That was Hella dismissive of the posters point which is exactly what they were highlighting you proved their whole point
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The Guardian: "How white women use strategic tears to avoid accountability"
- Thread starter WrenchNinja
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White people built it, benefit from it, and keep it going but it's the responsibility for "all races" to join hands to end inequality? That's some privileged shit to be saying. People of color don't have the responsibility to do jack shit but fight the oppressive system if they feel the need.
White people need to acknowledge the system, acknowledge how bad it still is, and take responsibility for continuing to prop up said system. Then they need to take drastic steps to dismantle that system and keep acknowledging what's left as that process goes on. That's how you end inequality, not some kumbaya nonsense.
I don't really understand how "white people can take it" is all that valuable as a justification to be a dick. If I punched my roided out friend in the face, it would probably not even register as pain for him, but I'm sure he still appreciates the fact that... I don't punch him in the face.
But even ignoring that, why the need to deny others the right to be insulted by your insult? If you think "white people are shit" is a correct statement that is worth verbalizing, like, stand by it and bath in all of its insulting glory instead of pretending to be entirely confused why people look funny at you for saying it? It's not like society at large is going to chastise you for it and we have already established white people can take it anyway. So why play silly mind games like: "why do you take the insult as an insult though?" Really now.
But even ignoring that, why the need to deny others the right to be insulted by your insult? If you think "white people are shit" is a correct statement that is worth verbalizing, like, stand by it and bath in all of its insulting glory instead of pretending to be entirely confused why people look funny at you for saying it? It's not like society at large is going to chastise you for it and we have already established white people can take it anyway. So why play silly mind games like: "why do you take the insult as an insult though?" Really now.
Uh, first of all, I don't have many friends at all, uh, so checkmate.
Second of all, "they know you'll react this way", I wonder what this means. Do you think I'd react "this way" to my black / hispanic / asian friends wh would say this? None of them ever have. I don't think most of them shitpost on ResetEra. I don't think they'd be my friends, if they were. I prefer more wittier people. Although if they were just venting and not fighting over saying a meaningless statement I wouldn't really care.
Third of all,
Uh, anyway, I wouldn't, because I have different, better ways to get into someone's ass.
No, of course they do.
Do you really need any understanding of politics to know that if your kid is advocating genocide something probably went wrong and you shouldn't be okay with that?
User Banned (3 Days): Drive-by post. History of inflammatory/provocative comments.
I be drinking white tears all day long.
As I already explained, that's not how human beings work. Very few people are 100% committed to a cause, especially if they're not directly affected by it. If you only want those people, go ahead, but then don't be surprised if your numbers are few. Would it be better if more people were really committed to the cause? Sure. But that's not the reality. It sucks, but that's how it is. Now you can try to change things with the people you have 100% committed to the cause, or you can try to get those on board who are just slightly sympathetic to it. Whether you want to do that or think it's even helpful is your call. I personally can only say that nudging people in the right direction worked much better for me than trying the heads-on approach.
That's an argument politicians here use to state that there is no such thing as poverty, because people elsewhere have it far worse.
Let me know if I am interpreting you incorrectly, but I agree with this. As a white person who grew up in a town of ~800 people in North Dakota, I had to actively fight against all of the shitty negative stereotypes about POC that are just accepted as truth. No one in my small town thought they were racist. There was a black family in town and everyone was friendly toward them! But they still perpetuated almost every stereotype about POC and made harmful voting decisions, etc. If it wasn't for the internet allowing me to find discussions about white privilege, seeing stories from POC about these things, I would probably still be exactly like that. And I realize that I fuck up constantly, still. Education is on-going. You don't just read an article about white privilege and then get to call yourself woke and pat yourself on the back. I will never truly understand what POC experience and therefore I have to struggle against racist thinking, even if it is an unconscious thought, because of how white = default in society.
Without the aid of far more whites than present, how capable is the minority in toppling white supremacy? With Trump in the White House, looking away as the alt-right's numbers well, minorities are even less positioned to be anything but a nuisance in the eyes of this system.
So, you're agreeing that the majority are racist?
