The Legend of Zelda: Echoes of Wisdom announced, releases September 26 (Zelda is the main character)

[Coocoo Bandicoot]

Saying it's "unnecessary to be demeaning" yet indirectly comparing female protagonists to animals by using the term "declawing" seems a little weird if we're being honest.

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You are getting hung up on semantics (which is an odd way to try derail my point instead of trying to actually understand what I am trying to convey), on top of the fact that you ignore the possibility that I may, in fact, be directly affected by sexism from being a closeted transmasculine person and therefore might use charged language you might not be used to because of personal experience. I stand by what I said and the way I worded myself. You're free to feel however you want about that.

 

[Rouk']

Yeah. I've never played a 2D-Zelda and been excited by the combat. The part where Link swings a sword is the least interesting part of any 2D-Zelda game to me.

I get that there is sexist trope about women being more passive, and I 100% get where people are coming from with seeing zelda as more passive than link. But, I just personally do not care about swinging swords in games like this, and I am way more exited about having more creative problem solving, and combat, tools.

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Also, "creative combat solving and combat tools" is, well, the exact direction Nintendo took with BotW and TotK.
So it makes sense.

Though BotW and TotK also showed that's it perfectly possible to have both that and regular sword swinging.

 

[Khanimus]

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[Foltzie]

Zelda x Scribblenauts looks like fun.

 

[louisacommie]

Hope the return of Deku Scrubs is permanent, first 3d model hd appearance since sonic lost world

 

[Aprikurt]

I absolutely adored the diorama Link's Awakening remake style, so I'm just glad it's back.

Also, first original top-down Zelda since A Link Between Worlds (which wasn't entirely original anyway). Elite.

 

[Captain Melody]

What was wrong with Peach showtime? I haven't played it but the trailers had her use a bunch of different weapons?

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She does. She has multiple roles where she attacks traditionally, so it's weird having people in this thread act as if this doesn't happen in the game. The game has multiple variations of combat Peach, it's not as if the entire thing is baking and nothing else.

 

[PlanetSmasher]

I like this though. It looks like a puzzle adventure, so combat is gonna be a little unconventional. Also, throwing random things is fun.

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I think the thing that gets me is just that this is the first time Zelda's been the main playable character in a (Nintendo-made) Zelda game and it bums me out that they can't even give her some kind of close combat emergency button that she can rely on. If this was like the third or fourth Zelda-lead game, go nuts! Do all kinds of wacky shit! Reinvent the whole format!

But since this is the first time in 40 years that Zelda has been the lead, I was just really hoping Zelda's first foray as the main protagonist would give her the full range of Zelda activities, recontextualized around her expertise. There are SO MANY different weapons or fighting styles Zelda could use to differentiate herself considerably from Link while still maintaining some degree of direct defensive mechanics. I really think that giving her a suite of elementally-aspected orbs that she can fling out and attack with would single-handedly widen her capabilities and even FEED INTO the Echo system by giving her an extra way to manipulate the field mechanically. Lighting things on fire, freezing or electrifying shallow water, gravity-dragging flying enemies down to the ground, etc. And it would give her an "oh shit" panic button for emergencies.

And speaking for me personally, I have never found the "command a troop of AI drones to do most of the fighting for you while you hide in the back praying enemies don't get close to you because you're utterly helpless on your own" gameplay loop satisfying in any game. I absolutely hated playing as V in DMCV for the exact same reason. It's just not a gameplay format I personally find fun and I really hope there are all kinds of options in this game for combat that don't rely on "summon some ghosts and then run away while they do most of the work".

I hope that makes sense. I was really excited for a Zelda game and I absolutely think there is a way to give her direct defensive options that doesn't just rely on copy-pasting Link's exact moves on top of her. Her movesets in Hyrule Warriors all speak to this, for example. She had some of the coolest ones!

 

[Kyuuji]

Hopefully this is the start of further Zelda led games and future ones come closer to what those who are disappointed wanted. I'd have taken a BotW style Zelda-led release as well, I think there's absolutely a place for it and I hope it comes. She deserves the reigns on one of the large scale ones, and I'd probably be even more excited for it than I am now lol. Though I'd beg for some sort of familiar/animal companion you can choose!

