Deleted member 50374

alt account
Banned
Dec 4, 2018
2,482
Hello everyone,

I'd like to discuss a thing or two about the cosplay scene, also relaying the experience of two cosplayers (both girls) I know well who are both progressive and sex positive.

The first one recently picked up cosplay again, and is into mostly military and action cosplay, from cult series like Resident Evil. Of the two she prefers to do female characters, guns out and such, staying true to the character. She recently (re)made a character and posted it on Reddit, on the game's subreddit. While having a great success, she also has received various questions about when she was posting the "lewds" and such; many mocked her for being not realistic enough, or that things weren't exactly 100% perfect.

The second one has been making cosplay for a while for others and also for herself, but she also likes male characters more (but she does both). She's also streaming much of that on Twitch in the past couple years. While receiving the same shitty toxic questions, she also received some insults on the transphobic side because, not being into makeup or revealing tops, people really wanted to know what is in her pants. And also some minor celebrities have been slightly pervy in private messages, or really really interested if she did nudity, body painting and such. She also complains that now everybody does 3d printing and it sucks for traditional makers...

Both complained to me that since 2014-2015, which mostly correspond to Patreon becoming more and more popular, "lewd cosplay" has been gaining a bigger and bigger share of the cosplay scene. While even I did a couple characters when I was a student, I don't really remember the community being so dominated by cosplayers who also sell nudes and various lewds; sure, it's not new or anything, but the popular cosplay in my preferred fandoms are quite often also made by those who also do "lewds", and this trend has been getting stronger in the last couple years. While one community (I can name it, the Siege one) has a great scene that features all characters about equally - maybe because Ubisoft handles well the community on that side - the niches aren't as cool.

It gives me mixed feelings, which is why I wanted to open this thread. Most of the people I follow on Twitter and Instagram are "influencers" in their fields but also for the biggest part queer and PoC, and all have been speaking out on pride, acceptance and being compassionate, as tech, cosplay and gaming are fields in which there's a lot of toxicity and misogynism; from the classic RTFM acronym (read the fucking manual) to mansplaining, toxic debating, perviness, and eventually people sending "hello cutie" on LinkedIn.

Many of the best cosplayers I've seen in fact are queer and/or non heteronormative. At the same time, while recognizing that "lewd" oriented cosplayers often do a great job at both the lewd and the cosplay, I feel kinda sorry for the vitriol that my friends are receiving. I suppose the biggest fault is from the teenagers who know nothing better and expect "rule 34" to be the norm or something. But I don't see respect for either "styles of cosplay", not being pervy pieces of shit (there's always a couple or more at events "cosplaying" as photographers) being a major topic of discussion.

I guess it's a bit of a niche topic, but I was wondering if you had experiences about this.
 
Oct 25, 2017
16,568
If people wanna use their bodies to make some money, that's alright.

There's always gonna be room for regular-ass cosplay.
 
Oct 25, 2017
16,568
I guess, sure, but that's exactly what my friends are compelled to complain about, that most if not all the attention and/or success is shifting to Patreon nudes.
Well considering how most kideo game or anime fans are, they're always gonna get more. It's just now you can pay for what you want. I don't really have any interest in that so I'm not paying, but I feel like the two can coexist. Has it changed how actual animu conventions are?
 

PanzerKraken

Member
Nov 1, 2017
15,119
If people wanna use their bodies to make some money, that's alright.

There's always gonna be room for regular-ass cosplay.

Not really about that, but the whole change in attitude, and crummy nature of now cosplay fandom. Girls who actually want to cosplay for fun are pressured and harassed for what they do and creepy people wanting more from them. I run a group for a specific franchise fandom and when we post certain females who are total casual fun cosplayers, the comments that get posted about them and sent to them can be pretty awful. Folks seem to be getting extra creepy and the rise of cosplayers doing it just to sell themselves, its getting worse.
 

Gustaf

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
14,926
gotta be hard for a cosplayer to spend 3 weeks making a costume just for another cosplayer putting a wig and and lingerie and earning 10 more times ;/

Not really about that, but the whole change in attitude, and crummy nature of now cosplay fandom. Girls who actually want to cosplay for fun are pressured and harassed for what they do and creepy people wanting more from them. I run a group for a specific franchise fandom and when we post certain females who are total casual fun cosplayers, the comments that get posted about them and sent to them can be pretty awful. Folks seem to be getting extra creepy and the rise of cosplayers doing it just to sell themselves, its getting worse.

yeah, the amount of "let me know when she starts doing porn" for some of the cosplayers is staggering
 

Expy

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,905
So, from what I get there's nothing wrong with lewd cosplaying, it's mostly about the people spewing vitriol at your friends?
 

Kthulhu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,670
I'd blame the community more than anything.

I don't think lewds necessarily cause toxicity.
 

