy wouldn't let them use anything newer than F-18s.

I don't know shit about the strengths of one particular Navy jet over another, but those who do seem to think that, even within the contrived parameters of the movie's mission, an F-35 still could've done the job. They use older planes, specifically F-18s, because that was a constraint the Navy placed on the movie. And then they use an F-14 as a callback to the first film.
 

Keldroc

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Oct 27, 2017
12,670
It's definitely propaganda-adjacent and a handy recruiting tool, but there is no "fascism" in either Top Gun. All you've done is show you don't know what that word means.

Also for all the guidelines they have to follow when the military is involved in a production, it's astounding to me that they were able to portray the Navy as so incompetent in this film. An entire squadron of Top Gun top graduates gets their asses handed to them repeatedly by an old man who hasn't flown combat in how long? All in one day as he flies multiple sorties? You know how fucking exhausted he'd be after even two of those? What good is Top Gun, then? How bad are their fellow Top Gun graduates who scored less than they did? Maverick somehow steals an F-18 to demonstrate the run is possible? Completely absurd, at least five people would have to sign off on that; that's some Iron Eagle 1 bullshit. The chain of command is just constantly shown to be helpless in the face of this one rogue pilot who's just "too good to deny." The Navy, particularly the brass, looks like chumps in this movie in a way they absolutely did not in the 1986 film. I don't have a problem with that, I find it entertaining, and I loved the movie overall, but it's amazing they didn't refuse some of the story choices in the film.
 
Oct 27, 2017
6,800
Yeah I don't think it was a coincidence that my theatre's parking lot was loaded with big trucks and jeeps decked out in patriotic military and police stickers.
 

Swiggins

was promised a tag
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Apr 10, 2018
12,026
Military propaganda, absolutely, there's zero doubt.

Fascism is a BIG reach though...
 
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