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PS5 and next Xbox launch speculation - timing and specification
- Thread starter zomgbbqftw
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Print this text and send it to MS to get a job: No interview needed...
I don't know if that is possible at that price. To reach a good yield they need to be at max the same size the Xbox One X SOCs are. Thats only possible with smaller process node as a Zen CPU core is way bigger than a Jaguar core and for 8TF you need some more CUs than what you have on the One X. I also think for a 2019 release the GPU will be still Vega based. The memory cost is a factor too. The above config screams a price way above those $399 if coming in 2019.
No, we don't agree on that at all.
A 2020 PS5 release will likely see a new xbox console along side it.
A 2019 PS5 release also has a chance to have a new xbox there too.
Show your workings / sources please.
http://www.zdnet.com/article/iedm-2017-globalfoundries-announces-7nm-chipmaking-process/
So, if you scaled up a 7nm PS4 Pro APU to the same size it is right now, adding nothing but extra GPU:
4.2 * 2.8 = 11.7 TF
boost the clocks by 40%, since that is what is claimed.
4.2 * 2.8 * 1.4 = 16.4TF
Obviously it won't be that. They will use larger Zen cores instead of Jags. They'd probably prefer a smaller die than piling on so many CUs. Other things will be different. they may prefer to take the power reduction over boosted clocks.
But no, 9TF is not realistic at all for a full-sized die at 7nm in my opinion.[/quote]
You can say that two cars differ 30% in power .....and it's ok
At the same time ..saying.....that both group of consoles xb1/PS4 and Xbox/pro differ +or- the same % ..is an useless comparation also if right in theory.. is done just to downplay the real difference
The difference in tf between x and pro is 4 times the difference between xb1 and PS4...
to design a 3d cube on a screen you need a certain power ....this power don't grow up exponentially when % become bigger ...
Also if the % are the same we know that with a 1.8 console (PS4) you can run uncharted 4
With the difference between xb1 and PS4 (0.5tf) you can't run uncharted 4
The difference between X and Pro is big enough to run an entire unchared 4
(Its a stupid example coz things didn't work like that but is good to understand what I mean with my horrible English ahahaha)
% are relatives saying that there's the same differences is silly and misleading
This is what i expect as well
Some people here mentioned that 7nm Zen is about the same size as 28nm Jaguar for ps4 in 2013.Sounds about right.
Been reading that comment over and over again. The verbosity is just too much for me to get an idea of what his thesis even is anymore...
Ok it will obviously be the fault of my English .... because it's basic math
The trick of relative percentages is very common and is often used to magnify results that are actually quite modest.
Imagine having four water tanks divided into two groups.....now let's pretend that to satisfy the thirst of a person you need 1 liter of water
In the first group we have the first tanks of 1400 liters the second adi 1800 liters
with the difference you satisfy the thirst of 500 people
In the second group we have two tanks of 4200 liters and 6000 liters with the difference you will satisfy 1800 people
say (although correctly) that the differences in% between the tanks and 'the same is misleading because with the difference in value obtained in the second group you can meet much more needs ...
Percentages are relative .... just this
It is correct to state a difference in% between xb1 and ps4
It is correct to state a difference in% between xbx and ps4pro
compare the two groups hoping to make it clear that the value that separates them is the same is wrong
Supposedly the PS4 announcement caught MS with their pants down yet they still managed they released the same year, so I doubt it.
It's not your English.
It's your faulty assumption that an increase in flops provides a linear increase in graphics, equivalent to "satisfying thirsty people". It does not. It's very obvious and your use of the absolute difference is downplaying the underperformance of the Xbox One and overstating the advantage of the One X... which given your clear brand preferences shouldn't come as a surprise, but it is grating - much like someone adamantly arguing that 2+2 = potato.
If the PS5 and Xbox Two come out in Fall 2021 at 25 TF and 26.84TF respectively, all else being equal you will barely be able to tell them apart and the "whole PS4's worth of power capable of running Uncharted 4" will be basically a rounding error for the most part only observable in benchmarks and not some huge gulf in performance that people referring to accurately as "7%" are "downplaying".
It's your faulty assumption that an increase in flops provides a linear increase in graphics, equivalent to "satisfying thirsty people". It does not. It's very obvious and your use of the absolute difference is downplaying the underperformance of the Xbox One and overstating the advantage of the One X... which given your clear brand preferences shouldn't come as a surprise, but it is grating - much like someone adamantly arguing that 2+2 = potato.
