I wasn't talking about you at all and I'm not sure why you would assume I was
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Star Wars: The Last Jedi |OT3| The War is Just Beginning (Unmarked Spoilers)
- Thread starter Bronx-Man
- Start date
This user is warned for this post: Insulting fellow user.
You're full of shit.
we went through 3 pages of you being pointed at that you've taken the scenes out of context.
You ignore scenes where Luke is training, doing two tasks at once. Obi Wan doing the same thing.
You tried to pretend that there was no time skip during Luke's practice with Obi Wan, to argue that Luke picked up his skill in seconds like Rey did.
We saw in the prequels the younglins doing the same exercise as Luke did with Obi Wan.
You ignore the fact that these little kids are doing SOMETHING for 15+ years before they even become a Jedi, yet you want to pretend that it's as simple as opening a door?
Even the poorly written movies you're defending point out that someone should be dead doing what Luke did at the end of TLJ. And Luke fucking DIED through overexertion.
Even before I came into this thread you pretended that a few seconds of from the movie proves Rey isn't a Mary Sue because she smashed the MF a bit, yet ignore the rest of the action piece where she expertly pilots it like Han and Lando did in the OT.
It's nothing but dishonesty from you.
You've lied and denied plain things show in these movies, just to make it fit your view and your defense for these movies.
And what's your defense against this? You ignore everything that happened for the last three pages, like nothing ever happened.
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I don't care for your insinuation I'm like whomever you're pointing to.
So don't play coy like this is some TV show where only you and the audience knows what's going on.
I didn't take anything out of context.
I didn't take anything out of context. I specifically linked the part that explains the entire purpose of the scene. Wow, a full 1 and a half missing from a 40 year old SW film in a SW film. People surely will be mislead.
There's literally nothing to indicate a significant timeskip. Unless any span of time passing is what counts as a timeskip.
That's not how time skips work in cinema
Yea it's almost like that's an incredibly basic lesson or something.
You're literally the type of person this was made for.
You don't grind force stamina but it still takes it out of you. This has always been the case.
LMFAO ok. You mean the scene where she almost crashes several times while flying it? She struggles more flying a shit she's been inside more so than Luke does with a ship he's never flown. She isn't a mary sue. And you seriously need to do some self reflection on why she should definitely adhere solely to Luke's character template despite her not being Luke and why're you're so bothered by that.
Lol ok.
Yea I totes lied bro, especially the part where I specifically quite literally highlighted the dialogue of the script that the audience was supposed to pay attention to the most. Surely the directors had different intentions.
He seriously does wtf....trying this hard to argue that a character is a mary sue because she doesn't have the exact same character flaws as a male character who didn't even do anything that impressive with the force in the first place.
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Wait is Irbri arguing that the time that elapses between Luke's first lesson with the remote and then next time we see him implies he did additional training??
You quoted dialogue, ignoring the fact that there is action happening on screen, to show that they're physically practicing.
There's multiple scenes where they're doing this and you ignore the live action bits that represent his practicing of the force.
Again, they literally show them playing board games. How can you not get that they had been doing something for a long while? Kids and adults do shit like that in their PAST TIME, when they have nothing to do.
They didn't leasurely make their way out of Tantooine. They were being chased, fearing for their lives and you want to pretend that as soon as they got on board all they wanted to do was just play games?
Completely ridiculous, but you desperately need to deny everything just to make the Mary Sue not be one.
Yes, they're being taught a lesson in using the force, in order to use it. Are you going to pretend that's a one time lesson?
And you're still ignoring the fact that they're there for 15+ years to even become a jedi. They obviously need training, but you keep arguing it's as simple as opening a door.
Wow dude, all those images to mock, yet it doesn't prove anything.
A joke isn't evidence and dismisses nothing, because it doesn't address the argument.
And in the wampa's cave, Luke is clearly trying really really hard to get his lightsaber to him. Again, this shows that exertion needs to be done. If it was all or nothing like you keep on claiming, it should have just flown ot him the instant it started to tremble. He already had the belief that it should have come to him, but he had to redouble his efforts and concentrate to make it come to him.
That scene is evidence that the Force and its skills are a process of many things, not just a belief.
