The Wrap: "Star Wars has an older, more male skewing audience than Marvel"

[Pau]

Yeah, exactly. Those kinds of stories just typically aren't as appealing to women.

Click to shrink...

I don't think there's anything about the Star Wars world that requires mostly male main, supporting, and background casts.

I think Star Wars media with more equal or female-dominated casts getting to do cool stuff (and probably led by female creators) could do well with female audiences. But it also can't just be the token girls movie/show that happens once a decade. And there's also been enough bad blood with the fandom and previous creative choices that I can see a lot of us being skeptical and not giving it the benefit of the doubt. But that has more to do with the franchise's sexist history than with women naturally not finding magic space adventures appealing.

 

[Basileus777]

The sequel trilogy being largely self-indulgent nostalgia bait didn't help grow the franchise's audience with younger people.

 

[Angelus Errare]

The former, even if the women weren't damsels in the OT, Star Wars would still be male dominated. Women just have less interest in stories like Star Wars in the first place.

Click to shrink...

If the main character was Lucia Skywalker there would be a far large female fanbase. It's male dominated because we make them male dominated not because women are predisposed to not liking the setting. There's nothing inherently "MANLY" about space or stories taking place in them. IMO in case people need that stated to them.

 

[onpoint]

Maybe stop pandering to them and write good stories with a diverse cast

 

[nyxuki]

From my experiences growing up and in the present, this holds very true. Growing up, a lot of girls found Star Wars really weird and uncool (and this was even the case in grade school, not just high school). In the present, where women are more interested in "nerdy" media, I've only met one woman that likes Star Wars. In the present, Star Wars is still viewed as very "weird" by a lot of women I've met, and it's unrelated to vocal negative fans online (which most people in general would be unaware of because it's hobby drama). In fact, I'd say many women I've spoken to view Star Wars as something "childish" to enjoy as an adult.

I've met far more women that enjoy Marvel films compared to Star Wars, that's for sure.

'Star Wars franchise is struggling to attract younger viewers'

I feel like this is true for a lot of long running franchises right now. There's plenty of other media/games that Gen Z/Alpha are getting into and these aging IPs aren't doing anything exciting enough to grab their attention away from them.

Click to shrink...

I think this is just something that happens in general tbh. As a late 90's kid, I view many older IPs such as Ghostbusters, for example as very lame. From my own experiences, Gen Z/Alpha view Star Wars as an IP that's just as lame as I view Ghostbusters. SW failed to reboot for a new generation, when it succeeded with millennials in the PT era.

Star Wars had a younger audience with the prequels, but then the sequels and TV shows have all pandered HARD towards the older OT fans and kind of left the kids, as well as now young adults who grew up with the prequels, behind.

Click to shrink...

As somebody who grew up in peak Prequel Trilogy era, I think the problem with the ST is mainly that it lacks "cool" things to latch onto. As a PT kid, we had clones, Jedi, cartoons, games and Lego to to enjoy. The ST has a problem where what can you have kids latch onto? Kylo Ren? Because that's really just it.

As for young adults who grew up with the PT, I think many of us have nostalgia for the OT, but they really have dropped the ball with PT content. I mean, it took years for EA's BF2 to even get PT characters (which arguably are more interesting and fitting for a shooter).

Doesn't help that most of the stuff Star Wars has released in the past 6 years hasn't been good in the first place which obviously won't help attract younger viewers.

Click to shrink...

I think it also doesn't help that the best Star Wars content we've received lately is:

• Jedi Survivor; which was a sequel and panned for performance issues
• Andor; something which many SW fans hail as one of the best Star Wars stories ever, was (apparently) "slow" and would be very unappealing to Gen-Z/Alpha tastes.
• Tales of The Jedi; a series that appeals heavily to fans of the PT movies, so prior knowledge is required

Mando S1/2 were very much the outliers here. That appeared to have a lot of new fan interest compared to recent SW media (especially with women from what I heard).

Much like I never gave a shit about the stuff my parents watched, my kids don't really care about the stuff I watched when I was a kid.

Trying to make franchises evergreen is a damn fool's errand but we're way past the point where the majority of producers are capable of taking risks.

Click to shrink...

I think that these days, kids don't even need to be introduced to media by their parents because of social media. Kids aren't living off of their parents VHS tapes anymore, they can find stuff organically through YouTube, TikTok etc.

