Crisium

Member
Oct 25, 2017
793
I'm figuring this out now, since I installed a 7600X yesterday. She runs hot. I looked it up to see if what I was getting was normal or if there was something wrong with my cooling install, but the general consensus is "it just runs like that". Most of the time, it's fine, but if I run something that's particularly CPU-intensive, it's getting toasty. Shader compilation during startup, for example. Once I got into the game, though, it was fine.

Although in my defense, the 7600X was on sale and was, at the time, cheaper than the 7600.

Look up PBO settings for it. Advanced Precision Boost Overdrive + Negative Curve Optimizer at 20 is basically always stable at single CCD X CPUs (7600X and 7700X) from what I have read. Many can hit Negative 30 as well, like my 7700X. You can also put a power limit for more efficiency but that's where it gets a little trickier and I'd look up some guides or really forget about it and just see if up to Negative 30 is stable.
 
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Oct 29, 2017
14,347
I have a question that I think could be posted here; I was trying to find the PC questions thread but I don't know if there is one.

Does anyone know if powerful GPUs will ever have the capability to shrink while retaining their power? Not necessarily to the size of a CPU but just… smaller? I don't know. This is kind of a question based on the dip into SFF by Nvidia. Essentially, could they ever take a 4090 and have the same power in a smaller format or will it always be a gigantic piece of hardware?
This occurs in two ways

1) During the same generation their professional cards are smaller in size because they are designed for multiple gpu configurations, so they limit the power and make them more efficient. They are unreasonably expensive and also don't beat the gaming cards in pure performance, think 80% the performance for cards using equivalent chips, but four or five times the price.

2) Across generations the xx70 range cards catch up to the previous flagship. The 4070 Super is equivalent in performance to the 3090 and uses 220 Watts instead of 350W. So coolers are normal size and nowhere as big as the ones the 3090s needed.

Something on the ballpark of the 5070 or 5070 Ti would likely not need the huge coolers of the 4090, but might be equivalent performance.

The thing is that Nvidia wants to have a gaming card that is at the top so if they keep making xx90s those will use as much power as it is reasonable just to make sure of it. It is not likely that there will be an air cooled xx90s that is small in size because the reason the xx90s cards exists is to squeeze everything out of it, which means huge power consumption that need huge coolers.

If they make a medium-sized flashing, they'll likely call it a xx80 and keep the option open for possible bigger cards if they lose the top spot.
 
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sackboy97

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,704
Italy
Hello everyone, I'm considering upgrading my PC within the next few months. I have a i5-8600 and a RTX2070 Super, with an LG 29UM68 monitor; I'm aiming (currently and after the potential upgrade) for 75Hz at 2560x1080 and I play a bit of everything (AAA and indie and everything in between).
If I wanted to upgrade my CPU I'm pretty sure I would have to basically build everything from scratch (i.e. a new mobo and potentially ram). Would that be worth it or would a new GPU make more sense?
 

brain_stew

Member
Oct 30, 2017
5,453
Hello everyone, I'm considering upgrading my PC within the next few months. I have a i5-8600 and a RTX2070 Super, with an LG 29UM68 monitor; I'm aiming (currently and after the potential upgrade) for 75Hz at 2560x1080 and I play a bit of everything (AAA and indie and everything in between).
If I wanted to upgrade my CPU I'm pretty sure I would have to basically build everything from scratch (i.e. a new mobo and potentially ram). Would that be worth it or would a new GPU make more sense?

You're looking at a full system rebuild I'm afraid.
 

Jerm

The Fallen
Oct 31, 2017
6,189
This occurs in two ways

1) During the same generation their professional cards are smaller in size because they are designed for multiple gpu configurations, so they limit the power and make them more efficient. They are unreasonably expensive and also don't beat the gaming cards in pure performance, think 80% the performance for cards using equivalent chips, but four or five times the price.

2) Across generations the xx70 range cards catch up to the previous flagship. The 4070 Super is equivalent in performance to the 3090 and uses 220 Watts instead of 350W. So coolers are normal size and nowhere as big as the ones the 3090s needed.

