Tim Sweeney: Epic Games will cover future refunds and work with other stores to ensure key availability for crowdfunded games that go Epic exclusive

[vestan]

I feel this was worth making its own thread over as it has kind of been buried deep in the whole Shenmue III Kickstarter debacle thread despite being some pretty important piece of news. A lot of people kind of vowed against Kickstarting games, especially PC ones after Epic secured exclusivity for Shenmue III but I think the solution Sweeney proposes here is somewhat sound. Fortnite money is definitely at play here. What do you think, Era?



If the tweet isn't loading for you, here's what it says:

Epic is funding the cost of all Kickstarter refunds resulting from Shenmue III's move to the Epic Games store, so that refunds won't reduce Ys Net's development funding.

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When future games go Epic-exclusive after offering crowdfunding rewards on other PC stores, we'll either coordinate with colleagues at the other stores to ensure key availability in advance, or guarantee refunds at announcement time.

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[Foffy]

Always curious that they seem to moneyhat a lot of crowdfunded games. Do they find those ones that they can exploit by promising more money than the visible amount they've got in their crowdfunding campaigns?

 

[Saucycarpdog]

Epic seems to just throw money at any problem that comes along.

 

[Ikuu]

Sounds like there's going to be more games I'm skipping in the future.

 

[Hektor]

The solution isn't sound at all and he can go fuck himself.

Refunds are not an acceptable solution because kickstarter isn't like a fucking preorder.
Whenever i kickstart something, i take an inherent *RISK* that the game might never release or turns out trash, and this risk is then being rewarded by throwing the money back into my face once the game is finished and they shopped it around at Epic like i'm some interest free loan? Fuck that noise.

If he wants to make this a systematical habit than they and the devs should start paying a fucking interest to their backers.

 

[Deleted member 3196]

This makes me even less likely to crowdfund games on PC going forward. Why should I give developers a free loan to create a prototype for Epic to snap up at a later date?

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Or you could avoid the whole situation by not doing this anymore Tim. Please? Tim? Are you listening?

 

[Deleted member 4609]

Refunds years after the fact without delivering what they promised are an interest-free loan, and I'm not a bank. At this point I'd only trust Larian for Divinity 3, and they don't seem to need it, so until this stops I'm good.

 

[Deleted member 32374]

Epic seems to just throw money at any problem that comes along.

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That's the power of "Fuck you" money and hey, maybe customers will get something out of this. Good on them to pay for refunds.

 

[ghibli99]

So what's the deal again with Shenmue 3 and Steam? No keys for backers at launch? Epic foots the bill for refunds either way it sounds like.

 

[Deleted member 8593]

Ah, using Kickstarter for interest-free loans, I get it.

 

[Lump]

That Fortnite money being used to plug any and every hole in the ship. Whew that must be some good change.

 

[Shryke]

Yeah just makes me continue not to support any crowd-funding games.

 

[Harlequin]

That doesn't sound unreasonable, though I feel like they really should've had this in place from the start. I mean, they should've anticipated that this situation would result in a good amount of outrage. Then again, much as I don't fancy myself an Epic Store hater, unpreparedness seems to be a bit of a theme with most things going on around it so I guess I shouldn't be surprised that they didn't.

 

[Hektor]

Literally why should i fucking back a game if the worst case is me losing the money to a never finished project like project phoenix or unsung story and the best case is me getting a refund after they sold for epic exclusvity like Shenmue, Outer Wilds and Phoenix Point did? Where is the "win" scenario there? Why shoukld i accept this scenario?

 

[Rosebud]

Literally why should i fucking back a game if the worst case is me losing the money to a never finished project like project phoenix or unsung story and the best case is me getting a refund after they sold for epic exclusvity like Shenmue, Outer Wilds and Phoenix Point did? Where is the "win" scenario there? Why shoukld i accept this scenario?

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Yeah, I'm not using KS anymore.

 

[MJForum Poster]

Ah, using Kickstarter for interest-free loans, I get it.

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Kickstarter is not a preorder system despite what many people think. A developer can take your money for a game and then fold a year later and you have no recourse.

Everyone should be grateful for a refund no matter where it's coming from, they are under no obligation to provide one.

 

[starpower]

so more crowd funded games are getting snatched up and people's trust in backing these things is still being corrupted

 

[Shogun]

Or they could not go after games that have been heavily subsidised by fans because it's a bullshit practise that ultimately fucks people over. You shouldn't have to think about whether Epic are going to offer you a refund when funding a game you like the look of.

 

[Htown]

Cool, now kickstarted games are encouraged to go Epic exclusive no matter what, as they don't even have to worry about refunds to angry customers.

It's actually amazing the negative impact the Epic store has had on the PC gaming market in such a short time.

 

[Duxxy3]

All dollars no sense.

 

[Weebos]

It's a nice gesture, but doesn't really solve the root issue. I imagine (savvy) Kickstarters going forward will be much more ambiguous about their PC platform.

 

[Harlequin]

Literally why should i fucking back a game if the worst case is me losing the money to a never finished project like project phoenix or unsung story and the best case is me getting a refund after they sold for epic exclusvity like Shenmue, Outer Wilds and Phoenix Point did? Where is the "win" scenario there? Why shoukld i accept this scenario?

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A project that is completed but ends up looking so mediocre that Epic doesn't consider it worthy of being an exclusive on their store?

 

[Rebel1]

Epic seems to just throw money at any problem that comes along.