 

[kowhite]

Doesn't help that most of the stuff Star Wars has released in the past 6 years hasn't been good in the first place which obviously won't help attract younger viewers.

Click to shrink...

This post is kind of weird. Generally Star Wars has been pretty well received. That you didn't like it is, let's be real, meaningless to how the franchise is doing. Your opinion is irrelevant and it's quite clearly not representative of the mainstream.

 

[JaseMath]

Hard to attract new fans when Star Wars has been mostly garbage since ~2020

 

[brinstar]

In my circle I knew a lot of women who were into the sequel movies, especially with the whole "Reylo" thing. All of that stopped hard after Rise of Skywalker. I think some of them were talking about Baby Yoda when Mandolorian came out but that's it. As soon as the D+ thing took off I haven't heard a peep about SW. No one I know is interested in it being this evergreen forever franchise.

Actually, a lot of women I know atm are currently into Dragon Ball lol. The Goku/Vegeta comedy duo thing in the new material makes for some good ship fuel, it seems.

 

[Khanimus]

When your franchise is so hell bent on centering on story threads from almost 50 years ago as opposed the forging a new path, no shit.

What new shit is there for kids to attach to that isn't meant to just be a nostalgia play for older audiences? A silver stormtrooper that doesn't do anything fucking cool ain't it. What is there for them to see when the movie is over? The closest thing to a cool videogame set in the ST era of Star Wars is that Lego game from acouple years back.

 

[kowhite]

In my circle I knew a lot of women who were into the sequel movies, especially with the whole "Reylo" thing. All of that stopped hard after Rise of Skywalker. I think some of them were talking about Baby Yoda when Mandolorian came out but that's it. As soon as the D+ thing took off I haven't heard a peep about SW. No one I know is interested in it being this evergreen forever franchise.

Actually, a lot of women I know atm are currently into Dragon Ball lol. The Goku/Vegeta comedy duo thing in the new material makes for some good ship fuel, it seems.

Click to shrink...

This is silly. I don't know a single woman who likes Dragon Ball. Most of them don't care about Star Wars. You know what that tells me? Nothing. My friend and family group doesn't tell me shit about broad demographic trends.

 

[brinstar]

This is silly. I don't know a single woman who likes Dragon Ball. Most of them don't care about Star Wars. You know what that tells me? Nothing. My friend and family group doesn't tell me shit about broad demographic trends.

Click to shrink...

why are you responding to me like I'm talking to you? What the hell is this? lmao

 

[kowhite]

why are you responding to me like I'm talking to you? What the hell is this? lmao

Click to shrink...

This is a forum. People respond to other posts. That's how this works. You shouldn't post here if you don't want people responding to you.

 

[Fj0823]

What you mean the internet's most toxic fanbaae is killing interest in it's brand through gatekeeping?

No way.

The Star Wars discourse experience is absolutely miserable

 

[kowhite]

What you mean the internet's most toxic fanbaae is killing interest in it's brand through gatekeeping?

No way.

The Star Wars discourse experience is absolutely miserable

Click to shrink...

You know I think this is overstated. Star Wars is huge. Most people who watch Star Wars…they don't engage with the fan base. Most people don't on anything entertainment related. I don't actually believe most people would have any clue what is being discussed here.

 

[NinjaLooter]

Older? Sure. Mature? Hahahaha!

 

[kowhite]

Older? Sure. Mature? Hahahaha!

Click to shrink...

Older people are by definition…mature. That's literally what it means.

 

[Aiqops]

Some franchises just aren't meant to be able to attract new young and diverse viewers forever. No matter how hard companies try to do so.

I grew up with a lot of star wars content and still don't have any energy nowadays to really consume most of it. Didn't play the new ea games, outside of Obi Wan and currently Acolyte have not watched any of the animated and live action content on D+ and don't feel any kinda pull to do so.

And the younger generation which doesn't have any nostalgia towards the ip will find even less reasons to get into it if their parents don't try to bring them in. They will spend their time on some other stuff like popular gaas games or tik tok etc. instead.

With star wars it also doesn't help that every show or movie is drenched in chud discourse all the damn time, because those idiots have to be outraged constantly.