Supercrap

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,362
Oakland Bay Area
its weird because it quickly went from people having fun in costumes to amateur modelling to whatever you want to call it now.

Theres people out there just having fun and theres people out there to make money. You should just try to do whatever makes you happy, if you let the other stuff get in your way maybe theres something else you should be doing
 

joedick

Member
Mar 19, 2018
1,405
So, from what I get there's nothing wrong with lewd cosplaying, it's mostly about the people spewing vitriol at your friends?

And that's worth discussing. He's saying the rise of lewds is leading to people expecting it and outright asking for it. It shouldn't be expected or asked for. Would anybody go up to someone doing sandwich board advertising for lewd photos?
 

show me your skeleton

#1 Bugsnax Fan
Member
Oct 28, 2017
15,683
skeleton land
i feel gatekeeping is partly to blame of this - the only way many women are 'allowed' to be part of the anime/comic/game scene is if they provide something of value to the loudest, most depraved members.
 
Oct 25, 2017
26,560
gotta be hard for a cosplayer to spend 3 weeks making a costume just for another cosplayer putting a wig and and lingerie and earning 10 more times ;/



yeah, the amount of "let me know when she starts doing porn" for some of the cosplayers is staggering
This is basically saying people who do lewds don't put in any actual effort.
 
Oct 25, 2017
16,568
Not really about that, but the whole change in attitude, and crummy nature of now cosplay fandom. Girls who actually want to cosplay for fun are pressured and harassed for what they do and creepy people wanting more from them. I run a group for a specific franchise fandom and when we post certain females who are total casual fun cosplayers, the comments that get posted about them and sent to them can be pretty awful. Folks seem to be getting extra creepy and the rise of cosplayers doing it just to sell themselves, its getting worse.
I can believe that. That sucks. People always dealt with that before but probably on a much smaller scale.
 

joedick

Member
Mar 19, 2018
1,405
its weird because it quickly went from people having fun in costumes to amateur modelling to whatever you want to call it now.

Theres people out there just having fun and theres people out there to make money. You should just try to do whatever makes you happy, if you let the other stuff get in your way maybe theres something else you should be doing

I know this wasn't your intent, but it feels like this response is saying 'if you don't like bullies then go do something else'. Let's focus on getting rid of the bullies.
 
Oct 25, 2017
16,568
of course they do,

but dont even try to say they put as much as someone making a full costume

even jessica nigri said it, she throws lewd cosplays between the big ones because they are easier to do
That's insinuating they don't make a full costume. That's probably not correct. It's not just "topless X" or "pantsless Y"
 

SRG01

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,038
of course they do,

but dont even try to say they put as much as someone making a full costume

even jessica nigri said it, she throws lewd cosplays between the big ones because they are easier to do

All cosplayers will readily admit this too. Lewds are a part of the cosplay scene -- regardless of whether it's just color-schemed bikinis or not.
 

PanzerKraken

Member
Nov 1, 2017
15,119
The conventions make it worse too as it's a popularity contest and all about attention. You have big events posting that they give free tables and sometimes more for cosplayers to be guests if they for example have at least 7k followers or something. Cosplayers have to wow to get attention they need to be famous, and a quick way for fame is to post kinky photos. They do whatever they can to become minor celebs, and it's not really about craftmanship either anymore, many popular cosplayers with big followings don't build any costumes, they often use readily available suits that you can get from China even, but it's no longer about costume contests and craftmanship, it's about how many follows you gots?
 

Isilia

Member
Mar 11, 2019
5,896
US: PA
No one should ever feel pressured to do them. By nature of the internet, there will always be people who ask anyway. I feel for the many that have to deal with that "request" daily.

Since there are obviously people who do "lewd" without any issues, maybe they are just not looking in the right place...or maybe they just have to have that one person in those outfits and no one else.

I cannot relate, but I do sympathize. Not everything has to be sexual. Though lots of people wish it could be.
 

Deleted member 25445

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
648
its weird because it quickly went from people having fun in costumes to amateur modelling to whatever you want to call it now.

Theres people out there just having fun and theres people out there to make money. You should just try to do whatever makes you happy, if you let the other stuff get in your way maybe theres something else you should be doing
I think you call it porn now.
 

AliceAmber

Drive-in Mutant
Administrator
May 2, 2018
6,991
I have a lot of experience in this, actually as someone who has done lewd cosplay stuff for MANY years. However it is absolutely mind boggling how much its blown up recently.

I'm sorry your friends have been harassed by people online. There is certainly so much pressure to cosplay to cater to the male gaze.
 

Fierro

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
960
I have no experience with cosplaying but if I were to support a cosplayer, sex appeal would factor into my judgement. That doesn't mean it has to be lewd.
 

