meowdi gras

Member
Feb 24, 2018
12,679
Companies re-release doctored, censored and otherwise cut up versions of movies all the time. Some times it's an accident, like HboMax uploading the pg-13 cut of Birds of Prey, but generally speaking, full episodes of television do get removed from digital distribution for their content (think Always Sunny and its episodes containing blackface.) I'm fine with that, they aren't doing reruns of racist Superman cartoons these days either and streaming platforms aren't an archive. If you want full access to shows, you definitely can't rely on digital services. I think conflating this concern as being "from the right" is especially reductive. What if similar policies extended to critiques of political figures or, as you see on TikTok, created insulting rhetorical workarounds like "unalived" that cheapen the material

At any rate, there was a very menacing patent filed a few years back about digitally inserting ads into old movies. It's just a patent but in the race to monetization, would you be at all surprised if they tried implementing this?
The poster I replied to was not talking about that. They specifically cited "collusion between media companies and governments to erase and/alter the past by erasing/altering works", which implies political censorship. That's not happening in this country with older works, as they (and right-wing ragebait personalities) have suggested, nor will it. (Unless, of course, a fascist government comes to power, then it likely will.)
 
Feb 9, 2018
3,043
I've long been an advocate for physical media. Back in the late 00s, I started to become skeptical of digital downloads. Stories like this where digital downloads were simply remotely deleted from people's devices for various reasons aren't anything new, either. This is a problem going back 15 years or more, and was likely the origins of my original skepticism of digital distribution. My skepticism grew even further after I lost my Halo 2 DLC not too long after the original Xbox Live servers were shut down back in 2010. For reasons unknown, the DLC maps had been erased from my hard drive (I did have my 360 sent off for repairs). Fortunately there was a physical option.I did download a few XBLA games onto my 360 and a few Virtual Console & WiiWare games on my Wii, back in the 00s but ever since the Halo 2 DLC incident, I've been very sparing when it comes to spending money on digital content.

I've never downloaded a full-price game before except for Pikmin 3, which I got for free back when Nintendo had that free digital game with the purchase of Mario Kart 8 promotion back in 2014. But from 2011 to present, the most I've ever gotten digitally (aside from some free games I got through Games with Gold) was a handful of VC games on the Wii U & 3DS, as well as Blaster Master Zero on the Switch back at its launch in 2017. That means it's been almost seven years since I purchased any game digitally. Meanwhile, I have over 70 games between the Xbox One, Xbox Series X, PS4, PS5, Wii U, and Switch on physical.

I've never downloaded an mp3 before and I've never downloaded a movie before. I only recently got a streaming music subscription, but only as a replacement for radio whenever I'm driving around (the only radio station I listened to started to have bad reception). But I still buy music and movies physically. I currently have about 130 CDs as well as over 100 movies on Blu-ray.

I've been hurting for money recently after taking on a large amount of debt after having to replace my TV and most of my appliances (everything except the laundry machines failed within a six-month period), but I'm about to have that all paid off, and I plan to start collecting more than I have over the past couple of years. My collection would be a lot larger now if I had the money, but I can't exactly splurge on a routine basis when most of what would be my discretionary income has instead been going to credit card payments.


Years back I bought a new copy of Blur, the 2010 racing game, for PC. The physical copy. I left in the box for a long time. Too long, it turns out. When I first tried to play it, I found the activation servers had been taken offline and my activation code would no longer work to let me play the game. I contacted Activision support for guidance and they told me I was SOL.

Ultimately I pulled a crack down and was able to play. But I make this point because it is not only digital media that is at-risk of being revoked. It's any form of media with digital rights management. Your physical objects are no safer as long as the product is tied to a license or gated behind digital access.
PC software has long been a different beast from console games. It was the one thing that was always exempted from the first-sale doctrine, for example. It should be subjected to the first-sale doctrine, and DRM shouldn't restrict a person's ability to use what they paid for, but it was still never treated the same as physical console games from a legal standpoint.
 

nanhacott

Technical artist
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
458
Years I ago I chuckled all my CD cases, but kept the actual liner notes and put all the CDs on spindles. They take up a super small amount of space. I did the same with most of my software / PC games / magazine disks / shovelware CDs. My DVDs went into a giant binder. I've thrown out / sold very little, but almost everything fits in a single box.