 

[NativeTongue]

This is unsurprising. Star Wars contains little elements that women heavy franchises are generally attracted to. I'm honestly blanking on any franchise (book, movie, manga, anime, tv, etc.) that has 50/50 or majority fanbase that is centrally a power fantasy like Star Wars mostly is.

 

[Lazlow]

Not a surprise. Not everything has to be for everyone and it's not like they haven't tried to broaden the audience. Doesn't sound like it will matter anyway if the relevance is fading that quickly among younger viewers.

 

[Mekanos]

In my circle I knew a lot of women who were into the sequel movies, especially with the whole "Reylo" thing. All of that stopped hard after Rise of Skywalker. I think some of them were talking about Baby Yoda when Mandolorian came out but that's it. As soon as the D+ thing took off I haven't heard a peep about SW. No one I know is interested in it being this evergreen forever franchise.

Actually, a lot of women I know atm are currently into Dragon Ball lol. The Goku/Vegeta comedy duo thing in the new material makes for some good ship fuel, it seems.

Click to shrink...

Dragon Ball has historically had a fairly large female fanbase so that's not surprising to me. I've been in online DB communities for decades. Multiple classic DB fansites were run by women.

This is silly. I don't know a single woman who likes Dragon Ball. Most of them don't care about Star Wars. You know what that tells me? Nothing. My friend and family group doesn't tell me shit about broad demographic trends.

Click to shrink...

It tells me you don't know many women who watch anime and read manga.

 

[kowhite]

It tells me you don't know many women who watch anime and read manga.

Click to shrink...

Yes that is certainly true.

 

[brinstar]

Dragon Ball has historically had a fairly large female fanbase so that's not surprising to me. I've been in online DB communities for decades. Multiple classic DB fansites were run by women.

Click to shrink...

Yeah I've met many female fans online but in my irl social circle the women I know never really bothered with DB until the recent DBS movies and fan art from another friend. Then suddenly it was like a switch flipped and they're writing fic and making zines and fan art and stuff, it rules.

 

[Ushojax]

The quality of recent SW content has been poor and the IP is still trapped in a setting that most people have grown tired of. It's all too safe. Not surprising that it's not getting new fans, especially when all we're getting is TV shows.

SW is a film series and they need a high quality, forward-looking film to get the series back on track. Something unconnected to previous stories and settings that can avoid the fan rage that blights every SW discussion.

Unfortunately it seems like Lucasfilm is terrified to leave the familiar tropes and imagery behind, so we will be stuck with these TV shows that just fill in gaps in existing stories rather than do anything novel.

 

[Shadow of the Void]

The average Star Wars fans is 30, going on 13.

Seriously, it's the most immature and toxic fandom I've ever had the displeasure to be a part of. I've almost completely checked out of the fandom side of SW because of all the idiocy. Everything from the undeserved and inflated sense of entitlement from many fans, to the shallow CinemaSins-level nuclear-grade hot take videos flooding YouTube, to the blatant "anti-woke" right-wing culture war BS, the discourse around Star Wars has become absolutely insufferable over the past few years. I've been personally treated like shit online because I had nice things to say about the sequel trilogy. It's ridiculous.

 

[Arzak]

I don't think they chased new fans for the sequel. They went in hard for the OT fans as you can tell by the similarities.

But I also agree that Disney rushed it without planning for the future. They just were hoping to cash in on the older fans.

Click to shrink...

Making it similar to the OT strikes me as more of an appeasement of older fans rather than trying to make satisfying "exceptional" movies for an older male audience.

Still, they could have had their cake and eaten it too, had they planned ahead. Really, I think the sequel trilogy was done well in terms of it's demographic approach, even if I agree there's a lack of "cool" stuff for the bros to latch on to. That could have come later.

 

[Anya7890]

It's a complete mystery why young people might be turned off/s. Star Wars is just stuck in a hard place, they have to both attract newer viewers & please the boomers...& god forbid if the new thing isn't up to the standards of the boomers.

 

[Patapuf]

There's more to making a franchise popular with women than just making the lead female.

and the ST was still very similar to all the other Star Wars movies.


like, a woman led Rambo movie isn't going to flip that movies watching demographic much if everything else stays the same.

