Deleted member 17184

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I said this in the other thread, but the discussion happening there is also important. Somehow, a tech demo meant to sell the Unreal Engine 5 to developers became the first playable example of what a next-gen console can run. The problem is that it's supposed to show all these new features can put into their games, but it doesn't mean that every game needs or will have (all of) them.

We even got the Art Director for God of War explaining that it would be really hard to build that kind of environment for 30+ hour games, with someone else trying to "well, actually" him. You could argue the UE4 Real-Time PS4 Tech Demo is feasible today, but that's a cinematic from seven years ago. The UE5 tech demo was playable and shown at a consumer event instead of a GDC equivalent, giving the impression it could be its own game.

I worry we'll see expectations that are impossible to meet, or comments about games that should've used UE5 instead because they don't look as great as the tech demo. For a lot of studios, it might be better to implement similar features into new iterations of their proprietary engines; for other popular engines like Unity, they'll also do their own thing; and it can even be an unfair comparison between Unreal Engine games, as the System Shock Remake doesn't need everything Gears 5 has - and they're both UE4 games.

At the end of the day, the best engine for a project is the one that developers know the best. And they can choose to use its unique features, as long as the game runs well and it fits their vision. Not every game will target what the tech demo did, and I hope people understand that.

EDIT: To be clear, I know not everyone has their expectations through the roof. But some do, and that's where my concern comes from.

EDIT 2: I should've made this clearer before as well: this is about the pressure devs will face (and I mean the hateful and/or armchair kind) because some people believe the tech demo is what AAA games will look like from the start of next-gen.
 
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Yogi

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That's fine, I don't need all those rocks. Especially since it means we're still crawling through small gaps to mask loading times of much more detailed rocks.

But the gameplay looked pretty damn samey. Show something cool. We've been playing the same games for too long. Use the new power to create new gameplay experiences that weren't possible.

I don't need slightly better shadows, reflections on metal poles and 8K rocks. I need new crazy gameplay and that's what I'm expecting of next-gen. Not the same old boring ass games we've had for 15 years. It's time to pump it up. Not the rocks or shadows.

UE5 should make it easy for devs to implement faster/more accurate directional inputs with a controller.
 

nelsonroyale

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Oct 28, 2017
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The 30 + hour comment...isn't that different from this gen. This gen it would be extremely hard to build a 30 hour game with the fidelity of TLoU2.
 

XaviConcept

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Did you ... not read the OP?

Im pretty comcerned as well, the expectations are going to go through the roof and good fucking luck rigging and animating movie quality characters with those kinds of meshes. One company, probably Rockstar or Naughty Dog will set some kind of insane precedent, probably through some unholy levels of crunch, and players will start expecting that kind of output from all developers.
 

Deleted member 51691

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And you had Geoff trying to hype next-gen by quote-retweeting the IGN article about lowering expectations for next-gen acting like an idealized tech demo somehow refutes an article saying to manage expectations for the graphics of actual consumer games...

I hope people are understanding when actual next-gen gameplay (not in-engine cutscene trailer shit) is revealed and it is closer to the Inside Xbox than the UE5 demo.
 
OP
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Deleted member 17184

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Third paragraph, more specifically.
The 30 + hour comment...isn't that different from this gen. This gen it would be extremely hard to build a 30 hour game with the fidelity of TLoU2.
True. But it feels like people are expecting that everything can, should, and will look like the tech demo next-gen. That's very unlikely.
Did you ... not read the OP?

Im pretty comcerned as well, the expectations are going to go through the roof and good fucking luck rigging and animating movie quality characters with those kinds of meshes. One company, probably Rockstar or Naughty Dog will set some kind of insane precedent, probably through some unholy levels of crunch, and players will start expecting that kind of output from all developers.
Exactly.
 
May 7, 2020
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lol,
do you think when epic was working on this engine evryone was sleeping

hellblade 2 even tho not playable show assets in real-time that look better or on par of what was shown here... and it was on U4

the demo is impressive but there were things that have seen better in this generation
the water and hair weren't that great
 

Yogi

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That's not what happened at all. That section was meant to show detail up close.


jET7KLA.png


They did the good closeups on the rocks earlier.
 

Smokey

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It's a cycle that happens every gen. UE5 won't even be available until late 2021. By the time an AAA game comes out to fully take advantage of it, you're looking at another 3+ years. We'll get there eventually. It doesn't help that you have salesman Tim Sweeney out here freely talking about the PS5 can do this and that, and PCs can't. Did the same thing leading up to PS4s launch.

Did you ... not read the OP?

Im pretty comcerned as well, the expectations are going to go through the roof and good fucking luck rigging and animating movie quality characters with those kinds of meshes. One company, probably Rockstar or Naughty Dog will set some kind of insane precedent, probably through some unholy levels of crunch, and players will start expecting that kind of output from all developers.

Yup.
 

est1992

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I agree, the expectations for graphics are extremely high. Lucky for me I care more about how the actual gameplay will evolve.
 

