The Verge: Microsoft still won’t say how many Xbox Ones have been sold

TheThreadsThatBindUs · May 3, 2018

Jaypah said:
I only pointed your post out because it was the most recent in a long line of posts that (factually) distilled the last gen down to 1st, 2nd and 3rd. I agree that the 35mil figure is sound and a great example of why we aren't getting those numbers. XBX is tracking behind the 360 from all that we know and without the Kinect-style boost it's only going to get worse.

The bolded wasn't what I was communicating in my post at all.

I was merely comparing the XB1 unit sales estimates with existing Switch and PS4 performance, as well as past XB360 performance, to make the point that at some point we need to look at the comparative picture being painted, when comparing with past and present console hardware sales, and redefine how we measure the XB1's sales performance.

I.e. we can't still keep saying it's performing well, when it's significantly behind the third place console of the last generation; even more so when it's current competitors are both outselling it > 2:1 globally (which indicates that it's a problem with the XB1 and not the console market).

Jaypah · May 3, 2018

TheThreadsThatBindUs said:
The bolded wasn't what I was communicating in my post at all.

I was merely comparing the XB1 unit sales estimates with existing Switch and PS4 performance, as well as past XB360 performance, to make the point that at some point we need to look at the comparative picture being painted, when comparing with past and present console hardware sales, and redefine how we measure the XB1's sales performance.

Which it seems could have been conveyed without mentioning that 360 was 3rd place as the conversation was about the XB1 sales relative to 360 only. Or so I thought. It's a drinking night for me.

melodiousmowl · May 3, 2018

VallenValiant said:
I don't mind that Xbox refuse to release numbers, but I find it rather sad that their fans try to argue that Xbox is actually stronger than Playstation because they somehow imagine it means MS is hiding good news.
Look, Sony in the PS3 days hid their numbers too, but no one then thought that was a good thing. But the current levels of denial and borderline delusion about magical growth that isn't there, just isn't healthy.

To me, it's a "who the hell cares"? kind of thing. And I dont know anyone who thinks MS is hiding "good news", they are just, rightly imo, avoiding a monthly shitshow that the press and some gamers love to use to, measure their parts or something.

Majora's Mask · May 3, 2018

I find the "We are continuing to look at engagement as our key metric" utterly hilarious.

Just say that's not how you go about business, jesus christ.

TheThreadsThatBindUs · May 3, 2018

zychi said:
https://www.statista.com/statistics/279271/net-income-of-sony-since-2008/
So you follow these sales numbers, but don't understand that 6 of the previous 10 years(outlier being 2017, due in big part because of Spider-man Homecoming and Jumanji) all of Sony's other divisions combined have had a negative net income? I'm not the one claiming the investors want to sell them, it's a google search away.

Add the fact Sony is talking about selling off their other divisions, relying on "chips" in sensors to keep them afloat, trying to sell off their divisions that don't make money, like Fox is currently doing, Kaz stepping down, I'd call it a mess.

If a business is relying on a movie to carry their other divisions net income, besides gaming, they have a problem aka a mess.
The chart I linked, thats a whole lot of negative net income for the past 10 years. Being slightly positive this year because how well Spider-man and Jumanji did is disturbing. But you say they're making money this year and aren't trying to sell their assets off, so I'll take your opinion on it over the actual numbers and see myself out of a sales thread again.

Context my friend. Context. If you'd bothered to look at all at Sony's financial statements to understand where these losses where coming from then you'd understand why your statements about their various business divisions is false.

This is a rather lazy response and does little to really support the claim that you made, since it's figures from Sony as a whole and doesn't break it down into their divisions. Clearly, I'm not going to walk you through each division's income over the past 10 years, because you're too lazy to look yourself.

Also, the onus isn't on me to do that either, since I'm not the one making unverifiable claims.

Lothars · May 3, 2018

Majora's Mask said:
I find the "We are continuing to look at engagement as our key metric" utterly hilarious.

Just say that's not how you go about business, jesus christ.

it seems to work for some posters in this thread but I agree it seems pretty useless because engagement isn't a helpful or useful stat.

Jaypah · May 3, 2018

Majora's Mask said:
I find the "We are continuing to look at engagement as our key metric" utterly hilarious.

Just say that's not how you go about business, jesus christ.