Something on the ballpark of the 5070 or 5070 Ti would likely not need the huge coolers of the 4090, but might be equivalent performance.

The thing is that Nvidia wants to have a gaming card that is at the top so if they keep making xx90s those will use as much power as it is reasonable just to make sure of it. It is not likely that there will be an air cooled xx90s that is small in size because the reason the xx90s cards exists is to squeeze everything out of it, which means huge power consumption that need huge coolers.

If they make a medium-sized flashing, they'll likely call it a xx80 and keep the option open for possible bigger cards if they lose the top spot.

Thank you so much, this is a excellent and thorough answer!
 

eddy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,950
New Ryzen CPUs On Sale late July, confirmed. AM5 platform support "through 2027".

LEPEi8X.png


 
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XDDX

Member
Oct 26, 2017
959
How soon would a 9800X3D come out, next year at the earliest?
They can probably release them when they want to. If the intel chips are good then AMD can simply release the 3D chips when the intel CPU's come out. If the Intel chips aren't competitive then maybe early next year as you said.
 

Jedi2016

Member
Oct 27, 2017
17,488
Also need to pay attention to the chip details and performance of each different CPU. The 7800X3D was the fastest, but it shouldn't have been. The 7900/7950X3D didn't optimize the multi-chiplet design, and ended up losing high-end performance as a result. It remains to be seen whether they'll make that mistake this time around. So lots of reviews and breakdowns to read/watch when those CPUs drop.

I'm in that market myself.. just bought an AM5 mobo, so I can just drop in the new X3D chips whenever they release.
 

Arex

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,067
Indonesia
2027, cool maybe I'll be able to upgrade my Ryzen 7900 to 11900X3D or something in 2026/27 XD

It's good enough for now lol
 

Crisium

Member
Oct 25, 2017
793
Ooo AM5 thru 2027! That hopefully means Zen 6 in 2026 and Zen 6 X3D in 2027.

And I would expect 9800X3D in February - April time frame. But i also agree AMD could move up its release earlier if Intel's new chips smash the 7800X3D in gaming (while the 9700X will be faster in everything else, it looks to be overall a step slower in gaming).

Also it looks like they are solving the X overvolted out of the box problem that 7000 series had. 7700X is rated for 105W-142W (TDP-MTP), while 9700X is rated for 65W-88W. If it stays below 100W in full 16 threaded applications that's huge. Essentially negates the need for a non-X series, if true, unless they want something really low power like 45W-65W rating.
 
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Reinhard

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,841
Is there a good guide to configuring the 7800X3D, particularly with MSI BIOS?
There really isn't that much to do. Make sure for memory you have Expo enabled and you can set tighter memory timings if you so wish. Potentially disable the iGPU since you likely aren't using it and no real benefit to having it enabled. Finally, go to Precision Boost Overdrive settings and go to Curve Optimizer. You can try setting all cores to -20 for undervolting and be done with it. If you want potentially a little better boost, test which cores can handle -30 undervolt. If you use Ryzen Master in Windows, it will tell you your best two cores, those should be at -20 (your most powerful cores need more power, so less of an undervolt). Then I used Core Cycler to test stability and found 1 other core that was unstable at -30 so I then set it to -20, the remaining 5 cores are at -30.

If you are going the easy route of -20 to all cores, you still will want to test for stability with something like CoreCycler just to be safe. Some people get unlucky and can't even support -20 undervolt to all cores. If that happens, you may need to set some of the cores to anywhere between 0 to -15, whatever gives stability. I would probably try -10 first if -20 fails for that core.
 
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Ashes of Dreams

Fallen Guardian of Unshakable Resolve
Member
May 22, 2020
16,831
Hey all. I mentioned a few pages back that I was trying to help my friend pick their first PC. He's going to go prebuilt for various reasons and linked me two computers, asking to compare them. I did my best to do so but I'm kinda hoping to get some more opinions on them from people more knowledgeable than me. I know more about this stuff than he does but I'm still far from an expert.

So these are the two computers.


