Yes if they specifically praised that person's contribution. Not the work in general.
Will be interested to see how that applies to Detroit if necessary considering it would the equivalent of not praising Druckmann or Barlog.
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Quantic Dream is suing two French media outlets over articles on toxic work conditions [Kotaku]
- Thread starter Magneto
- Start date
Yes if they specifically praised that person's contribution. Not the work in general.
Will be interested to see how that applies to Detroit if necessary considering it would the equivalent of not praising Druckmann or Barlog.
From the Kingdom Come OT:
So no, people did not get warned for telling people not to buy the game. People did get warned -- and banned -- for telling people they're bad people for buying the game, though. There is a difference.
I feel like we've really derailed from the plot here, which is funny because that's a David Cage trademark
This idea that bad management can use their workers as shield for their incompetent actions is so terrible.
I'll never understand why gamers always like to side with those who already have the power or a big platform. It really is a unique thing compared to other mediums.
I'll never understand why gamers always like to side with those who already have the power or a big platform. It really is a unique thing compared to other mediums.
Especially since it's clearly bad enough where multiple people left.
It doesn't even seem comparable to KCD where the lead guy was an ass on social media but the team themselves seem to get along, this is a much different dynamic where the workers themselves are treated like crap.
I like the visual of people lining up to buy a David Cage game to trigger the libs.
At least Kingdom Come looked like a decent game.
Yes, what they reported was not the entire story, thus not the whole truth.
Again, not alledging the story was wrong or inaccurate, but that they didn't get to respond - their response could be an apology, a PR statement or a complete fabrication, it's not about the truth but that the journalist gave due consideration to the company - they gave them 11 days to respond, and to put what they wanted out there - apparently that wasn't enough. They are suing over that, not that the story wasn't factual.
French has amazing laws on paper but I have worked with plenty of French companies that abuse the shit out of their workers and break the law at every opportunity.
You should get your facts straight, they are suing over reports that they vehemently denied:
Therefore, the very truth of the reports is being contested.
If you mean the grey ERA logo I think that's standard for anyone without a set avatar. Fairly recent change.
Ah that makes sense
Amazing the difference a visual can cause on perception and comprehension
Are they suing that it wasn't real or are they suing cus they didn't get to say their say? The OP's article suggests the latter - also they didn't deny that the photos were real (the ones that are homophobic and sexist and some even have Nazi imagery) and the fact that in 2015 and 2016 they had a staff turnover of 50% - that's remarkebly high.
It's honestly baffling to me how so many of you care so much about what people spend their money on.
Right now I'm drinking Nestle bottled water, the same Nestle that actively sources their water from droughted communities and markets their baby formula in an unethical manner. I'm posting from an Apple iPad that was made in sweatshop-like conditions, fully knowing that their company abuses loopholes to get away from their tax dues and their former CEO was a borderline sociopath. I paid to watch Hacksaw Ridge and The Mummy when they came out. Absolutely enjoyed both films. One was directed by a supposed racist and the other was headlined by a Scientology symbol. When I was in Vegas a few months ago, I stayed at Trump International (nuff said) and ate at Ramsay Burger (the guy literally made his name by being a massive, yet enjoyable to watch, asshole) and couldn't have asked for a better experience.
Every single company is going to have shit people, bad policies and questionable scandals. And the chances are the higher you go the higher the shit piles. The deeper you go the more skeletons you'll be able to find in the closets. What does boycotting them or trying to convince other people (on a video game forum of all places) accomplish?
If you really want to benefit your cause don't just whine and complain about it on a forum. Get educated, become influential, and change will come naturally. More often than not if you only complain about something and do nothing else you are going to make the issue worse.
Edit: And to suggest someone purchasing the game is supporting sexism/racism is downright preposterous and ignorant. If purchasing a product or service indicates your views I suppose I would be supporting racist Scientologist asshole sociopaths that don't file their taxes.
