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RevenantAxe

Banned
Apr 16, 2018
1,274
Okay, I'll bite - name two Spider-Man movies combined that Black Panther beat at the box office.. I'll give you a hint - it didn't, and thats including the Amazing Spider-Man series.

Spider-Man games haven't been big because they haven't been good, the property is massive - hes the leading superhero in retail merchandise sales. With the marketing push of Sony, and the seeming quality of the game, it'll do extremely well. If you're barometer of success is it hitting COD/GTA/Fortnite/PUBG numbers then I don't know what to tell you.


Ok it didn't do better than all Spiderman movies combined but Panther did crossed 1b mark which your super popular Spiderman movies failed to do at box office.

Here .
https://www.the-numbers.com/movies/franchise/Spider-Man#tab=summary

Not a single Spiderman movie reached billion mark . Black panther did 1b alone at box office


Majority of Spiderman fans are comic book and movies fans. Gaming audience for Spiderman is not that big .
 

black070

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
5,583
Ok it didn't do better than all Spiderman movies combined but Panther did crossed 1b mark which your super popular Spiderman movies failed to do at box office.

Here .
https://www.the-numbers.com/movies/franchise/Spider-Man#tab=summary

Not a single Spiderman movie reached billion mark . Black panther did 1b alone at box office


Majority of Spiderman fans are comic book and movies fans. Gaming audience for Spiderman is not that big .

Cool, see you in September.
 

NeoRaider

Member
Feb 7, 2018
7,332
Look, I'm sorry but
  • It's a linear single player game with no unique mechanics
  • The past two entries have failed to gather a faithful fanbase
  • There is a tangible internet hate wagon for the series due to horrible writing and treatment of a clasdic character
  • The setting is another jungle, dime for a dozen.
  • It's still a prequel, for some reason. Still no Tomb Raider in sight.
  • It was leaked ages ago and such the announcement hype was unexistant
  • The trailer is gonna launch on Avengers day
  • The game is gonna die sandwiched between the most important Ps4 exclusive (a market they already damaged with the One exclusive deal for Rise) and the biggest game of the generation (RDR). Both highly anticipated open world games.
  • Did I mention they chose the worst, most generic setting possible?
So yeah. Game is dead.

F84GlGn.png
Q5HCX37.png


http://www.metacritic.com/game/playstation-3/tomb-raider
http://www.metacritic.com/game/playstation-4/rise-of-the-tomb-raider-20-year-celebration

https://www.resetera.com/threads/ri...opies-tomb-raider-2013-ships-11-million.8293/

Try harder.
 

smurfx

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,578
square has been making stupid decisions with tomb raider since rise of the tomb raider so they might as well keep it up.
 

IronicSonic

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,639
Casual crew eventually will notice a new Tomb Raider is in the works. It's not like the reveal day will be the only moment to know about the new Tomb Raider. Marketing campaigns exits.

Dedicated gamers already know about the new Tomb Raider and will see the reveal trailer and then will go to the Thatear to see Infinity Wars
 

Plumpbiscuit

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,927
Sorry but using whataboutism isn't a valid form of argument. Just because many other people like the games it doesn't mean criticism of the game becomes invalidated or brushed aside, all the points he/she made are shared concerns (if you actually bothered to read reviews instead of looking at Steam's broken trending reviews system). Using your fallacy, any game that is highly rated on Steam cannot be criticised or criticism shouldn't be taken seriously just because other people like it.

You've done nothing to add meaningful discussion to said post.
 

NeoRaider

Member
Feb 7, 2018
7,332
Sorry but using whataboutism isn't a valid form of argument. Just because many other people like the games it doesn't mean criticism of the game becomes invalidated or brushed aside, all the points he/she made are shared concerns (if you actually bothered to read reviews instead of looking at Steam's broken trending reviews system). Using your fallacy, any game that is highly rated on Steam cannot be criticised or criticism shouldn't be taken seriously just because other people like it.