Legion Tower 5i Gen 8 (Intel) with RTX 4070

ww-single-model-gaming-desktops-default

Comparing the CPUs, I note that the lenovo has an i7 while the corsair has an i5, but the i5 is a newer generation, so they seem about comparable. I'd probably opt for the newer i5 here, but I don't think either is going to bottleneck their CPUs. Obviously the Corsair has more RAM too and in general just seems like a slightly better machine. But I recommended not going with the 4060.

They are looking to do PC gaming, they ideally want 4K but I'm going to try and suggest opting for 1440p with these GPUs, they are coming from being a pure console gamer so they never cared about frame rate before, but they've also never seen 1440p at 120fps, you know? But they are also looking to run some intensive modeling softwares and will probably be running a lot of things at once.

I suggested maybe going with the higher Corsair, with the 4070 Super:

But I think the extra $500 might be a deal-breaker for them, especially since it's still using the same i5.
What do you all think? Open to other suggestions too. Of course we are both aware that any prebuilt will be overpriced.
 

Lemstar

Member
Oct 25, 2017
840
What do you all think? Open to other suggestions too. Of course we are both aware that any prebuilt will be overpriced.
the 4060 is a nonstarter

think the Lenovo prebuilt with a better GPU is preferable to the stronger CPU https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/p/desk...eries-towers/legion-tower-5-gen-8-(26l,-amd)/,

out of stock but has been ~$1500 several times this past month, may be worth waiting for https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/p/desk...rs/legion-tower-5-gen-8-(26l,-amd)/90ux0013us

real budget prebuilt option https://www.microcenter.com/product/676226/powerspec-g517-gaming-pc
 

Ashes of Dreams

Fallen Guardian of Unshakable Resolve
Member
May 22, 2020
16,831
the 4060 is a nonstarter

think the Lenovo prebuilt with a better GPU is preferable to the stronger CPU https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/p/desk...eries-towers/legion-tower-5-gen-8-(26l,-amd)/,

out of stock but has been ~$1500 several times this past month, may be worth waiting for https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/p/desk...rs/legion-tower-5-gen-8-(26l,-amd)/90ux0013us

real budget prebuilt option https://www.microcenter.com/product/676226/powerspec-g517-gaming-pc
Yeah that out of stock one would be good. No indication of it coming back any time soon though, yeah?
Do you think the Corsair with the 4070 Super is worth the extra $500 (keeping in mind prebuilt tax), like is there anything beyond the 4060 itself that makes the Corsair a nonstarter? The i5 not good enough? I don't want to steer him towards a more expensive purchase and have it not be worth it.
 

Lemstar

Member
Oct 25, 2017
840
Yeah that out of stock one would be good. No indication of it coming back any time soon though, yeah?
Do you think the Corsair with the 4070 Super is worth the extra $500 (keeping in mind prebuilt tax), like is there anything beyond the 4060 itself that makes the Corsair a nonstarter? The i5 not good enough? I don't want to steer him towards a more expensive purchase and have it not be worth it.
At the $2k+ price range you can easily get a 4080 Super, and if they're interested in 4K that power's not going to waste

here's one I put together at $2100 after promo code https://www.cyberpowerpc.com/saved/1T457K

(for the record, I do not recommend doing that, I don't think going up from the ~1500 range for something in the 4070 family is worthwhile)
 
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Ashes of Dreams

Fallen Guardian of Unshakable Resolve
Member
May 22, 2020
16,831
At the $2k+ price range you can easily get a 4080 Super, and if they're interested in 4K that power's not going to waste

here's one I put together at $2100 after promo code https://www.cyberpowerpc.com/saved/1T457K

(for the record, I do not recommend doing that, I don't think going up from the ~1500 range for something in the 4070 family is worthwhile)
Do they build this themselves and send it to you or do you need to put it together?
 

Lemstar

Member
Oct 25, 2017
840
Alright, I showed the build you saved to my friend. It's a little intimidating and confusing, but this website is legit and good? Like you think this is a better bet than the Corsair?
I think most system integrators have some kind of horror story that leads to the poster recommending that whoever's asking build one themselves. They've been in business for a long time, though; they're definitely not some sketchy outfit.