Right now I'm drinking Nestle bottled water, the same Nestle that actively sources their water from droughted communities and markets their baby formula in an unethical manner. I'm posting from an Apple iPad that was made in sweatshop-like conditions, fully knowing that their company abuses loopholes to get away from their tax dues and their former CEO was a borderline sociopath. I paid to watch Hacksaw Ridge and The Mummy when they came out. Absolutely enjoyed both films. One was directed by a supposed racist and the other was headlined by a Scientology symbol. When I was in Vegas a few months ago, I stayed at Trump International (nuff said) and ate at Ramsay Burger (the guy literally made his name by being a massive, yet enjoyable to watch, asshole) and couldn't have asked for a better experience.
Every single company is going to have shit people, bad policies and questionable scandals. And the chances are the higher you go the higher the shit piles. The deeper you go the more skeletons you'll be able to find in the closets. What does boycotting them or trying to convince other people (on a video game forum of all places) accomplish?
If you really want to benefit your cause don't just whine and complain about it on a forum. Get educated, become influential, and change will come naturally. More often than not if you only complain about something and do nothing else you are going to make the issue worse.
Edit: And to suggest someone purchasing the game is supporting sexism/racism is downright preposterous and ignorant. If purchasing a product or service indicates your views I suppose I would be supporting racist Scientologist asshole sociopaths that don't file their taxes.
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The article says, for one:
And back in January, Guillaume posted:
Their message was always in denial of the accusations posted by those news outlets and if they are suing now it is based on the falsehood of the accusations. What people seem to not understand is that the outlets reported that the very management of the company were complict in toxic practices inside the company, an accusation that Cage and Guillaume denied. This doesn't mean that nothing happened inside QD that could've provoked a response from someone, but that whatever happened was not sanctioned or otherwise incited by the company's management. This is what must be at the heart of their litigation against those outlets.
so you don't want people to just complain on a forum. however you also don't want them to boycott a product and you don't want them to convince other people to either. so when you tell someone to stop complaining on a forum and to get educated and become influential what exactly are they supposed to do with that education and influence? seems like what you really want is for people to shut up
The thing that makes me laugh is when people tell me those French publications are deemed good. No they are not. Le Monde is not good, don't read it, don't buy it (French already has stop. Our entire press survive thanks to state money).
On the matters at hand. I don't know what happened at QD and I don't get how people are already convinced before a judgement. If the reporter did their job badly shouldn't they be "punished" ?
On the matters at hand. I don't know what happened at QD and I don't get how people are already convinced before a judgement. If the reporter did their job badly shouldn't they be "punished" ?
There's a lot to go over from your post, but this stood out to me. What do you mean by this? How is the issue going to become worse?
User Warned: Complaining about the thread.
Do actual meaningful things instead of wasting time and effort on an internet forum? Work your way up a corporate ladder and enforce those ideals yourself? Open your own business which embraces those values? Run for local office and use your viewpoints as the cornerstone of your campaign? At the very least become a respectable member of your community so people will lend an ear to you?
"Yeah, but those are hard, and take time."
No shit they are, if they weren't they wouldn't be worth doing. Change has never come easy and it never will.
Or you can just whine on a forum and try and boycott a video game. I'm sure the multiples of $60 that they're missing out on will really affect their bottom line.
not everyone has to be punished for the allegations to be proven true. harvey weinstein hasn't been officially punished, are people not believing all those women who came forward against her?
what do you think this forum is if not a community? yes, it's a video game forum where we talk about videos and the industry surrounding it. if people hear about a studio with bad practices they're going to complain about it, whether it be how loot boxes were implemented in a game or the current allegations against QD. and since you're so concerned about what people are or aren't doing with their time outside of this forum where they only whine and complain what are you doing to enact meaningful change to get all these people who are just whining and complaining to do someone that would be productive by your standards? or are you just whining on here about it?
Sounds like you need to stop whining about people whining on a forum. Maybe try doing actual meaningful things instead of wasting time and effort on an internet forum? Work your way up a corporate ladder and enforce those ideals yourself? Open your own business which embraces those values? Run for local office and use your viewpoints as the cornerstone of your campaign? At the very least become a respectable member of your community so people will lend an ear to you?
"Yeah, but those are hard, and take time."
No shit they are, if they weren't they wouldn't be worth doing. Change has never come easy and it never will.
I was more speaking about the bad reporting. If they reported badly, they should be recall what are the rules of deontology.