Sure you can, because if there were true outrage against Trump, you'd see wholesale resistance in the streets. Yet, all we have are protests, which are just grander displays of the same lip service that the privileged give before returning to the comfort of their gentrified neighborhoods.
I know a ton of people of different races, orientation, and religious beliefs. I honestly don't know anyone who would agree with that broad of a statement. I certainly don't agree we are all working against equality nor in denial.
Props. You got me. That was good.
I was thinking they'd know you'd get self-defensive about it. Like I wouldn't say this to a friend if I knew they were going to get touchy about it.
Oh, you mean antagonize random white people rather than saying it to my friends' faces?
No but that's because I value my safety.
Bet you got one of those edgy coffe cups with "White tears" on it.
If only there was some system, a, uh, some kind of... elect... elector...? Electing system, in which they could voice their preference for a certain, what's it called, leader? Politician? Yeah, if we could be able to get those people in, preferably the elephant guys, then they could get them out of office!
Look, I'm not good with this politics stuff! Maybe we should just bitch on ResetEra instead.
The majority being the people in power? Absolutely. The majority being anyone with light skin? Not as certain.
What are the several fucking protests and counterprotests that all risen in recent years directly because of Trump? What is the Women's March? What are the resurgence of minority voters winning special elections and unlikely seats?
Nevermind what others are doing, what the fuck are you doing? Complaining on ResetEra that white people are mad that you say they suck? What a fucking rebel! Damn! A madman! I wish I was as woke as you!
Speaking as a white woman - absolutely true. They will go to any length to deny white supremacy exists, to deny that they gain advantage and privilege (no matter how unwanted) as the ruling class of a systemically racist society.
White fragility is real.
So you do have the ability to discern and gauge yourself emotionally and respond thusly in public situations? Okay, good, that's what I wanted to know.
I would honestly be impressed if you were as brazen as you come off as here.
You're not much safer over the internet, honestly.
Eh, nevermind, you've got a good point. No argument here.
Not to sound like Billy Badass but I personally do not do such things because I don't actually care that much. I don't have the pure vitrol towards the white race / identity / whatever the fuck as a whole to do that. Like I said, I could get similar statements off much better. Or worse.
The valuation of suffering has been commodified, the culture of capitalism has even infected the way we perceive suffering. So it benefits us to propagate a world where our flavor of suffering holds a greater weight, where our brand of how culture and society has let us down must be the one that is most severe. Where our bubble is the vacuum and your bubble is a palace. Every aspect of our identity being weaponized for personal advancement.
Most individuals are not responding because they are offended, hurt, upset, or impacted at all by a pot shot of an exaggerated racist generalization. That's a way to deflect criticism, and not accepting criticism from a source just because their skin color represents the same skin color of those who control the levers of institutional authority is...shortsighted, anti intellectual, irrational, and unproductive. It may feel good, a cathartic primal fuck off to the perceived blobby ' white ' morass, to give them a group oriented punishment.
But then what? The deeply racist ones will be encouraged by this, emboldened by their race war/segregationist agenda being furthered. The mildly, incidentally, milquetoast racists aren't even paying attention. So the weird part is you shout into the air, knowing the only people listening are the members of that group who agree with you...do you think the racist white people listen to us anymore than they listen to anyone else? Who are you trying to convince? To make people mad? People aren't mad...don't confuse an aching desire for specificity as some sort of secret racism just because not everyone wants to ride your hate train of shallow invectives.
That is why extreme generalizations are unwise. It's why on a personal level it's always important to correct anyone who makes them about any group, because that's just an artifact of our poorly functioning brains attempting to fit complex multifaceted problems into a simple box. If that's the extent of your analysis than maybe you don't possess the mental faculties to be making a cogent, socially meaningful point.
I expect more of people. It's time we start meeting expectations rather than slinging shit in the ditch.
Most individuals are not responding because they are offended, hurt, upset, or impacted at all by a pot shot of an exaggerated racist generalization. That's a way to deflect criticism, and not accepting criticism from a source just because their skin color represents the same skin color of those who control the levers of institutional authority is...shortsighted, anti intellectual, irrational, and unproductive. It may feel good, a cathartic primal fuck off to the perceived blobby ' white ' morass, to give them a group oriented punishment.