The only pieces of media that I kept in their original cases are console games, and anything that didn't come in a generic case (like special edition DVDs, and a handful of boxed PC games that are extra special to me / came with feelies).
 

Xiofire

Prophet of Regret
Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,396
This is all just making me want to invest in physical versions of my favourite movies and TV shows.
 

DinosaurJerky

Member
Nov 19, 2022
910
This is one of the reasons why I never stopped buying physical media. Digital media is great for convenience or things that I don't care about owning, but I don't pay full price to buy it. If my access is dependent on a third party's server, it's no more than a rental.

I'd be surprised if there's meaningful help coming for consumers on the digital "ownership" front since that was never part of the deal even with physical media. People keep refusing to learn the lesson about going all in on the cheap or free thing - Walmart, Amazon, Facebook, streaming, etc. - regardless of the (often easily foreseeable) consequences.
 

Baha

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
937
Only thing to do is boycott Sony's film/tv digital services, they don't deserve your business if they're willing to remove purchases from your library like this.
 

Siam Shade

Member
Jun 1, 2018
567
I'm starting to add to my physical collection: vynils. I'm feeling way better about my relationship with the things I like when I can actually hold them.
 

horkrux

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,441
I only really trust my games libraries to live on. Movies, TV shows, music, so easy for those platforms to shut down, taking everything with them (or deleting stuff because of licencing issues and whatnot).
 

scitek

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,185
It sucks that disc rot is a thing, and a lot of good CD collections are inching closer to their expiration dates. Rip that shit while you can.
 

darz1

Member
Dec 18, 2017
7,414
arstechnica.com

Sony is erasing digital libraries that were supposed to be accessible “forever”

Casualties afoot as Sony merges Funimation with 2021-acquired Crunchyroll.



Forever, but there are restrictions. FOH. You know what Sonys not doing? Coming to my home and breaking or stealing my disc movies.

Be careful for the future you wish for.



View: https://twitter.com/Steven_Hyden/status/1756041198702059811?s=19


View: https://twitter.com/Steven_Hyden/status/1756042938444808200?s=19

More and more I agree with this. I regret letting my wife take my CDs to sell to half price books. I knew I made a mistake when she said the clerk told her I had some rare and unique metal albums.

And also about the difference of actually seeing the bands name, album art or song titles and being like OH DAMN I totally forgot about that song.

I used to have a great big CD collection but I got rid of them a few years back simply because I don't have any tech that can play them anymore and they were taking up space. But I really regret it for this exact reason.

I used to like going through my collection and picking out a CD that maybe I haven't listening to in a while. I also had a few that just aren't available on streaming.
 

Melody Shreds

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,974
Terminal Dogma
It sucks that disc rot is a thing, and a lot of good CD collections are inching closer to their expiration dates. Rip that shit while you can.
I've already lost some of my Dreamcast games to it :c

I still own a significant amount of metal cd's, anime dvds and blurays as well as quite a lot of physical games, though I am afraid of them going the way of some of my Dreamcast games...
 

Mengy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,184
I've already lost some of my Dreamcast games to it :c

I still own a significant amount of metal cd's, anime dvds and blurays as well as quite a lot of physical games, though I am afraid of them going the way of some of my Dreamcast games...

I haven't had any of my DC game discs fail yet, but my DC disc reader now errors out sometimes. I just open the lid and close it and then it works, for now at least, but I think my DC is on borrowed time sadly. 😔

As for my music CD's, I still keep them in a closet but I ripped them all to my hard drive (digital) long ago. What Sony is doing to the Funimation accounts is horrible, it shouldn't be legal IMHO.
 