And about what you said, no one has come to talk about it, it's only been "I've heard", "I've been told". Clearly not the same cases with Weinstein. either in numbers or action. Comparing the two is quite bold ! come on now, please.
Detroit looks like an amazing game. I really can't wait to play it.
edit: i understood that post wrongly, they were talking about the reporter being punished not cage and the other guy
I'm not concerned at all of how any of you spend your time. It's a video game forum. I'm just genuinely curious of how invested some people are in how others spend their money.
I'm not complaining either, sorry if it came off that way.
Guess I've been reported though, no more replies from me, sorry boys.
Cause we have seen with Weinstein how it ends in the film industry, surely in the game industry, with a lot of people changing studios all the time it would be better and going forward with a testimony would end very well.
People going forward against Weinstein have had a lot of problems with their careers since, and I am pretty sure the same would happen with the game industry. Like it has already happened for some (Deshilets iirc).
If it goes to court (as it seems to be) the defense has probably asked the different people who went forward to add their name to the testimony, we just have to wait for that.
By the looks of things you only got warned, so you're free stick around to discuss things if you want.
Call me back when you have direct racist quotes attributed to Tim Cook.
They may be cheats and avoid paying taxes through all possible means but they sure as well do not suffer racist, sexist shit running amok in their structure when they're told about it.
Google had a shitbag sharing posts about how women were inferior beings, that guy is now no longer at Google.
The guy sharing the sexual and racist photoshops is still working at QC, they didn't care enough to do anything about it and actually think more about the 'honor' of their company than about the well being of their employee.
Fuck for how crass Foxconn was about employee suicide they at least acted in a way to prevent loss of employee (granted in the worst way possible).
Yes clearly QC is at the forefront of the pushback against Russia!
and strange that they would go with Lemonde when L'huma is pretty much doing that 24/7
And the assertion that a journalistic outlet shouldn't have revealed the Rainbow Warrior or Chirac's corruption because it damaged France's international interest is goddamn hilarious.
e: and btw the people implicated in the book of Cohen and Péans have been let go some kind of 10 years ago.
You're basically arguing that Nintendo is a bully now because Yamauchi.
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are you really comparing the state of a media outlet today compared to when it was during the cold war
are you really doing that
User Warned: Attempting to discredit a publication with bad faith commentary
as I see, nothing changed since then
I guess we've gone from "Le Monde are Nintendo fanboys" to "Le Monde are jealous of QD" to "Le Monde are a Russian mouthpiece".
Remind me again what whose allegations against Le Monde have to do with Quantic Dream?
Remind me again what whose allegations against Le Monde have to do with Quantic Dream?
Directors
- Hubert Beuve-Méry (1944–1969)
- Jacques Fauvet (1969–1981)
- Claude Julien (1981–1982)
- André Laurens (1982–1985)
- André Fontaine (1985–1991)
- Jacques Lesourne (1991–1994)
- Jean-Marie Colombani (1994–2007)
- Éric Fottorino (2007–2010)
- Érik Izraelewicz (2011–2012)
- Alain Frachon (2012–2013)
- Natalie Nougayrède (2013–2014)
- Jérôme Fenoglio (2014–)
But I guess the outlet that worked on Panama Papers and Paradize Papers doesn't really know how to do standard journalism and they're really just an anti US pravda...
Their work in uncovering Putin's financial dealings really is just a ploy to get some credibility, they will never stop until any and all capitalist America is dead or in jail, clearly.
The thing I find interesting about that attitude is that a logical corollary is "If shitty practices make the game good, I don't care that my money is rewarding that"; that's pretty much the entire foundation that underpins crunch culture.
The allegations do suggest that QD's practices are much worse than simple crunch, of course, but I wouldn't be surprised if some of them are perceived to have a positive outcome on the game - which raises the question: at what point does a purchase be regarded as an endorsement of those practices; the ends justifying the means?
I'm curious where the cutoff point lies for the people who make the statement you're suggesting.