For what it's worth, my personal experience with them is that I picked up an off the shelf budget prebuilt as a stopgap that ended up lasting five years before moving to the living room after quarantine pricing eased off enough for a new PC, so my opinion of them is favorable.
 

ChitonIV

Member
Nov 14, 2021
2,790
Alright, I showed the build you saved to my friend. It's a little intimidating and confusing, but this website is legit and good? Like you think this is a better bet than the Corsair?
Corsair is great.
They will most likely cost more. However, you will also likely get a corsair power supply, case, and SSD in the build. All of which are top/near top of the class in their respective segments.
Corsair also has good fans. I think there are better when it comes to noise/performance. However, their RGB quality tends to be some of the very best.

Cyberpower is a good option. Especially for budget conscious builds, which still use real parts. I.E. you won't get a proprietary motherboard or an OEM gpu.
 

Ashes of Dreams

Fallen Guardian of Unshakable Resolve
Member
May 22, 2020
16,831
He ended up going with a slightly modified version of the cyberpower one. Thanks for the help.
 

maximumzero

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,680
New Orleans, LA
I keep kicking around the idea of building a living room Gaming PC, but no matter what I slot in, I'm still coming in around $1000, which is more than I was willing to spend.

I guess the days of decent $600-$750 Gaming PCs are long behind us.

Edit: Maybe I should just live with the performance loss and put together an APU build in a an ASRock Deskmini or Irwin Chopin.
 

Brat-Sampson

Member
Nov 16, 2017
3,848
Weird picky comments here but away we go.

So I finally bit the bullet and upgraded to an Asus Dual 4070s, love it, the boost is fantastic, DLSS is a technical marvel etc etc etc.

But the thing only connected to my PSU (Corsair RM 850X) via 2x 8-pin PCIe connectors into the adaptor it comes with. Which is... ok, if a little awkward. Then I turn the PC off and there's a red light on. Constantly. By the power connector. I do the research and it seems this is by design if you use the adaptor:
d10c9e7c-8a16-4945-adea-c0b9cd94494b.default.png

If you use a NATIVE corsair / other brand cable, the light will go off, but if you don't, that little bugger will be on permanently so long as the PC is off with a power cable connected, which with my setup is pretty annoying. And native cables cost like $30 here, so it's not a small extra expense.

I also have an issue where turning on my second monitor (connected by HDMI) sometimes causes the first (connected by display port) to go dark / flicker / generally stop working until I disconnect and reconnect the cable etc. I read it could be a result of inrush current but that I might need a new cable for that too.

So yeah, not unsolvable issues but definitely put a blemish on an otherwise excellent purchase. Just whining I guess / wondering why the heck Asus put a red light on the board that you have to pay Corsair to turn off.
 

ChitonIV

Member
Nov 14, 2021
2,790
I keep kicking around the idea of building a living room Gaming PC, but no matter what I slot in, I'm still coming in around $1000, which is more than I was willing to spend.

I guess the days of decent $600-$750 Gaming PCs are long behind us.

Edit: Maybe I should just live with the performance loss and put together an APU build in a an ASRock Deskmini or Irwin Chopin.
My suggestion is always "move your existing computer into the living room, for a gaming session."
 

ChitonIV

Member
Nov 14, 2021
2,790
Weird picky comments here but away we go.

So I finally bit the bullet and upgraded to an Asus Dual 4070s, love it, the boost is fantastic, DLSS is a technical marvel etc etc etc.

But the thing only connected to my PSU (Corsair RM 850X) via 2x 8-pin PCIe connectors into the adaptor it comes with. Which is... ok, if a little awkward. Then I turn the PC off and there's a red light on. Constantly. By the power connector. I do the research and it seems this is by design if you use the adaptor:
d10c9e7c-8a16-4945-adea-c0b9cd94494b.default.png

If you use a NATIVE corsair / other brand cable, the light will go off, but if you don't, that little bugger will be on permanently so long as the PC is off with a power cable connected, which with my setup is pretty annoying. And native cables cost like $30 here, so it's not a small extra expense.