LOLOLOLOL yeah, she takes 30 seconds trying her best ot keep it just level and suddenly she's as good as Lando and Han, despite her claim she's never flown it before.
That totally isn't like how her abilities to use the force have come to her throughout the movie either, not showing that the writers only created a Mary Sue, because of how poorly written the movies are. LOOOL
Why else do you keep on ignoring the actions being shown?
You just continue plugging your ears, pretending that context doesn't matter, that only the words do.
You even went back on yourself earlier by using Yoda's words to prove the Force is just like opening a door, only a belief, despite earlier saying Jedi Order was wrong, which Yoda was the head of (who was shown using the same combination of physical and mental exercises he taught Luke)
Yeah, just the text, ignoring the rest of a VISUAL MEDIUM. Nevermind the context is Yoda telling him he should be able to lift an XWing after months of intense training.
If Luke was a very special case, you might have a point (but the movie already showed us how soemone is trained to use the force) but we still have the prequels to draw back on, where we're directly shown younglings doing the same exercises and being shown that they're trained from toddlers until they're at or near adulthood to learn to become a jedi.
Instead, the only special case is Rey. Her abilities and skills are accomplished only by watching and trying really really hard, no matter what she does. Whether it's expertly flying a spaceship she's unfamiliar with, beating elite guards who were trained in combat since they were children, or using Jedi skills that it took 5 years (an entire trilogy) for Luke to learn (and he wasn't even that good by the end of RotJ) or 9+ years for the strongest jedi ever who was created by the force itself: Jesu-, i mean Anakin.
Again, you're being hugely dishonest just to defend this movie and make your view true.
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There might be a washing machine on the MF, i mean... they'd have to, since trips across the galaxy take days and weeks, even months.
It's not instant, which TFA did a great job at making it seem.
I don't think it took a week though. I'm with the people who thought it took a couple of hours.
The Force is undefined. The "Jedi" don't even really understand it. Force users are different.
It's a bunch of made up fantasy shit. There isn't anything out of bounds with Rey being able to do shit. It doesn't contradict anything because the Force itself is an incredibly loose concept.
I mean, I can't believe we're still on this subject almost 3 years later. If you don't like Rey being that powerful with the Force, that's your own opinion, but there's no "laws" in the Star Wars universe that says it's impossible or cannot be.
It's a bunch of made up fantasy shit. There isn't anything out of bounds with Rey being able to do shit. It doesn't contradict anything because the Force itself is an incredibly loose concept.
I mean, I can't believe we're still on this subject almost 3 years later. If you don't like Rey being that powerful with the Force, that's your own opinion, but there's no "laws" in the Star Wars universe that says it's impossible or cannot be.
Yep. No need to pay attention to the dialogue tho.....surely Luke saved those questions for lesson 5 and Obi-wan saved those explanations for lesson 6.
I focused on the dialogue because that's what important, not the fact that Luke is doing flips.
Surely Luke saved those questions for lesson 5.
Yes? Do you know what a meaningful timeskip means in the context of storytelling?
Surely Luke saved those questions for lesson 5.
Literally the first person we see become a jedi becomes on in 4 years. Anakin became a jedi in less than 15 years. So did many other characters. There's no specific amount of time required before you're considered an official member of a dead order.
You seem to have a problem with self reflection, you VERBATIM put out an incredibly stupid talking point that has been addressed for almost a month.
No she's not. She nearly crashes it several times. She's flying it JUST well enough to not get blown out of the sky, other than that it's a really bad run until she involuntarily uses the force when it gets too much.
Because what's being said is important.
In those scenes specifically there's less focus on the visuals and moreso on the dialogue.
The jedi order was some infallible template for force training.
And Luke, and Ezra, and Ahsoka, and Anakin.
There are more shots of her nearly crashing than there are of Luke. Who perfectly fly the x-wing, in perfect formation no less. She has more familiarity with the falcon based on the dialogue with Han than he did with an x-wing.
Person who also grew up fighting is good at fighting? What sorcery is this?
I simply can't believe that this person who doesn't at all doubt or question what the force can do is picking it up faster than a guy who constantly doubted and questioned it. Heresy I tell you.