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I think there are better ways to punish the company. I agree with the punishment that the Paris council would levy against them in assessing the amount of public funding they receive and terminating or freezing tax breaks and additional funding from government projects. Further they should be kept under inspection to monitor future behaviours and allow the removal of the toxic waste in the company (whether the CEO and COO or anyone else) and expediting the process of hiring a more diverse and inclusive staff. QD has problems and indeed instead of using the articles as a wake-up call they have decided to sue. They should be looking at themselves and rebuilding, bulking up HR to handle these situations but they haven't and for that, whether involved directly or not they should be punished.
BUT to denigrate or attack people who would buy the game is unacceptable. Pewdiepie has displayed countless times that he can't be trusted to act in an acceptable way and I chose not to watch any of his content, but I also don't attack people who do. They can do what they want at the end of the day it is up to sponsors and collaborators to make the right choice, that shouldn't be imposed onto people, They have free will. It is their decision to interact with the content they want in this case it is within legal guidelines for them to do so. I may state that my personal preference is they didn't but to suggest they're 'terrible' or 'evil' for consuming products from a brand or company that has unacceptable practices, is only inflammatory in the long run. The real change can only come from a sustained and discernable effort by organisations which support QD putting sanctions on them and any other company who would do the same. Attacking people who buy their product, some perhaps unwittingly and without knowing the full scale of information? Not so much.
BUT to denigrate or attack people who would buy the game is unacceptable. Pewdiepie has displayed countless times that he can't be trusted to act in an acceptable way and I chose not to watch any of his content, but I also don't attack people who do. They can do what they want at the end of the day it is up to sponsors and collaborators to make the right choice, that shouldn't be imposed onto people, They have free will. It is their decision to interact with the content they want in this case it is within legal guidelines for them to do so. I may state that my personal preference is they didn't but to suggest they're 'terrible' or 'evil' for consuming products from a brand or company that has unacceptable practices, is only inflammatory in the long run. The real change can only come from a sustained and discernable effort by organisations which support QD putting sanctions on them and any other company who would do the same. Attacking people who buy their product, some perhaps unwittingly and without knowing the full scale of information? Not so much.
For me, I'm not avoiding the game because of a boycott. I'd just feel a bit gross playing the game personally. It's a personal call on me looking at a load of (pretty serious) allegations and feeling very upset by it and not being able to put that aside to enjoy a piece of content by them.
For me, as an avid gamer, it's very very easy to just not buy one game if it makes me uncomfortable. It doesn't have to be a boycott or a huge movement. There are just hundreds of other games out next month that aren't publicly linked to racism and sexism that I can play instead. Hell, I'm barely 10 hours into God of War at this point. Don't see people saying 'fuck this game' and think everyone is out to create some huge boycott and shame others. For me it's a 'this all sounds gross, I don't want to touch it'.
Ivan Gaudé (Canard PC's publishing director) was invited to talk on a podcast at Gamekult (FR, Paywall) about the printed press and they briefly talked at the end about the Quantic Dream affair (the conversation was recorded BEFORE the lawsuits against Le Monde and Mediapart). Some interesting elements about the reception of the story:
Edit: Aslo, Waypoint talked about QD in their recent podcast(around 38:10). They've been having a firm position on this case since the beginning and they're not hiding it here, but it's still an interesting talk IMO.
Edit: Aslo, Waypoint talked about QD in their recent podcast(around 38:10). They've been having a firm position on this case since the beginning and they're not hiding it here, but it's still an interesting talk IMO.
I don't automatically believe every accusation against him that's flooded out after the initial story.
I have no doubt some of them are true, but I don't automatically think 100%. I'm just a type of person who wants to see proof.
And aren't most judicial systems set up the same way, requiring proof?
Oh shit you're a judge?
What would be the sentence for Havey Weinstein with what we now know?
Good one.
More than 3 reputed & knowledgeable news outlets in some country we shall not name, all reporting about who's going to be president bla bla bla.
Probably sources powered by Cambridge analytica, can't be wrong.
Yo, what the fuck is thisTo be fair here, QD has every right to sue, and if the newspapers didn't due their due diligence, they should absolutely be raked over the coals.
But if I'm not being objective here, David Cage not being a beacon of morality wouldn't surprise me in the slightest.
Exhibit A: Ellen Page
Exhibit B: