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"The Simpsons" hits back at Hari Kondabolu's "The Problem With Apu"
- Thread starter Richiek
- Start date
...how can they be so blind as to not realize that the issue is that they (and their people) are not turning down these jobs because they are offended by it, but rather because they flat out are not being offered these kinds of jobs?
"Get over it" sounds like selfish sour grapes.
I don't know if you've ever been the victim of racism or not.. but sometimes, getting over it... is the best you can do. Sometimes, the best course of action, for yourself, and for your safety, is to learn to deal with racism by improving yourself, instead of trying to change a system that will ultimately fuck you. Because in thousands of years, everyone who fought it... has failed. And to use a fucking cartoon character... as a method to try and combat racism, is a pretty sad injustice to the real shit that goes on out there.
Cool. This is not one of those situations at fucking all. Nobody is risking their safety by pointing out how problematic Apu is. And the system you are describing, the one that "fucks us," is actually a system of advertising that very closely listens to feedback from the public because their livelihoods rely on it.
That you think "a fucking cartoon character" is sad, you should step back and look at how you are parading around your nameless, non-user family in this topic, as they're nothing more than a prop, an appeal to authority you can use because you yourself haven't even see the documentary you're commenting on.
If you think my question was in bad faith i'm sorry because it wasn't my intention. I did think about writing "Is obvious that the answer can't be as easy as lol dumb indians just like getting offended and is obvious that the indian situation is different from that other ethnicities", and seeing some of the responses, i definitely should have wrote it down. I terribly dislike the idea that people get offended because they wanna be offended, getting offended is above all, a feeling and then later we rationalize it the best way we can, thats why i wrote "even before we start to discuss if the complains are valid or not", because is obvious that the feelings exist.
When it comes to mexicans and hispanics i think that yeah you are right, there is great representation elsewhere, but the issue goes much much deeper. Comparing Mexicans (And maybe latinos in general) to other minorities can't be done without first realizing that there exists a big difference, first because latinos have their own big channel networks in the US like Univision or Telemundo in their own language, there are many places in the southwestern US where people can live where they virtually don't need to speak a lick of english. The second thing is that Mexico is down the border, and there is a ridiculous amount of cultural exchange between Mexico and the US (specially in the media i mentioned), Mexican-americans get the same tv shows (soap operas), same movies, same soccer, same news, same trends, same awards, same food. So it becomes so easy for Mexicans there even if they are not being represented in the anglo media to not care, because they feel they have media of their own.
Oh, so now we're talking about whataboutism. How people should just don't care about "light racism" because "heavy racism" is out there. Victims of racism should just "improve themselves" instead of trying to change racism. Right, that's a dose of victim blaming too in there to complete the package, I suppose.
You don't care, fine. Your family don't care about it, their prerogative. But don't try to frame people unwilling to just bend over and receive it as doing "injustice", because in the end they're trying to make it better for your family too.
That's fucked up they think racial taunting should be normalized and people should just get over it, honestly. That "we dealt with it too" shit doesn't make them any less shitty for believing dumb shit like that.
Their explicit approval of racial abuse flies in the face of every bit of progress made in this country by people who didn't uncritically accept whatever scraps they were offered; people with courage to challenge the way things are.
Why would any trained actor that wants to be taken seriously demean themselves with stereotypical bullshit when it simply doesn't have to be that way?
Here's a video of Denzel Washington talking about having some damn integrity and standards
I love this Forum. You guys go NUTS over the dumbest shit, especially a dissenting opinion. I saw the first few minutes of the Doc during this conversation, and my opinion remains the same. I think it's stupid, if you want to hate me for that opinion, go right ahead.
I mean what's their goal here? Do they want to change Apu to a Hindi voice actor? He's still going to say the same quotes, be the same character, have the same stereotypical traits. Do they want to bring awareness he's voiced by a white guy? Everyone know's that, nobody cares (well, they do, apparently). What's the point of this documentary other than to say "A cartoon character ruined my life and I feel bad."? Is that explained later in the film? It's too late for this.
I love replies like this. They are so dripping with hypocrisy and the poster never fucking notices it. You think you're above it all, but you're not.
What's your goal here? To shut everyone up so that you can feel smugly superior?
Oh now we're moving to "you're just too sensitive" part of the argument. I like how you're saying that kind of thing, while you are the one who is now being overdramatic over us trying to "hate you for your dissenting opinion."
Like I said, I don't care if you don't care or any one of your family don't care, but don't try to handwave how people are seeing just how stereotypically racist Apu and how the kind of perception that may arise from such a hugely popular fictional character in a hugely popular show can have an impact on the real brown people roaming the street.
Now you're just shit taking all over the place after admitting you have even watched the subject matter, you think your opinion is valid
Where did you get that Hari said Apu ruined his life? What is that straw man bullshit?
Like you refuse to hear his and many other's issue with the character and get on this stupid bully routine of acting like his issue is that he's just too sensitive. It's grade school shit
Where did you get that Hari said Apu ruined his life? What is that straw man bullshit?
Like you refuse to hear his and many other's issue with the character and get on this stupid bully routine of acting like his issue is that he's just too sensitive. It's grade school shit
I personally don't think Apu is a bad character, sure he's a little stereotyped but I don't see any harm in it.
However, The Simpsons' response is pretty awful. And Lisa of all characters saying it? It just screams of ineptitude and cluelessness. It's kinda sad how much the show is a husk of its former self.
Also looking back at the thread, this was ages ago but,
Lmao "melanin deprived", what are people on
However, The Simpsons' response is pretty awful. And Lisa of all characters saying it? It just screams of ineptitude and cluelessness. It's kinda sad how much the show is a husk of its former self.
Also looking back at the thread, this was ages ago but,
Lmao "melanin deprived", what are people on
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There's literally an entire documentary about how much of a problem his character is.
Their stance is that of an old man ranting about how he can't say certain words anymore.
Even ignoring their stance, it's such effortless writing, having the typically liberal 8 year old Lisa Simpson breaking character to rant about "PC culture", before looking directly at the camera.
Even ignoring their stance, it's such effortless writing, having the typically liberal 8 year old Lisa Simpson breaking character to rant about "PC culture", before looking directly at the camera.
It is such a fuck you of them to use Lisa for this. I get that they have difficulty addressing this issue being stuck between two camps and all but this was just the absolute worst way to do it.
I agree, and I imagine most of the audience can acknowledge that.
It's just, I think, the "weight" is different, you know? Like every form of careless display of caricature/stereotyping is bad, but the "weight" between a stereotyped white character and a stereotyped brown/black character is just different, you know? with the latter being I think so much more impactful because white people can just laugh it all knowing that in real life, they're winning too.
I look it at it in a different way. I'm very glad that we got see a brown person represented, not as 'Alex' or 'David', but rather 'Apu'. Best of all, he had an accent. We got to see a 'caricature' American family interact with an Indian family. Their relationship was innocent and endearing. It's an example of diverse casting. Yes, there are some elements of it which you could analyse in a critical essay if you're going through your "woke" phase, but ultimately he's a fun character with his own persona, not defined by stereotypes.
Everyone needs to give it a rest and find something worthwhile to be outraged by.
I don't remember anyone considering it offensive at the time. The character was viewed as hilarious.
Yes, this was a thing people talked about back then, and yes, I can prove it.
Here are actual forum posts from 1991 talking about Apu being racist:
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.tv.simpsons/At2Ag_cKPoQ/YK6PXXGVvP8J
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.tv.simpsons/PkxJurPxbyg/5SZV-KjJ9UkJ
These are two of the oldest, but there are thousands of posts like this. To the point where other users were commenting on how tied they were of discussions about Apu being a racist caricature:
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.tv.simpsons/iN1GWDEntsY/6VHfwqE8hiwJ
It is literally not diverse casting.
