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"The Simpsons" hits back at Hari Kondabolu's "The Problem With Apu"
- Thread starter Richiek
- Start date
Fuck whatever shit tier, hack writer decided to use Lisa to make this point. And if Matt Groening greenlit this, fuck him too.
the replies in this thread about apu being the same as comic book guy and uter are just silly. One is white people doing voices for other white people, and the other is a white man doing a racist ass indian impression. I'm sure people who dont see this as a problem also dont see laura bailey playing nadine, a black woman, as a problem either.
As a south asian dude , it is pretty offensive to me that in 2018 hank azaria is still doing this.
As a south asian dude , it is pretty offensive to me that in 2018 hank azaria is still doing this.
Yes, but weirdly in the United States where the show is written and primarily aired anglo-descendent americans both control the vast majority of the entertainment culture and are not meaningfully systemically discriminated against by other classes, so the effect of an offensive representation has relatively little impact on the lives of them, unlike members of a more marginalized identity
There's a great documentary that actually goes into detail and provides a lot of information about what tangible effects spiral out from representation such as this, its called The Problem With Apu. I would encourage people to watch it
Apu being the same as Comic Book guy is how we get GGs style "nerds are an opressed minority"
Using Lisa for this "response". Ugh.
Using Lisa for this "response". Ugh.
Nu-Lisa feels like a perfect fit for this, she is def the kind of person that wouldn't accept being told wrong by others.
The gap between loving caricature and harmful stereotype shifts, narrows and broadens over time.
It is rarely something that the creators of a particular piece of work are directly in control over.
Likewise you may only become aware of this a long time after people's sentiments have shifted.
It may even be that for some what may otherwise be a loving caricature has long been a harmful stereotype.
I'd have hoped the creative team behind The Simpsons were aware of the subtleties around this, it is really disappointing to see them come out with such a hamfisted response.
It is rarely something that the creators of a particular piece of work are directly in control over.
Likewise you may only become aware of this a long time after people's sentiments have shifted.
It may even be that for some what may otherwise be a loving caricature has long been a harmful stereotype.
I'd have hoped the creative team behind The Simpsons were aware of the subtleties around this, it is really disappointing to see them come out with such a hamfisted response.
Apu is fine IMO. The episode where he becomes an American citizen still warms my heart to this day.
"But they stereotype Germans with lederhosen and sausages! And white middle class Americans!" is some "All Lives Matter!" type of response.
Really I would say just watch the first ten seasons or so. Although bad episodes start cropping up in the later ones, there are still a few gems up till there. Mayored to the Mob is rather good for instance.
Some like him, some don't. It's not anywhere near cut and dry enough to say "indian people feel X way" about the character.
That's the key to how Simpson's got away with it per say, everyone was a characature, but the show was very very rarely mean spirited about any of sais characatures.They also subverted the expectations of Apu positively in many occasions.
The ending to the response is mind blowing though 'some things will be dealt with at a later date' 'if at all' *glares at camera*.
Like, what?
Fair enough. Id intended to watch the show up til the season before ned's first wife dies so that sounds about when id stop
I mean. Im not going to tell people that Apu isn't offensive, or that he didn't have a negative influence on people.
I just have trouble getting worked up about something that was created like 30 years ago, that doesn't conform with modern day sensibilities. Its a really weird by-product of the simpsons lasting as long as it has.
I just have trouble getting worked up about something that was created like 30 years ago, that doesn't conform with modern day sensibilities. Its a really weird by-product of the simpsons lasting as long as it has.
Agreed. It's recently where you see a fuss about this sort of thing, but you rarely heard a thing back in the 90s (I personally don't believe Apu's centric moments or episodes came from a place of malice either).
People are allowed to be upset and it's so rare that any show would last long enough to see itself outdated.
Frankly if they retired Apu it would be both good form, a chance to make right with a new character, and help on news ideas in a show kinda starved for them. I'll also agree the response is, well, really off-colour for this show.