If the PS5 and Xbox Two come out in Fall 2021 at 25 TF and 26.84TF respectively, all else being equal you will barely be able to tell them apart and the "whole PS4's worth of power capable of running Uncharted 4" will be basically a rounding error for the most part only observable in benchmarks and not some huge gulf in performance that people referring to accurately as "7%" are "downplaying".
context the ps4 was very under powered for its release. most gamming pcs were 760s or 770s. the ps4 has a equ to a 750ti. the ps4pro is a 970. I think a ps5 will release with a 1150 equ, or about a 1070, which is my reason for saying between 8 and 10 tfps.
Wont next gen consoles be using mobile ryzen? And a 4 core mobile variant should not be much larger then the 2 jaguar clusters?
Not really interested in a xb1 > xb1x level of upgrade. I want a Xbox > 360 level of a jump.
Quote happy with my x1x at this point.
Quote happy with my x1x at this point.
[/QUOTE]
Like i said, we don't know how big Zen+ and Navi will be.
Just speculation.
than you will be waiting til the ps6, also the xb1 cpu per core performance is worse than the 360, but makes up for it by having way more cores.
Remember, the mid-gen refreshes just play games made for the originals with higher-end visuals and sometimes better framerates. Actual next-gen consoles won't just bring a visual jump, they will use Zen CPUs to create games not possible on the current consoles. 60fps may also be more common but that's down to developer preference.
I want Sony and Microsoft to both take their time. There is no need for rushing into things. Let this generation play out.
I would rather see 3nm than 7nm to be honest. Moving from 16nm to 3nm would be a huge jump and well worth the advancement by that point.
The PC at this rate is too expensive to even entertain right now. Even the wealthy don't stay wealthy by wasting money.
I just don't want to see Sony make some silly mistakes by launching early and being expensive.
I would rather see 3nm than 7nm to be honest. Moving from 16nm to 3nm would be a huge jump and well worth the advancement by that point.
The PC at this rate is too expensive to even entertain right now. Even the wealthy don't stay wealthy by wasting money.
I just don't want to see Sony make some silly mistakes by launching early and being expensive.
SemmiAccurate is Down this morning... More and more news Sites reporting on the matter over there.
Hope that something leaks in the next hours.
Edit: Nevermind... theres already a new thread on the Topic.
Didnt even get a shout out for providing the news.
https://www.resetera.com/threads/se...scription-to-read-summary-in-op.33810/page-19
Hope that something leaks in the next hours.
Edit: Nevermind... theres already a new thread on the Topic.
Didnt even get a shout out for providing the news.
https://www.resetera.com/threads/se...scription-to-read-summary-in-op.33810/page-19
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I'm not saying that...I'm in fact saying that if the next PS5 and XB2 will differ of + or - 30% the gulf can't be compared with the difference between the same + or - 30% of the xb1 and PS4 ...acting like ..."oh is the same difference all over again"
That's math and not brand loyalty as u wanna make it appear
3nm is expected in 2022/23
It makes sense to wait until possibly the last node shrink and would be better from a customer POV.Also waiting for 3nm would be a better generational leap and last longer.
But console manufacturers may want to release 2019/20 with 7nm and do another mid gen refresh at 3nm.
Man, this is such garbage. I don't want to bring in the old country crap into this but you were banned for a good reason, Kayle.
I don't think that saying that on software side sony (os) is being less than agile is a mistake really..like is not a mistake saying that Ms is lacking dangerously on first party side.....why have to be correct to say one..shitting on ms studio capabilities and not the other kyoufu? It's really evident the advantage both company have and their respective strenghts ...you think that Sony can be compared with Ms on that side?..what Sony did of meaningful this 5 years...a part from stability patches...folders?
And just to let you know ..I been banned before the reveal admitting that the new Kinect had (and still hav3) better tech behind it than the PS4 camera
Basically a true fact...never get unbanned and none of the mods said "sorry you was right " but that was sonygaf...here the things are differents...let's forget that ridiculous place one time for all
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I mean, what you said is so false that I don't think it's even worth acknowledging but I'll do it anyway. You say they haven't improved the OS in any meaningful capacity since 2013 (launch). Do I even need to correct that? Off the top of my head they've added plenty of features such as Share Play, Suspend/Resume, improvements to streaming (higher quality and frame rates), controller Accessibility feature. USB HDD support, Folders, Events/Community, Supersampling and others. On top of that, the UI is simple and runs pretty snappy enough. This is something Microsoft has struggled with since launch, going through multiple UI revisions, redesigns, and more. Saying PS4's OS is clunkier and slower than Xbox One's is purely revisionist history. The reason why Microsoft ended up going with monthly updates is because they had a lot to fix in the first place. I like that Microsoft are doing the monthly updates though.
