Quantic Dream is suing two French media outlets over articles on toxic work conditions [Kotaku]

Deleted member 41271 · Apr 23, 2018

And David Cage just proved the allegations true. What a Walker(TM) kind of move.

Ellen Page model did not have genitalia, just "nipples", and was in no way visible during gameplay. Modders broke the game to access it. The model in question could have nipples for a multitude of reasons beyond "what a monster Cage is".

There is literally zero reason to add that level of detail to a model. You never need this kind of detail when animating a character that is never seen nude. A character can be animated without problems in underwear, or without ever working on the nude parts at all.

Good workl trying to defend this unquestionably awful behavior.

Yes, they are. Not only french laws but european laws.

Being blacklisted for exposing a toxic workplace? By who? Some ither toxic developers?

And you have zero clue what the french workplace is actually like for women. It shows, trust me, it really does.

MattWilsonCSS · Apr 23, 2018

Slaythe said:
Ellen Page model did not have genitalia, just "nipples", and was in no way visible during gameplay. Modders broke the game to access it. The model in question could have nipples for a multitude of reasons beyond "what a monster Cage is".

List em. List the reasons.

Thorrgal · Apr 23, 2018

dosh said:
Unfortunately, it doesn't work that way most of the time. You'd be surprised at how much shit people have resigned themselves to endure just to keep their job.

If they have to endure so much now is their chance to talk to Le Monde , anonimously, and explain all that. That they can't leave, that they are afraid to come forward, all the toxic things that go on, etc

Adamska · Apr 23, 2018

Machachan said:
And David Cage just proved the allegations true. What a Walker(TM) kind of move.

Of course, only those guilty of something can litigate on a certain matter.

FireSafetyBear · Apr 23, 2018

Slaythe said:
Let's see

Ellen Page model did not have genitalia, just "nipples", and was in no way visible during gameplay. Modders broke the game to access it. The model in question could have nipples for a multitude of reasons beyond "what a monster Cage is".

As for his black people, maybe that was just a bad character, let's took at the others

Farenheit

Beyond

Detroit

Detroit has the best models. Jesse Williams is a beaut.

Yep · Apr 23, 2018

Thorrgal said:
If they have to endure so much now is their chance to talk to Le Monde , anonimously, and explain all that. That they can't leave, that they are afraid to come forward, all the toxic things that go on, etc

Isn't it what 20+ employees and ex-employees already did during the first interview?

mael · Apr 23, 2018

Yep said:
Isn't it what 20+ employees and ex-employees already did during the first interview?

They don't count because David Cage worked with employees.

RevenantAxe · Apr 23, 2018

This will not go well. Don't think media outlets will sit quiet and let him attack them. They all will get even more aggressive.

Slaythe · Apr 23, 2018

MattWilsonCSS said:
List em. List the reasons.

1) The 3d artist did it

2) They had them modeled for some clothes

3) They didn't use Ellen Page's actual body so they used one of their already textured bodies captured (they're a capture studio as well as a video game studio) since this would never be seen anyway

4) Artistic shadows of the figure for the shower scene

As I said there's no genitalia textured or modeled so let's stop acting like this was some sort of perverted endeavor. Shower scenes are a staple of these games god dammit !

BernardoOne · Apr 23, 2018

Slaythe said:
Let's see

Ellen Page model did not have genitalia, just "nipples", and was in no way visible during gameplay. Modders broke the game to access it. The model in question could have nipples for a multitude of reasons beyond "what a monster Cage is".

As for his black people, maybe that was just a bad character, let's took at the others

Farenheit

Beyond

Detroit

Tyler

the black dude he put playing basketball while in middle of a fucking snowstorm while funky music is playing?

dosh · Apr 23, 2018

Thorrgal said:
If they have to endure so much now is their chance to talk to Le Monde , anonimously, and explain all that. That they can't leave, that they are afraid to come forward, all the toxic things that go on, etc

I get what you're saying, but I really don't think it's that easy for any employee, even with guaranteed anonymity in the press. Again, this is a really, really small industry. Even more so in Paris, where QD is based.