Melody Shreds

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,974
Terminal Dogma
I haven't had any of my DC game discs fail yet, but my DC disc reader now errors out sometimes. I just open the lid and close it and then it works, for now at least, but I think my DC is on borrowed time sadly. 😔

As for my music CD's, I still keep them in a closet but I ripped them all to my hard drive (digital) long ago. What Sony is doing to the Funimation accounts is horrible, it shouldn't be legal IMHO.
Yeah it sucks, I'm losing 1 digital movie out of it which isn't much but still sucks. Unfortunately software rights are currently in the favor of the corporations and I don't see that changing any time soon, you never "own" anything digital, you own a license that can be revoked by them at any time for any reason. I guess we're bound to find out how air tight Eula's really are within the next 10 years as people begin to lose more and more digital content.
 

Violence Jack

Drive-in Mutant
Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,339
This whole streaming thing is why I'd rather spend my money creating a library in my basement of bookshelves filled with movies and games instead of subscribing to another streaming service or buying digital. The more this type of news comes out, the worse it gets.
 

Piggus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,899
Oregon
I recently rebuilt my PS1 and PS2 games collection (plus a few I never played) and now I'm trying to "prep" my PS3 by making sure any games I own that I don't want to lose are downloaded and/or fully updated, including disc-based games. The PS3 and Vita are where we're really going to see this become an issue soon, it really depends on Sony and how long the servers stay active. My PSN download list goes back to Dec. 2006 and while most is still available to redownload, some is missing and certain games that never got a disc release definitely will not make it off the platform.

For PS consoles, preservation is still manageable, but things are going to get dicey for PS4 and PS5 games down the line if what shipped on a disc isn't actually playable without a separate download.
 

MyDudeMango

Member
Jul 17, 2021
2,277
Canada

View: https://twitter.com/JohnnyFocal/status/1756343871229817251?s=19

Just saw this quote tweet.

Amazing. Having watches HP 3 a number of times they did a great job.

This definitely seems slightly misleading as the film in question was completed as a 2k Digital Intermediate, and the 4k is just upscaled from that, with no rescanning, neither as a Sony-style reconstruction nor as a Lionsgate-style superfluous filmout scan. (Though it was, iirc, a tasteful upscale, much moreso than some others.)
 

Darknight

"I'd buy that for a dollar!"
Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,385
This definitely seems slightly misleading as the film in question was completed as a 2k Digital Intermediate, and the 4k is just upscaled from that, with no rescanning, neither as a Sony-style reconstruction nor as a Lionsgate-style superfluous filmout scan. (Though it was, iirc, a tasteful upscale, much moreso than some others.)

I think you're missing the point. The digital source that they wanted to use for the master had issues and they had to resort to the original physical film to get things done. The point is the digital failed them and the physical saved them.
 

MyDudeMango

Member
Jul 17, 2021
2,277
Canada
I think you're missing the point. The digital source that they wanted to use for the master had issues and they had to resort to the original physical film to get things done. The point is the digital failed them and the physical saved them.
I'm not missing the point, I'm saying that it seems inaccurate/unlikely. The 4k is by all counts seemingly the exact same DI source as the blu-ray. It does not have the extra detail you'd get from a Sony style reconstruction, nor does it have the quirks of a Lionsgate style situation of scanning a film-out of the DI would have.

I say this as a huge proponent of physical media, mind! A better example might be how Dreamworks had to fall back on a filmout for one of the reels of Antz iirc, when their digital storage + backups of one reel of the finished/rendered movie failed. That's one instance I can recall hearing about in recent memory.
 
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Darknight

"I'd buy that for a dollar!"
Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,385
I'm not missing the point, I'm saying that it seems inaccurate/unlikely. The 4k is by all counts seemingly the exact same DI source as the blu-ray. It does not have the extra detail you'd get from a Sony style reconstruction, nor does it have the quirks of a Lionsgate style situation of scanning a film-out of the DI would have.

I say this as a huge proponent of physical media, mind! A better example might be how Dreamworks had to fall back on a filmout for one of the reels of Antz iirc, when their digital storage + backups of one reel of the finished/rendered movie failed. That's one instance I can recall hearing about in recent memory.

Saying it's wrong and didn't happen is different than what you said in your first post which is saying it was misleading. I'm taking it at face value that they had to go back to the original film and that doesn't really matter if there was a native 4K scan or a 2K DI that was upscaled. Saying they had to go back to the original film doesn't rule out that they then had to reconstruct/recomposite it with visual effects back in to a 2K DI.
 