Prine

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I have a feeling this is why Sony aren't shouting from the rooftops about it, due to expectations of their launch games.
 

wwm0nkey

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Yup, I have brought this up with a few friends who are not as tech inclined. A lot of them actually didn't even know the demo was 1440p/30FPS
 

nelsonroyale

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Third paragraph, more specifically.

True. But it feels like people are expecting that everything can, should, and will look like the tech demo next-gen. That's very unlikely.

Exactly.

Yeah, I don't think most devs will reach that level at all. But in terms of the fidelity on display, some will match if not surpass it in certain aspects. We can do much better in terms of character models at least.

I have a feeling this is why Sony aren't shouting from the rooftops about it, due to expectations of their launch games.

Or they are already getting positive press by association. Why do you think they need to comment on it? I doubt it would change much in terms of reception - which has been positive.
 

Carn

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I don't really get the concern, tech demo's have always existed and no, they are seldomly representative of what is realistic (maybe towards the end of a generation).
 

Deleted member 46489

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Especially since it means we're still crawling through small gaps to mask loading times of much more detailed rocks.
It doesn't mean that at all. The crawling through small spaces was to show the detailed rock structures. There was no loading happening in the tech demo. Epic clarified that with various gaming outlets.

The SSD in next gen consoles means that masked loading is a thing of the past.
 

Astandahl

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Oct 28, 2017
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I don't really get the concern, tech demo's have always existed and no, they are seldomly representative of what is realistic (maybe towards the end of a generation).
UE 4 PS4 tech demo has been surpassed by PS4 games, at least from a "impact/ presentation" point of view.

www.youtube.com

Unreal Engine 4: Real-Time PS4 Tech Demo

Epic Games shows off a new tech demo for Unreal Engine 4 running in real-time on PS4.
 
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Altair

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Jan 11, 2018
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Agreed. I've already said in one of the other threads regarding this tech demo that it'd be a mistake to take it as definitive evidence that it was representative of what you'll see on PS5 and XSX. Certainly not in the beginning at least.
 
May 7, 2020
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jET7KLA.png


They did the good closeups on the rocks earlier.
she literally flies across the map and you worried they couldnt load the next confined place?
come on

UE 4 PS4 tech demo has been surpassed bt PS4 games, at least from a "impact/ presentation" point of view.

www.youtube.com

Unreal Engine 4: Real-Time PS4 Tech Demo

Epic Games shows off a new tech demo for Unreal Engine 4 running in real-time on PS4.


it has been surpassed by almost every game
 
OP
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Deleted member 17184

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I don't really get the concern, tech demo's have always existed and no, they are seldomly representative of what is realistic (maybe towards the end of a generation).
I can definitely see some people (like you) with realistic expectations. But there's a lot who are pretty hyped. These are the ones that concern me.
 
Oct 28, 2017
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Lmao let people have their fun. What developers will create or what engines they'll use is entirely up to them none of us have any influence. In the meantime if people want to get excited and imagine potential possibilities there's nothing wrong with that. No one knows what developers will be able to come up with next gen.
 

defaltoption

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I've thought about this a lot regarding Sony's 1st party devs. People are putting so much on their shoulders in terms of "graphics" to justify next gen that it's almost impossible to meet expectations. There's already people talking about Ghost of Tsushima is underwhelming graphically after the unreal reveal and that game is freaking beautiful.

People don't realize that a tech demo != a real game. Regardless of how happy they were to see "gameplay". Not to mention the demo ran at a variable resolution up to 1440p and at 30fps. While many games will probably target 1800p or higher.

A team like naughty dog are tech wizards and will probably match that demo by the end of the gen but not every game will look like that and expectations is that they will. Look at how MS is getting roasted for games after inside Xbox.
 

learning

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Jan 4, 2019
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Did you ... not read the OP?

Im pretty comcerned as well, the expectations are going to go through the roof and good fucking luck rigging and animating movie quality characters with those kinds of meshes. One company, probably Rockstar or Naughty Dog will set some kind of insane precedent, probably through some unholy levels of crunch, and players will start expecting that kind of output from all developers.
Pretty much. Unless people understand that you can automate only so much.... They're bound to have bad expectations....
 

Nama

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Outside of enthusiasts perhaps. All my friends who play maybe one or two games of year and don't keep up with news some didn't even know PS5 was a thing til UE5 demo started making the rounds. Sony keeping quiet for too long might be the actual reason UE5 might raise the casual's impressions of whats next too high.
 

Armadilo

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And you had Geoff trying to hype next-gen by quote-retweeting the IGN article about lowering expectations for next-gen acting like an idealized tech demo somehow refutes an article saying to manage expectations for the graphics of actual consumer games...

I hope people are understanding when actual next-gen gameplay (not in-engine cutscene trailer shit) is revealed and it is closer to the Inside Xbox than the UE5 demo.
All those games were cross gen, we still haven't been shown next gen exclusives, wait for the PS5 reveal
 

Roytheone

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I much rather have worse looking games if that means budget/teams are smaller and that lowered investment leads to more experimentation in AAA games. Unfortunately that will never happen.
 