But that is their key metric, apparently company-wide. What you may prefer it if they added, "But engagement would be higher if we sold more, which we aren't" but that's probably not going to happen.

TheThreadsThatBindUs · May 3, 2018

Jaypah said:
Which it seems could have been conveyed without mentioning that 360 was 3rd place as the conversation was about the XB1 sales relative to 360 only. Or so I thought. It's a drinking night for me.

Why does it matter whether I mentioned that or not?

It neither changes the meaning nor should it alter the interpretation of my post or its intent.

Robert81 · May 3, 2018

Why do people say Xbox is behind Nintendo. Did Nintendo sell 40 million systems all ready?

BillyMays · May 3, 2018

zychi said:
I always buy Nintendo, theyre always profitable regardless what the other console makers do. Even WiiU was profitable for them.

Sony runs the rest of the world compared to MS.

MS could outsell both in the US, and theyd still have lower sales numbers total for the world.

I dont care about sales numbers because they dont matter when two companies sales destroy Microsoft worldwide. Its a dumb internet fight between fans usually.

Xbox is funded by a billion dollar company.

Sony is a mess besides their gaming division.

Nintendo is gonna do whatever they want and sell because they have Mario, Zelda and Pokemon.

So i ask again, dont these companies have a responsibility to shareholders to share sales numbers? Why would anyone invest in a company that hides their sales numbers?

Console warrior trying to be pretend to not be a console warrior.. hahahahahahahahahaha

Maybe you should educate yourself next time before pulling things out of your ass.

https://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/IR/library/presen/er/17q4_sonypre.pdf

Jaypah · May 3, 2018

TheThreadsThatBindUs said:
Why does it matter whether I mentioned that or not?

It neither changes the meaning nor should it alter the interpretation of my post or its intent.

Because their place in the gen came up despite that not being the point being made. Which is why I said that consumers tend to boil things down to 1st, 2nd and 3rd. Mind that I meant no malice nor do I think you did. I honestly didn't expect much back and forth for pointing out something that just happened so I'd like to end this line of discussion after whatever your follow up is.

Robert81 said:
Why do people say Xbox is behind Nintendo. Did Nintendo sell 40 million systems all ready?

No, but they are tracking ahead of XBX at this point in its life and if sales hold remotely steady it's inevitable.

darkwing · May 3, 2018

Robert81 said:
Why do people say Xbox is behind Nintendo. Did Nintendo sell 40 million systems all ready?

without numbers, this might be true

TLZ · May 3, 2018

"No longer" until at some point their Xbox is #1 again and selling like hotcake.

They will post whatever benefits them the most.

Majora's Mask · May 3, 2018

Jaypah said:
But that is their key metric, apparently company-wide. What you may prefer it if they added, "But engagement would be higher if we sold more, which we aren't" but that's probably not going to happen.

Not that I don't believe you, but do we have any sort of proof that this is a key metric throughout all MS?

I seriously doubt it. More so because it's a pretty useless metric if you are also not tracking and trending other key performance indicators, like hardware sold.

That's my 2 cents.

zychi · May 3, 2018

BillyMays said:
Console warrior trying to be pretend to not be a console warrior.. hahahahahahahahahaha

Maybe you should educate yourself next time before pulling things out of your ass.

https://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/IR/library/presen/er/17q4_sonypre.pdf

You should probably try harder and read up to the current page before being a dick. Maybe get yourself an avatar. If I'm a console warrior, it sure as shit isn't against Sony.

TheThreadsThatBindUs, you can literally scroll down on the page I linked and see their divisions lol

Way to prove my point that sales dont matter except to consolewars in these threads you two.

Jaypah · May 3, 2018

Majora's Mask said:
Not that I don't believe you, but do we have any sort of proof that this is a key metric throughout all MS?

I seriously doubt it. More so because it's a pretty useless metric if you are also not tracking and trending other key performance indicators, like hardware sold.

That's my 2 cents.

I agree that it's convenient but that does seem to be the case. Someone with more insight posted it earlier in the thread but I'm not that invested in whether you believe it or not. Not a slight to you, mind. It's just fruitless legwork.

BillyMays · May 3, 2018

zychi said:
You should probably try harder and read up to the current page before being a dick. Maybe get yourself an avatar. If I'm a console warrior, it sure as shit isn't against Sony.

