Ché

Member
Oct 14, 2022
1,050
Ontario
How about the misogyny and transphobia that RLM have a history of too, on top of the racism?

You don't need to reference those chucklefucks to criticise a Star Wars show
I wasn't aware of any transphobia, I know about the misogynistic and distasteful comments from the TFA vid that could have been the start of a bad turn, but they've since demonstrated growth and a strong rejection of the audience those comments attracted. but I am trying to learn more about "extremely fucking racist shit" Rich said, because that's a strong accusation, and I thought it was an isolated incident

No one referenced them to criticise the show, no one had a chance to watch the video when it was posted. It's a relevant video for this thread, a lot of people like rlm Star Wars content
 

chefbags

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,395
Watched it and loved it! Really one of the best episodes of Star Wars I've seen. Also shout out to Manny Jacinto, I knew he could act his ass off and by golly he sure did tonight.
 

Ashionok

Member
Nov 7, 2022
1,016
I know the show isn't perfect but what was that if not a delight all the way through of tension and disbelief. Thoroughly enjoyed that.

Star Wars isn't and hasn't ever been Game of Thrones or Chernobyl people.
That doesn't doesn't excuse the bad directing, editing and writing that's present in many of these Disney Star Wars shows. We don't need to have GOT level quality, but we shouldn't have to settle for what we currently get now from Disney either.
 

TheGummyBear

Member
Jan 6, 2018
9,147
United Kingdom
I wasn't aware of any transphobia, I know about the misogynistic and distasteful comments from the TFA vid that could have been the start of a bad turn, but they've since demonstrated growth and a strong rejection of the audience those comments attracted. but I am trying to learn more about "extremely fucking racist shit" Rich said, because that's a strong accusation, and I thought it was an isolated incident

No one referenced them to criticise the show, no one had a chance to watch the video when it was posted. It's a relevant video for this thread, a lot of people like rlm Star Wars content

Off the top of my head I can recall them making a "did you assume my gender" joke in their review of Godzilla Kingdom of Monsters.

And their review of Captain Marvel was just half an hour of amateur hour body language studies to criticise Brie Larson for daring to prioritise taking to female movie critics.
 

thediamondage

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,978
lol i didn't even really think about that

"I want to be left alone! In order to do that, i'm going to recruit an acolyte because that is part of being left alone, murder 3 jedi and then attack a group of jedi in the forest who don't even know I exist. Its a PERFECT PLAN that could only be devised by Darth Bortles himself"

bro did not skip out on arm day, i wanna know the sith workout routine
 

Watershed

Member
Oct 26, 2017
8,067
Jecki put in WORK before she punched out.

Also, why did the stun blast go right through the Sith-Lord?


It's very obvious Sol knows that is NOT Ohsa, since he said "Your sister" and didn't say her name.
I don't think it is obvious at all that he knows Mae is pretending to be Osha. Why would he leave Osha abandoned on that planet? That makes no sense. He thinks Osha is with him and Mae got away.
 

Fj0823

Legendary Duelist
Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,935
Costa Rica
lol i didn't even really think about that

"I want to be left alone! In order to do that, i'm going to recruit an acolyte because that is part of being left alone, murder 3 jedi and then attack a group of jedi in the forest who don't even know I exist. Its a PERFECT PLAN that could only be devised by Darth Bortles himself"

Why are you reading his lines so literally?

He wants to be "left alone" to practice his religion, a religion that preaches on conquest, personal reward and seeks the annihilation of Jedi who are a force that has historically stopped them and killed them.

That's literally what the Sith are after.

He basically told them he wanted to be free from Jedi interfering with his goals

Well surprise: they are making fun of the backlash and hardly talking about the show itself.

Ah right, cause they have completely and thoroughly apologized for their comments, so clearly they have the moral high ground to make fun on the people they helped create.
 

Ché

Member
Oct 14, 2022
1,050
Ontario
And their review of Captain Marvel was just half an hour of amateur hour body language studies to criticise Brie Larson for daring to prioritise taking to female movie critics.
RLM gets re-litigated here semi-often, and the recent thread didn't reveal anything surrounding that event that I found egregious or malicious. Their positions seemed to be that Brie was coming from a good place and had a good message, that she put her foot in her mouth, and that youtubers were overreacting to her comments. whether you agree or not, nothing alarming

The only "wrongdoing" I see (and what I believe incites venom from that incident) is that they were part of the pile-on of negative voices against Brie by terrible people. However, I don't believe they were intentionally trying to bolster or amplify conservative voices, nor do I believe Mike was trying to cash in on hate in some insidious way. I think they spent a long time on it because Mike enjoys talking about big cultural events and reactions surrounding pop media (he even leads the acolyte video stating the huge reaction was his motivation for the video). I respect why people feel otherwise about the event though