Goron2000 · Apr 23, 2018

Slaythe said:
Let's see

Ellen Page model did not have genitalia, just "nipples", and was in no way visible during gameplay. Modders broke the game to access it. The model in question could have nipples for a multitude of reasons beyond "what a monster Cage is".

As for his black people, maybe that was just a bad character, let's took at the others

Farenheit

Beyond

Detroit

Some ok representations don't make up for shit like this

Grettir_the_Swole · Apr 23, 2018

Kouriozan said:
All this is going to do is expose even more the situation they had.

I don't know about the tech industry in Paris but sexism is strife in Silicon Valley. There are so many horror stories only the worst offenders seem to be punished at all. If Cage is risking all this money to go to court, there must be more than an adequate amount of evidence to support these claims and Cage is trying to systemically distance himself from the charges as much as possible (ie: Blame someone else in passing).

Deleted member 10737 · Apr 23, 2018

oh cool, he's racist too. let's see people [try to] defend that.

Deleted member 5535 · Apr 23, 2018

Primethius said:
Yes, people generally hate companies with toxic work environments.

I'm glad we've established that.

It's a shame that this don't happen with Rockstar then, considering that they're known for that for years

Tecnniqe · Apr 23, 2018

Spedfrom · Apr 23, 2018

I'm not siding with anyone. But I will say that there seems to be a lot of weight behind the accusations. Hopefully the court will clarify everything.

Regardless, I loved Heavy Rain and am very much looking forward to Detroit. Hundreds of people have worked on these games and Cage's role in the latest one seems to be smaller anyway. I see little reason to not buy this game.

Asbsand · Apr 23, 2018

Alderade said:
I don't understand QD reaction on this.
If you have 3 media outlets who spoke about a bad working environnement in you company : you fix it !

QD will loose in court but they want to brag about this because they think it's damaging their reputation.

Not if you're a delusional David Cage who thinks you're doing no wrong, want to continue doing it and think someone has harrassed you with untrue slander.

I'm so imagining this is the mentality inside the company.

RumbleHumble · Apr 23, 2018

Gamers 2013: Why isn't there more critical, investgative journalism in the games industry?!

Gamers 2018: Why is there so much critical investgative journalism in the games industry?!

eseqko · Apr 23, 2018

Nemesis162 said:
It's a shame that this don't happen with Rockstar then, considering that they're known for that for years

Team Bondi essentially stopped making games after the LA Noire allegations.

okayfrog · Apr 23, 2018

RumbleHumble said:
Gamers 2013: Why isn't there more critical, investgative journalism in the games industry?!

Gamers 2018: Why is there so much critical investgative journalism in the games industry?!

Gamers don't want critical investigative journalism. They just want reviews that match up to their opinions. To them, that's good journalism.

Deleted member 41271 · Apr 23, 2018

Slaythe said:
1) The 3d artist did it

Still bad since they knew about it. Plenty of possibilities to remove it afterwards, and they didn't.

2) They had them modeled for some clothes

You have zero clue about games development. You do not need to do this, ever. TBH, the only reason you WOULD need them (service) is gross in itself in this particular situation.

3) They didn't use Ellen Page's actual body so they used one of their already textured bodies captured (they're a capture studio as well as a video game studio) since this would never be seen anyway

Sure, if so, the newspapers reporting on it just accidentally had monkeys write the articles that accidentally ended up saying what they did entirely randomly, so the lawsuit is null.

4) Artistic shadows of the figure for the shower scene

Again, clueless: It's never needed unless you want to sexually titilate in a shitty way when the model already told you not to.

As I said there's no genitalia textured or modeled so let's stop acting like this was some sort of perverted endeavor. Shower scenes are a staple of these games god dammit !

Yes, let's stop pretending this wasn't sexist bullshit against the model's explicit and directly stated wishes.

I will never understand why certain people go this far to defend sexism that is *this* blatant and terrible.