TheThreadsThatBindUs, you can literally scroll down on the page I linked and see their divisions lol

Way to prove my point that sales dont matter except to consolewars in these threads you two.

What do you want me to read harder ? You just claimed Sony was a mess except PlayStation then started sprouting even more bullshit about fox.

Say stupid things win stupid prizes kiddo

scabobbs · May 3, 2018

zychi said:
I guess Fox is doing well then? Since they're trying to sell off most of their movies and tv divisions, but Sony's stock entirely relies on Playstation doing well. Hmm.

Surely their other divisions, electronics, film, tv, etc being sold off would mean the company is in poor health besides one division?

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/10/31/sony-earnings-q2-2017.html

Maybe someone like TheThreadsThatBindUs, who seems willfully into sales numbers that don't exist for MS, and these threads(including this one) always turns into a sales measuring contest, (but I'm being ignorant of people who like sales numbers, that MS doesn't report) can explain to me how business works. Maybe that user has more insight on why shareholders would want to sell off a division, that doesn't share it's sales numbers to its shareholders, and sees it as a drain on the overall company.

I don't know tho, I'm just "smearing" the people who read into these nonexistent numbers, and then have bickering fights about sales numbers, that I again, don't care about, in these sales threads.

What more could possibly be apart of this discussions.

Company X outsold Y and has the entire life of company Y's gaming division, no one outside the US cares about company Y besides a few hardcore fans. Company Y doesnt share their sales numbers, but uses marketing terms to count free accounts as profitable. Those sales threads not turning into a consolewarz is surprising, but I don't care about sales, so I never go in those threads.

https://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/IR/library/presen/er/16q4_sony.pdf

VallenValiant · May 3, 2018

melodiousmowl said:
To me, it's a "who the hell cares"? kind of thing. And I dont know anyone who thinks MS is hiding "good news", they are just, rightly imo, avoiding a monthly shitshow that the press and some gamers love to use to, measure their parts or something.

I certainly know posters who are currently pretending XB1 is the number 1 console in the industry. Many such people were in the "engagement" thread.

Jaypah · May 3, 2018

VallenValiant said:
I certainly know posters who are currently pretending XB1 is the number 1 console in the industry. Many such people were in the "engagement" thread.

Number 1 console? Like...sales-wise? Either I've missed a ton of crazies on Era or it was a a handful of people, if that. That's insane.

zychi · May 3, 2018

BillyMays said:
What do you want me to read harder ? You just claim

ed Sony was a mess except PlayStation then started sprouting even more bullshit about fox.

Say stupid things win stupid prizes kiddo

Like I said, try harder. Calling me "kiddo" when you have a BillyMays user name and no avatar, sure gives you something to stand on.

It takes two seconds to Google Sony's current position, it takes maybe 5 minutes to read the thread and see their net income over the past 10 years is in the red. I'd call that a mess.

scabobbs said:
https://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/IR/library/presen/er/16q4_sony.pdf

Thats from last year, I posted 10 years worth of data with this information. What's your point?

This shows that everything but semiconductors, and Playstation are in the red for this period you posted. So thanks for saying the same thing I did?

Deleted member 4413 · May 3, 2018

Apparently we know it is around 37m which is really good when taken by itself and only a couple million behind 360 at the same time during its cycle. I imagine it wouldn't look good compared to the Ps4 which is drastically outselling last gen #'s. I imagine if we get new consoles in 2019 I could see Xbox One doing around 50 million, maybe 60 if the gen last until 2020. Considering what we all imagined it would be after the trainwreck of a launch, this is a really good turnaround.

onanie · May 3, 2018

The key to winning is to keep making new goal posts and kicking balls into it.

Melchiah · May 3, 2018

Abriael said:
This is like 2 years old news.

Glad to see The Verge is catching up.

sambills said:
weird to get this story the same day as the GoW sales story

TL;DR, eh?

Microsoft is providing a vague update on its Xbox One sales today, after remaining largely silent for years on exactly how many consoles have been sold. "Xbox One sales are up 15 percent over the same period last year," says Microsoft's game marketing chief, Mike Nichols, in a blog post about "recording-setting" Xbox numbers. The blog post still doesn't include any actual sales numbers, so it's hard to tell exactly how well the Xbox One is doing.