I do like this a lot tho! It looks creative and a novel take on the various elements like crafting and taming. A magic wielding, bed-stacking, 'figure this shit out in increasingly unhinged ways' Zelda is also my (future) queen

 

[ManNR]

I am loving the creative freedom this game promises. And the map looks massive. Very excited.

Edit: we also don't know for sure that Zelda won't have some direct attack options. In fact, you see her using a cannon at one point so I can easily imagine other "echoes" that allow her to more directly attack enemies.

 

[Drachen]

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NuZora in the LA style is super cute I gotta say

 

[Zafir]

People keep talking about "valid feedback" and "valid criticism" but I think the problem is a fundamental difference in views of validity!

I find a lot of this discussion to be wholly premature and less "well we'll see" than complaints about a game that has only had a small aspect of its hook revealed without a full gameplay dive. I think it's somewhat fair to wonder how deep this combat is and if Zelda is only going to be playing from the backline (though seeing her with a canon on her head makes me question that as well), but I don't think that's the tone of a lot of these complaints, which read as if the game already came out! Yes, you can only judge a game by what's shown, but I also think we owe ourselves the ability to understand the context of the trailer and what it was trying to get across.

I get being anxious and wanting Zelda to hold her own, but I think the reason some people are coming across as demeaning is because they're imagining a different game than you based on what was shown.

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You'd be right if Nintendo actually had a great track record with these characters, but they kind of don't? Of course people are going to be sceptical? They've not earned anyones trust yet.

 

[Phabh]

Great surprise. Crazy we get 2 Zelda games this late in the console cycle. Bring on the emergent gameplay.

 

[Fnnrqwin]

Never been a fan of 2D Zelda combat so that alone would have me excited enough for this.

 

[Tavernade]

Rewatched the trailer on a bigger screen than my phone and noticed (what I'm sure has already been pointed out) the echoes have different point values and those are deducted from the fairy's tail of triangles as you use them.

Also it seems a little sus that there's a full set of buttons on the left but only the staff is set to anything.

 

[LinkStrikesBack]

this started as an ALTTP remake hasn't it?

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No, that was link between worlds.

It seems pretty likely that the origin of this game was them wanting to take the 2d Botw tech demo they used to try out ideas and wanting to make a full standalone game out of it.

 

[InfiniDragon]

Hopefully this is the start of further Zelda led games and future ones come closer to what those who are disappointed wanted. I'd have taken a BotW style Zelda-led release as well, I think there's absolutely a place for it and I hope it comes. She deserves the reigns on one of the large scale ones, and I'd probably be even more excited for it than I am now lol. Though I'd beg for some sort of familiar/animal companion you can choose!

I do like this a lot tho! It looks creative and a novel take on the various elements like crafting and taming. A magic wielding, bed-stacking, 'figure this shit out in increasingly unhinged ways' Zelda is also my (future) queen

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I wanted a Zelda game in BotW world too (because that's the best written version of Zelda by a lot IMO) but I knew Nintendo wasn't gonna budge there, they tripled down on the "she's a scientist not a warrior" speech with that version even after Age of Calamity showed they could do it.

 

[o Tesseract]

Love this. Excited to play it and my daughters will be excited that it's playable Zelda. I won't like that I want a more action-focused game like Seasons, and the beginning of the trailer really made me think we're getting a new Link game. Nintendo, do both!!

 

[Lua]

I hope there are dungeons and stuff. I dont mind the combat being like this, if anything it is a cool idea and it could let you be more creative.

But i really, really hope there are dungeons.

 

[Tbm24]

There's nothing wrong with wanting to play as a woman bearing The Hero's Spirit. But that's not Zelda and has never been Zelda and what people asked for was playable Zelda. It's not surprising that the people who asked for playable Zelda and meant Zelda are taking issue with the people who asked for playable Zelda and meant The Hero's Spirit in a woman.

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There's no real reason to pigeon hold Zelda as a character that way but I digress. I've been on forums for literal decades where people have expressed wanting to play as Zelda instead of Link doing all the cool shit that Link that. I understand the conversation being had over that, but it's valid that people wanted to do that. It's valid that people are now disappointed at after all these fucking years a Nintendo produced Zelda game staring Zelda doesn't let them do that. I don't see a need for people to be condescending about it.