You've done nothing to add meaningful discussion to said post.

Ok let's see...

It's a linear single player game with no unique mechanics - Not true.
The past two entries have failed to gather a faithful fanbase - Not true.
There is a tangible internet hate wagon for the series due to horrible writing and treatment of a clasdic character - "Hate wagon" not true.
The setting is another jungle, dime for a dozen. - Personal opinion and we don't know this yet. Also for many this is a plus.
It's still a prequel, for some reason. Still no Tomb Raider in sight. - Personal opinion. And also not true, "Prequel"? Game was rebooted years ago.
It was leaked ages ago and such the announcement hype was unexistant - Not true.
The trailer is gonna launch on Avengers day - So what?
The game is gonna die sandwiched between the most important Ps4 exclusive (a market they already damaged with the One exclusive deal for Rise) and the biggest game of the generation (RDR). Both highly anticipated open world games. - Are you coming from the future?
Did I mention they chose the worst, most generic setting possible? - ???
So yeah. Game is dead. - No comment.

Is this better??
 

Zoid

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,335
If you somehow missed it shadow of the tomb raider is being revealed this Friday the same day as Avengers Infinity War releases in North America. I feel like they might get drowned out by the Infinity War hype? Did Square miss the memo?

The bigger issue is releasing it a week after Spidey.
Oh no, it seems like this game is destined to do much worse than it could. I've really enjoyed the rebooted series thus far and I want this one to do well.
 

Plumpbiscuit

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,927
Ok let's see...

It's a linear single player game with no unique mechanics - Not true.
The past two entries have failed to gather a faithful fanbase - Not true.
There is a tangible internet hate wagon for the series due to horrible writing and treatment of a clasdic character - "Hate wagon" not true.
The setting is another jungle, dime for a dozen. - We don't know this yet. Also for many this is a plus.
It's still a prequel, for some reason. Still no Tomb Raider in sight. - Personal opinion.
It was leaked ages ago and such the announcement hype was unexistant - Not true.
The trailer is gonna launch on Avengers day - So what?
The game is gonna die sandwiched between the most important Ps4 exclusive (a market they already damaged with the One exclusive deal for Rise) and the biggest game of the generation (RDR). Both highly anticipated open world games. - Are you coming from the future?
Did I mention they chose the worst, most generic setting possible? - ???
So yeah. Game is dead. - No comment.

Is this better??
No, writing "not true" and "no comment" is still shitposting, that's not meaningful discussion. Besides, allow me to expand:

It's a linear single player game with no unique mechanics - Not true. Both games are linear, you must reach B to go to C to go to D and there is no other way around it. Only once you've reached B, you can go back to A, once you reached C, you can go back to B, but you cannot go from B to D because of the games' linear narrative structure. As for no unique mechanics, it's true as well, both games use standard TPP controls, shooting and climbing. The games don't have mechanics that other games haven't already done.

The past two entries have failed to gather a faithful fanbase - Not true. Note, he said "faithful" fanbase, there is still a large pool of people that are concerned about how future games will turn out to be. I'd say this is partially true if you look outside of Steam's broken trending review system.

There is a tangible internet hate wagon for the series due to horrible writing and treatment of a clasdic character - "Hate wagon" not true. True, people on here get banned for criticising reboot Lara and I've seen it happen over at the TRForums. Also there are many people who agree the writing/story in the reboot games are the weakest areas.

The setting is another jungle, dime for a dozen. - We don't know this yet. Also for many this is a plus. We know this, the teaser trailer has revealed another dark rain forest/jungle setting, as well as the puzzle audio confirming more jungles. Yes, this may be a plus, but I want variety.

It's still a prequel, for some reason. Still no Tomb Raider in sight. - Personal opinion. This whole thing is personal opinion, what's your point?

It was leaked ages ago and such the announcement hype was unexistant - Not true. The game is 4/5 months from release, where's the hype, then?

The trailer is gonna launch on Avengers day - So what? Since you don't know about marketing and breathing space, it generally is a bad idea to make two major announcements on the same day due to interest clashing.

The game is gonna die sandwiched between the most important Ps4 exclusive (a market they already damaged with the One exclusive deal for Rise) and the biggest game of the generation (RDR). Both highly anticipated open world games. - Are you coming from the future? This is a fair prediction to make with historical evidence behind it, major releases have panned because of release date timing. Same for indies.

Did I mention they chose the worst, most generic setting possible? - ??? He's talking about the dark rain forests/jungle.

So yeah. Game is dead. - No comment.

Stop shitposting.
 

Deleted member 10193

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,127
Ok let's see...

It's a linear single player game with no unique mechanics - Not true.
The past two entries have failed to gather a faithful fanbase - Not true.
There is a tangible internet hate wagon for the series due to horrible writing and treatment of a clasdic character - "Hate wagon" not true.
The setting is another jungle, dime for a dozen. - Personal opinion and we don't know this yet. Also for many this is a plus.
It's still a prequel, for some reason. Still no Tomb Raider in sight. - Personal opinion. And also not true, "Prequel"? Game was rebooted years ago.
It was leaked ages ago and such the announcement hype was unexistant - Not true.
The trailer is gonna launch on Avengers day - So what?
The game is gonna die sandwiched between the most important Ps4 exclusive (a market they already damaged with the One exclusive deal for Rise) and the biggest game of the generation (RDR). Both highly anticipated open world games. - Are you coming from the future?
Did I mention they chose the worst, most generic setting possible? - ???
So yeah. Game is dead. - No comment.

Is this better??

It IS a single player game with no unique mechanics. I can't think of a single one.
Past two entries are barking further and further up the wrong tree, the hub based pseudo open world with tiny puzzle tombs isn't the way to go.
Lots of people hate on the new Tomb Raiders because it makes Lara into some feeble little girl.
Not sure on the setting but I really don't want ANOTHER hub based jungle/mountain game.
Technically they are prequels to her becoming the Tomb Raider. Not to the original games.
It WAS leaked ages ago, the name at least and one slide because someone was editing it on the subway.
Releasing a trailer on Avengers day is gong to kill all hype for the game, Infinity War is the culmination of 10 years of movies into one film and the end of the current MCU era.
If they are revealing it this soon and not E3 it is almost definitely coming out at the end of the year around the time that Red Dead 2 and Spiderman are coming out, whose going to want to buy dollar store Uncharted when those games are out. (this is coming from someone who has played EVERY Tomb Raider dating back to PS1 days)
 
Oct 26, 2017
8,992
All this negativity, wow.

I for one can't fucking wait to see what this developer has been up to. I can't deny that I'm slightly wary of it being a new developer and not CD here to finish their trilogy, but at the same time we could possibly see things that CD wasn't planning on adding and could end up great. I am very excited.
 

NeoRaider

Member
Feb 7, 2018
7,332
User Warned: Trolling.
No, writing "not true" and "no comment" is still shitposting, that's not meaningful discussion. Besides, allow me to expand:

It's a linear single player game with no unique mechanics - Not true. Both games are linear, you must reach B to go to C to go to D and there is no other way around it. Only once you've reached B, you can go back to A, once you reached C, you can go back to B, but you cannot go from B to D because of the games' linear narrative structure. As for no unique mechanics, it's true as well, both games use standard TPP controls, shooting and climbing. The games don't have mechanics that other games haven't already done.

The past two entries have failed to gather a faithful fanbase - Not true. Note, he said "faithful" fanbase, there is still a large pool of people that are concerned about how future games will turn out to be. I'd say this is partially true if you look outside of Steam's broken trending review system.

There is a tangible internet hate wagon for the series due to horrible writing and treatment of a clasdic character - "Hate wagon" not true. True, people on here get banned for criticising reboot Lara and I've seen it happen over at the TRForums. Also there are many people who agree the writing/story in the reboot games are the weakest areas.