Kthulhu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,670
of course they do,

but dont even try to say they put as much as someone making a full costume

even jessica nigri said it, she throws lewd cosplays between the big ones because they are easier to do

I dunno man. I've seen some elaborate stuff.

The conventions make it worse too as it's a popularity contest and all about attention. You have big events posting that they give free tables and sometimes more for cosplayers to be guests if they for example have at least 7k followers or something. Cosplayers have to wow to get attention they need to be famous, and a quick way for fame is to post kinky photos. They do whatever they can to become minor celebs, and it's not really about craftmanship either anymore, many popular cosplayers with big followings don't build any costumes, they often use readily available suits that you can get from China even, but it's no longer about costume contests and craftmanship, it's about how many follows you gots?


What are you talking about? I see no name cosplayers and people who do it for fun get pictures of them all the time.
 

Servbot24

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
43,539
I know this wasn't your intent, but it feels like this response is saying 'if you don't like bullies then go do something else'. Let's focus on getting rid of the bullies.
I think there are two issues; there's people being sexist assholes, and then there's the fact that sex sells. The former should be dealt with, but I'm not sure if the latter can/should be.
 

Gustaf

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
14,926
I think same goes in the art world. Drawing a sexy character is an easy sell, but there are still people making extremely skilled and detailed drawings of sexy characters.

I'm referring to elaborate lewd cosplays. Some involve really complicated outfits and the craftsmanship is impressive.


i mean yes,

but im not talking about 2B cosplays where the character is sexy

im talking about literally put on a white wig and some lingerie and thats it
 

PanzerKraken

Member
Nov 1, 2017
15,119
I'm referring to small time regular cosplayers. You're making it sound like only people already popular can succeed or that getting naked is the only way to get big online.

No, I said it's a way to do it quick. Those with true talent and amazing costumes get attention, but many clearly don't have any talent, but heck they hit the ground running going straight to lewd market for the quick likes and follows. Conventions going out there and posting public applications and guest requirements stating cosplayers need to meet a certain like count standard to be allowed in, are promoting people to sell themselves any ways you can. Conventions are making it into a competition and forcing folks who want the fame to do whatever they can to get random strangers to hit a like button.
 

s_mirage

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,796
Birmingham, UK
I guess, sure, but that's exactly what my friends are compelled to complain about, that most if not all the attention and/or success is shifting to Patreon nudes.

So, is this about making money? If so, the way I see it is that the market has just evolved.

If people are being made uncomfortable to the point that they want to stop doing something that they enjoy, that's a problem. However, if it's just the case that they can't make money out of it any more, well, I'm sorry but from my POV that's just tough for them. If people want to try to turn a hobby into a career, more power to them, but it's a risk and they're not entitled to perpetual success.
 

IsThatHP

Member
Oct 31, 2017
1,036
It's a body business, progressive/regressive politics don't really have much to do with it. Models, tradesmen, etc. all come together to do some really high quality things with cosplay. Yes, the hobbyist hoping to gather donations from their costumes may struggle more, but as someone that does some mid-tier cosplay (~500 buck budget on a costume), it was pretty important for me to step back and realize that in the end i'm there to have fun and pay homage to a design I love and hope that other guests wherever I am find it as cool as I do.
 

smisk

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,036
Does seem like it's really taking off and they can make a lot of money on Patreon, which is nice. Sadly my gf won't let me subscribe to cosplayers anymore.
 

Xaszatm

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,903
As someone who's friends with cosplayers, I have seen the same thing. A lot of women cosplayers feel forced to do lewds because that's what's popular, or will be pressured into it by fans.
 

Omegamon

Alt Account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,884
The cosplay community has always been like that, the difference is that now stuff like Patreon exists so you can profit from it more easily
 

Jogi

Prophet of Regret
Member
Jul 4, 2018
5,508
Sounds like three issues here: 1) They feel lewd cosplayers are taking away from attention that would be focused on them. 2) 3D prop makers are also taking attention away from their props. 3) They are expected to do lewds from internet people? As for 1 &2, that's kinda the way the world works. Things evolve. Markets change and affordable technology allows for more challenging creative output. As for 3, they shouldn't place their cosplayer worth on random internet dudebros / trolls.
 

Kthulhu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,670
No, I said it's a way to do it quick. Those with true talent and amazing costumes get attention, but many clearly don't have any talent, but heck they hit the ground running going straight to lewd market for the quick likes and follows. Conventions going out there and posting public applications and guest requirements stating cosplayers need to meet a certain like count standard to be allowed in, are promoting people to sell themselves any ways you can. Conventions are making it into a competition and forcing folks who want the fame to do whatever they can to get random strangers to hit a like button.

I think you're needlessly putting down some cosplayers

The cons don't have infinite space. Obviously they can't give out free spots to people who won't draw a crowd.