HStallion

Member
Oct 25, 2017
65,100
This is awful and a such a shame.

I believe the idea of a rainbow coloured cape was brought up previously on the Official Discord channel and at that point they were banning people who disagreed using the awful "keep my game non-political stance" . I wondered what changed.

I actually thought they were handling the shitty people on the discord early on but perhaps with the huge influx of people more mods were brought in and some chuds were among that bunch. Or it just never got a spotlight. Hopefully Sony and Arrowhead crackdown on this before it permanently fucks with the games image.
 

Solid Shake

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,289
Look, they talked to like 60 people, of which a subset are fucking idiots who take satire as reality.
Every game has a subsection of complete morons and hateful people. There are millions playing. Those people should rightfully be shunned. Feels like fear mongering.

"SOMETHING ABOUT HELLDIVERS 2MAKES THE PEOPLE TAKING IT TOO SERIOUSLY A VERY BIG PROBLEM"
Is it really something special about helldivers? I am doubtful. Is it just there are a portion of the population who are asshats? Seems more likely.

Yeah this is what I'm feeling as well. There's going to be assholes everywhere and the article really is clickbait as you could say this about literally any game.

I've played almost 100 hours and haven't run in to anybody being hateful or really even roleplaying besides joking around occasionally about spreading democracy. Just about everyone's been super chill and friendly.

This seems more like a Discord problem rather than a Helldivers problem, as no matter what, in just about any community you go to, there's going to be bigots being ignorant in every single one of them.
 
Jun 5, 2023
3,256
not really interested in anyone's opinion who considers a game's official discord being ran by losers fine and normal

there should be zero pushback for shining lights on bad parts of communities regardless with how "normal" you think it is


maybe they should, i don't know, fix the discord? the thing this article is about?
I don't know that we needed an article to hear about a social media channel that needs cleaning up. Hire some mods/fire the old ones. Helldivers is popular right now so this story with little meat to it gets traction where it probably wouldn't otherwise.

And this is not about minimizing people being treated unfairly. You could choose any game with an online community, do research and find similar issues. Helldivers' "satire" is not causing this or making it worse. That's my issue, this is a run of the mill story trying to use the popularity of a new game to get views.

Maybe some actual journalism or an a point that hasn't been covered before might make for a stronger and more interesting article.
 

TetraGenesis

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,191
Anecdotal and only tangentially related, but I was watching a random Helldivers 2 YouTube video on, like, the best primary weapons or something when halfway through, out of nowhere, the YouTuber makes some dig at Anita Sarkeesian being the worst thing to happen to gaming. I stopped watching instantly, unliked the video, removed from watch history, "don't recommend channel", etc. (I shudder to think what my algorithm was cooking up in my recommends before all that.)

I know we're in the midst of a burgeoning GamerGate 2.0 (well, more like 1.5) so I shouldn't be surprised, but it's just so pathetic that right wing misogynist creeps are out there building YouTube careers off this blatantly antifascist game by embracing its satirical symbols as genuine and using their channels to peddle the same tired decade-old talking points. Like, imagine being so lost in the sauce that you can't make a single unrelated game tutorial video without proudly broadcasting a pro-GG non-sequitur.
 

Tygre

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,921
Chesire, UK
Love how our existence is a subject they need to decide on and that ultimately the decision boils down to 'both sides are bad actually so please stop talking about it entirely'.

UIPyn8NQ_o.jpeg

nJyn27Nd_o.jpeg


The pins:
Lxiofd77_o.jpeg

G0C5dKIP_o.jpeg

This should be a way bigger focus of the story. Holy fucking shit.

Who cares about some nerds carping about Avalon Creek or whatever. Arrowhead are out here both-sides-ing whether Trans people have a right to exist.
 

-Peabody-

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,666
If hearing about this sort of thing bothers you enough that you need to come in here with anecdotal experiences just to say that it's not a real issue, maybe you could just not post? Go play Helldivers instead, or do anything else really!

It's very weird how a game with this much political satire is considered less political by gamer chuds than like, adding a pride flag icon…
 

construct

Saw the truth behind the copied door
Member
Jun 5, 2020
9,196
𖦹
I don't know that we needed an article to hear about a social media channel that needs cleaning up. Hire some mods/fire the old ones. Helldivers is popular right now so this story with little meat to it gets traction where it probably wouldn't otherwise.

And this is not about minimizing people being treated unfairly. You could choose any game with an online community, do research and find similar issues. Helldivers' "satire" is not causing this or making it worse. That's my issue, this is a run of the mill story trying to use the popularity of a new game to get views.

Maybe some actual journalism or an a point that hasn't been covered before might make for a stronger and more interesting article.
we need more articles about it actually
 

Dreavus

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Jan 12, 2018
1,884
That's too bad. I see good RP in games like DRG where people pretend they are dwarves working for the big bad company, basically just following the premise of the game, but it's all in good fun. Heck I think over the years the devs have softened mission control's character a little to have a "soft spot" for the miners especially in some of his new voice lines.

Haven't played Helldivers yet but I can see having fun with the theme against the big bad bugs and just how ridiculous "super earth" is. But of course some people will take it too far. No excuse for the mod behaviour either.
 

TheGummyBear

Member
Jan 6, 2018
9,774
United Kingdom
I know we're in the midst of a burgeoning GamerGate 2.0 (well, more like 1.5) so I shouldn't be surprised, but it's just so pathetic that right wing misogynist creeps are out there building YouTube careers off this blatantly antifascist game by embracing its satirical symbols as genuine and using their channels to peddle the same tired decade-old talking points. Like, imagine being so lost in the sauce that you can't make a single unrelated game tutorial video without proudly broadcasting a pro-GG non-sequitur.

That's because right wingers are completely media illiterate. It's one of the reasons why satirising fascism is incredibly difficult. When the people you're satirising have no ability to read the text, let alone the subtext, they will inevitably end up taking it as an endorsement and latching on to it.

Here in the UK, UKIP (one of our far right political parties) literally spent an election campaigning using the slogans "I'm doing my part," and "Service guarantees citizenship." Very overtly fascistic slogans, written for Starship Troopers with the intent to satirise the ugliness of a fascist society, being deployed completely unironically by people who agree with what fascism entails.
 

scatrapper

Banned
Nov 25, 2021
265
i really enjoy shooting random things at random ass planets and i wish i was even remotely interested in it's 'overarching story'. I have to read that shit in gaming outlets, but i couldn't care less about which planet loses what where.
 

L Thammy

Spacenoid
Member
Oct 25, 2017
51,731
This should be a way bigger focus of the story. Holy fucking shit.

Who cares about some nerds carping about Avalon Creek or whatever. Arrowhead are out here both-sides-ing whether Trans people have a right to exist.
Transphobia in the community is a significant part of the article - it's connecting the two in that some of the people roleplaying fascists are actually just fascists.

Players have found other ways to combat the hate. The "Super Earth says Trans Rights" Discord server, a queer-led group with 70 current members, is one of several subcommunities that sprawled outward from the official Helldivers 2 server. The channel #bigot-watching collects hundreds of messages and interactions where users in official Helldivers 2 channels (such as the Helldivers official Discord) had insulted members of the Discord using slurs and threatened them via DMs. In screenshots shared with Polygon, these users had explicitly used Nazi speech to primarily target trans and furry folks, as well as using images of related paraphernalia (such as SS uniforms) in their profile pictures. (Developer Arrowhead did not respond to Polygon's request for comment about any of these issues in time for publication.)


"The problem here isn't actually the bigots, those are an unfortunate fact of life that can never be fully eradicated," user Bapanada said over Discord. "The problem is that Arrowhead's official spaces [...] have made the deliberate decision to silence LGBTQ+ voices under the guise of banning any 'political' discussion, as if people's identities are political, and as if this game was not created and marketed as a heavy-handed piece of political satire."


When Wendy Wilson joined the official Discord, she asked if it'd be possible to have pride flag capes added to Helldivers 2. She told Polygon she's since been receiving messages telling her to "keep your shit out of our game," followed by slurs and harassment after she changed her profile picture to the trans flag in protest. After posting a long message in the official Helldivers 2 Discord detailing the events and asking for proper moderation, she was timed out for 24 hours, her message was deleted, and another swarm of people DMed her. "Disallowing discussion only causes lgbt members of the community to hide, while the bigots get to remain," read an excerpt from the deleted message.


Encounters like this have extended to the game itself. This past weekend, user mechanizedContortion was team killed and kicked from a public lobby after somebody in the squad saw the trans flag in her Steam profile picture. "When I joined I saw him go AFK for a bit, and when he came back he had typed in the chat along the lines of 'get out of my game freak' and then killed me," she said. "He told me after I asked [why he said that] and he said he looked at my Steam profile and that he doesn't like 'your kind of people'. He kicked me after that. It was fucking surreal."

Issues that extend to the community as a whole, however, seem to grow more unwieldy by the day. "The thing about this game is that on the surface, it looks like a game for chuds," user Rayni said over Discord. "Media illiterate boogaloo boys will take the advertising at face value not realizing they're the ones being parodied, like people who unironically think Homelander is the hero of The Boys."

A 21-year-old user, who asked for anonymity, said over email that because tools like the website and API Helldivers.io are exposing the raw data behind the curtain, it's led to a more meta take on the war. According to this player, details such as liberation rates for each planet have been used to spread hate at others for "not playing the game right," which has included death threats. The user has since created a separate "brigade," acting as one of the several subcommunities meant to be a safe and open space for queer folks.

"I care so much for Helldivers 2, and the community I've found," they said, "and I'd hate to see this game become known for its toxicity not being addressed."
 

LincolnTunnel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
510
New Jersey
Reading the article and seeing the screenshots from the discord mods, it really disappoints me how dismissive so many people in this thread are about the whole thing.

Like the mods on the officially endorsed discord are showing blatant transphobia under the guide of both sidsing the issue. How is this acceptable?

It makes me sad that all it takes is an "Oh, it's on Polygon" for people to completely disregard an issue.
 
Nov 8, 2018
9,583
Why are people being dismissive of the official discord enabling bigotry?

Because the gaming side of Era are full of trash people who don't care about others so long as THEY'RE having fun, because they aren't in an intersectional minority that it affects. They see LGBTQIA people, especially Trans people as a political theory rather than human beings and so chalk it up to "banter".

1710746457623.jpg

This is about 2/3rds of Gaming Era from my experience.
 
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Scherzo

Member
Nov 27, 2017
1,122
Because the gaming side of Era are full of trash people who don't care about others so long as THEY'RE having fun, because they aren't in an intersectional minority that it affects. They see LGBTQIA people, especially Trans people as a political theory rather than human beings and so chalk it up to "banter".

1710746457623.jpg


I'm curious has the discord moderation staff said anything officially about toxicity and bigotry in the community? I think it's a big problem especially because if it's not rooted out, self-conscious fascists will cement themselves in the community and begin actively recruiting.
 
Nov 8, 2018
9,583
I'm curious has the discord moderation staff said anything officially about toxicity and bigotry in the community? I think it's a big problem especially because if it's not rooted out, self-conscious fascists will cement themselves in the community and begin actively recruiting.

It's too late. When you get people like jalal's mane defending facists by just dismissing the LGBTQIA community as "whiney babies" there's no longer any hope for the community. You'd hope the creators and the mod sraff actually understood that a film like Starship Troopers was a satire on colonialism and fascism but part of me believes the creators may not be on the side of the oppressed.

This article talks about some chilling behaviour.

www.thepinknews.com

LGBTQ+ Helldivers 2 players complain of rampant and 'surreal' in-game toxicity

Satirical alien bug shoot-em-up Helldivers 2 is a smash hit, but some LGBTQ+ players aren't very impressed with the "toxic" in-game vibe.

I also have every right to be worried as when I uploaded a YouTube clip to era I got messages on the comments saying stuff like "kill yourself tr#nny" "die tr#nny" etc on YouTube. I'm thankful that I used a burner account.
 
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MarcelloF

"This guy are sick"
Member
Dec 9, 2020
8,316
Really horrid behavior by the players and Discord mods. Arrowhead really needs to stop both sidesing nd condemn this shit. There's no excuse for what is happening.

Also pretty shitty of how many people here are dismissive of the article, just because it's criticizing a shiny new game you like.

Turn off the voice chat then you whiney babies.
You can fuck right off with this bullshit.
 

Menome

"This guy are sick"
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,690
Remember that oft-told story on this site about the barowner who kicks out the single Nazi customer, because otherwise he invites his friends and suddenly you're running a Nazi bar?

Don't do any serious moderation, and suddenly you're hosting a Nazi game.
 

Turnscr3w

Member
Jan 16, 2022
6,585
Love how our existence is a subject they need to decide on and that ultimately the decision boils down to 'both sides are bad actually so please stop talking about it entirely'.

UIPyn8NQ_o.jpeg

nJyn27Nd_o.jpeg


The pins:
Lxiofd77_o.jpeg

G0C5dKIP_o.jpeg
That's a lot of words, just to say you don't care about trans people. Joke. Absolute laughing stock. They've even thought about banning the word "trans"?? Should I laugh or cry at this point??
 

Muji

Banned
Jul 27, 2021
637
User Banned (Permanently): Excusing transphobia; History of Problematic Posting Behaviour
I think dehumanizing speech about trans people should be banned. But at the same time you cant ban people for having other opinion about trans identity than you - even if their opinion is that its wrong. I know this is era and saying something like this is very politically incorrect and akin to supporting genocide and what do i know. But in a world with people with differing opinions and wildly different views of what is acceptable to have as an opinion you cant just as a person on one side of a debate, demand that people on the other side, just be completely removed from the equation. Even if it might be painful and in your worldview something completely abhorrent and leading to abhorrent things. You can compare to nazi thought all you want but the fact is that being anti trans is still a legitimate position for a huge part of the world and fighting for trans rights is not done effectively by crying out and asking people to be removed but rather contionous hard laborous discussiom leading to culture change.
 

Necromanti

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,935
I think dehumanizing speech about trans people should be banned. But at the same time you cant ban people for having other opinion about trans identity than you - even if their opinion is that its wrong.
People don't need to be entitled to a platform where they can freely disseminate such ideas, though. Many people are also racist and misogynistic. Such "opinions" are not relevant in a gaming community.
 
Nov 8, 2018
9,583
I think dehumanizing speech about trans people should be banned. But at the same time you cant ban people for having other opinion about trans identity than you - even if their opinion is that its wrong. I know this is era and saying something like this is very politically incorrect and akin to supporting genocide and what do i know. But in a world with people with differing opinions and wildly different views of what is acceptable to have as an opinion you cant just as a person on one side of a debate, demand that people on the other side, just be completely removed from the equation. Even if it might be painful and in your worldview something completely abhorrent and leading to abhorrent things. You can compare to nazi thought all you want but the fact is that being anti trans is still a legitimate position for a huge part of the world and fighting for trans rights is not done effectively by crying out and asking people to be removed but rather contionous hard laborous discussiom leading to culture change.

This liberal bullshit erks me so much. It essentially expects an oppressed group to continuously have to fight for their right to exist without a "winner" ever being declared and the discourse shut down.

This centrist discourse just enables fascist dialogue to further enter the mainstream without any push back apart from the minority who is expected to the hard work whilst cisgender white liberals and centrists just sit back and go "well you're both bad". And then when a minority or oppressed group criticise them for it they get theirs backs up and show their true colours and go "well at least the fascist isn't being mean to me"

No-one should be tolerant of intolerance.

To me in real life Nazis should be punched when they open their mouths, and Nazis online should get banned for running their mouths and writing on their keyboards and that responsibility shouldn't have to fall squarely on an oppressed minority who were born different.
 
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Feb 9, 2024
697
Well... I'm finishing a job and was thinking on getting this, but not anymore, at least not until Arrowhead gets their shit straight and punishes this stuff. I read about teams kicking out players that didn't adjust to the meta, but this is beyond absurd.

But at the same time you cant ban people for having other opinion about trans identity than you - even if their opinion is that its wrong

Repeat with me:

Human

Rights

Aren't

Opinions

There's no debate about this shit. If you're an homophobe, a transphobe or a xenophobe, you don't have an opinion, you're just a shitty person with a shitty and egocentric views of the world, and in all honesty, you can take those views and run with them straight up to hell. Also, there's no two siding this.

This shit needs fixing. NOW.
 

HK-47

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,785
Anyone who has seen people mistake the Starship Troopers movie as "wow cool future full of badasses" knew this was gonna happen. Satire of fascism always goes this direction. Same with 40k.
 
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astroturfing

Member
Nov 1, 2017
6,922
Suomi Finland
can we have Antifa squads out there letting the bigots know that we think they are SHIT?

i wish there was some clan function, i'd totally join an Antifa clan and verbally fight anyone who has a problem. or i'd just maybe laugh at them because i'm way too old for that shit... lol.
 

Kyuuji

The Favonius Fox
Member
Nov 8, 2017
34,475
But at the same time you cant ban people for having other opinion about trans identity than you - even if their opinion is that its wrong.
This is a common mistake so I get it's confusing but you can, in fact, do this quite easily. The same way we ban others for having 'other opinions' on gay people and other races than white people.

Because, what exactly is this 'other opinion' on trans people that isn't dehumanising? That we're bad at baking? Or is it more that we can't be trusted with our own bodily autonomy, can't be trusted in toilets because we're an inherent threat, that trans children can't be put on the same puberty blockers used for cisgender children, or science can't be relied upon to determine our ability to have sports as a career path (from football to chess)?

the fact is that being anti trans is still a legitimate position for a huge part of the world
So is the subjugation of women. Do you want to bat for that rhetoric to be allowed in communities as well?
 
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VillX

Member
Jun 19, 2018
25
I think dehumanizing speech about trans people should be banned. But at the same time you cant ban people for having other opinion about trans identity than you - even if their opinion is that its wrong. I know this is era and saying something like this is very politically incorrect and akin to supporting genocide and what do i know. But in a world with people with differing opinions and wildly different views of what is acceptable to have as an opinion you cant just as a person on one side of a debate, demand that people on the other side, just be completely removed from the equation. Even if it might be painful and in your worldview something completely abhorrent and leading to abhorrent things. You can compare to nazi thought all you want but the fact is that being anti trans is still a legitimate position for a huge part of the world and fighting for trans rights is not done effectively by crying out and asking people to be removed but rather contionous hard laborous discussiom leading to culture change.

You absolutely can ban someone for being anti-trans. Being anti trans is nowhere near the same realm as being a "differing opinion". You can't be against someone's very existence and have that claimed as a differing opinion and it's outright dangerous to even suggest that.
Kindly, reassess this weird centrist position you have on this topic, or, respectfully, shut the fuck up and do more listening when it comes to the very real dangers facing the LGBTQ+ community. This thread has gone over it quite clearly, and there's several members of this forum who do a lot of extra work they shouldn't have to to explain why this whole situation is dreadful.

Edit: And in the time it took me to agonize over replying, several peeps have said some wonderfully articulated replies. I recommend taking what they say to heart.
 

VolleyR

Banned
Mar 17, 2024
34
I think dehumanizing speech about trans people should be banned. But at the same time you cant ban people for having other opinion about trans identity than you - even if their opinion is that its wrong. I know this is era and saying something like this is very politically incorrect and akin to supporting genocide and what do i know. But in a world with people with differing opinions and wildly different views of what is acceptable to have as an opinion you cant just as a person on one side of a debate, demand that people on the other side, just be completely removed from the equation. Even if it might be painful and in your worldview something completely abhorrent and leading to abhorrent things. You can compare to nazi thought all you want but the fact is that being anti trans is still a legitimate position for a huge part of the world and fighting for trans rights is not done effectively by crying out and asking people to be removed but rather contionous hard laborous discussiom leading to culture change.
I'm unironically of the position that any opinion that isn't pro-trans should be banned or shamed. You don't have a choice to debate on their existence as they're currently subjected to hate crimes and while having their rights restricted by politicians. You don't lose your rights from not saying your "different opinion about trans identity", but they lose their rights from expressing themselves openly in their country. The least people can do give them a space in online spaces.

Queer people were never rewarded for their politeness, instead they used to be raided and arrested in their own private quarters until the Stonewall riots happened. By the way discrimination is not a legitimate respectable position under any circumstance, it's fundamentally just bored/powerful people blaming the powerless for every societal ill in their area. That trans scapegoat can disappear and they would end up blaming a new powerless one like gay people, that is exactly how it played out in Russia. They think that queer identity "curses" them even though it is demonstrably false.
 

Markratos

Hermen Hulst's Secret Account
Banned
Feb 15, 2020
3,250
I think dehumanizing speech about trans people should be banned. But at the same time you cant ban people for having other opinion about trans identity than you - even if their opinion is that its wrong. I know this is era and saying something like this is very politically incorrect and akin to supporting genocide and what do i know. But in a world with people with differing opinions and wildly different views of what is acceptable to have as an opinion you cant just as a person on one side of a debate, demand that people on the other side, just be completely removed from the equation. Even if it might be painful and in your worldview something completely abhorrent and leading to abhorrent things. You can compare to nazi thought all you want but the fact is that being anti trans is still a legitimate position for a huge part of the world and fighting for trans rights is not done effectively by crying out and asking people to be removed but rather contionous hard laborous discussiom leading to culture change.
Being anti-trans means not respecting human rights. They do not deserve any type of compassion.
 

VolleyR

Banned
Mar 17, 2024
34
Having an opinion other than trans rights is dehumanizing hate speech.
It's worth pointing out that a lot of right wing claims about trans people (or anything for that matter) are heavily exaggerated or flat out false. Centrists should be very hesitant when listening to them. The far-right lies about minors getting SRS treatment when all of them get bottom surgery past 18.
 

Kyuuji

The Favonius Fox
Member
Nov 8, 2017
34,475
Definition of cowardice is dropping a post like that and closing the browser. The irony of saying how opinions should be challenged and dropping a take that you know will be, before dipping from the conversation because you know you have nothing to support it. Weak people.

Last game I bought was GoW: Ragnarok and the next one I will be will be the Hogwarts game!
I can't wait for this and the harry potter game.
Only thing I'm looking forward to really is the new harry potter game next year - looks amazing.
giphy.gif
 

Vonocourt

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,849
.Even if it might be painful and in your worldview something completely abhorrent and leading to abhorrent things. You can compare to nazi thought all you want but the fact is that being anti trans is still a legitimate position for a huge part of the world and fighting for trans rights is not done effectively by crying out and asking people to be removed but rather contionous hard laborous discussiom leading to culture change.
IMG-3416.jpg
 

Brot

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,417
the edge
i guess it could be a coincidence and it's just gamers being gamers
It's an easy mistake to make considering how many people in this thread tried to dismiss the premise of the thread (sometimes solely because it's a Polygon article) and ignored the shit that went down in the official Discord.

I haven't seen anything like that, but all multiplayer games have toxic people! There's nothing you can do! Time to move along, everyone!