Edmond Dantès

It belongs in a museum!
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Aug 24, 2022
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Alexandria, Egypt
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When modern humans emerged from Africa, they explored far more than just new places. They encountered other human species, and in the Zagros Mountains of Iran, they did a heck of a lot more than just say hello.

New research suggests this is where Homo sapiens and Homo neanderthalensis interbred, changing the fate of at least our species, as we still carry Neanderthal DNA millennia later.

Archaeologist Saman Guran from Germany's University of Cologne and colleagues used a combination of genetic, archaeological, topographical, and ecological data to narrow down the location.

"We believe that the Zagros Mountains acted as a corridor… facilitating northwards dispersal of [modern humans] and southwards dispersal of Neanderthals," the team writes in their published paper.

This area includes one of the best-known Neanderthal sites, Shanidar Cave, where the remains of ten Neanderthal individuals were discovered, including the famous flower burial.

Discoveries such as these have revealed Neanderthals are far smarter, creative, and caring than we initially gave them credit for.

Guran and team's modeling based on the multiple data sources suggests the Zagros Mountains are where the environmental conditions that best suit modern humans and those best suited to our now extinct cousins overlap.

It includes regions of colder habitats like the Neanderthals' Palearctic birthplaces, as well as the warmer richer habitats of the Afrotropical realm that birthed our own species.

"Archaeological and fossil evidence indicates that [modern humans] entered southwestern Asia during [this time]," the researchers say.

The timing, between around 120 and 80 thousand years ago, coincides with the second wave of interbreeding that's still written in our genes.

With its high biodiversity, the Zagros region also had enough resources to allow both species to exist side by side, and the variety of environments allowed for pockets of safety when climatic conditions got tough.

"The border areas of two realms are important in biology since they operate as refugia for species from glacial environments," Guran and team explain.

Article:

www.sciencealert.com

We May Have Found Where Modern Humans And Neanderthals Became One

An encounter that changed the fate of our species.

Study:

www.nature.com

Reconstructing contact and a potential interbreeding geographical zone between Neanderthals and anatomically modern humans - Scientific Reports

While the interbreeding of Homo neanderthalensis (hereafter Neanderthal) and Anatomically modern human (AMH) has been proven, owing to the shortage of fossils and absence of appropriate DNA, the timing and geography of their interbreeding are not clearly known. In this study, we applied...
 
Oct 27, 2017
7,943
When two become onnnnneeeee,
I need some love like I've never needed love before,
Gonna make love to ya' Homo,
Had a little love, now I'm back for more,
Gonna make love Homo Sapiens,
Set your spirit free,
It's the only way to beeeeeeeeee.
 

Maligna

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,129
Canada
I wonder what our species would be like if Neanderthals died out before we met them and this interbreeding never happened?

What would modern homosapiens look like and what would our brain capacity be? Would these things be much different?
 

H.Cornerstone

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,222
I wonder what our species would be like if Neanderthals died out before we met them and this interbreeding never happened?

What would modern homosapiens look like and what would our brain capacity be? Would these things be much different?
Probably not much different, there are a large number of people living in Africa today with no Neanderthal DNA
 

Kain

Unshakable Resolve - One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
8,212
I remember when in school they talked about as if Neanderthals were this sad group of primitive peoples that were pushed to extinction by the mean Sapiens when in reality it seems that a) they were very very similar to Sapiens in mostly everything and b) there was plenty of interbreeding so they more diluted than go extinct.
 
Feb 24, 2018
5,986
If I'm not mistaken, isn't the Indonesian era where many homo sapiens and Denisovans interbred?

I do hope this interbreeding was consensual given our species habit for awfulness (which I would assume wasn't just a Sapiens traits).
 

Volimar

volunteer forum janitor
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Oct 25, 2017
42,647
Bow chika wow wow

And then many, many generations later, their descendants tried to clap cheeks with aliens at Area 51.
 

Ocean Bones

Avenger
Oct 29, 2017
4,797
Any way to tell if this was a mutual thing, or was it mostly our males raping their females?

Also can't help but wonder how close in intelligence the two groups were at this time and how this affected our brains .
 

JonnyDBrit

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Oct 25, 2017
11,754
Right smack in the fertile crescent , it could explain why the earliest cities were there

Not... really?

Like the gap between Neanderthals dying off, and the likes of Çatalhöyük is a good 30k years or so by itself, and this is modelling climactic conditions that might facilitate admixture over 100k years ago.

Barring way more discoveries for which there's no precedent, this has very, very little to do with the emergence of urban settlement
 

Dekuman

Member
Oct 27, 2017
19,391
Not... really?

Like the gap between Neanderthals dying off, and the likes of Çatalhöyük is a good 30k years or so by itself, and this is modelling climactic conditions that might facilitate admixture over 100k years ago.

Barring way more discoveries for which there's no precedent, this has very, very little to do with the emergence of urban settlement
You're probably right. I'm just going off the vibes of there being more and better ideasfrom the intermixing of different groups and genetic diversity in that area that propelled early civilizations emerging there specifically.

it's probably a PhD level dissertation if i am to argue it or against it, so this forum post is just an gut feeling with nothing behind it.
 

Small Red Boy

▲ Legend ▲
Member
May 9, 2019
2,698
Any way to tell if this was a mutual thing, or was it mostly our males raping their females?

Also can't help but wonder how close in intelligence the two groups were at this time and how this affected our brains .
Probably can be done by checking the mitochondrial DNA (maternal) and Y chromosome DNA (paternal), and probably has been done before.
 

TCB

Member
Oct 19, 2019
765
When two become onnnnneeeee,

Holy shit, I started singing that exact line in my head when I saw the thread title, and I can't even remember the last time I heard one of their songs.

lol that song popped into my head immediately when I read the thread title

Truly, a fascinating topic.. and yet, Spice Girls is the first thing that popped into my head when I read the title

Seems like a common experience, lol.
 

Midas

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,895
I think that's the worst infographic I've ever seen? Like why is the water WHITE? I'm probably tired but it took me a minute to grasp what I was looking at. :lol
 

JonnyDBrit

God and Anime
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,754
I think that's the worst infographic I've ever seen? Like why is the water WHITE? I'm probably tired but it took me a minute to grasp what I was looking at. :lol

Because it's a climatic map? The ocean doesn't count for these purposes so it's treated as blank, which is incredibly standard. As another example:
koppen-geiger-climate-classification-map-and-key.png