I think my main issue with Apu is at some point the octuplets became a thing (season 11) and it seems to just play into stereotype "Indians have a lot of children" and aside from the initial episode about it, they never really contribute anything to the story except "oh look, Apu has a lot of children."
Simpsons has been trash for a long ass time. Like I don't know how many threads we need to drill into the heads of some of you people.
Because here's how not a part of a marginalized group works.
You see some shit like Apu but you so melanin deprived you just ride with like huck huck yeah they sure do talk and act like this. I'll even impersonate her stereotypical voice.
But hey decades later when we try to evolve as a society people tell you why it's bad? Nope nooo it never bothered me, I never saw a problem.
Apu was/is an insult but nah disagree with me, quote me, get into your trash.
Yep keep staying melanin deprived and problematic when we're trying to fix shit.
Because here's how not a part of a marginalized group works.
You see some shit like Apu but you so melanin deprived you just ride with like huck huck yeah they sure do talk and act like this. I'll even impersonate her stereotypical voice.
But hey decades later when we try to evolve as a society people tell you why it's bad? Nope nooo it never bothered me, I never saw a problem.
Apu was/is an insult but nah disagree with me, quote me, get into your trash.
Yep keep staying melanin deprived and problematic when we're trying to fix shit.
fat tony and the mob, mayor quimby, chief wiggum. yes, they're all stereo types turned up to 100.
Honestly simpsons shouldnt have even responded. Simpsons shouldnt be on the air anymore either, but thats another thing.
Everyone of the show is an archetype.
I love Apu but understand if people don't. What they should do is add another Indian on the show.
It's very appropriate that Lisa is the one voicing that, because it is clearly a child's response.
Apu is not a perfect representation, that's true -- but what do people want? The removal of Apu? That just removes a PoC character, lessening representation.
People here are making statements as is Apu is some horrid racist caricature, and that's histrionic. I learned some things about Indian culture as a child from Apu, moreso than other sources on TV. Did I learn a lot? No -- but I was introduced to concepts I would not otherwise have been, relating to Hunduism and Indian culture.
We're talking about a show that has obviously ridiculous ethnic sterotypes way worse than Apu in how close they hew to the general negative stereotypes in question -- like Willie for example.
I understand wanting better representation where there are examples of imperfect representation, but this feels like an example of going too far -- because if there was no Apu in The Simpsons, there would have been no PoC replacement. So instead of getting a flawed representation that generally attempts to be kind (unlike 'representations' you'd see in shows like South Park), you'd get no representation at all.
People here are making statements as is Apu is some horrid racist caricature, and that's histrionic. I learned some things about Indian culture as a child from Apu, moreso than other sources on TV. Did I learn a lot? No -- but I was introduced to concepts I would not otherwise have been, relating to Hunduism and Indian culture.
We're talking about a show that has obviously ridiculous ethnic sterotypes way worse than Apu in how close they hew to the general negative stereotypes in question -- like Willie for example.
I understand wanting better representation where there are examples of imperfect representation, but this feels like an example of going too far -- because if there was no Apu in The Simpsons, there would have been no PoC replacement. So instead of getting a flawed representation that generally attempts to be kind (unlike 'representations' you'd see in shows like South Park), you'd get no representation at all.
Note to self: "melanin deprived" is a cool way to refer to white people. I'll have to appropriate that.
Stop,, just, stop. White people making fun of each other is not racist. it's called privilege. German, America, etc are all fucking White. Apu is not white, Apu is Indian.You are justifying being racist towards Indians. Apu is a disgusting racist caricature and Simpsons is pretty much alt-right these days anyways.
I want him removed, I want the VA fired, and I want a fucking written apology and more PoCs that aren't just stereotypes.
There's his wife, his brother, his nephew , his many kids.
So do some of Y'all really not get why Apu would have been seen as potential harmful to a lot of Indians or hell anyone who was brown in the 90s?
For a lot of America, that was the only exposure they had to someone of that color. You have stories of kids being bullied with being told Thank You Come Again constantly, being called Apu, and shit of that nature.