It's a reveal trailer and this is the reveal thread. Folks are reacting presumably honestly. If this is the prevailing conversation in the official thread for this game then sure go off how it's misplaced.

 

[vio55555]

I think the thing that gets me is just that this is the first time Zelda's been the main playable character in a (Nintendo-made) Zelda game and it bums me out that they can't even give her some kind of close combat emergency button that she can rely on. If this was like the third or fourth Zelda-lead game, go nuts! Do all kinds of wacky shit! Reinvent the whole format!

But since this is the first time in 40 years that Zelda has been the lead, I was just really hoping Zelda's first foray as the main protagonist would give her the full range of Zelda activities, recontextualized around her expertise. There are SO MANY different weapons or fighting styles Zelda could use to differentiate herself considerably from Link while still maintaining some degree of direct defensive mechanics. I really think that giving her a suite of elementally-aspected orbs that she can fling out and attack with would single-handedly widen her capabilities and even FEED INTO the Echo system by giving her an extra way to manipulate the field mechanically. And it would give her an "oh shit" panic button for emergencies.

And speaking for me personally, I have never found the "command a troop of AI drones to do most of the fighting for you while you hide in the back praying enemies don't get close to you because you're utterly helpless on your own" gameplay loop satisfying in any game. I absolutely hated playing as V in DMCV for the exact same reason. It's just not a gameplay format I personally find fun and I really hope there are all kinds of options in this game for combat that don't rely on "summon some ghosts and then run away while they do most of the work".

I hope that makes sense. I was really excited for a Zelda game and I absolutely think there is a way to give her direct defensive options that doesn't just rely on copy-pasting Link's exact moves on top of her. Her movesets in Hyrule Warriors all speak to this, for example. She had some of the coolest ones!

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But we literally don't know any of that yet.

The only reason they showcased the conjuring/creativity is because that's where this becomes like the transition to open world Zelda for the 2D games (i.e. old LA to this new style of gameplay that evolves from BotW/TotK).

We're just watching a trailer that showed very little of the game; there probably will be some form of close combat in the game. It just won't be the main thing but that has less to do with the lead being Zelda than with the game being evolved from BotW/TotK.

 

[B-Dubs]

Rewatched the trailer on a bigger screen than my phone and noticed (what I'm sure has already been pointed out) the echoes have different point values and those are deducted from the fairy's tail of triangles as you use them.

Also it seems a little sus that there's a full set of buttons on the left but only the staff is set to anything.

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That's because this was just a teaser and barely showed us anything. I imagine we'll get another direct closer to the release with way more information.

 

[Kyuuji]

I wanted a Zelda game in BotW world too (because that's the best written version of Zelda by a lot IMO) but I knew Nintendo wasn't gonna budge there, they tripped down on the "she's a scientist not a warrior" speech with that version even after Age of Calamity showed they could do it.

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We'll get a monster tracking, dagger and poison wielding Zelda one day.

 

[Lotus]

What was wrong with Peach showtime? I haven't played it but the trailers had her use a bunch of different weapons?

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That was different in that while yea they had her donning cool outfits and powers, the main game was extremely simple, even compared to the likes of something like Kirby. So it came across as a bit of a slight that the first game in forever focusing on Peach conveniently felt so kiddy-like. Now I do say main game because it did have some post game challenges like not getting hit (though I didn't bother w/ them), but yea, it still felt weird.

She does. She has multiple roles where she attacks traditionally, so it's weird having people in this thread act as if this doesn't happen in the game. The game has multiple variations of combat Peach, it's not as if the entire thing is baking and nothing else.

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Read above. I dunno about others, but that wasn't what I was getting at.

 

[St. Eam the 3rd]

? Do you mean Four Swords coming to NSO?

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Yes, Thank you!I'm not familiar with that game but Pretty sure Direct talks about randomized dungeons and online Multiplayer, can't rewatch right now, but on paper that seems a ton of fun and something me and SO would love

 

[Malenia]

Is PlanetSmasher going to ruin every thread about this game like he is with every other game he hates?

