IbizaPocholo

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,912
Ibiza
https://www.yahoo.com/news/bethesda-apos-pete-hines-fallout-160051203.html

With Starfield and The Elder Scrolls VI in mind, what are you expecting from the next generation? Do you have any insight you can share?

I am curious to see what it looks like and how it's different. I'm privy to some stuff which obviously I can't really talk about, but there is also a lot that I'm not sure on what it's going to look like. And more importantly how big a shift we can expect.

I feel like there was a shift from Xbox and PS2 to Xbox 360 and PS3 that was pretty demonstrable. Because we went from the old way to HD and the HD thing was so dramatic. It was night and day. Then you went to Xbox One and PS4 and it wasn't like 'woah'. The graphics folks that are super into it can certainly tell, but to the average consumer they were like ok it still looks good. How much of that will change, I don't know. The rest of it doesn't matter to me because I'm not drawing art or coding or designing. What really matters is what the developers think. What do they need and what are the kind of power and features they are looking for.

Do you expect development costs to continue to rise with new hardware or is the technology plateauing in that sense?

Games now are so diverse that to say the cost of all games are going up is a little too broad. To make big triple A games like Starfield is not cheap. It never was. The team sizes are certainly bigger. Hell, back on Morrowind that team was 35 people. That's not even close to the size on Fallout 76. But then you have a game like Legends which has a significantly smaller team than a lot of these other things. So it depends on what the game is and the size and the scope of it.

Check the link for more information.
 

Abriael

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Oct 27, 2017
1,605
Milano - Italy
I'm truly shocked.

Even assuming that the next gen comes in 2021 (super-worst case scenario), it's obvious that major third-parties know "some stuff."
 

Nirolak

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,660
Yeah, I mean, Jason Schreier reported that two people he talked to knew about them 6 months ago, and I assume most if not all major partners will by the end of GDC 2019.
 

Banderdash

Chicken Chaser
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Nov 16, 2017
2,638
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Remember last gen, when no one was talking about it... but you could feel the change coming?
What a contrast this generation is.
 

cw_sasuke

Member
Oct 27, 2017
27,684
One of the biggest publishers that already announced next-gen projects knows something about next-gen consoles.

Ok.
 

Weeaboom

Banned
Jan 25, 2018
262
No surprises there really.

However, I'm really interested to see how distinct the machines are outside of the expected horsepower bump. How are Sony and Microsoft going to distinguish themselves for next gen is the real question? Exciting times.
 

Metallix87

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Nov 1, 2017
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No surprises there really.

However, I'm really interested to see how distinct the machines are outside of the expected horsepower bump. How are Sony and Microsoft going to distinguish themselves for next gen is the real question? Exciting times.
More and more I expect services and first party exclusives will be the differentiators.
 

Falconbox

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Oct 27, 2017
4,600
Buffalo, NY
Then you went to Xbox One and PS4 and it wasn't like 'woah'. The graphics folks that are super into it can certainly tell, but to the average consumer they were like ok it still looks good.

I think the density and level of detail we got in things cities and foliage is the biggest change I've seen.

In the past, you might get small scatterings of density, whereas you can look at Horizon Zero Dawn or Witcher 3 and find knee-high grass everywhere. I can't wait to see how RDR2 makes use of nature.
 

Wololo

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Nov 20, 2017
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These articles are why I love the lead up to new consoles. All the spec leaks and rumors. The next two years are gonna be geat.
 

Falconbox

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Oct 27, 2017
4,600
Buffalo, NY
More and more I expect services and first party exclusives will be the differentiators.

That's kind of what Xbox has focused on a lot this generation while Sony is really lagging behind there.

Other than that, I think this generation's biggest change is the ability to share your experience with others. Built-in Mixer/Twitch streaming on PS4 and Xbox One, the Share Button on PS4 and now Switch (and Xbox Record That), and the ability to share those screenshots and clips easily on Twitter or in your activity feed has really made gaming much more social.

I wonder what next-gen will bring too, unless it's just more services and subscriptions.
 

RoninStrife

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,002
The question is, Pete Hinds, graphically, seeming as you're talking graphics, I hope your game matches other open world-esque games because we seem to have lost you guys in the PS3/360 generation. His words really make me temper my expectations of Starfield more than anything else. Even if we got 12-15TF next gen consoles, Im not sure what to think these guys will do. Graphically. I mean, seeming as he is bringing it up.
 
Nov 4, 2017
7,984
Miss Lippy's car... is green.
ColorlessBaggyErne-max-1mb.gif

Solid reference, bro. Solid.
 

Green Yoshi

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Oct 27, 2017
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I wonder if Rockstar is skipping this gen all along regarding their next GTA. An open world game in an urban area needs a lot of CPU power. So maybe it was a wise choice to develop Red Dead Redemption 2 first.
 