Deleted member 4976 · Apr 23, 2018

Tecnniqe said:

This is such a bullshit tweet. The whole thing is incredibly murky. If you buy Detroit, you're also funding the people who have had to suffer in a toxic environment. It's not clear cut if there is a right answer in regards to purchasing it or not.

Unless of course the goal is to have the people who worked and suffered in those conditions simply go out of a job because fuck David Cage or something as the principle.

Thorrgal · Apr 23, 2018

dosh said:
I get what you're saying, but I really don't think it's that easy for any employee, even with guaranteed anonymity in the press. Again, this is a really, really small industry. Even more so in Paris, where QD is based.

I don't know man, ...maybe

Buy usually when a few come forward to expose something, more follow afterwards.

PS: I'm not french but I live less than an hour away from the border, and the french workers have always been a model for us. And I work for a french tech company, for what that's worth

Deleted member 10737 · Apr 23, 2018

RumbleHumble said:
Gamers 2013: Why isn't there more critical, investgative journalism in the games industry?!

Gamers 2018: Why is there so much critical investgative journalism in the games industry?!

"gamers" just want stuff that reaffirms what they already believe. they want reviews (well, scores, they don't care about the actual review) that are in the 8-10 range, paid-for advertising and puff pieces, and interviews that are just repeating the stuff advertised some place else. actual journalism seems to have no right to exist if it's actually about holding companies they love accountable and uncovering the shady shit that goes on behind the scenes. that was confirmed for me in the initial thread about the QD allegations where fans didn't even consider that the story MIGHT be true and just started shitting on le monde and the journalists responsible for the articles.

mael · Apr 23, 2018

If you need to have a nude model of a character to properly clothe it afterward, you're doing it very wrong.
If you can't just slap a texture on wall to use as the shadow in a shower scene you're horrible at your job too.

And why the fuck are shower scene not viewed as a desperate attempt to keep viewer engaged similarly to when gratiutously used in bad movie?

John Wick · Apr 23, 2018

Mistouze said:
Get bent David Cage.

Please, don't buy Detroit.

Why? Over 200 people work at QD. Are they all bad? Just because there are a few bad apples at a studio doesn't mean the whole studio should be held accountable.
Game looks fantastic. Day one buy for me simply for the reason it's totally different to most games

GamerEra · Apr 23, 2018

User has requested to be left out of this conversation and comments removed.

Deleted member 10737 · Apr 23, 2018

John Wick said:
Why? Over 200 people work at QD. Are they all bad? Just because there are a few bad apples at a studio doesn't mean the whole studio should be held accountable.
Game looks fantastic. Day one buy for me simply for the reason it's totally different to most games

Primethius said:
This is such a bullshit tweet. The whole thing is incredibly murky. If you buy Detroit, you're also funding the people who have had to suffer in a toxic environment. It's not clear cut if there is a right answer in regards to purchasing it or not.

Unless of course the goal is to have the people who worked and suffered in those conditions simply go out of a job because fuck David Cage or something as the principle.

the game is coming out, those people can put it on their resume. this game being a success most importantly means more money in cage's pockets. i doubt the game's success would mean a lot for people who aren't higher ups. do they get bonuses?
i doubt at this point sony would want to continue working with a studio with this much negativity around it, and i don't think many other publishers would fund a game by them either. i predict the studio going under and people having to find jobs elsewhere or forming a new studio.

LuisGarcia · Apr 23, 2018

Tecnniqe said:

Jesus fucking christ do people not use their brains anymore. Absolute rubbish.

GamerEra · Apr 23, 2018

Mistouze said:
Get bent David Cage.

Please, don't buy Detroit.

Don't tell us what we can and can't buy.
If people are interested in Detroit there no reason why they shouldn't buy it.

mael · Apr 23, 2018

GamerEra said:
You are assuming the accusations are true. There lies the problem.

You are assuming all media is basically fox news so I guess you're ok with assumptions.

GamerEra · Apr 23, 2018

User has requested to be left out of this conversation and comments removed.