You're being very insecure about seeing as woman be more competent than a self insert who started out as a wimp.
Exactly.
A couple hours or not I'm not sure of the point. Obi-wan puts the helmet on Luke, teaches him to feel the Force, tells him he's "taken his first step" and that's it. Immediately following that they've reached Alderaan. We've seen the entirety of the lesson.
We just missed those other 87 lessons man. They spent SOOOO much time training on the falcon. And took like so many showers. Wtf am I reading....?
Person is five times as vitriolic and obnoxious as every other poster in the thread and you're wondering why people are getting annoyed? I mean seriously when's the last time you've seen someone spam LOLOLOL during a discussion? Some of those sentences literally start and end with it. It's ridiculous.
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The Force is my religion. I am one with the force; The force is with me.
I'm hoping J. Jonah Jabrams is going to take off one of these days and we can just make innocent "When they think u tryna soft-reboot Star Wars but you actually just wanted pictures of Spider-Man" memes.
Then what is he even rejecting? And why should Luke feel guilty about trying to kill him?
Honestly, I don't even really think Rey is that much "better" than Anakin.
Anakin, at age 9 or 10, was building fucking podracers and racing them in incredibly dangerous conditions. He was already a wunderkind at that age.
Anakin was taken in early and conditioned specifically by the Jedi. Who knows how he'd have turned out if he grew up without learning to control or evolve his power in the specific ways the old Jedi Order forced upon their students.
Rey grew up by herself as a loose cannon without any direction or following any predetermined guides or however the Jedi trained people. You might think having training means that you're better, but with the Force, it's more like you're harboring power that you don't exactly understand, but have. The Jedi trained people to control it and to use it for good instead of using it to go absolute apeshit with it, so there's a certain level of control going on there.
Rey experienced none of this. She's just simply incredibly gifted with it. It's not a plot hole, it doesn't make her a "Mary Sue." Before meeting Kenobi, Luke never demonstrated any Force powers; the movie didn't even hint at it. It wasn't until they were on the Falcon and Kenobi started with the baby steps. But Luke isn't Rey, hell, Luke isn't Anakin.
In short, we've seen a variety of levels when it comes to Force connection. Not everyone is alike, and again, there are no rules to the Force. Some characters are conditioned by the Jedi Order; some, like Rey, were left unchecked. Had Rey been taken in early and her powers been conditioned by the Jedi, who knows how she'd have turned out. Likewise, had Anakin been left unchecked on Tatooine for as long as Rey was on Jakku without any knowledge of the Force, only knowing sorta deep down that you're special in some ways, who knows how that would've went?
The point I'm trying to make is fuck it
Anakin, at age 9 or 10, was building fucking podracers and racing them in incredibly dangerous conditions. He was already a wunderkind at that age.
Anakin was taken in early and conditioned specifically by the Jedi. Who knows how he'd have turned out if he grew up without learning to control or evolve his power in the specific ways the old Jedi Order forced upon their students.
Rey grew up by herself as a loose cannon without any direction or following any predetermined guides or however the Jedi trained people. You might think having training means that you're better, but with the Force, it's more like you're harboring power that you don't exactly understand, but have. The Jedi trained people to control it and to use it for good instead of using it to go absolute apeshit with it, so there's a certain level of control going on there.
Rey experienced none of this. She's just simply incredibly gifted with it. It's not a plot hole, it doesn't make her a "Mary Sue." Before meeting Kenobi, Luke never demonstrated any Force powers; the movie didn't even hint at it. It wasn't until they were on the Falcon and Kenobi started with the baby steps. But Luke isn't Rey, hell, Luke isn't Anakin.
In short, we've seen a variety of levels when it comes to Force connection. Not everyone is alike, and again, there are no rules to the Force. Some characters are conditioned by the Jedi Order; some, like Rey, were left unchecked. Had Rey been taken in early and her powers been conditioned by the Jedi, who knows how she'd have turned out. Likewise, had Anakin been left unchecked on Tatooine for as long as Rey was on Jakku without any knowledge of the Force, only knowing sorta deep down that you're special in some ways, who knows how that would've went?