MyDudeMango

Member
Jul 17, 2021
2,277
Canada
Saying it's wrong and didn't happen is different than what you said in your first post which is saying it was misleading. I'm taking it at face value that they had to go back to the original film and that doesn't really matter if there was a native 4K scan or a 2K DI that was upscaled. Saying they had to go back to the original film doesn't rule out that they then had to reconstruct/recomposite it with visual effects back in to a 2K DI.
Well, you certainly get what I mean by saying misleading, there's no need to get a bit pedantic over it, I said it seems misleading because I don't think it's likely to be true. I think you might be a bit confused as to what I'm saying about the whole matter as well: both effects shots and non-effects shots all look to be taken from the exact same identical source as the BD, which would the same original 2k DI prepared when the film was first produced, so I doubt that they actually went back to any physical film, whether original negative or film-out of the DI, as there's no sign of it in the transfer. Hence skepticism about it. There are confirmed cases of somewhat similar things happening mind, but I just don't think Azkaban is likely to be a case of that.
 

Netherscourge

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,743
I still have my original 10 BMG free in the mail CDs from back in the 90s, for which I just had to buy 2 new ones afterward to keep them.
 

Darknight

"I'd buy that for a dollar!"
Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,385
Well, you certainly get what I mean by saying misleading, there's no need to get a bit pedantic over it, I said it seems misleading because I don't think it's likely to be true. I think you might be a bit confused as to what I'm saying about the whole matter as well: both effects shots and non-effects shots all look to be taken from the exact same identical source as the BD, which would the same original 2k DI prepared when the film was first produced, so I doubt that they actually went back to any physical film, whether original negative or film-out of the DI, as there's no sign of it in the transfer. Hence skepticism about it. There are confirmed cases of somewhat similar things happening mind, but I just don't think Azkaban is likely to be a case of that.

No, I actually don't get what you meant by saying it's misleading because misleading implies something happened, but it's not what you think. You're saying it didn't happen at all. They're two different things and you seem to be saying they can be interchanged. You being skeptical about it ever happening doesn't make it misleading; it makes it flat out wrong, not misleading.
 

MyDudeMango

Member
Jul 17, 2021
2,277
Canada
No, I actually don't get what you meant by saying it's misleading because misleading implies something happened, but it's not what you think. You're saying it didn't happen at all. They're two different things and you seem to be saying they can be interchanged. You being skeptical about it ever happening doesn't make it misleading; it makes it flat out wrong, not misleading.
This seems like arguing for the sake of arguing over a minor quibble in choice of words at this point. Anyways, s'all good, you do get what I mean now, regardless if my wording at first was totally perfect or not. :P
 

skyappl

Member
Oct 25, 2017
303
I like streaming services for convenience and instant access to a huge array of content, but it would be a mistake to ever consider that ownership.

Oh and for the record, when it comes to actual digital purchases, it should be illegal for those to ever be taken from you.
 
OP
OP
captive

captive

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,398
Houston
This definitely seems slightly misleading as the film in question was completed as a 2k Digital Intermediate, and the 4k is just upscaled from that, with no rescanning, neither as a Sony-style reconstruction nor as a Lionsgate-style superfluous filmout scan. (Though it was, iirc, a tasteful upscale, much moreso than some others.)
You totally missed the point....



Man when installed this thread I didn't think I was going to be able to update it several times in two days.



View: https://twitter.com/TVAnswerMan/status/1757033470683988404?s=19


View: https://twitter.com/UHD4k/status/1756822306289012872?s=19
 

ruxtpin

Member
Oct 30, 2017
984
PA
I stand by those CD/DVD binders everyone used to have in their car in the late 90s. I've got 3-4 of those things stuffed with music CDs, old PC games, and console game discs. I've kept a couple of steel-books and tossed the plastic cases; I've saved so much space and I still have the physical medium.
 

megashock5

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,257
Powell, Ohio
My kids make fun of my 700+ CD collection, too - but I'm not giving them up. I even made sure to buy a car last year that still had a CD player.
A co-worker tried to sell me on Tidal, saying "they have the entire Prince library"
I already have the entire Prince library! And it's not tied to a subcription.
 