Microsoft made a vague post, reporters ask about details. Who would have thought? After all, the post mentions 15% growth in sales, but fails to mention any concrete figures.

Raonak · May 3, 2018

I just assume it hasn't sold any more than the last number they reported :P

onanie · May 4, 2018

Raonak said:
I just assume it hasn't sold any more than the last number they reported :P

No no no, Microsoft would not want that to be the case, given how hard they worked to make people believe otherwise.

Deleted member 26104 · May 4, 2018

VallenValiant said:
I don't mind that Xbox refuse to release numbers, but I find it rather sad that their fans try to argue that Xbox is actually stronger than Playstation because they somehow imagine it means MS is hiding good news.
Look, Sony in the PS3 days hid their numbers too, but no one then thought that was a good thing. But the current levels of denial and borderline delusion about magical growth that isn't there, just isn't healthy.

I haven't seen a single person on this entire forum ever try to argue that Xbox is stronger than Playstation. Care to provide any examples?

You saying that there isn't any growth in xbox is delusional, and 100% incorrect.

Lothars said:
it seems to work for some posters in this thread but I agree it seems pretty useless because engagement isn't a helpful or useful stat.

And this is why you're clearly not anywhere near being in charge of a company that has gone almost 100% service based.

Majora's Mask said:
Not that I don't believe you, but do we have any sort of proof that this is a key metric throughout all MS?

I seriously doubt it. More so because it's a pretty useless metric if you are also not tracking and trending other key performance indicators, like hardware sold.

That's my 2 cents.

https://www.businessinsider.com.au/microsoft-cloud-metrics-for-investors-2016-9?r=US&IR=T

On all counts, Microsoft is showing how much things are changing at the company: Instead of tracking how much money they're making from any one product, Microsoft's accountants are now looking at the recurring revenue that comes when you shift from boxed software into internet-delivered subscriptions. It's yet another sign of the new ways Microsoft does business.

Deleted member 20297 · May 4, 2018

We already knew that, though? Why make an article about it? But it resonates well within this forum.

reMiX. · May 4, 2018

melodiousmowl said:
Because nintendo is their own thing that doesnt get shit on in the press then get people doing hot takes if the sales arent above someone else's.

Fucking "gamers" made it toxic, now they can reap it.

Did you really just say that Nintendo doesn't get negative press for sales numbers? I mean, I'm with you if you're trying to say that Nintendo doesn't get AS MUCH flack about stuff..... buuut....

Here's a few results from just a cursory Google search for just the year 2013:

Wii U Sales Are Really, Really Bad
https://kotaku.com/the-wii-u-sales-are-really-really-bad-973133897

Nintendo's Wii U Is Getting Outsold by Its Own 6-Year-Old Predecessor
http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_t...w_console_outsold_by_its_own_predecessor.html

Wii U Sales Drop Off A Cliff As The Future Of Gaming Continues To Shift Away From The Console
https://techcrunch.com/2013/03/15/w...ing-continues-to-shift-away-from-the-console/

kpaadet · May 4, 2018

Dosn't wanna give us hard sales numbers but will tell us how many friended each other over Live, MS just giving us those important facts. Hopefully they'll tell us how many skeletons were killed in Sea of Thieves next.

nekkid · May 4, 2018

So anti consumer!

ccieag · May 4, 2018

MS is not behind Nintendo ... yet. Give it a couple years, and it will be the case unless the Switch sales just fall off a cliff

Madsenpai · May 4, 2018

Bgamer90 said:
Xbox simply has a more niche, hardcore user base

Like you isn't it?

Kolx said:
Didn't Sony do the same for a while during last gen when the PS3 wasn't as hot as the 360? companies tend to do that when they're doing worse than the competition.

No.

Lopez said:
Microsoft hasn't given sales numbers for a long time because it's part of their service strategy, all that matters to them is revenue and engagement. Xbox live is still a cash cow so that's what really matters on the Xbox side, that being the Xbox one is probably selling just fine and will probably end up somewhere around 50 mil mark by 2021.