The doc goes overs this. Maybe you should watch it.
Casting refers to the appointing of actors to characters they play. It does not mean the literal cast of characters.
Having a white dude who already plays like 20 different people play one more indian dude is literally the opposite of diverse casting.
So you're saying that offensive representation of a particular group in a particular piece of media is completely a-okay as long as there are other pieces of media that represent this particular group inoffensively? If i'm getting you correctly, that's not any of this works at all.
In a context of a film, I would agree, but when you can't see the 'actor', the only measurement of diversity we have is what their character looks and sounds like.
Example A: Voice actor Arjun will play the role of Alex, an Indian-American who grew up in Los Angeles and moved to Springfield to pursue acting.
Example B: Rick, a white-guy, will be playing Apu, an Indian with a thick accent who recently migrated to the States.
When it comes to cartoons, the latter would be a better example of diversity.
Diverse casting is not having 1 dude who can do 20 different voices, that is ridiculous.
You completely disregarded what I said below the segment you quoted. Krejlooc, we can exchange opinions or ignore each other's posts. I understand your concerns, but I don't agree with them. Arguably, my opinion is of little value considering I'm not Indian myself. However, I've said all I can say on the topic.
In what world existence of an argument equates to it's worth or merit?
That makes absolutely no sense. At the end of the day, a white dude is still voicing an Indian man when you could just get an Indian actor to voice Apu. How would having a Indian American be less of an example of diversity?
the second half of your post didn't convey any new arguments that I didn't address. Actually, it ignored my previous post explaining to you the difference between having a diverse cast and having diverse casting (and I disagree that having an immigrant Indian is some more "more" diverse of a cast than having an Indian American).
To make it simple - when talking about "casting" you are talking about the actors. When you are talking about cast, you are talking about the characters. No amount of what-ifs about the characters being played will make the casting, i.e. the actors playing those characters, diverse.
It's funny how the people that piss and moan about people being too sensitive frequently highlight their projection by whining about echo chambers and people being intolerant of their dissenting opinions.
If many of you don't care about people that are sick of dealing with stereotypes that they find harmful on a day to day basis, why should anyone care that a smaller number of people are laughing at you or calling you an idiot on a message board?
I mean afterall, there are more important things that that energy could be used for right?
If many of you don't care about people that are sick of dealing with stereotypes that they find harmful on a day to day basis, why should anyone care that a smaller number of people are laughing at you or calling you an idiot on a message board?
I mean afterall, there are more important things that that energy could be used for right?
Amazed but unsurprised that posters that don't see any harm in Apu are magically somehow taken aback by "Melanin deficiency"
Lmao cartoonishly oblivious as the idiots who scream about "outrage culture" and literally don't even know what they're talking about, forming their own opinions on feelings without addressing any criticism of the character actually made in the film. The trump position of uncritically taking the stance you believe is opposite from Obama's politics
Tools without the sack to form an educated opinion
Lmao cartoonishly oblivious as the idiots who scream about "outrage culture" and literally don't even know what they're talking about, forming their own opinions on feelings without addressing any criticism of the character actually made in the film. The trump position of uncritically taking the stance you believe is opposite from Obama's politics
Tools without the sack to form an educated opinion
Simpsons portrays russians and scots as uncivilised drunks? Oh, that's just white people making fun of each other, check you privilege you bigot.
Simpsons portrays indian as as a hard-working buisness owner? Wow, that's like fucking racist.
They really, truly have the perfect .GIF for everything!
... they also have a desperate desire to stay relevant seeing how that one writer built this up on Twitter, despite also refusing to change even in the face of blatant racism & treating that expectation like it's wrong to have.
Stereotypes of minorities are more harmful than stereotypes of non-minorities.
When they start getting the same burns and treatments that minorties have been getting for centuries, it's a fresh new experience that they don't like.
And no one has answered my question from a couple of pages back whether if Lou and Carl acted like black stereotypes would y'all still defend them.