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[modoversus]

Seems like Shenmue was a learning experience. Good to see they will offer refunds to those who don't want another launcher to get their PC game. I wonder how they will coordinate with the other stores the next time.

 

[Ionic]

Back in the day when Kickstarter games were taking off it was being seen as a way for devs to bypass publishers and get games the people truly wanted to finally happen without corporate meddling. More and more it's become an interest free loan for developers to make a prototype and gain an audience they can sell back to a publisher. It's absurd.

 

[BeI]

Always curious that they seem to moneyhat a lot of crowdfunded games. Do they find those ones that they can exploit by promising more money than the visible amount they've got in their crowdfunding campaigns?

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I think they just go for ones that seem to have lots of people showing an interest. If they buy the game's exclusivity, they are literally buying customers for their store because the codes being given out for the kickstarter will only be usable on their store, so the customer has no choice (although it seems now a small amount of people might be able to get promised Steam keys, eventually).

 

[Catshade]

That's a long way from "we won't have a Metro Exodus situation again, we promise." It's been what, six months?

 

[Hektor]

Everyone should be grateful for a refund no matter where it's coming from, they are under no obligation to provide one.

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And this mindset is precisely what will kill crowdfuning, an entire business model that's entirely built around consumer trust and goowill.

A project that is completed but ends up looking so mediocre that Epic doesn't consider it worthy of being an exclusive on their store?

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I know you're joking, but that's seriously the best case i suppose lol.

 

[dex3108]

He is basically promising something he knows they can't deliver. If game is not sold on Steam, you are not getting Steam keys until it is on the store period. There is nothing to work out.

 

[CobaltBlu]

Getting a refund months or years after helping to successfully fund a game's development isn't a good deal.

 

[KingPat]

Good for the devs I guess. I'll gladly take my refund from epic. But I do find it funny that they think others will actually back games after bullshit like this. More power to them I suppose.

 

[disparate]

good lord, this dude sucks at ecommerce

 

[cyba89]

Well I won't crowdfund games anymore then.

Wonder what Kickstarter thinks about Epic abusing their platform like that.

 

[Deleted member 8593]

Kickstarter is not a preorder system despite what many people think. A developer can take your money for a game and then fold a year later and you have no recourse.

Everyone should be grateful for a refund no matter where it's coming from, they are under no obligation to provide one.

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Haha, no.

 

[HockeyBird]

Wouldn't the best solution be to just give Steam keys to backers and give it to them on Day 1? The best outcome for the developers is that they get the money AND people are playing their games.

 

[Harlequin]

It's a nice gesture, but doesn't really solve the root issue. I imagine (savvy) Kickstarters going forward will be much more ambiguous about their PC platform.

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Honestly, the best way to handle it is to just be upfront about it from the day you launch. Either tell backers that you won't, under any circumstances, accept a hypothetical Epic deal in the future and actually keep that promise or tell them that you probably will accept a deal if it's offered to you and, thus, cannot promise that Steam keys will be delivered at release.

 

[Hucast]

What a clown

 

[Grand Galvantula]

How about you just fuck off instead and not poach any more games, eh Tim?

 

[Dust]

When future games go Epic-exclusive

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[dex3108]

Wouldn't the best solution be to just give Steam keys to backers and give it to them on Day 1? The best outcome for the developers is that they get the money AND people are playing their games.

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If game is not sold on Steam you don't get keys. That is why his promise that they will work with other stores is BS. There are no other stores that provide keys except Steam.

 

[Hamchan]

Even less reason to trust kickstarters now that we know there's even more incentive to betray their backers and get the refunds financially covered by Epic.

 

[KingPat]

Wouldn't the best solution be to just give Steam keys to backers and give it to them on Day 1? The best outcome for the developers is that they get the money AND people are playing their games.

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One would think that but the email they sent backers today said that can't happen but it'll be on steam in Nov 2020

 

[DigitalScars]

Refunds are not an acceptable solution because kickstarter isn't like a fucking preorder.
Whenever i kickstart something, i take an inherent *RISK* that the game might never release or turns out trash, and this risk is then being rewarded by throwing the money back into my face once the game is finished and they shopped it around at Epic like i'm some interest free loan?

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Exactly this. I already wasn't gonna kickstart any more games but this tweet from Tim cements it for me. It sounds like there's gonna be much more moneyhatting to come.

Guess i'll actually get through my backlog of games now.

 

[Dr. Ludwig]

Um excuse me Timmy Fuckface, just a question. Why would Valve ever coordinate with you to deliberately screw them over and their customers? In what dimension will they ever help you out and what's stopping them from giving you the silent brick wall treatment again?

 

[Deleted member 48897]

The amendment, I suppose, to the golden rule is that if you're not the one in charge of the project, you're not the one in charge of the project

but then I'm the guy who thought Mighty Number 9 actually looked better than I expected given its earliest previews

 

[Everybody Lies]

Why doesn't Timmy Tencent fund them himself and cut out the middleman?

 

[Thrill_house]

Yeah, figures. Not throwing money at a kickstarter for a good minute. With how much money this shit heel is throwing out, most hungry devs will say "Nah guys we wont be exclusive!" during the drive for funds, then see that sweet pile of money and pull the "Well sorry guys, the reality of development is..." card right after.

And as the poster above me says, why not just fund your own shit if its all that?

 

[Deleted member 864]

I guess I won't be crowdfunding any future games.

 

[Lashley]

Eh, good way to kill kickstarters.