 

[Paroni]

Apart from things already mentioned, I think lesser amount of Star Wars games these days is playing a part. Back when I was a kid, there were constantly new Star Wars video games that were at least okay. I am pretty sure Dark Forces 2 and Rogue Squadron played a big part in making me a Star Wars fan back then in the first place, and being hyped about upcoming Star Wars games was my main way to engage with the fandom and the franchise.
Star Wars games of post-Lucasarts era have been plagued with the usual industry problems of long dev cycles, and other woes. I feel the IP really benefited from having so many above average games coming out in the 90s and the 00s.

 

[Ld007]

We know, sadly.
That's why they are trying to change it.

 

[Rosebud]

Not whatever dad and uncle have been arguing over every Thankgiving dinner like its politics.

Click to shrink...

Funny because that's how I grew up. But I got my uncle to watch Naruto so it's fine!

This is unsurprising. Star Wars contains little elements that women heavy franchises are generally attracted to. I'm honestly blanking on any franchise (book, movie, manga, anime, tv, etc.) that has 50/50 or majority fanbase that is centrally a power fantasy like Star Wars mostly is.

Click to shrink...

Lots of Shonen Jump mangas, One Piece is basically 50/50, Naruto I believe was 55% men and 45% women

 

[Otakunofuji]

Just because they're making shows based in the prequel period now doesn't mean they have the same tone and feel and appeal to kids as the prequel movies themselves did. All of these new shows are still aimed squarely at the olds.

 

[Mesoian]

That's hardly surprising. Most Marvel properties in the 80's were laughably terrible while Star Wars was still running at full steam. The MCU was what broke the culture block on Marvel stuff enmasse and that's only about 15 years old.

We know, sadly.
That's why they are trying to change it.

Click to shrink...

I mean.

I'd say if they're tryin to change it, they're doing a very bad job. Even the female lead shows are aimed squarely at the older male demographic.

 

[HStallion]

You know I think this is overstated. Star Wars is huge. Most people who watch Star Wars…they don't engage with the fan base. Most people don't on anything entertainment related. I don't actually believe most people would have any clue what is being discussed here.

Click to shrink...

That doesn't really matter when the SW fanbase has been the poster child for rampant shitty fanbases going on for decades now.

 

[SilverX]

Disney seems hellbent on making Star Wars appeal to women just by simply making all these female Jedi stories and yet I dont know one woman who has started caring about it in the near decade they have been doing this. Im not even crazy about Star Wars as a male, but I can vaguely see the charm of it at times. Its just everything about it is so mid and unremarkable outside maybe Andor so Disney fails at making a case for *anyone* to really love the series like the longtime fans do or did.

 

[NativeTongue]

Funny because that's how I grew up. But I got my uncle to watch Naruto so it's fine!


Lots of Shonen Jump mangas, One Piece is basically 50/50, Naruto I believe was 55% men and 45% women

Click to shrink...

I have never watched One Piece so I can't comment on it. I wouldn't define Naruto as a power fantasy at all though. The emotional reconnection of Naruto and Sasuke is the entire crux of the show. Naruto's strongest ability is literally talking to his opponents. There's obviously a lot of great action and I'm not trying to imply that women don't love action based shows at all.

 

[DongBeetle]

I mean, this simply isn't true. Hugely hyperbolic at best.

The Force Awakens, The Last Jedi, Rogue One, Andor, the first two seasons of the Mandalorian, Ahsoka, currently The Acolyte. None of those are "pure trash."

Even Solo is a fun if not very flawed movie.

Click to shrink...

They said most not all lol. Can we settle on half of Disney produced Star Wars stuff is pure shit?

 

[Kinthey]

Through Yahoo news we can get a look at the charts

Star Wars Has an Older, More Male-Skewing Audience Than Marvel | Charts

Three Marvel series made significant breakthroughs with female audiences: “Agent Carter,” “Jessica Jones,” and “Loki.” The post Star Wars Has an Older, More Male-Skewing Audience Than Marvel | Charts appeared first on TheWrap.

www.yahoo.com

Unfortunately not every movie is labeled but it seems like Episode IV a new hope actually had the highest female percentage of all the star wars movies.

 

[Vourlis]

So exactly what Kathleen Kennedy said.

 

[TheGamingNewsGuy]

From my experiences growing up and in the present, this holds very true. Growing up, a lot of girls found Star Wars really weird and uncool (and this was even the case in grade school, not just high school). In the present, where women are more interested in "nerdy" media, I've only met one woman that likes Star Wars. In the present, Star Wars is still viewed as very "weird" by a lot of women I've met, and it's unrelated to vocal negative fans online (which most people in general would be unaware of because it's hobby drama). In fact, I'd say many women I've spoken to view Star Wars as something "childish" to enjoy as an adult.