Maybe watch the doc done by the Indian man, who interviews a lot of people, Indian or otherwise, including Whoopi Goldberg and has her realize that for Indian people, Apu was like their minstrel show in some aspects.
For a lot of America, that was the only exposure they had to someone of that color. You have stories of kids being bullied with being told Thank You Come Again constantly, being called Apu, and shit of that nature.
Maybe watch the doc done by the Indian man, who interviews a lot of people, Indian or otherwise, including Whoopi Goldberg and has her realize that for Indian people, Apu was like their minstrel show in some aspects.
My bad. Zombie Simpsons was a term coined by this guy: https://deadhomersociety.com/zombiesimpsons/
I don't agree with the book at all (obviously), but it's a good read if you're interested in the (demise of the) Simpsons.
The correct response from the writers should've been to introduce a more well-rounded recurring character, voiced by an indian actor rather than Hank Azaria.
Throwing around the term "Melanin-deprived" is hypocritical and not helpful.
Throwing around the term "Melanin-deprived" is hypocritical and not helpful.
Man that response is baffling.
Apu has a lot of great moments, but there's also a lot of things about him that aren't so great. We're supposed to look at characters like him and learn from them, see what the critiques are and use them to avoid the same issues in the future.
This almost comes across as a middle finger towards the very idea that the show could be flawed.
Apu has a lot of great moments, but there's also a lot of things about him that aren't so great. We're supposed to look at characters like him and learn from them, see what the critiques are and use them to avoid the same issues in the future.
This almost comes across as a middle finger towards the very idea that the show could be flawed.
No, Apu is not Indian, he's brown going by your logic. Because if you're going to say German, France, etc are all the same god damn thing - just white - then you also have some serious issues.
Alt Right? Come on. Considering past posts from you, I am starting to believe you are a parody account.
As for the bolded part... removed, fired and a written apology? Wow. That was a good chuckle and not to mention, absurd.
For me Apu is not making a mockery of Indians, for the most part he was one of the most centered characters in the show and the episodes around him where at times some of the best that the show could deliver, at no point I felt that he made Hindus look bad, unlike characters like Willie or Uther which really made being scottish or german look like a negative since that's their main trait
Now that being said, the show gave a terrible answer, they could have handled the criticism better to improve the show and not use Lisa Simpson of all characters to push their agenda
Now that being said, the show gave a terrible answer, they could have handled the criticism better to improve the show and not use Lisa Simpson of all characters to push their agenda
-snort- People can't tone online. They assume I'm just a joke and dismiss me. I fully admit I had problematic views once. People can change and I did. All it took was genuine convincing arguments. It wasn't as though it was instant either but, it happened gradually. People assume I'm a troll or a joke but, I've always said I get passionate and often too excited at times. If people want me to tone it down then I will.
Apu is not perfect -- that is clear. But responses like this basically amount to attacking any representation at all that is imperfect. Removing all imperfect representations would lead to less representation overall.
If you were to run a study on culturally insensitive characters on television, Apu wouldn't crack the top 10. Hell, I'm not sure he would crack the top 10 for culturally insensitive animated characters.
The insensitive aspects of Apu's character are surface level (Yeah, he's an Indian convenience store clerk) -- but the show introduced concepts and culture to Americans they may not have otherwise been exposed to in popular culture. If people's only experience with Indian culture is through Apu, they would know vaguely about Hunduism, vegetarianism, and such -- but that vague knowledge is better than no knowledge. What other even vagely-positive representation of Indian culture can you find on TV? Raj from The Big Bang Theory?
If that's the next best offering, I'll stick with Apu.
Yeah.
I don't think its a middle finger but more or less they acknowledge the problem but they are stuck with the question of "what do we do?".
Because Apu is a product of his time. What is being expected of them to do?
1) Remove/kill Apu?
2) Recast Apu with a new actor?
These are their only options. Granted, I haven't watched Simpsons in a long time and only bother to tune into the Treehouse of Horror episodes, but people are saying Simpsons had Indian characters voiced by actual Indians.
So honestly, their only response or way to address this criticism is not an easy fix. It's literally either remove Apu or recast him.