Deleted member 43077

User requested account closure
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May 9, 2018
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wow couldnt have guessed a large 3rd party dev making next gen games knows something about next gen systems

s/ if needed
 

Camonna Tong

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Mar 2, 2018
1,456
Makes sense to me, but I think next-gen will be more about AI, bigger and more complex worlds, and more immersive gameplay. Graphics will always be increasing, but the better and better they get I think the less we'll notice because it's usually a smaller jump.
No wat it will be that far. Even for the PS5. My guess :

- Xbox Next 2019
- PS5, 2020
The opposite makes a lot more sense from what we've heard even though I don't believe PS5 will be 2019 but 2020 just like Xbox Scarlett.
 

Dynamite Cop

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,002
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Yes, unlike us consumers, game companies are businesses that like to make money. Of course they have business relationships with hardware makers and are having discussions about upcoming hardware and their specs/capabilities.
 

ClydeBonFrog

Member
Apr 17, 2018
295
No wat it will be that far. Even for the PS5. My guess :

- Xbox Next 2019
- PS5, 2020

I disagree, I honestly figure the PS5 could potentially come out before the next Xbox. The Pro came out in 2016, and the X came out in 2017. The X has a bigger leap in power, than the Pro, so it's going to be harder to sell consumers on another box a mere two years later, especially when the big claim on your last box was how it's the most powerful console. Hell, my friends that aren't in the nitty gritty of the games industry, thought the X was the new console, so I think it's easier for Sony to release a box sooner, the Pro didn't really have that power splash.

So, possible Sony in 2019, and Microsoft in 2020, but more likely both in 2020. The only way I see Microsoft releasing sooner, is if they want to run the 360 playbook, and try to get ahead of Sony to build up an install base.
 

Lucreto

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,918
Sony 2019
Microsoft 2020

If not next year their will be incredible boring conferences next year.

Starfield probably won't see a release until after the next generation gets established so it will be 2021.
 

Camonna Tong

Member
Mar 2, 2018
1,456
Morrowind was 35 people? God damn.
It also used a lot of assets that they didn't make (you'd be surprised how much of it was). Which also is the reason they don't allow for assets to used between games as some aren't theirs (They had an issue with mods like Morroblivion because of this). You may wonder why they don't list them, but for them it's much easier, especially legally, to just say everything is off limits. I'm sure that once the studio gets big enough where they don't have to worry about this that will change (besides sounds and voices as sounds are borrowed commonly everywhere, and voices are typically only contracted out only for the individual game), but right now I am unsure if it will. Each game has had less and less of those assets though. An example of one in Skyrim was the stone fences. Though I forget which site sold those.

Morrowind with assets they made would have taken a lot more people and a lot more dev time.
 

Sphinx

Member
Nov 29, 2017
2,403
3rd parties need to be in the know at least 2 years in advance, very close partners probably much earlier.

if I were Square Enix thinking about Final Fantasy 16, the first thing I'd do is go and demand from sony to spill the beans (privately, to me) about PS5.
 

Arkaign

Member
Nov 25, 2017
1,991
Makes sense to me, but I think next-gen will be more about AI, bigger and more complex worlds, and more immersive gameplay. Graphics will always be increasing, but the better and better they get I think the less we'll notice because it's usually a smaller jump.

The opposite makes a lot more sense from what we've heard even though I don't believe PS5 will be 2019 but 2020 just like Xbox Scarlett.

This is an important observation. I actually think Gen8 and Jaguar caught some devs overestimating the power of the PS4/X1 due to dev kits using x86, but more powerful CPUs than the final products. This looks to have hit notably in titles like Assassin's Creed Unity, where they shot for more AI/population, but it was a rough transition getting it down to Jag levels.

This description of the base PS4 dev kit indicates an AMD A10, which features CPU cores *far* stronger than Jag cores, and almost certainly wasn't set at 1.6Ghz either

:

https://www.vg247.com/2012/11/01/ps4_details_playstation_4/

Other indications that devs were caught by surprise with Jag performance even extended to Turn 10 and Forza 5. Early versions shown at trade shows and talk shows like Fallon showed a much more complex environment, and people discovered that the demos were actually running on Intel Core i7 systems with GTX 780 (or Titan, can't remember exactly). Final build of course had the hilarious downgrade to cardboard spectators, used to hilarity in various memes.

IF Ryzen+ variants are used in 8C/16T ~3Ghz range, the increase in CPU person will be absolutely staggering. The Jaguar was born as an ultra-low-power alternative to things like Intel Atom, for use in netbook/nettop basic computing areas. The IPC of a Jag core is less than 2006 Intel Conroe / C2D, which on launch was almost exactly 2x as fast per core as P4 Northwood. (Eg; 3.2Ghz Pentium 4 = 1.6Ghz Conroe core, or 3.2Ghz Pentium D = Core 2 Duo @ 1.6Ghz).

Following this math, you can see that by the time of Haswell, close to another doubling of IPC had been achieved, meaning a 1.6Ghz i3 4xxxU was as fast as a 3.2Ghz C2D. Where does Jaguar fit in here? In Quad core variant, it's slower than 2006 Q6600 per clock per core. Accepting minor scaling issues and doubling to account for 8 cores and multiplying down to account for 2.2ghz (nice middle ground between console Jag clocks), it ends up being about equal to a Pentium G3220 in something like Cinebench or H.265. Yes, an 8 core slower than a budget dual core.

Now Ryzen? It's about on par with the latest Intel stuff that blows G3220 to bits. An 8C/16T is more grunt than an Intel 6C/12T like my 8086k. Core for core a Zen2 with HT and full cache would be about 250% of that G3220, for a total of an 1000% speed increase in performance over something that already is 4x faster PER CORE than Jag.

And that's the biggest deal : many game logic and engine functions just do not scale well across cores. You end up with one or two cores doing the heavy lifting, while the rest run light errands and sit mostly idle. Not to mention that 8 little Jag cores with a tiny cache would starve a bit even with extremely balanced code. 8 Core Jag has 4MB cache, half of which is divided for 4 Cores maximum access (2MB practical limit for many scenarios). 8 Core Zen has 20MB Cache, all of which is much faster than Jag cache, and all of which is fully available for all cores/purposes.

Who knows what the eventual cut will be for console APUs in PS5/Scarlett, but from my perspective it's looking really really damn good. :)
 

Deleted member 35598

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That would be either a 500+ console or a joke upgrade of Xbox One X.
or a streaming device but it would be too soon

I think they have un launch "Xbox One All Access". I expect a console around 500 or even 600 $. But with the plan, it will be affordable. And the Streaming device will be cheap, I'll be surprise if it's above 150$. So enough options for everydody :

1. you have no money : Streaming Device

2. you have no money, but you want a strong console : The Xbox One All Access Plan

3. You have the money : I can pay 600$ straight up bro.
 

unicornKnight

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Oct 27, 2017
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I think they have un launch "Xbox One All Access". I expect a console around 500 or even 600 $. But with the plan, it will be affordable. And the Streaming device will be cheap, I'll be surprise if it's above 150$. So enough options for everydody :

1. you have no money : Streaming Device

2. you have no money, but you want a strong console : The Xbox One All Access Plan

3. You have the money : I can pay 600$ straight up bro.
Maybe but more importantly they have to prepare a strong first party line up for the next console with a well thought plan of frequent subsequent releases.
 

VX1

Member
Oct 28, 2017
7,098
Europe
I think they have un launch "Xbox One All Access". I expect a console around 500 or even 600 $. But with the plan, it will be affordable. And the Streaming device will be cheap, I'll be surprise if it's above 150$. So enough options for everydody :

1. you have no money : Streaming Device

2. you have no money, but you want a strong console : The Xbox One All Access Plan

3. You have the money : I can pay 600$ straight up bro.

If you have no money,you can not afford to pay for another Xbox subscription either.

I am sceptical about the success of that streaming device/service.
 

Deleted member 35598

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If you have no money,you can not afford to pay for another Xbox subscription either.

I am sceptical about the success of that streaming device/service.

It's not another subscription, with Xbox All Access, everything is included : the console, Xbox Live and Gamepass.

I mean 35$/month is a pretty good deal. I pay more for TV and my mobile subscriptions.
 

Henrik

Member
Jan 3, 2018
1,607
No wat it will be that far. Even for the PS5. My guess :

- Xbox Next 2019
- PS5, 2020
I highly doubt that. Next Xbox is 2020 going from what the current first party studios are working on.

Studio acquisitions just happened this year so those studios are years off with team building and project.
 

D4rth Man7iz

Member
Mar 30, 2018
638
So I imagine new consoles will arrive around late 2020 or early 2021. Next year seems too soon in terms of AAA exclusive games ready for launch.
 

oni-link

tag reference no one gets
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Oct 25, 2017
16,719
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So I imagine new consoles will arrive around late 2020 or early 2021. Next year seems too soon in terms of AAA exclusive games ready for launch.

We're going to get 2/3 years of cross gen games so I don't think it will matter too much if there are no 'next gen only' games ready for launch

Launch titles tend to be pretty meh anyway, in fact the whole of 2013 was pretty dire if you only count games that game out on PS4/XB1 and not also on 360/PS3