I've met far more women that enjoy Marvel films compared to Star Wars, that's for sure.


I think this is just something that happens in general tbh. As a late 90's kid, I view many older IPs such as Ghostbusters, for example as very lame. From my own experiences, Gen Z/Alpha view Star Wars as an IP that's just as lame as I view Ghostbusters. SW failed to reboot for a new generation, when it succeeded with millennials in the PT era.


As somebody who grew up in peak Prequel Trilogy era, I think the problem with the ST is mainly that it lacks "cool" things to latch onto. As a PT kid, we had clones, Jedi, cartoons, games and Lego to to enjoy. The ST has a problem where what can you have kids latch onto? Kylo Ren? Because that's really just it.

As for young adults who grew up with the PT, I think many of us have nostalgia for the OT, but they really have dropped the ball with PT content. I mean, it took years for EA's BF2 to even get PT characters (which arguably are more interesting and fitting for a shooter).


I think it also doesn't help that the best Star Wars content we've received lately is:

• Jedi Survivor; which was a sequel and panned for performance issues
• Andor; something which many SW fans hail as one of the best Star Wars stories ever, was (apparently) "slow" and would be very unappealing to Gen-Z/Alpha tastes.
• Tales of The Jedi; a series that appeals heavily to fans of the PT movies, so prior knowledge is required

Mando S1/2 were very much the outliers here. That appeared to have a lot of new fan interest compared to recent SW media (especially with women from what I heard).

Click to shrink...

I would put Star Wars Visions in the consideration for the best Star Wars Content we have had in years. It feels like everyone forgets about it.

 

[Hassansan]

I don't know much about Star Wars, but from the outside looking in, it always seemed to me like a white dude's thing.

Whenever I see a SW fan, they always look the same, age, gender, and race.

 

[R0987]

The only time I can think of SW managing to have some succes with a younger audience was with Mando and baby Yoga (Grogu).

 

[robotzombie]

All of these IPs operate on nostalgia, but they've been persistently force fed down our throats for a decade and a half, so they've always been in young people's lives and there's no nostalgia. It's not the thing you loved as a kid coming back, it's just the thing always there getting boring.

 

[ZeoVGM]

They said most not all lol.

Click to shrink...

I know. And thats wrong.

Can we settle on half of Disney produced Star Wars stuff is pure shit?

Click to shrink...

No, because it's not. As I literally pointed out in the post you just replied to.

 

[MadDogTannen]

Doesn't help that the only good Star Wars content since Disney bought it was Andor

 

[Lashley]

If they stopped pandering to 45 year old white dudes they might be able to grow the franchise a bit

 

[kowhite]

No, because it's not. As I literally pointed out in the post you just replied to.

Click to shrink...

Star Wars isn't the only medium this happens with, but man people really have difficulty separating their own opinion from mainstream consensus. People didnt like recent Star Wars? Good for you. You think everyone shares your opinion? It takes me 5 seconds to see that anyone who says this stuff is all terrible has no clue what the real consesnsus is.

 

[GreenMamba]

Doesn't help that the only good Star Wars content since Disney bought it was Andor

Click to shrink...

Andor skews heavily older and male per that chart Kinthey posted.

 

[Kinthey]

If they stopped pandering to 45 year old white dudes they might be able to grow the franchise a bit

Click to shrink...

What about their recent output has been pandering to specifically 45 old white males?

 

[DarthMasta]

If they stopped pandering to 45 year old white dudes they might be able to grow the franchise a bit

Click to shrink...

Except they bought the damn IP because it came with a pre-built fanbase. If you have a fanbase but then you don't try and keep it, why even buy an existing IP then?
Just make something new, something than might attract the audience you're looking for from the start, instead of trying to have your cake and eating it too.

This is assuming that you can't actually make something that can both attract a new audience and satisfy the existing audience, which I'm pretty sure you can, we just don't know how.

 

[Kagari]

The only time I can think of SW managing to have some succes with a younger audience was with Mando and baby Yoga (Grogu).

Click to shrink...

The prequel trilogy was popular with kids, and they had things like Clone Wars to follow that up.