Deleted member 8831

Oct 26, 2017
6,240
I have over 550 DVD's, Blu-Rays and 4K Blu-Rays (mostly 4K Blu-Rays), and have eliminated 98% of my streaming subscriptions. I am going back to strictly physical media going forward, as I refuse to support these companies.
 
Oct 27, 2017
6,460
Good luck getting any judge or legal system to require a service that literally stopped existing continue to infinity.

If you want something even pseudo permanently, physical is your only option like it always has been.


I feel like the best solution is that if a service allows purchases, it must be required to allow for DRM-free downloads in the event it is shut down. That way someone who purchased something has the opportunity to download it and keep it themselves. At that point if they lose it, then it's on them. That way the company doesn't have to keep a service running forever, but customers also don't get screwed over.

I can't imagine any media company would ever allow for that without a fight though. The closest we have is GoG.
 

Bengraven

Powered by Friendship™
Member
Oct 26, 2017
30,911
Florida
I really miss my CD collection. I admit that I lost it because of my irresponsibility, a lot of my cases broke during my many many moves over the years, and the CD slipped out and got heavily, scratched or covered in dust from whatever was in the box. I still have a couple dozen left and I think the only ones that are still intact on my final fantasy collections.
 
Oct 25, 2017
15,070
Anything I care about is bought physical. Digital media is a corporate scheme to keep the flow of value moving in a single direction and lower distribution costs while the buyer receives nothing of tangible worth from the transaction and with no guarantee of continued access.

It's funny that as Crunchyroll absorbs Funimation, when asked about purchases carrying over, they say "lol naw, pay me." And yet when I followed the instructions to login to Crunchyroll using my Funimation account to transfer the account details over, my brand new Crunchyroll account shows Funimation purchases in my CR watch history, with a timestamp of where I left off on Funimation. But when I click on it, of course it asks me to subscribe. So it seems to me that the infrastructure is already at least partially there to transfer purchases, but they ...don't want to. That all digital future!
 

Tedmilk

Avenger
Nov 13, 2017
1,969
This is why I still have my old CDs in the garage, and a burgeoning vinyl collection. We have Emby running on a NAS in our living room and have both our music libraries and shared TV and movie libraries on there. Remote backup plan is costly, but I'd rather pay for that than spend the money on subscriptions that can yank/censor whatever they want whenever they want.

My partner is subscribed to one of the last physical rental by post services for Bluray/DVD. When we get two in the post they get ripped to the NAS to watch (and keep, if we enjoyed them enough).

Finally, I've made sure our media library is platform agnostic, so if there was a need I could ditch Emby and move to a competitor (but it's pretty great for now).

Anyone who has any level of trust in ANY company is crazy naive IMO.
 

PAFenix

Unshakable Resolve
Member
Nov 21, 2019
16,667
Is this the reason DragonBall, DBZ, Kai and GT are finally being added to Crunchyroll?

No, the reason those took so long has been that Crunchy/Funi simply dragged their asses to get it transferred over. It took forever to get One Piece over. Back when the merger was first announced and they were EXTREMELY gradual about the transfers, someone on Twitter (or maybe it was their forums) asked why things were taking so long, or only coming over in pieces and someone who used to work in the rank/file of the company said that management had No Plans in regards to moving everything.

I.E. The decision was sprung on everyone and there was no plan set up or meetings to discuss how or when they were going to transfer everything or any sort of time table. It was just suddenly "we're doing this now".
 

Sabercrusader

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,262
I'm fine with streaming services since they don't give the illusion of ownership. The random censorship and changes can be irritating but since I feel I'm just paying a small fee for access to thousands of shows/movies, it doesn't bother me all that much.

I admit though that in terms of games, I've become lazy and opted more for digital, and I've had some nightmares about if my account were to go belly up for any reason how much I'd lose. There's definite cons to digital "ownership" that probably really need to be addressed given situations like this. I feel for those who are losing out on libraries of their media due to this.