The point I'm trying to make is fuck it
He specifically says to let go of the sith, Jedi, Resistance and others but never says The First Order. He's rejecting going with Rey because it means going back to something he doesn't want to go back to. Why wants to destroy the Resistance and not join them. It wasn't about getting rid of evil V good because evil would still be the top dog if Kylo gets his way.
And Luke feels bad because it's his nephew. Does that really need to be explained?
No, it's because you're being selective, ignoring the parts that don't jive with your view.
That's all you've been doing and continue to do.
Hey, even Crossing Eden pointed that out and I agree that it was pretty short (he doesn't understand that them playing board games shows that a lot of time has passed since they escaped from Tantooine. So when Han Solo shows up to the play area, he's arrives right in the middle of Luke's training. This is further shown by Obi Wan saying something like "Remember, the force is flowing through you" or something like that, because he had said something about that earlier, before Han arrived to give the audience an idea about how the Force works).
Either EC said it or someone else did, he noted the fact that Luke's growth inbetween ANH and ESB was pretty small, while the growth from ESB to RotJ was pretty big. However, I disagree with why the growths in his powers were the way they were.
As EC or that other guy noted, Obi Wan gave him very little training and that's why on Hoth his powers in the force are pretty damn weak. He had little to work with from those few hours, so its understandable why he really wasn't able to do much and struggled (WOW! STRUGGLED? Who knew that little training is shown to not be very effective! It's almost that way with everyone, even IRL, which is why it's so easy to identify with Luke and makes him believeable! Rey doesn't struggle like this, hence people calling her a Mary Sue) while in the Wampa cave.
So Obi Wan tells him to go train with Master Yoda. Over there he apparantly spent months (I don't know how or why, but this seems to be acknolwedged by everyone), where they show him training very hard. After all this training, Yoda says there is no try when it comes to taking his XWing out of the Pond. This is told to Luke. The guy who spent many months training under Yoda's tutelage. Context, while Crossing Eden fails at understand or chooses to ignore.
So yep, his growth is obviously pretty big from then on, because he was given at least a week of training, because he now was taught much more. So yeah, his leap to RotJ was pretty big, because everyone but Crossing Eden understands that this shit needs to be practiced to be improved and kept sharp.
Of course, Luke still isn't all that great in RotJ. Even George Lucas says this, because the only jedi we see are old men, one of which is only half of one, an old tired looking alien, and Luke, who had rushed training. In the prequels, we see what a real Jedi should be like, what lightsaber fights in the prime of their lives looked like. The peak of Jedi knowledge and training, before the dark ages. We see all this starts at a very young age and isn't even completed until they're much older than Luke was. Only Anakin was given a special exception, despite his abilities, where he was raised in rank from padawan to knight then to Jedi Master.
But ignore everything about this, because Rey does everything in only 30 seconds of trying really hard, that means everyone else was exactly the same way, because this is what EC knows to be a truth and fact.
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I noticed we are still comparing Rey's strength in the force to Luke's and talking about how quickly she developed her powers compared to him. Instead of trying to rationalise it by saying Luke quickly learned to use the force also, maybe the answer is just simply she sets a precedent no one else had done so before and she's better than Luke.
"She learned to use the force quicker than anyone else because she's the best. So what?" That's what I would ask people who go on about "Rey is a Mary Sue"
Is this a deleted scene from The Force Awakens? I want to see it, this looks cool.
"She learned to use the force quicker than anyone else because she's the best. So what?" That's what I would ask people who go on about "Rey is a Mary Sue"
irbri when someone is being dishonest and lying and full of shit and dense
Is this a deleted scene from The Force Awakens? I want to see it, this looks cool.
It's from The Last Jedi. Einchy posted the video on the last page, but they just showed a little snipped of the scene (it's at 3:55ish):
EDIT - Beaten :P
Rey also wasn't in a situation, until the Falcon escape, of heightened tension on that level.
She's gifted, yes. Straight up. Nobody's denying that. The problem is trying to make logical sense out of movie space magic.
I can simply look at that scene and think, okay, the movie is called The Force Awakens, and the Falcon escape is the first big red flag that holy shit, this girl is crazy.