Deleted member 65994

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Even if the assests aint 8k or if their are not as much polygons as pixels, I am pretty sure that those games gonna look amazing anyway.
 

Tagyhag

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I'm going to assume that people know not to expect these kind of graphics for another 3-4 years at the very least.

We'll definitely get there eventually, but it will only be with the biggest devs and towards the middle-end of this gen.

If someone compares this tech demo with games that will come out in the next 1-2 years, then they're dumb.
 
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I'm sure that the next gem games will be great, being them on ps5, xbox x series, pc (no nintendo, though, they are linked to the past yet)
 

Terandle

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Sony only has themselves to blame if this leads to backlash by allowing this to be the first PS5 footage shown.
 

FancyPants

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+1 for the "so what" crowd. This happens literally every generation. Having tech demos show what's possible has never hurt games so far, it won't happen here.
 

Yuntu

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I dont really think it sets high expectations. Those tech demos rarely feel like they set proper expectations in peoples minds and I think when we start seeing AAA games that are next-gen only is when peoples expectations will build up.
 

VeePs

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Or Sony's confident and knows their fp games will be of similar level.

Definitely possible. Reading through this forum it seems like Horizon 2 will be shown next month, and a lot of people feel it should hit a similar visual target to the UE5 playable tech demo.

I think they'll deliver.
 

DirtySprite3

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I don't know why people think just because UE5 won't release until next year another game can't match the tech demo visually.
Like Sony's first party's internal engines will probably be equally as impressive and more optimized considering that they're building games only for PS5 versus a multi platform engine. I expect one of the launch games will come close to the demo.
 

nib95

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As asset quality, complexity and density goes up, of course the amount of work for devs or designers in creating them, will too, especially art directors like Raf who would be directly responsible for that stuff.

The only solace is that with the more direct nature of development facilitated by these engines (eg not having to worry about multiple LOD's, multiple draw cells, baking light and everything else), there could be other major time saving benefits that somewhat compensate for this.

We've even had devs on Era comment about this regarding the Unreal 5 demo.

I wake up late on Wednesdays and I see a literally industry-shaking announcement.

This is absolutely impossible. So much of the current development pipeline is based on retopography, poly count budgets, draw call budgets, light baking and so on.

This just...gets rid of them.

They're gone.

Entirely.

I cannot even fathom this shit. Every developer I know is fucking losing their minds.


HOLY FUCKING SHIT THEY PERFECTED EVERYTHING!?

Its calculating light, shadows, physics, even ai all differently and its creating lossless runtime full poly 800k textures and several billion Count poly renders all with dynamic global illumination and advanced ai taking place at the same time!?

I think I just saw 4 years of college tips and tricks become completely irrelevant with all this.

I dont have to bake models or use low poly versions or model swap at different draw distance I can use full poly zbrush models and render several million polys like it's nothing in real time. Hell i can have 500 instances of that model along with an entire cave backdrop all doing crazy lighting too.

Dont wanna animate every single animation? Advanced kinematic ai will take your climb animation and dynamically adjust it on the fly realistically to interact with the environment its climbing on so it reaches out to or avoids all the little branches or rocks it touches. Itll even make your character push doors open that it bumps into or change their pose yo pass through narrow areas like in real life. HA! Fuck you euphoria physics engine and your ai promises of 2 decades that never panned out this shit is happening now finally!

This is a serious leap forward. Even more than the exciting but sketchy moments we had seeing unlimited voxel rendering by using math that would tell things to only render what would be visible on the screen on the fly. Unlimited voxel rendering got nothing on this poly count with those levels of texture detail.

Hello next gen. I'm sold. This shit used to take hours to render 30 seconds of footage doing all that for pre render shit. Now we doin it at runtime thanks to an engine. This actually did live up to the hype that ps5 and next gen would be as big of a leap for games as when mario went mario 64.
 

Prine

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Or Sony's confident and knows their fp games will be of similar level.
Doesn't align with how you'd expect them to behave with this demo if true. Have they officially even acknowledged it?

Edit: I'm speaking of expectations for first wave of games.
 

Pancracio17

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How on earth will a developer get enough manpower to get assets on the level of quixel megascans?
 
OP
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Lmao let people have their fun. What developers will create or what engines they'll use is entirely up to them none of us have any influence. In the meantime if people want to get excited and imagine potential possibilities there's nothing wrong with that. No one knows what developers will be able to come up with next gen.
Hard to say there's no influence at all. Devs have openly talked about the amount of pressure coming from high expectations. And it's especially harder if you're a developer on social media.
+1 for the "so what" crowd. This happens literally every generation. Having tech demos show what's possible has never hurt games so far, it won't happen here.
I think the biggest difference, like I said in the OP, is that tech demos are usually cinematics, and most are presented to a developer audience first. If they're on a consumer event, they're surrounded by actual games. This time, it was playable, and the only thing shown.