But then what? The deeply racist ones will be encouraged by this, emboldened by their race war/segregationist agenda being furthered. The mildly, incidentally, milquetoast racists aren't even paying attention. So the weird part is you shout into the air, knowing the only people listening are the members of that group who agree with you...do you think the racist white people listen to us anymore than they listen to anyone else? Who are you trying to convince? To make people mad? People aren't mad...don't confuse an aching desire for specificity as some sort of secret racism just because not everyone wants to ride your hate train of shallow invectives.
That is why extreme generalizations are unwise. It's why on a personal level it's always important to correct anyone who makes them about any group, because that's just an artifact of our poorly functioning brains attempting to fit complex multifaceted problems into a simple box. If that's the extent of your analysis than maybe you don't possess the mental faculties to be making a cogent, socially meaningful point.
I expect more of people. It's time we start meeting expectations rather than slinging shit in the ditch.
After centuries of slavery, lynching, persecution and abuse, mass incarceration, continual murdering by the state's attack dogs, the only reasons why the streets of America don't run with the blood of the oppressors are the truly admirable resigned patience of the black communities and their own sense of self-preservation developed through these centuries of atrocities. And yet every time someone dares to point out these problems in a less than reverent way, the moderate white immediately catch feels as if they're the most important thing ever.
Hooray for you and your anecdotal experience, and If that's the case, then they can at least do us the courtesy of stepping out of the way, since they have no empathy or mortality to speak of.
Are you implying POC in this country have not endured centuries of oppression at the hands of white people?
I already answered this before, but such blanket "offensive" statements come from bottled up frustration and anger that PoC all have due to the system which white people benefit from and many seek to maintain. And, even then it's the most bare bones and light "offensive" remark. Imagine having hundreds of years of oppression placed on your shoulders, imagine living and experiencing that shit day in and day out. And, because of the way society runs, you can't yell about it, you can't riot, you can't punch a Nazi in their face. You aren't allowed to fight back in any way, especially one that displays emotion. You have to just sit there and take it, politely. Any feelings of oppression or inequality you might feel must be discussed at the appropriate time, at the appropriate forum, using an appropriate tone. So, then you decide to just air out your frustration on the internet with a little joke, "man, white people are fucking trash." WOAH NOW. How dare you? Don't you see how you're the racist? How dare you take that tone with me, an ally of your cause? Yadda, yadda. Now, suddenly the whole conversation is about YOU (ie white people) and not the situation that elicited said response from us (PoC). Should we be talking like that? Probably not. But, it's hard to keep cool 24/7 given the circumstances just mentioned.
To give a more relatable example, you're parents ever do something that made you really mad? I'm talking something where they were 100% in the wrong? And, so you're trying to let them know that they are wrong and how you feel about it. But, you either accidentally slip out a cuss word or just use an angry, loud tone. And then, they quickly hit back with a, "don't you take that tone with me!" Do you remember how you felt in those moments? How it felt like they had just negated everything you had just said, how they seemed to ignore their own wrong doings just because you took a "bad" tone with them? Do you remember how so much more angry that made you? That they couldn't even allowed you to be angry at their own mistakes.
Would it be bad if racism was one day "solved" without white people ever recognising it was a white people problem all along or do you think it can't ever work without that coming first? Because I personally think it doesn't have to come first, it just has to come at some point lest history is repeated. That's the nice thing about societal norms, most people follow them without giving them much thought, whether they're intrinsically discriminating or the opposite.
Gay marriage, for example, is only objected to by rather overt religious types in my country (though without doubt, many people probably still find it "icky", but not much of a problem). It was legalised far, far too late, mind you. But I really doubt most people went through a phase of "OMG, I was so bigoted back then". They just ceased to care at some point.
I think there is a lot of truth in this post. It is a perspective that is very utilitarian and devoid of emotions and tries to look at the reality we live in instead of the reality we want to live in where things should be like x or how y shouldn't be a thing, but is because this is the reality we live in.