I also have an issue where turning on my second monitor (connected by HDMI) sometimes causes the first (connected by display port) to go dark / flicker / generally stop working until I disconnect and reconnect the cable etc. I read it could be a result of inrush current but that I might need a new cable for that too.

So yeah, not unsolvable issues but definitely put a blemish on an otherwise excellent purchase. Just whining I guess / wondering why the heck Asus put a red light on the board that you have to pay Corsair to turn off.
Put some electrical tape over the light.

Try moving to a different display port, before buying new cables.
 
Sep 19, 2019
2,800
Hamburg- Germany
I keep kicking around the idea of building a living room Gaming PC, but no matter what I slot in, I'm still coming in around $1000, which is more than I was willing to spend.

I guess the days of decent $600-$750 Gaming PCs are long behind us.

Edit: Maybe I should just live with the performance loss and put together an APU build in a an ASRock Deskmini or Irwin Chopin.

Depends on what you consider a decent gaming PC ?
 

Sanctuary

Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,083
Unless I'm reading it wrong, looking at the changes Lunar Lake is bringing, many of which should carry over to Arrow Lake, it looks like they might finally be competing with AMD in terms of efficiency, and without sacrificing the actual power of the CPU.

Cyberpower is a good option. Especially for budget conscious builds, which still use real parts. I.E. you won't get a proprietary motherboard or an OEM gpu.

This isn't meant to deter anything, it's just an anecdotal experience.

The very first PC I owned was a custom prebuilt I had made from Cyberpower at the start of '00. I had to send it back twice due to motherboard issues. This of course was not long after the company had first been up and running, so they were still going through their initial teething process. I don't doubt many things have changed for the better over the course of the last two decades (especially since they're still around with good word of mouth), but that experience was also what had me decide to try building my own whenever it was time to upgrade a few years later.

That was my first and last AMD CPU (Athlon K7), and first and last prebuilt. At the time too, it seemed very expensive, and after that I was building similar, or better PCs for two-thirds of the cost. Those days are long gone now though.
 

arrado

Member
Jan 1, 2020
1,787
I keep kicking around the idea of building a living room Gaming PC, but no matter what I slot in, I'm still coming in around $1000, which is more than I was willing to spend.

I guess the days of decent $600-$750 Gaming PCs are long behind us.

Edit: Maybe I should just live with the performance loss and put together an APU build in a an ASRock Deskmini or Irwin Chopin.
Something like this is still quite capable: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/L8mKt7
 

DocScroll

Member
May 25, 2021
568
Following the installation of my 5800X3D and updated firmware I've had tpm notification on the bios on boot up. As my system did not have tpm previously do I need to take any precautions or should I go ahead and let it set up tpm via the motherboard firmware?
 

Jedi2016

Member
Oct 27, 2017
17,488
So pushing USB 4.0 on these new motherboards... what devices do we have that can even plug into them? Seems they're kind of pointless right now?
 

mdf/markus

Member
Oct 30, 2017
541
Is there a good guide to configuring the 7800X3D, particularly with MSI BIOS?

I've put together a 7800X3D build with a MSI B650 Tomahawk about 2 months ago.
Besides enabling EXPO & I also tried out the curve optimizer, though I finally ended up not setting a negative offset, as it didn't really do much for performance besides Cinebench on my end. And my CPU didn't like -20 all core.

One thing you could check in your BIOS setting is the SOC voltage. Sudden temperature spikes are normal with the 7800X3D, but I found out that the SOC voltage was a bit high on my MSI board once I enabled EXPO. By default (with EXPO) it set 1.3v SOC. Most other manufacturers set the value around 1.25v, which should be a more relaxed value in the long run.


Two other settings you could check are Resizeable BAR (on) and turn off iGPU.

There are 1 or 2 settings that reduce boot up time with EXPO enabled, but I have not yet played around with that stuff.
 