 

[Giga Man]

I think my only concern right now is how many echoes you can carry in your inventory at once and if the menu ui will be unmanageable like TOTK when selecting shit to throw or attach to arrows.

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The rifts must be causing some timeline fuckery.

 

[effzee]

This looks phenomenal! I can't wait to buy it and then not play for 6-8 months and then finally get to it after I finish all the other games I haven't touched yet

 

[Derbel McDillet]

You are getting hung up on semantics (which is an odd way to try derail my point instead of trying to actually understand what I am trying to convey), on top of the fact that you ignore the possibility that I may, in fact, be directly affected by sexism from being a closeted transmasculine person and therefore might use charged language you might not be used to because of personal experience. I stand by what I said and the way I worded myself. You're free to feel however you want about that.

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Seeing people flip your point and some of the criticism to "well actually you're the sexists for even wanting direct combat" is certainly a sight.

 

[Stencil]

This looks SO good. Happy to see them get more use out of this engine. And I love that it's (seemingly?) in the LTTP map, I love revisiting that one! Lots of nostalgia and I look forward to seeing how they've changed things up, I loved that about ALBW too!

 

[NicoNicoRose]

Now make the next BotW-like have a select-able Link or Linkle, you cowards.

(also Princess Peach Showtime is a lot of fun)

 

[Ry.]

Puzzle forward Zelda 2D adventure game staring the queen herself? This is so awesome, can't wait to play this on the Switch 2.

 

[solidstatesurvivor]

Day one baby, thank you Nintendo gods for another 2D Zelda but this time starring Zelda??? So hype

 

[PlanetSmasher]

This looks SO good. Happy to see them get more use out of this engine. And I love that it's (seemingly?) in the LTTP map, I love revisiting that one! Lots of nostalgia and I look forward to seeing how they've changed things up, I loved that about ALBW too!

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Doesn't actually look all that much like the LTTP map to me, it looks like a new map that's kinda using the LA ENGINE but otherwise looks pretty distinct, hence the Deku Tree et al. I think it's probably a new setting rather than a reuse of a previous Hyrule.

 

[QuigleyMcShine]

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It's like when you see Worf next to TOS Klingons.

 

[The Adder]

It's a reveal trailer and this is the reveal thread. Folks are reacting presumably honestly.

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This goes both ways.

 

[delete12345]

The long awaited follow-up!

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HUHHHHH??? This is a remake of this game?

 

[TGB86]

Yeah. I've never played a 2D-Zelda and been excited by the combat. The part where Link swings a sword is the least interesting part of any 2D-Zelda game to me.

I get that there is sexist trope about women being more passive, and I 100% get where people are coming from with seeing zelda as more passive than link. But, I just personally do not care about swinging swords in games like this, and I am way more exited about having more creative problem solving, and combat, tools.

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Yeah, I guess I can understand the criticism from a gender stereotype perspective, but I think this is a product of the franchise originating nearly 40 years ago, and Nintendo being a heavily gameplay focused developer. There was never a chance that they were going to make a traditional Zelda game and just sub Zelda in for Link. The role reversal was always going to need to be justified by novel gameplay mechanics that distinguished it from Link's games.

I don't really understand the criticism from a gameplay perspective. The combat shown in this trailer looks far more dynamic than anything we've seen before in 2D Zelda, and it really looks like they've found an interesting compromise between the curated design of classic Zelda and the more free-form approach introduced by BOTW, where there isn't one prescribed answer to every puzzle. It looks really promising, to me.

 

[PlanetSmasher]

HUHHHHH??? This is a remake of this game?

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No. Nintendo would never even consider remaking those games. I don't even think they technically own the rights to them.

 

[Tbm24]

This goes both ways.

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It does, and I don't see any condescending attitude towards folks who like this. Point it out, maybe I missed it.

Is PlanetSmasher going to ruin every thread about this game like he is with every other game he hates?

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You should make use of the ignore function then.

 

[Coocoo Bandicoot]

People keep talking about "valid feedback" and "valid criticism" but I think the problem is a fundamental difference in views of validity!

I find a lot of this discussion to be wholly premature and less "well we'll see" than complaints about a game that has only had a small aspect of its hook revealed without a full gameplay dive. I think it's somewhat fair to wonder how deep this combat is and if Zelda is only going to be playing from the backline (though seeing her with a canon on her head makes me question that as well), but I don't think that's the tone of a lot of these complaints, which read as if the game already came out! Yes, you can only judge a game by what's shown, but I also think we owe ourselves the ability to understand the context of the trailer and what it was trying to get across.

I get being anxious and wanting Zelda to hold her own, but I think the reason some people are coming across as demeaning is because they're imagining a different game than you based on what was shown.

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I agree that it's wholly premature as well. Me chiming in with that was mostly because of seeing people be weirdly dismissive over this kind of feedback, reducing it into being about wanting nothing more than a link clone. Whether that be their intention or not, I can't quite say... I don't think less of them or anything, it's more that I think and hope that people could be more open-minded to others bringing in other facets and angles to the conversation without immediately shooting it down and framing it almost like we have to be grateful that we got a game featuring Zelda as a protag to begin with.

My girlfriend, who commented in this thread before with some kind of rude responses that ceased the moment she made it clear she was a woman, is in fact looking forward to playing it and we found the gimmick to be very charming. I can imagine there being ways where we will be able to see Zelda do more direct combat through shenanigans instead of just proxies based on the gimmick and the way it functions alone.

We do find it disheartening though to some extent when we take into account Aonuma's previous statements regarding her as a main protag and Nintendo. But again, I think that's the root of these worries and we're simply anxious to see how much those dated views on gender roles might affect the final thing.

I think the argument of this feedback having the tone of the game already being out can be extended out to the opposite side of the conversation as well. Like you say, it feels wholly premature and I just wish people wouldn't be so hasty to dismiss criticism.

 

[Stencil]

Doesn't actually look all that much like the LTTP map to me, it looks like a new map that's kinda using the LA ENGINE but otherwise looks pretty distinct, hence the Deku Tree et al. I think it's probably a new setting rather than a reuse of a previous Hyrule.

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I mean I saw that the Gerudo have a village now, and things will be different, but when they showed the map it looked to be a general translation of the LTTP layout? Maybe it was just wishful thinking on my part, I'd have to rewatch.

 

[Cassius Africanus]

Imagine complaining that zelda can't fire a little magic bolt or poke with a sword when she can do this

Link wishes he had this kind of self defence

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Because in the end it's not about the actual game we are getting. Some people are upset about not getting through game they wanted in their head. I love that Nintendo took the time to design Zelda completely unique from Link. If this proves popular, they have a foundation to build on for her being playable in the 3D Zeldas. Instead I think "some" see she is not a warrior like Link so somehow that makes her less than for some reason. What they're really done is show that Zelda can be just as capable as Link "without" using direct combat. That's so much more refreshing on my opinion.

 

[GreenMamba]

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Never thought I'd see both Zora types in the same game again.

 

[construct]

please let the framerate be good. going off the trailer it looks rough :\

 

[Tace]

I was thinking this too. Especially with some of OoT-era designs for other characters here (e.g. Deku Tree). Wouldn't be surprised if we find out one day that this game started off as Oracles remakes.


This is just straight up wrong lol

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Yeah it's been discussed, keep up lol

 

[Cappy]

Doesn't actually look all that much like the LTTP map to me, it looks like a new map that's kinda using the LA ENGINE but otherwise looks pretty distinct, hence the Deku Tree et al. I think it's probably a new setting rather than a reuse of a previous Hyrule.

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This actually kind of gave me pause on that. Some of the way the map looks seems like it is based on LTTP, or at least lines up with it a bit, but the Deku Tree being there is sort of different.

 

[Malenia]

It does, and I don't see any condescending attitude towards folks who like this. Point it out, maybe I missed it.



You should make use of the ignore function then.

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The ignore function is worthless when everyone constantly quotes them.

 

[Lightsong]

We're getting a new 2D Zelda after 11 years-
We're finally getting one where Zelda is the protagonsit and not a lame pallet swap of Link and it will be focused on puzzles.

And era still complains. Classic!

 

[Kcannon]

Honestly, my main complaint is that I don't really like the hood.

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Likely so Hyrule people don't recognize their ruler walking around and talking to them.