In the end, no matter how much you think it sucks, how you feel about it in general, people will respond in a certain way to certain things and that will never change for very logical reasons, even if you'd like them to because it would make progress more easier. You will not find almost any people who will fight 100% for you and your cause while you "spit" back in their face (in general, not even nearly limited to the issue talked in this specific thread). Guess what, people do things that make them feel good. No, not bad people, just people, even you. Yes you whoever is reading this. This will always be the case as well and always has. People have and will continue to pursue noble causes because it makes them feel good, making it a selfis motivation at it's core.
We operate in this reality, not the one we wish we were in.
How many election cycles has this country been through? How much has the grip of white supremacy loosened as a result? Why aren't candidates genuinely committed to restorative justice for black people elected in great amounts? Why are we always cautioned by even the Democrats to move slowly in reforming the system? Isn't that indicative of a population that - in spite of wielding the votes to elect true advocates of justice - refuses to do so? From that, doesn't it follow that it isn't just the majority of wealthy whites in power that oppose justice?
Pretty much exactly. You have to fight a helluva lot to get yourself down to the point of "minimal" racism and bias, but people like you and me hav etc admit we're not perfect. We're a product of our society and that society still exists around us and props us up all the time. I'm not a saint. I'm making snap judgements about people and situations all the time. I hope there aren't racial biases going on when I do, but I'd have to be ridiculous to pretend I'm anywhere near perfect. And those biases have power whether I like it or know it.
So many people do just want to read some article and pat themselves on the back and say "Good, I'm not racist." Then they go on with their day only to pipe up when they're offended by some white person generalization. It's ridiculous.
I too grew up in a tiny town of slightly less than 800. Lots of racist stereotypes are perpetuated and terrible voting decisions keep their privilege ongoing.
I would be ideal if racists would actually stop being racists but that's just not humanity, y'know?
You got a great point about the response to gay marriage but ultimately those bigots just shutting up will do the future much better. Even if they raise their kids to be shit, they'll be better confronted by the children of gay people and their friends and their friends and either those kids come out better, or the cycle slowly dies with them.
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If anybody in this thread was suggesting the races should remain separate, I missed it.
Sorry but that's some lazy BS. We all have the responsibility to make the world a better place through our actions. Ideally those who were wronged shouldn't have to lift a finger to make things right, but in the real world it takes all sides pulling together in the same direction to really make a difference. The fact you would call all races joining together to try and make things right going fwd "kumbaya nonsense" says a lot about your mentality IMO.
What does that mean? Come at me buddy. Let's go at it. Have something of substance to say or going to try to use some codified language to avoid a proper rebuttal?
Don't hide. You already have the benefit of anonymity. Show me what you are made of, as they say. I'm very much excited to see what you can do.
A lot? I mean, a white man has less power by virtue of his race alone today than 50 years ago, 100 years ago, 200 years ago, etc...
That's how Trump was elected. Some people are threatened by the gradual erosion of white Christian men. A black community leader named Obama winning over a white war hero was an important indicator of that.
I say keep the momentum going instead of declaring progress has never been found.
Noone is perfect you'll find racism from minories against other minorities all the same. Everything is not simply a passive thing, even otherwise good people you'll find perpertuate awful sterotypes because that's what they what they were told never looked into their accuracy or had it challenged.
It all stems from intellectual lazyness and being willing to go beyond your comfort zones.
I don't think it needs to be "solved", it needs to be dismantled. I don't believe there will ever be violent revolution in this country on the basis of white/black. We're far past that now. However I do believe that white supremacy will never end until white people, in general, find a moral center. And they won't because they enjoy the hierarchy, or dislike the work it'll take to dismantle it.
Otherwise we are slowly twisting out a knife that has been stuck in our back for centuries and calling it progress.
User banned (3 days): hostility and belittling other users
Oh my fucking god, are you serious? Can you get a fucking history book, mate?
The fact that you can fucking vote at all is a result of "white supremacy loosing (because of the various election cycles)". You can not be this ignorant.
Because rapid, sudden change equals rapid, sudden backlash.