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ChitonIV

Member
Nov 14, 2021
2,790
So pushing USB 4.0 on these new motherboards... what devices do we have that can even plug into them? Seems they're kind of pointless right now?
It's a competitor to Thunderbolt. There aren't a lot of thunderbolt devices.
USB4 might see wider use, if the fees are less and the hardware is cheaper.

Otherwise, it will probably only be used in high end cameras, premium versions of external storage, etc.

A new high end build should still get one of the new mobos, to maximize RAM speeds for Zen 5 and eventually, 6.
 

setsuna

Member
Aug 16, 2023
34
Yeah. Or I could try moonlight/sunshine again.

Or maybe even pay someone to run Ethernet around the house.

If your requirements are small, I'd seriously consider a dockable device (Steam Deck works very very well as a low latency client, others exist. Deck has some limitations) with a decent APU and just setup a Moonlight setup. It'll save you money. You won't have to reconfigure certain games if you don't want to (without Cloud sync or whatever) and you can "detach" an existing game session back and forth onto the main gaming PC.

Occasionally, things don't behave well on Moonlight or the game is super ping sensitive (rhythm games) in which case a decent APU should be a good fallback.

Good luck!
 

Minamu

Member
Nov 18, 2017
1,930
Sweden
I'm looking for a new keyboard :/ I want a white fullsize mechanical one, but I can't find many of those around, are there any recommendations? It's mainly for gaming but also some workstation stuff, nothing too fancy. RGB is nice.

I found one called Ducky One 3 Aura fullwhite, but I can't tell if it's any good (expensive though, yikes).
 

I Don't Like

Member
Dec 11, 2017
15,410
Following the installation of my 5800X3D and updated firmware I've had tpm notification on the bios on boot up. As my system did not have tpm previously do I need to take any precautions or should I go ahead and let it set up tpm via the motherboard firmware?

What's the notification? If this is a windows 10 machine you don't need TPM at all, unless you want to use bitlocker I guess.
 
Oct 29, 2017
14,347
I'm looking for a new keyboard :/ I want a white fullsize mechanical one, but I can't find many of those around, are there any recommendations? It's mainly for gaming but also some workstation stuff, nothing too fancy. RGB is nice.

I found one called Ducky One 3 Aura fullwhite, but I can't tell if it's any good (expensive though, yikes).
Keychron K10 Pro has a white option. And it is a little less than Ducky.
 

trailmix16

Member
Oct 26, 2017
711
is it generally a waste of money to try and replace a high tb (>7tb) hdd with an sdd or nvme? All the options ive seen are like 600$
 

setsuna

Member
Aug 16, 2023
34
is it generally a waste of money to try and replace a high tb (>7tb) hdd with an sdd or nvme? All the options ive seen are like 600$

This question isn't very useful in a vaccum. In general, flash storage is better for most general purpose computing tasks and gaming but that doesn't _mean you'll notice_. You can find plenty of comparisons online. You should be shopping based on the games you play and the amount of fast storage you need.

Most of us use both if we need a lot of storage. My personal setup:

* 30TB NAS (with Steam Cache for easy reinstall of games)
* 2TB NVME (game)
* 1TB NVME (boot / game)

I play a lot of MMOs and for those really large games on slower internet, I archive them to the NAS and pull them back in. This is more than enough. A lot of those "very large games" I seldomly play and can simply copy back in advance at 100MB/s when needed.
 

ChitonIV

Member
Nov 14, 2021
2,790
is it generally a waste of money to try and replace a high tb (>7tb) hdd with an sdd or nvme? All the options ive seen are like 600$
Generally, larger, single drives like that, are for archiving. So in theory, the speed of an SSD isn't the point.
Needing NVME speed at that capacity is very niche. And thats part of why they cost so much----not as many are made.

And for 8TB it's ~$160 for a new HDD. And like $600 for a SATA SSD and $800+ for NVME.

Better option for SSD, would be two 4TB SSD. You can get 4TB NVME with solid performance, for around $240. SATA for a little less.

If you have the physical space to raid two 8TB HDD, you can create something which would feel fast enough (similar to a SATA SSD) for typical multimedia file storage/consumption use, have 16TB, And come in at about $320.
 
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