Let's be honest. We all know why Microsoft's performance metrics changed. There is no need to be naive.

reMiX. · May 4, 2018

I'm sure there's a lot of people at MS who don't agree with this strategy.
There are obvious reasons for why they are doing this but still...
I think the majority of the gaming community would reaally respect MS if Phil came out at E3 and was like, "we're super proud to have sold 30mil Xboxs to date and we're gonna continue in our mission to... yada yada"...

Jenea · May 4, 2018

It makes sense for them to hide the numbers when Xbox is way behind it's main competitor to avoid any kind of bad press.

onanie · May 4, 2018

reMiX. said:
I'm sure there's a lot of people at MS who don't agree with this strategy.
There are obvious reasons for why they are doing this but still...
I think the majority of the gaming community would reaally respect MS if Phil came out at E3 and was like, "we're super proud to have sold 30mil Xboxs to date and we're gonna continue in our mission to... yada yada"...

They'll never admit defeat even when it's obvious

Imitatio · May 4, 2018

Woah, wait. Xbox One sales are at around 35 million ww? I'd have guessed it would be at least 10 million more. Welp.

Yeah, no wonder then that they're not stating numbers. Being outsold 2:1 doesn't bode well as in regards to PR.

Deleted member 20297 · May 4, 2018

ccieag said:
MS is not behind Nintendo ... yet. Give it a couple years, and it will be the case unless the Switch sales just fall off a cliff

In a couple years, there will be Xbox Two, though. The future of the switch is also not set in stone at all.

H-I-M · May 4, 2018

Bruceleeroy said:
Normally I would say that was indicative of poor sales which we know isn't the case but if your not #1 doesn't make much sense to release that info anyways.

And we know it isn't the case because ?

caff!!! · May 4, 2018

Microsoft being coy about console sales is a face saving move, no doubt. I certainly expect, however, that console sales will matter less compared to xbox live/game pass subs and promoting the platform in general over console focus by the next gen system.

Fart Master · May 4, 2018

Madsenpai said:
Like you isn't it?

No.

Let's be honest. We all know why Microsoft's performance metrics changed. There is no need to be naive.

MAUs are been used company wide not just Xbox, like I get what you're saying but this is a lot more complicated than what your implying.

OldBritBloke · May 4, 2018

I don't think MS are as bothered by comparisons with PS4 sales figures as they are by comparisons with 360 sales figures. Xbox is making good money, but you're always going to shy away from reporting any kind of metric that could be interpreted as a downward trend.

Xx 720 · May 4, 2018

It's just pr. The xbox x is fantastic, this gen is set anyway - they blew it at the start and it's done. But they have earned good will with the X, set the standard with backward compatibility. They need to get their first party in order, but in fairness they have had hits with sea of thieves and pubg has been a hit on console for them.

EvoTech · May 4, 2018

Well I bought one, so I helped.

Deleted member 32018 · May 4, 2018

c0de said:
In a couple years, there will be Xbox Two, though. The future of the switch is also not set in stone at all.

The Switch, based on predictions, will overtake Xbox sometime next year. Is this set in stone? Of course not, no one knows what the future holds and if we did we would all be rich. I also would expect an Xbox Two towards the end of 2020 at the earliest due to when they released the X but again this is just guesswork.

G_O · May 4, 2018

reMiX. said:
I'm sure there's a lot of people at MS who don't agree with this strategy.
There are obvious reasons for why they are doing this but still...
I think the majority of the gaming community would reaally respect MS if Phil came out at E3 and was like, "we're super proud to have sold 30mil Xboxs to date and we're gonna continue in our mission to... yada yada"...

Why is it important that the gaming community know how many xboxes have been sold? What would change if this information was made available?

onanie · May 4, 2018

c0de said:
In a couple years, there will be Xbox Two, though. The future of the switch is also not set in stone at all.

I guess the one is done

KillerMan91 · May 4, 2018

Phantom Thief said:
Then why does Nintendo do it?

Because they have to. Console business is the main business of Nintendo so shareholders want to get more information how it does than with Sony or especially MS.

Riversands · May 4, 2018

I've been seeing this trend too with some open public companies, what's the purpose? Is it possible they are actually evading income tax? I can understand if it is private company, but this seems a bit weird behaviour

Asmodai48 · May 4, 2018

Sony were doing it last gen too combining PS3 and psp's for a while.

The Verge: Microsoft still won’t say how many Xbox Ones have been sold

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