John Wick · Apr 23, 2018

resident_UA said:
That was very specific question that I asked that you just dodged.

He Can't answer it because Newspapers never tell lies or side with the political party their owners align with.

Deleted member 10737 · Apr 23, 2018

GamerEra said:
???.....I don't understand your Fox News reference

it means not believing articles with good sources published in reputable newspapers isn't that productive. not everything is fox news where you can just ignore it and say it's probably not true.

mael · Apr 23, 2018

GamerEra said:
???.....I don't understand your Fox News reference

You're assuming 3 reputable media to report on allegations without doing their due diligence, basically fox news.

John Wick said:
He Can't answer it because Newspapers never tell lies or side with the political party their owners align with.

You have literally no idea what these 3 outlets are, have you?

Slaythe · Apr 23, 2018

mael said:
You are assuming all media is basically fox news so I guess you're ok with assumptions.

French workers are protected by the law. If such abuse was widespread and common practice, there would have been sanctions applied to QD. When QD was investigated, the charges were dismissed.

They had 3 legal actions against them, two they won, and a third on going.

And none for "harassement and discrimination".

Axass · Apr 23, 2018

David Cage is a joke and is running his company into the ground, like Dyack and Jaffe before, and like Bleszinski is on course to do. What do all these people have in common? Being regarded as the creative mind of the company, having huge egos and having terrible relations with the media/press.

I'm sorry for the good people at QD.

enMTW · Apr 23, 2018

Axass said:
David Cage is a joke and is running his company into the ground, like Dyack and Jaffe before, and like Bleszinski is on course to do. What do all these people have in common? Being regarded as the creative mind of the company, having huge egos and having terrible relations with the media/press.

I'm sorry for the good people at QD.

Cliffy B is good though. Those others, not so much.

mael · Apr 23, 2018

Slaythe said:
French workers are protected by the law. If such abuse was widespread and common practice, there would have been sanctions applied to QD. When QD was investigated, the charges were dismissed.

They had 3 legal actions against them, two they won, and a third on going.

And none for "harassement and discrimination".

If the employee doesn't go for harassment and discrimination, QC won't be sued for it.
That doesn't mean it's not happening.
That they won on wrongful termination is only saying that the judges think they didn't terminate the employee without cause.
It literally says nothing about harassment or discrimination.
And again the French justice system is horrible on harassment and discrimination that I would put too much weight on a justice decision.
On something far more serious like rape, it is known that the police will interrogate the victim like a suspect and push for the victim to retract.
It is so common knowledge there's movies about it
Text laws and applications are worlds apart.

Kenzodielocke · Apr 23, 2018

Honestly, where there is smoke, there is fire. I don't know why the outlets would make up any of this.

John Wick · Apr 23, 2018

ghostcrew said:
The whole situation is just so sad and I really don't think I could even contemplate buying Detroit at the moment. Just foul.

I choose to believe the three (very reputable) publications that all reported on the allegations. If Quantic Dream want to come out and show how their working conditions are actually good/show that they've put time and effort into improving them then fine. But no, they're just suing the journalists. I can't just bury my head in the sand with shit like this. It's so sad.

This is the sort of stuff that amazes me. I will not buy this game because there are a few bad apples at a development studio. All of the 200+ employees must be guilty? They should all suffer the same fate? I cannot ignore this because of this toxic shit??? Am I right?
Yet I buy products everyday that if I bothered to check were made or bought from where people are working in worse and harsher conditions. Yet I turn a blind eye because the media haven't plastered it across my screen yet. The phones you use are made in factories far far worse than QD. The materials where did they come from???
The clothes you wear were made in factory paying peanuts with long hours and harsh working conditions with probably child labour.
But let's forget all that because you want to do your bit, your good conscience can't turn a blind eye to this toxic company and it's 200+ employees

Animal Liberation Ⓥ · Apr 23, 2018

Tecnniqe said:

This is a trash tweet. Generalizations serve nothing on the side of progress.