Like that's literally what it's about. It's about Rey gradually working out that there's something dwelling within her, and she doesn't understand it.
In the very next scene, Finn inquires to her how she did that, and she replies that she doesn't know.
Saying that it's dumb because she did something in "30 seconds because she's trying really hard" is ignorant as hell, because yes, she was put in a life or death situation in that moment and channeled her power big time in a moment of heavy stress.
She's gifted, yes. Straight up. Nobody's denying that. The problem is trying to make logical sense out of movie space magic.
I can simply look at that scene and think, okay, the movie is called The Force Awakens, and the Falcon escape is the first big red flag that holy shit, this girl is crazy.
Like that's literally what it's about. It's about Rey gradually working out that there's something dwelling within her, and she doesn't understand it.
In the very next scene, Finn inquires to her how she did that, and she replies that she doesn't know.
Saying that it's dumb because she did something in "30 seconds because she's trying really hard" is ignorant as hell, because yes, she was put in a life or death situation in that moment and channeled her power big time in a moment of heavy stress.
It took Luke 2 failed attempts before calming himself and force pulling the saber.
It took Rey 2 failed attempts before calming herself and mind tricking the guard.
I'm not seeing a huge difference.
You wouldn't feel guilty about drawing a lightsaber on your nephew? Kylo's entire motivation is trying to reject the past, by literally killing it, so that he can start anew.
Here here.
Hot damn that's awesome. I might get the book to read the extra scenes.
Most good writers will set up the boundaries and explain how things work. George Lucas did a pretty good job of that, even when he made the prequels. He was pretty consistent, even though he isn't actually that good of a writer.
If you ahven't noticed, almost all of the problems people have had with the movies is that the rules aren't consistent anymore. From Rey's ability to magically GET GUD in under a minute to Holdo's hyperspace suicide.
Seriously now
Jakku Tie Fighter Chase
Within the space of three minutes Rey goes from being wobbly with an over-sized awkward outdated junker and no co-pilot to assist her (something even Han relies on) to
- Pulling off multiple high powered turns on a dime by stuttering the engines mid flight
- Full on Tokyo Drift
- Doing her own Death Star II interior trench run with no co-pilot or experience flying the ship
- Is able to judge everything perfectly to do the following
Slingshot the Falcon into the air, cut the engines, time out the decent, rotation, and trajectory of the Falcon with the trajectory and speed of the Tie Fighter behind her to then perfectly line up the jammed quad laser with the path of the Tie Fighter so that Finn can hit the fire button and blow it out of the sky. She is able to re-engage the engines, pull out of a spiral, stabilize the ship, and resume a clean flight pattern And then before they hit the uneven terrain and die
scoped a tie fighter in an intentional free fall with a weapon that she didn't even have in front of her and couldn't even see.
Much like you saying that Tatooine isn't dangerous, you don't seem to be approaching these things with even the pretense of objectivity.
The comment about Luke flying in perfect formation is silly. First off, Luke is flying a snub fighter which is immediately more intuitive. Especially considering he has zipped around in a t-16 skyhopper on Tatooine.
"You may be the hottest bush pilot this side of Mos Eisley, Luke, but those little skyhoppers can be dangerous. They move awfully fast for tropospheric craft—faster than they need to. Keep playing engine jockey with one and someday, whammo! You're going to be nothing more than a dark spot on the damp side of a canyon wall."
―Biggs Darklighter to Luke Skywalker[src]
The T-16 skyhopper was a high-performance airspeeder.
"T-16s are a lot like the snubfighters we're using."
"I know, I looked one over. I'm sure I can handle it."
―Biggs Darklighter and Luke Skywalker, before the Battle of Yavin[src]
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/T-16_skyhopper/Canon
So what did Luke, the wimp, do in this high performance craft back home, zipping around in canyons dangerous canyons and the like?
Oh right. He used to fly around and bullseye Womprats that aren't much bigger than two meters, the size of the exhaust port on the Death Star.
I seriously don't get how you quote the films all the time but keep making outlandish comparisons. and I mean I know you have me on ignore but here's hoping someone quotes this so you can understand that 1) Calling Luke a wimp is just silly and 2) Your argument for this falcon thing is just completely busted. :\
What experience did Rey have prior to the falcon? She meantions that she has only flown freighters in atmosphere, probably not zipping through canyons and bulleyeing small targets and high speeds either, but basic stop and drops.
Even if they were both told to have equivalent ship experience in similar circumstances to their chosen craft (they don't), Reys feats are still massively out of sync in a head to head comparison.
See the first point again for that.
This just... isn't true. Even if people can disagree about if Rey is discontinuous or not, the fact remains that we do not see Luke, Ezra, or Anakin picking things up remotely as fast and becoming proficient enough at it that they best their equal in raw power who has years of training over them at things when he is injured or at full strength all the same.
Rey is learning the nature of the force better than Luke and that's ok, literally every other person we've seen train in this series has picked it up faster than Luke. So obviously he's not the template. That doesn't mean there aren't anymore boundaries or that there are inconsistencies. It means that all of these characters AREN'T LUKE.
The Force isn't something that has ever been "explained" in regards to how it works.
Why? Because it doesn't work in any specific regards. Like I said, it's a loose concept. George Lucas made up the Force in 1977 to tell his story and the most we ever got was stuff like "it's connected between all living things, you, trees, that rock, etc." Oh, and then, when Lucas tried giving it more context with Midichlorians, guess what the fans did? They flipped their fucking SHIT because "it explains the Force!" Now we're having this conversation as if we know everything there is to know about it, right down to arguing the plausibility of a character in a fantasy universe and her connection to it.
There's no specific guidelines or parameters. It's literally a storytelling tool for a storyteller to run hog wild with. It's an endlessly flexible plot point. Nothing about Rey's power is contradictory with anything else. Despite thousands of years of Jedi and Force study, the characters are still trying to learn shit about it.
The difference is that Luke was taught by Obi Wan, a Jedi Master.
He also had 3 years inbetween ESB and ANH for him to practice whatever he was taught during those short hours on the MF.
Rey's entirety of using the Force happens over 5 days (TFA to TLJ) and she only watches those abilites once and she's suddenly good 30 or so seconds later. She was taught by no one. She's just amazing all on her own.
It'd be more believable if she already knew some of things all by herself, that she was already force adept, like that one kid at the end of TLJ. If someone already has te natural inclination to do these things, they might already be doing it. It's how George Lucas wrote Luke, with him being able to bullseye womprats with his fighter on Tantooine or how Anakin was able to survive being a racer in those pod races, because they were innately using that power already. Rey? Nothing. She just suddenly is, because the movie started.
That's a huge difference, that requires a big leap in logic, hence it being seen as a problem in writing and the Mary Sue term being used to describe that sort of bad writing.
No one suddenly GETS GUD like that, which pulls a lot of people out of whatever they're reading/watching/etc. In better written material, there's usually a reason given as to why someone gets that good, and usually there's drawbacks to those abilities as well. This is basic 101 writing and literature.
Ahsoka was in the Jedi Order from the age of 3 and was training for 11 years before she appears in TCW.
Ezra has a Jedi Knight as a teacher from the get go.
Anakin started his training at the age of 9, when we see him again in in Attack of the Clones he is 19, so he has been training for 10 years under ObiWan and in the Jedi Temple.
He probably isn't gobstoppingly stronger than Luke was at the end of ROTJ who had 5 years with maybe 6 months of that receiving formal training.
I'm not sure what point you were trying to make, but again like with a lot of things you just don't seem to be doing the fact checking. Are you saying that Luke with largely no teacher, progressed in 5 years at a rate that was over twice as slow as Anakin did in 10 under formal instruction?
I mean it wasn't the shinning moment of StarWars but, he had a lot of experience with Pod Racers at least, and had the openness of space. It wasn't like he was doing actual evasive maneuvers, deeking out other ships or shooting other snub fighters. He crashed the thing in the hangar bay and it had been on auto pilot at the start.
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You guys are trying to make very specific arguments over things that are very non-specific.
That's the biggest issue with this debate. There's too much attempting to specify things that were literally designed for the sole purpose of creative storytelling.
In 1977, Lucas made up the Force to tell his story. In 1999, Lucas went back to it and made Anakin 1000x more crazy with his Force connection than Luke.
In 2015 J.J. Abrams wanted to write a character that is insanely powerful with the space magic but isn't sure why or how, which differentiates her from the previous protagonists. In 2017, Rian Johnson took it another step further by introducing her power to Luke, and Luke being absolutely terrified of it.
The Force isn't defined, never has been, so I'm not sure why we're trying to attempt to use it as some weapon against the new storytellers, as if we understand the Force and how things SHOULD be better than they do. And when they do try to define it a bit, like with Midichlorians, we flip because the Force shouldn't be "explained" like that. Yet here we are flinging shit at Abrams because we think we KNOW the Force better than he does.
That's the biggest issue with this debate. There's too much attempting to specify things that were literally designed for the sole purpose of creative storytelling.
In 1977, Lucas made up the Force to tell his story. In 1999, Lucas went back to it and made Anakin 1000x more crazy with his Force connection than Luke.
In 2015 J.J. Abrams wanted to write a character that is insanely powerful with the space magic but isn't sure why or how, which differentiates her from the previous protagonists. In 2017, Rian Johnson took it another step further by introducing her power to Luke, and Luke being absolutely terrified of it.
The Force isn't defined, never has been, so I'm not sure why we're trying to attempt to use it as some weapon against the new storytellers, as if we understand the Force and how things SHOULD be better than they do. And when they do try to define it a bit, like with Midichlorians, we flip because the Force shouldn't be "explained" like that. Yet here we are flinging shit at Abrams because we think we KNOW the Force better than he does.
I just don't follow this logic. Luke, Anakin and Rey are all naturally gifted pilots due to the enhanced reflexes (and precognition) that force sensitive people have.
Rey learns the Jedi mind stuff from Kylo Ren.
These things have been continually defined through as media has gone on to the point they had so much of it that they decided to wipe the slate clean for Disney.
The Pod Race was explained by Qui Gon, as he was innnately using his powers in the force to see ahead into the future, which is why he's the only human to even Pod Race.
At the end? That's just cheesey Lucas and Anakin WHOOSPIE DAISY saving the day by accident when he fires those missiles.
R2D2 probably helped a little, but everyone was mostly done by accident.
It's nothing but corn.
Lucas is properly given shit for this type of writing. He's flawed and almost everyone can admit to it, unlike those involved with TLJ.
Anakin was building podracers, droids with functional AI and piloting pods in deadly races and surviving them without a scratch. At age 9. Because of the Force.
But Rey, closer to 17, clumsily piloting the Falcon and learning quickly because she has the Force is a crime against storytelling.
Checks out.
Well Anakin was a slave in doing these things, so practice makes perfect and all that, I mean that's also kind of why Rey is so good with fixing the Falcon, she had been working at a ship yard and scavenging old parts forever.
You're referring to the old EU, which was essentially a whole lot of shitty fanfiction.
Are we seriously doing this right now?
Okay go find me a 9 year old that can do all that shit.
Also Anakin had been racing pods before. It wasn't his first time. He's been building them and working on an advanced AI droid and surviving pod races.
At age 9. That's not just "slave experience."
How is that any different from the new cannon content beyond the films. Lucasfilms tells us that they count, so they count.
Yeah, she learns it after watching it happen once. Do you learn anything after watching it once, especially with something you've never seen done before?
And Luke was also a pilot before ANH. He trained and the fighter he trained on was similar to hte XWing. He wanted to join the Imperial Naval Academy. There's also the fact that real life fighter pilots do the same thing too, where they fly trainer jets before they get to fly the real thing.
Very believeable, don't you think?
Episode 1 is flawed, very dumb. You're not going to see me defend this, but at least they still try to make an effort at good writing.
Rey? She never flew the MF before. She only states she's a pilot, just a very generic thing to mention as they're running away from the TIE Fighter pilots.
So when she gets into the MF, she can't even get it level, yet 30 seconds later she's doing shit that Han and Lando were doing during ESB and RotJ.
Do you see a common thing with Rey and how she almost instantly gets these skills just because the plot demands it at that moment?
Bad writing.