The setting is another jungle, dime for a dozen. - We don't know this yet. Also for many this is a plus. We know this, the teaser trailer has revealed another dark rain forest/jungle setting, as well as the puzzle audio confirming more jungles. Yes, this may be a plus, but I want variety.

It's still a prequel, for some reason. Still no Tomb Raider in sight. - Personal opinion. This whole thing is personal opinion, what's your point?

It was leaked ages ago and such the announcement hype was unexistant - Not true. The game is 4/5 months from release, where's the hype, then?

The trailer is gonna launch on Avengers day - So what? Since you don't know about marketing and breathing space, it generally is a bad idea to make two major announcements on the same day due to interest clashing.

The game is gonna die sandwiched between the most important Ps4 exclusive (a market they already damaged with the One exclusive deal for Rise) and the biggest game of the generation (RDR). Both highly anticipated open world games. - Are you coming from the future? This is a fair prediction to make with historical evidence behind it, major releases have panned because of release date timing. Same for indies.

Did I mention they chose the worst, most generic setting possible? - ??? He's talking about the dark rain forests/jungle.

So yeah. Game is dead. - No comment.

Stop shitposting.

Just wanted to inform you that i didn't read

It IS a single player game with no unique mechanics. I can't think of a single one.
Past two entries are barking further and further up the wrong tree, the hub based pseudo open world with tiny puzzle tombs isn't the way to go.
Lots of people hate on the new Tomb Raiders because it makes Lara into some feeble little girl.
Not sure on the setting but I really don't want ANOTHER hub based jungle/mountain game.
Technically they are prequels to her becoming the Tomb Raider. Not to the original games.
It WAS leaked ages ago, the name at least and one slide because someone was editing it on the subway.
Releasing a trailer on Avengers day is gong to kill all hype for the game, Infinity War is the culmination of 10 years of movies into one film and the end of the current MCU era.
If they are revealing it this soon and not E3 it is almost definitely coming out at the end of the year around the time that Red Dead 2 and Spiderman are coming out, whose going to want to buy dollar store Uncharted when those games are out. (this is coming from someone who has played EVERY Tomb Raider dating back to PS1 days)

... this too.
 

Deleted member 10193

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,127
If you can't have a civil, constructive conversation then don't bother posting. I care about the franchise but it's going more and more in the wrong direction trying to chase Uncharted.

I think the last Tomb Raider I actually enjoyed was Underworld... :(
 
Apr 5, 2018
400
Keizer, OR
Their best move would be push that baby into the last week of August. Major advantage. Delaying it won't help. Not sure how feesible or realistic it would be for them to hit an end of August date.
I think wait for E3, see how much more is announced for fall release, we Know Bethesda loves to announce with a fall release, plus MS keeps saying they have unannounced games for this year. Once we know where the others fall, I think a delay to Jan/Feb would actually help this game do better.
 

Lady Gaia

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,477
Seattle
It'll be a tossup for me to see if I play this first, or Spider-Man. I guess it comes down to how they review. As to when the best time to do the reveal goes? I'm not sure it matters that much. This is just the start of a rolling press campaign, not the whole thing in one day. Whether people watch the trailer this week or in a month is pretty much irrelevant. The release date is the much bigger deal, and if they can move it up they would be wise to do so.

As for the reboot in general? I like the concept and what they're trying to do, but the writing and character beats have been too flat. I hope they turn the writing up a notch this time around and dial back the physical abuse Lara takes in the process.
 

ASleepingMonkey

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
4,496
Iowa
I think wait for E3, see how much more is announced for fall release, we Know Bethesda loves to announce with a fall release, plus MS keeps saying they have unannounced games for this year. Once we know where the others fall, I think a delay to Jan/Feb would actually help this game do better.
True, that early 2019 spot has been a prime slot for the last few years for some of the biggest hits (RE7, Horizon, Monster Hunter, Dying Light), it could survive there I just wonder if Square wants this thing out the door by the end of this year.

I would say there's some wiggle room in December but that spot has kind of been a hit or miss with other games. You're coming out dead last so everyone is invested in other titles or have other ones at the top of their wishlist. Sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn't.

One thing is for certain, I don't think they're keeping that September date. They would be absolutely foolish to do that, they made that mistake last time and they were lucky they had an entirely separate player base to dig in to a year later. They don't have that luxury this time.
 
Apr 5, 2018
400
Keizer, OR
True, that early 2019 spot has been a prime slot for the last few years for some of the biggest hits (RE7, Horizon, Monster Hunter, Dying Light), it could survive there I just wonder if Square wants this thing out the door by the end of this year.

I would say there's some wiggle room in December but that spot has kind of been a hit or miss with other games. You're coming out dead last so everyone is invested in other titles or have other ones at the top of their wishlist. Sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn't.

One thing is for certain, I don't think they're keeping that September date. They would be absolutely foolish to do that, they made that mistake last time and they were lucky they had an entirely separate player base to dig in to a year later. They don't have that luxury this time.
All the games you mentioned are great examples. Even with Zombie fatigue already setting in at that point, Dying Light surprisingly well. Although it had the advantage of being a good game too. I fell like it could be a perfect spot of Lara to shine if there is a delay.

I would like to see publishers take advantage of the summer drought. We don't need a ton of games during the summer but one good release in July would be great. Hold us over until the fall feast begins.
 

maxx720

Member
Nov 7, 2017
2,834
That's crazy talk. The best-selling multiplatform Spider-Man sold two million copies. An average Tomb Raider sells four million copies. Shadow is very likely to outsell Spider-Man 3:1.

I quite enjoyed the first two so they have my money. I'll probably get Spiderman as well though. ;]
 

Deleted member 511

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,676
This forum is dumb sometimes. It's entirely possible to focus your attention/excitement on more than one thing + not everyone watches Marvel movies.
 

est1992

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,180
I'll be paying attention to this before I go see IW that night. I did forget about it though lol thanks OP
 

EvilChameleon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,793
Ohio
Speaking of Tomb, who thinks we'll get a reveal of a collector's edition of the game this Friday? I would love to have a statue.
 

TheWordyGuy

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,623
BTW, the second game in the reboot has superb scaling in DX12. I was running at max settings, at 3440x1440 on a Gsync display, and getting 90+ FPS.

This happened after patching. Pretty amazing game actually. I might re-install this.
 

LordBaztion

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,809
Lima PerĂş
I'm quite surprised how little marketing the game has compared to RoTR. The later seemed like a much bigger title.
Hopefully, later the marketing machine will gear on.

Also that rhetoric of the game being hate because writing and nostalgia is an issue in gaming bubbles like this site. The game has been positively received and the new grounded Lara fits well current gaming trends. Being said that,I hope writing gets better because enemies were very lacking in the last two games and Lara's story could be tighter.
 
Last edited:
Oct 25, 2017
8,115
This forum is dumb sometimes. It's entirely possible to focus your attention/excitement on more than one thing + not everyone watches Marvel movies.
Indeed. Also I'm surprised people think this is going to matter a lot. It's just a trailer reveal. We already know when it launches and we've seen two previous entries of the series so we pretty much know what to expect from this new entry. What matters more is the execution of the marketing campaign near the release because Spider-Man will have a huge one. But Spider-Man will only affect some PS4 players so I don't think Tomb Raider is in trouble.
 

SirKai

Member
Dec 28, 2017
7,366
Washington
I think Shadow of the Tomb Raider will have a slower drip of appeal and attention to more casual folks who see it by surprise as "Oh, a new Tomb Raider game? Cool, I'll get it."