John Wick said:
This is the sort of stuff that amazes me. I will not buy this game because there are a few bad apples at a development studio. All of the 200+ employees must be guilty? They should all suffer the same fate? I cannot ignore this because of this toxic shit??? Am I right?
Yet I buy products everyday that if I bothered to check were made or bought from where people are working in worse and harsher conditions. Yet I turn a blind eye because the media haven't plastered it across my screen yet. The phones you use are made in factories far far worse than QD. The materials where did they come from???
The clothes you wear were made in factory paying peanuts with long hours and harsh working conditions with probably child labour.
But let's forget all that because you want to do your bit, your good conscience can't turn a blind eye to this toxic company and it's 200+ employees

Selective compassion/empathy definitely rears it's ugly head in humans.

mael · Apr 23, 2018

John Wick said:
This is the sort of stuff that amazes me. I will not buy this game because there are a few bad apples at a development studio. All of the 200+ employees must be guilty? They should all suffer the same fate? I cannot ignore this because of this toxic shit??? Am I right?
Yet I buy products everyday that if I bothered to check were made or bought from where people are working in worse and harsher conditions. Yet I turn a blind eye because the media haven't plastered it across my screen yet. The phones you use are made in factories far far worse than QD. The materials where did they come from???
The clothes you wear were made in factory paying peanuts with long hours and harsh working conditions with probably child labour.
But let's forget all that because you want to do your bit, your good conscience can't turn a blind eye to this toxic company and it's 200+ employees

When the bad apples are at the top, it's a little more serious than the janitor wearing a MAGA hat to go to work, no?
If you learned that the CEO of GAP directly commissioned children to do their clothes and imposed horrible conditions on its workers, you would still shop there?

Alej · Apr 23, 2018

Slaythe said:
French workers are protected by the law. If such abuse was widespread and common practice, there would have been sanctions applied to QD. When QD was investigated, the charges were dismissed.

They had 3 legal actions against them, two they won, and a third on going.

And none for "harassement and discrimination".

Thanks. Merci.

Please. S'il vous plait.

You are perfectly right. Sources can lie, and never trust anything properly judged.

chandoog · Apr 23, 2018

Tecnniqe said:

Buying the game despite this dumb tweet.

Deleted member 5621 · Apr 23, 2018

AlexCampy89 said:
As if journalism isn't plenty of click baiters and liars...

QD is doing the right thing : you blame me without proofs, and then I sue you for libel /defamation.

We should stop with the attitude "the accuser is always right".

AlexCampy89 said:
Yes, I did, and no proof has been showed.
Unless you consider those shopped pics that could've been made by anyone.

Plus, authorities have investigated and no serious proof of misconduct has been found.

You cannot be serious. Cage and Guillaume admitted to their existence.

You are also implying 3 different media outlets made around 600 fake photomontages of multiple QD employees just to run a story.

Lat · Apr 23, 2018

Tecnniqe said:

What a trash tweet. I guess I'm funding QD''s abusive practices because I've preordered it on PSN.

Mistouze · Apr 23, 2018

GamerEra said:
Don't tell us what we can and can't buy.
If people are interested in Detroit there no reason why they shouldn't buy it.

I said "please" didn't I ?

John Wick · Apr 23, 2018

mael said:
You're assuming 3 reputable media to report on allegations without doing their due diligence, basically fox news.

You have literally no idea what these 3 outlets are, have you?

I think I have a far better idea than you? The question you should ask is do you?
What do you think these papers never made a mistake? Or printed something wrong?
These papers are owned by people who are wealthy and that have political agendas. They are there to make money and fulfill their polital needs. Maybe you think they are run by some people who are the worlds unbiased saviors.
There are bad apples at QD but that's true with any organisation with 200+ people in one building. But you can't tarnish the whole studio cause of a few choice cunts

Quantic Dream is suing two French media outlets over articles on toxic work conditions [Kotaku]

User requested account closure

Banned for use of an alt-account

The Wise Ones

User requested account closure

User requested account closure

Community Resettler

User requested account closure

User requested account closure

User requested account closure

User requested account closure

The Wise Ones