The worst and consequently best things happen when a seed planted and left to grow over time, not to sprout immediately. The Civil Rights Movement is a long series of protests, speeches, events, courts, etc., no one just fucking said "hey, let's just let black people sit in the front!"
Absolutely fucking maddening, this fucking progress denialism bullshit. "Oh well actually we're all still just slaves and nothing changed for the better ever! We're all doomed! We'll all be oppressed forever! And the only way we can stop it is ARGUING ON RESETERA! YEAH! PROGRESSIVENESS! WOKENESS!!!"
in white countries white people will always be first-class citizens, and I can't see it ever going fully away unless they become a minority (and then become the oppressed class themselves).
in best case scenario racism might get more nuanced and subtle, in worst case white people will fight back through movements like the Alt-right.
in best case scenario racism might get more nuanced and subtle, in worst case white people will fight back through movements like the Alt-right.
In regards to America its not like black people haven't already been doing the vast vast bulk of the work already. The coming together stuff would work if the side with power actually, you know, came together.
Not saying this to be abrasive or combative but the reality is, if minorities could just work really hard and fix this shit themselves they already would have.
The people with the power have to want to and be willing participants in the change. Even though it really aint the wronged people's job to fix shit, the reality is they already are out here putting in the work. The gains have been slow. Something else needs to happen.
Yeah this.
If you want social change you need the vast majority of the nation on your side. The vast majority of people will stop listening the moment you insult them for something they personally didn't do. That's how almost any human being works.
Is it needless? He's taking coded shots at everyone in the thread but won't actually defend his points with a logical progression. I'm approaching him with the same tone and attitude he has (mirroring) and challenging him to improve the level of discourse.
Of course you have to speak on the level of the interlocutor you are addressing. If he had made an initial attempt to appropriately rebuff my statements with some sort of coherent analysis, I'd have responded in kind. So I'm simply living up to his expectations of me.
Don't be passive aggressive. Do you have something to say to me?
What your talking about is something like the civil rights that's not the same as solving inequality. Bigots are still bigots but a part of the institution of the land has been altered. That's not the same as solving homophobia much like racism can never be solved this manner. Even in the absolute best case scenarios if minorities started turning up better represented in all sorts of fields you'll immediately see claims of tokenism as you do right now because of minority taking a place means a white person can't take a place and many that didn't care before care an awful lot now saying how they didn't deserve it. That's the tip of the icebeard of this shit. it's impossible for things to change without change in how the populace in general views these issues and it's not a passive thing.
Word? Last I checked, black people are still getting lynched with impunity, though by white supremacists masquerading as police officers. Segregation is still pervasive in even the most liberal cities across the country, such as NYC or Boston. Our prisons are teeming with black men, most of whom ensnared by the very same drug war that ravaged once thriving black communities. Blacks sit at the negative end of every metric gauging quality of life in this country.
You make an inane attempt to make a rather mundane point that evokes a series of tired, boring, and unprovoking rhetorical points.
"So it benefits us to propagate a world where our flavor of suffering holds a greater weight,"
Imagine saying such a thing in a thread about racism. There's little reason to engage with the rest of your drawn out post when you lead off with such another tired "culture of victimization" take.
Yes, that you are needlessly antagonistic. Just like I was needlessly snide. (or passive aggressive - you edited your description of me).
oh man, it sounds like he wants to fight you. Just leave it be.
Nothing he is saying is even coded. Dude is saying coming out here finger waving minorities about a discussion about how white people oppress minorities is hilarious. And it is. Oh no, she said white people aint shit. In the context of this entire discussion and all the other shit the woman could have commented on she picked this.
Minorities are gon be frustrated sometimes. Playing the "reverse racism, yall are rude and cant ever be off tone" is just bothersome and no one wants to entertain people trying to play with that.
I don't think shit was coded at all. Its pretty plain man.
Would I ever start a discussion with "white people aint shit"? Naw, but that's because the discusssion we are having "right now" is about easing white people's feelings. Why even bother going down that path. To literally have a conversation about white supremacy you have to not hurt peoples feelings.
Think about how stupid this is.
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