It probably won't do gangbusters out of the gate, especially with how crowded September is, but I think it'll be well long term through 2019. The September onslaught is also helped since DQXI and Spider-Man aren't on Xbox, so Shadow won't have as much competition there.
 

takufox

Member
Oct 27, 2017
173
The way things are going with the release date, it will flop, they better move it up a couple weeks. I don't think the timing for the reveal is bad.
 

Quakeguy

Banned
Feb 3, 2018
938
More than that, I truly hope they will bring something completely new to the table.

Another Rise of the Tomb Raider with just improved graphics will be so disappointing.
 

tarman76

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,115
Not seeing Avengers til Sunday, but don't know how a movie release makes a gameplay reveal a bad idea. Also, I'm baffled at the seemingly unreasonable amount of hate this series is seeing here. I really enjoyed both games so far and I'm looking forward to the reveal.

This place is strange sometimes.
 

RebelDeux

Member
Nov 20, 2017
180
I think that while Spider-Man is going to hurt her sales in PS4, she at least has X1 and PC, plus if the game is good, the game can sell something considerable if we take in account the installed base for PS4.

Also the movie while it wasn't a big blockbuster, made the audiences aware of the franchise, so who knows.
 

Shauni

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,728
I think that while Spider-Man is going to hurt her sales in PS4, she at least has X1 and PC, plus if the game is good, the game can sell something considerable if we take in account the installed base for PS4.

Also the movie while it wasn't a big blockbuster, made the audiences aware of the franchise, so who knows.

The last two games sold really well and the brand recognition goes back decades. The audiences are well aware of TR lol
 
Oct 27, 2017
11,506
Bandung Indonesia
I don't understand why anyone would think TR would just go and die, especially in comparison to something like Dragon Quest XI. If anything TR would most certainly have a good chance to sell more than DQ XI in the western market at the very least.
 

Shauni

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,728
I don't understand why anyone would think TR would just go and die, especially in comparison to something like Dragon Quest XI. If anything TR would most certainly have a good chance to sell more than DQ XI in the western market at the very least.

The attitude around here for the new TR games are so bizarre and outside reality it's kind of startling in a way
 
Oct 27, 2017
11,506
Bandung Indonesia
I am actually more worried about Dragon Quest XI precisely because it is sandwiched between Spiderman and Tomb Raider, haha.

Oh and Red Dead Redemption 2 too, if that game is coming out on schedule that is.
 

the_wart

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,261
I don't understand why anyone would think TR would just go and die, especially in comparison to something like Dragon Quest XI. If anything TR would most certainly have a good chance to sell more than DQ XI in the western market at the very least.

TR is going to demolish DQXI in the western market. They're on totally different tiers.
 

Enzo88

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
512
Tokyo
I hope the game does well enough and that Square has realistic expectations (according to the invested budget)this time.

Rise of the Tomb Raider is still one of my favorite games this gen.
 

lowlifelenny

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,408
I've got greater confidence that Shadow of the Tomb Raider will be a great game than Spider-Man (not that Insomniac hasn't shown it knows enjoyable locomotion in Sunset Overdrive).

This is how I feel as well. So far I haven't seen anything from Spider-Man which entices me other than it looking visually striking and very polished, but I've played and enjoyed the last two Tomb Raider games, so Crystal Dynamics' pedigree is assured as far as I'm concerned. I feel confident I can pick up Shadow and not be disappointed.

I wouldn't call it dead, but Rise's exclusivity really hurt the brand on PS4 which is its biggest market.

But they can recover with an exceptional sequel, gamers are heavily influenced by positive reception.

Rise is a really good example of timed exclusivity sabotaging a multiplat IP.

And you're right, all it takes is one great game to re-establish loyalties.
 
Last edited:

Deleted member 17491

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,099
So much negativity. Some seem really disturbed and upset by the idea that Spiderman might not sell more than Tomb Raider. Both games will probably do just fine folks.
 
Oct 25, 2017
12,319
Revealing a new game alongside the launch of you're movie is on paper a good idea ... But they just didn't follow it up with anything