Saying MS's strength is their software because they're a software company is all well and good and something I won't dispute but you can't use that to make something else up.
this was a PS5 only thread .last week all of a sudden the title changed to PS5 and XBX2
I had read somewhere it was going to be around 2020/2021. Don't ask me where I read it because I don't remember.
Remember which system had built-in sharing and streaming options, remote play, and play as you download available at launch, and which had to implement them later on. Hell, remote play took over four years to arrive to XBO. Not to mention, that the PS4 still has quicker install times, something which they greatly improved on from the PS3. That's one of the reason for why the other party had to roll out constant updates, because they were behind from the get-go. It goes both ways though, as it was with systemwide supersampling.
In math, 30% is the same as 30%. But you're saying here that 30% =/= 30%... so what you're saying isn't maths at all... it's your own ill conceived faux-logic that has been pointed out as incorrect by many posters.
I would stop digging yourself into a deeper hole. The position you're trying to argue is untenable.
PS5 and Xbx2 will be 7nm
PS5 pro and XBX2X will be 3nm
no point in waiting .
7nm is here beginning of 2019 .
I respect what you're saying and am aware of that. However, the fidelity provided by the mid gen upgrades is what I was expecting at the beginning of the gen. What we got were ultimately weak consoles to start off the gen which were then spec bumped mid gen to not age as poorly.
I bought a XB1 and it was severely underwhelming and I went back to PC gaming. The XB1-X gave me a much better experience (coupled with OLED TV) which brought me back to the console.
For me to jump into the next gen I want to see a XB360 > X1X level of a jump.
Difference between PS4 to PS4 pro is ~2.4 TF. If the PS5 is 8TF the difference would be 3.8 TF, why are we getting into multipliers?
Why do we need these other consoles exactly? PS5 Pro and Xbox 2X? Just get the specs right the first time and we won't need anything else.
Besides, we have 4K now, 8K can wait.
I agree, there's no real need for a PS5 Pro since the base specs should be more than enough for 4K and VR, but if Sony were serious about wanting to keep consumers who would look towards PC for a power upgrade then it'll be something they do again a few years later.
No.
You saying the PS4 is the same in 2018 as in 2013 is obvious BS and trollish behavior.
PS4 OS runs on one core, with some shared resources [for OS apps] running on 2nd core.
Similar will happen on PS5. os will get only a small part of overall resources, and rest will be dedicated to games.
Very odd that the title was changed to includ XBX2 because I personally have no interest in the XBX2 and also, why can't people discuss Sony's console alone as a topic? Weird.
Of course theres a point in waiting if it means more power with a similar power draw.
I don't think he is saying that there are no changes, I think that he is saying that the changes are vast and deeper and honestly that makes sense. Microsoft is a software company that builds Operating Systems, so their enhancements are deeper. However, disk install speeds are slower so there is that downside. Which should have been fixed a long time ago to be honest.
The good news for both is that they should be able to reuse what they had for this generation for next generation. Microsoft is even using Virtual Machines in their console for both the OS/Apps and games, so that makes it even nicer if they decide to go another way.
One thing that I think an opportunity was missed is to be able to stream your phone, tablet, and laptop directly to the screen using the console itself instead of something like "Chromecast", but this is something that I personally would like to have.
Because barely a day went by when the conversation did not turn to how Microsoft will react with a hypothetical next Xbox in response to a hypothetical PS5. The title change reflects that.
User Warned: Console warring.
I agree, i don't want to read xbox fanboy's bullshit in a topic dedicated to next-gen playstation.
The prediction I was referring to had 8 physical cores. About Zen mobile variants, I am not aware that the footprint is drastically different compared to the desktop variants. To my knowledge the reduction in TDP in the mobile variants is achieved by much lower frequencies and a more aggressive power management.
A Jag 4 core complex including caches is around 26mm^2 at 28nm.
A Zen 4 core complex (CCX) including caches is around 44mm^2 at 14nm.
You can do the math. On the same node process a Zen based 4 core CPU module is more than 3 times as big as a 4 core Jag CPU module. Which makes 4 cores Zen still around 1.6 times larger than 8 cores Jag on the same node process.
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