As for the "assume my gender" comment, I'd need a lot more context to consider that in a hisory of bigotry. I'm open to being wrong and that their comment was completely out of line and inexcusable

RLM aren't perfect and I don't expect people to be. They seem like they try to be better, and they take more responsibility for the influence they have in the cultural discourse by repeatedly calling out bigoted, bad faith reviewers, so as not to be pointed at as their ally
 
Last edited:

DemonCarnotaur

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,320
NYC
I want to like this show so much but the writing is so bad

but holy shit they cooked with the battle - I loved the look of the combat and blocking and cinematography for it, they cooked there

but I felt nothing because the story hasn't grabbed me
 

Masterz1337

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,029
Why do people immediately try to dismiss criticism like this, as if there's no middle ground between those shows and this one

Just off the top of my head, The Boys S4 is running circles around this show in terms of feeling like a proper TV show
The boys is a political allegory and an introspection of society as a foundation. Star Wars is monks with laser swords and how power can corrupt at best as its moral lynchpin.

Like it's fine to recognize Star Wars isn't great at telling stories... it's another thing for people to endlessly complain it isn't what they want it to be. It's just tiring to see people complain about the saturday morning cartoon continuing to be a saturday morning cartoon. People will bring up Andor, but while Andor has its moments of brilliance that show can also be boring as hell, especially when it focuses on its main character. Like none of Star Wars is some fantastic work of art. It's a cool place to visit and see and I just can't get why people keep complaining it's something it never has been.

Like the entire first and "best" season of Mando is just Star Wars dude doing Star Wars stuff and people love it. It tells you everything you need to know about this franchise.
 
Oct 28, 2017
28,134
I don't think it is obvious at all that he knows Mae is pretending to be Osha. Why would he leave Osha abandoned on that planet? That makes no sense. He thinks Osha is with him and Mae got away.


I didn't think it was possible to fool a Jedi with a connection to another force user by pretending. Like what's the point of all that training if you can just hide behind clothes?
 

DidactBRHU3

Member
Oct 17, 2019
3,274
Fortaleza - Ceará
Jason sith is amazing, sad to see Jecki go ;-;

This episode was brutal, but while I loved the idea of the episode and the fight scenes, the dialogue just doesn't really hit with me, feels like the prequels in that way, which I enjoy overall but has obvious issues.
 

TheGummyBear

Member
Jan 6, 2018
9,147
United Kingdom
RLM gets re-litigated here semi-often, and the recent thread didn't reveal anything surrounding that event that I found egregious or malicious. Their positions seemed to be that Brie was coming from a good place and had a good message, that she put her foot in her mouth, and that youtubers were overreacting to her comments. whether you agree or not, nothing alarming

The only "wrongdoing" I see (and what I believe incites venom from that incident) is that they were part of the pile-on of negative voices against Brie by terrible people. However, I don't believe they were intentionally trying to bolster or amplify conservative voices, nor do I believe Mike was trying to cash in on hate in some insidious way. I think they spent a long time on it because Mike enjoys talking about big cultural events and reactions surrounding pop media (he even leads the acolyte video stating the huge reaction was his motivation for the video). I respect why people feel otherwise about the event though

This is absolutely revisionism. Brie Larson didn't put her foot in her mouth, she was accepting an award celebrating women in cinema and she made a pledge to prioritise female movie critics as they're underrepresented in the industry. RLM jumped on a hate bandwagon started by chuds.
 

NetMapel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,619
I'm always in for more Jason from The Good Place. #TeamSith

5f16d82b02d762ca8958ce63e8fb9419a3a28ace.gif
 

Anth0ny

Member
Oct 25, 2017
48,360
Why do people immediately try to dismiss criticism like this, as if there's no middle ground between those shows and this one

Just off the top of my head, The Boys S4 is running circles around this show in terms of feeling like a proper TV show

The Bear is dropping tomorrow too. Lots of great tv this week.

Acolyte was…. Alright.
 

Ché

Member
Oct 14, 2022
1,050
Ontario
This is absolutely revisionism. Brie Larson didn't put her foot in her mouth, she was accepting an award celebrating women in cinema and she made a pledge to prioritise female movie critics as they're underrepresented in the industry. RLM jumped on a hate bandwagon started by chuds.
Except no she fucking didn't.
Like I said, you're free to disagree with their assessment of events or the part they may have played. we don't need to have the same interpretation, nor the same lines for what we consider unacceptable
 

Lotus

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
108,688
The boys is a political allegory and an introspection of society as a foundation. Star Wars is monks with laser swords and how power can corrupt at best as its moral lynchpin.

Lol why are you being obtuse, The Boys is just one out of many examples of good TV, it doesn't matter if it's a "serious" show or not. The point is that this show falters in very obvious areas that people have been noticing for 4 weeks now, and there's nothing wrong with people pointing that out. Of course it's all opinions in the end so you don't have to agree or can enjoy it even if you do agree. But I hate this whole implication that inevitably happens with most of the shows where asking for the bare minimum is apparently having your expectations too high, made even sillier with the huge budget these shows are given.

I don't even need to bring up the show that shall not be named, you got The Bad Batch and Star Wars Visions as other recent examples of engaging storytelling beyond what The Acolyte has done so far.

The Bear is dropping tomorrow too. Lots of great tv this week.

Acolyte was…. Alright.

Fuck, that show snuck up on me, and they do the binge model too, gonna be busy tomorrow
 

Soj

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,891
Some of the best lightsaber fights ever. Great choreography with creative use of force powers. Absolutely loved that aspect.

I just wish the writing was as good.
 

Tukarrs

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,868
The pacing for the episode seems weird but the fights were interesting.

I think that might have been the best Sith character in live action media.
 

Hello Snake

Member
Nov 25, 2020
1,420
Canada
This episode was good. This time I'm not going to read all the comments that would convince me it actually sucked. I'm very curious where the story goes from here if the season wasn't building to a reveal of the sith master at the finale.
 

Falcon511

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,216
Great episode. Jecki getting offed upset me. She held her own really well.

I figured the twins would switch places. It was kind of obvious in the first episode with Osha working for the Trade Federation. She will probably seize control of it and hand it down to the next sith that takes her place.

Yeah they need better dialogue writers. Just hire the current GoT people. The dialogue in that show has gotten better after D&D kept fucking it up.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,465
Other than the stopping the good guy from killing the bad guy trope I really liked this episode. Would not have thought Jason from the good place would be the scariest Sith since Darth maul but he was brutal

I was wondering how we'd see the other side of the stories, this parent trap situation is a good idea.
 

Haxik

Member
Oct 27, 2017
743
Though amidst a pit of mediocrity, at least this episode had some of the best lightsaber fighting scenes in all of Star Wars. It's a shame that editing problems have also cut the pace and they haven't let the action breathe or given long takesbut, in addition to more than acceptable choreography, seeing character deaths with some weight, new moves like the temporary deactivation of the swords or the style of Manny Jacinto's character, in addition to the use of double swords, has been a breath of fresh air even in his killing ways: that double death strung together, break kneck, multiple stabs, etc. Regarding the action and its screen presence, Qimir could be one of the best Siths I've seen in live action SW.

There continues to be an accumulation of questionable decisions per episode such as moths being the ones to end the conflict and taking away a guy who has shown enough mastery to eliminate half a dozen jedi, characters being near or far from the action at convenience (where is Sol supposed to be at the beginning of the episode? Why are Osha and Mae alone when Sol was by her side moments before?), more terrible dialogues or, as I say, an editing work that constantly hurts what is being told (and that again gives us a strange closure).

All in all, I find it a very above-average chapter within Disney+ SW metrics. And although I think the double life of Manny Jacinto's character may not quite fit, I find his character and his speech interesting and I'm curious to see where the story goes.
 

Haxik

Member
Oct 27, 2017
743
By the way, Manny Jacinto's performance carries the series tremendously. Both for feeling more natural and fluid in his good side and for the magnetism and sense of threat (until you see him being dragged by moths, that is) in his dark side.

And connecting with the debate about dialogue and whether Star Wars can make a series on par with the best TV (not only can it, it already exists; although I'm starting to believe it was an absolute miracle that won't be repeated), I do believe that, in cases like this, being a bit more self-aware and trying to aim for less (or at least proposing something different) would have been better.

Why not make the series from Qimir's POV? Why not exploit what could be a unique value in the saga, like action, and tell a revenge story à la John Wick from the Sith side? It's as if, despite continuing to fall into mediocre stories and terrible dialogues, Disney is completely opposed to the idea of making a straightforward action product, without more pretensions, starring Jedis or Siths. The Mandalorian shone more when its episodes were light, self-contained adventures where the weight was carried by worldbuilding and action. Entering the realm of """"political"""" disputes and """"dense"""" dialogues in Season 3, the quality dropped a lot due to the mediocre (when not plain bad) writing.

Maybe my desire to see more Qimir in action speaks for me, but after five episodes, his screen presence has seemed infinitely more attractive than the story of the twins.
 

RedRum

Newbie Paper Plane Pilot
Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,379
The writing is fucking terrible and the editing is just as bad, but gatdamn that saber battle went harder than anything I've seen in Star Wars.

"Was that its name?"

The disrespect.
 

Antoo

Member
May 1, 2019
3,877
i almost feel like it was a mistake to dedicate episode 3 as the flashback episode now that i have a clearer picture of the overarching story. they really needed more time with yord, jecki, and osha together to really sink in the tragedy of the major deaths this episode. when jecki and osha had a heart-to-heart in episode 4, it came out of nowhere because the two barely spent anytime talking to one another and now suddenly they are acting like friends?

instead of having a flashback centered episode in the first half, we should have just had glimpses of what happened in osha's mind. jury is still out on the next flashback episode (7?), but i'm unsure why they thought to dedicate two episodes to what occurred in the past in the first place. we'll see soon enough i guess.
 
Last edited:

Zulith

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,804
West Coast, USA
Sith (I mean, he does call himself that) identity was the more obvious choice, but it's okay. I think they executed well on it, better than I would have guessed based on the prior episodes anyway. All the combat is top notch, just like the fight at the start of the season opener. This show's legacy will be very mixed, but this episode at least put it up there with some of the cooler fights in all of Star Wars for me.
 

Gravemind IV

Member
Nov 26, 2017
2,062
Qimir hard carrying this episode. Although I am left wondering how they won't retcon the shit out of the Phantom Menace with Sol surviving here. I mean.. dude literally called himself Sith, is Sol gonna be hush hush about it to the Jedi council? How is he going to explain 7+ dead Jedi (damn nice killstreak Qimir).

Also, why the fuck do these episodes remain so short? Disney's reasoning for episode 4 was that it was pretty much conjoined with 5 and they had to make one of the two shorter. Naturally everyone expected 5 to be beefy. But nope, it's just as short as 4. Which isn't doing the pacing any favors and I keep wondering where all the budget is going. HotD has nearly twice as long episodes on less budgets and (let's be real) better sets, and visual spectacle.

Anyhow.. best episode so far of the Acolyte, which was about time. Mostly in part due to Qimir killing 90% of the cast lmao.

Some other points:
- I still dislike how Disney lightsabers have started to look. It's good when they are not moving and sometimes they look good in motion too, but it seems there's very little post effects done on them. No more white streaks during twirls etc. makes it clear they are relying mostly on Force FX interactions with the camera. Hate how they go almost transparent when swung in fast motions.

- I still find the entire Mae/Osha plot wildly uninteresting. Think the show would have been way better if it had primarily focused on Qimir running around and the Jedi being caught off guard by it. Focus more on various viewpoints in the Order on how to deal (or stay ignorant) with it.

- How does Sol not know that it's Mae instantly? Speaking of Mae.. how many times can you flip flop in one season? She goes from wanting to kill Kelnacca to wanting to turn herself into the Jedi to then physically resisting arrest. Come on..

- Where the fuck did they get all the spare lightsabers from? Wasn't Qimir's helmet smashing them? Qimir got his saber back, so did Sol etc. Or did it only temporarily disable them? Was watching on mobile on holiday so I couldn't quite catch some of the darker scenes.

- RIP Jecki and Yord. At first I wanted to nitpick a padawan being able to get hits in while everyone else got stomped, but thankfully they didn't hold back on Qimir going bonkers.
 
Last edited:

Osahi

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,010
This was a fun episode. The writing remains a problem in this show and I believe the way they made a lot of wrong choices in executing the premise and structuring the show (it was sold as a mystery show about jedi investigating murders, but it's anything but). The mystery about the fire isn't strong enough because of how it is told (the way they explored that in episode 3 still remains a strange decision), nor is the storyline of Mae and Osha dramatically strong enough.


- Where the fuck did they get all the spare lightsabers from? Wasn't Qimir's helmet smashing them? Qimir got his saber back, so did Sol etc. Or did it only temporarily disable them? Was watching on mobile on holiday so I couldn't quite catch some of the darker scenes.

There is literally a shot of two jedi staring at their disabled lightsaber and getting them to work again.
 

tim1138

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,285
I'm gonna call my shot now. Sol is the actual Sith master, Qimir is the apprentice, and the whole show has been a proxy war for control between the two of them.
 
Last edited:

iFirez

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,824
England
I definitely agree with the editing and pacing issues but god damn this episode ruled. I actually was stunned and jaw agape a few times but one time I was so shocked I almost had to pause. The fights were so raw too, there's more to this than we know and I love that, the layers (some shallow) are really fascinating and I think now we've only got 1 or 2 big reveals left - I'm interested in seeing where the show goes.