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Deleted member 8408

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
6,648
So if I buy Yoshi's Island, is Yoshi's Island's sales success something that you would find right of me to attribute to me as well, saying "We did really great on Yoshi's Island"? If someone is actually official member of a team, I can see grounds for a "we", even if it is stretching it. If someone is merely a fan, then there is no proper basis for a "we" however.

Being a fan in a lot of cases makes you a member of the club. When you are a member of a club you are affiliated in such a way that saying things like "we" and "us" are completely normal.

Videogames companies are not clubs, they are corporate entities. So unless you own or are a part of said corporate entity saying things like "we" is horribly misguided. It's an important distinction to make.
 

Rmagnus

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,923
I constantly get into petty arguments with some family members (football/soccer fans) over this.
This is in large part my own fault.

They aren't on the team or work for the team in any other way.
There is no "we/us", they are a fan of a sports team.

Then the argument "without us cheering they wouldn't win!" comes up.
Like a sane person I ask if the losses are because the fans didn't cheer enough then, and they get cranky and say it doesn't work like that.

Also weird how they try to compare it to me and my favorite bands.
When a band releases an album or plays a great gig I never talk about them in the "we" form.

I agree that's why home and away makes no difference to the out come of a match just ask Roma or city
 
Feb 16, 2018
2,685
i only tolerate this when there's a national team (eg. the olympics) or maybe a school/regional team since you can claim that those teams represent a group you are part of

fortunately the insanity has been contained to sports. i don't hear apple fans or nintendo fans or esports fans or movie fans or car manufacturer fans use "we"
 

Amnixia

▲ Legend ▲
The Fallen
Jan 25, 2018
10,424
Being a fan in a lot of cases makes you a member of the club. When you are a member of a club you are affiliated in such a way that saying things like "we" and "us" are completely normal.

Videogames companies are not clubs, they are corporate entities. So unless you own or are a part of said corporate entity saying things like "we" is horribly misguided. It's an important distinction to make.

Mate, these teams are corporate entities who care about one thing: making profit.

Sure, some of the players do genuinely love their fans (like some game designers) but to the suits you're just a walking wallet they can sling tickets & merchandise to.

We doesn't work in either case.
 
Oct 29, 2017
4,057
Then explain the logics behind that to me, that goes beyond "I would like to attribute other people's achivements, in part, to myself to feel better".
'To make myself feel better.'

Jesus Christ dude, I get that you don't like that people say it by why would you be such a dick about it?

Even if that was the case, why would you be a dick about it? Like, God forbid people have something in their lives that makes them feel good. Especially something that harms nobody.
 

Deleted member 862

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,646
If you ever cared about anything more than whatever bland corporate shit Disney told you to care about you'd understand what it feels like to be part of a shared experience. Fans are the one constant with any club so of course they'd feel like part of it.
 

Rmagnus

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,923
i only tolerate this when there's a national team (eg. the olympics) or maybe a school/regional team since you can claim that those teams represent a group you are part of

fortunately the insanity has been contained to sports. i don't hear apple fans or nintendo fans or esports fans or movie fans or car manufacturer fans use "we"

Lol national team makes even less sense to me. So I actively dislike players from other clubs yet just cause they join up for the national team I should forget everything and support them?
 

Markitron

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
12,510
Ireland
The way the rest of the world works for sports, is how college sports work in the US. It is essentially impossible for a team to switch schools. That basically makes no sense. The school is the team.

To make pro sports in America make sense to you, teams operate the way individual players operate in football.
OK, that makes sense. Must make supporting a team a risky move, what happens to all the fans when the team moves? Do they stick by them?
 

Deleted member 8408

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
6,648
Mate, these teams are corporate entities who care about one thing: making profit.

Sure, some of the players do genuinely love their fans (like some game designers) but to the suits you're just a walking wallet they can sling tickets & merchandise to.

We doesn't work in either case.

Unfortunately I think some of you are too entrenched in videogames to see the bigger picture...

I can't explain it any more than I already have. If you can't see or understand the distinction then you never will.
 

Deleted member 12790

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
24,537
Then explain the logics behind that to me, that goes beyond "I would like to attribute other people's achivements, in part, to myself to feel better".

I'll answer this post, when you explain the logistics of your continued arguing in this thread beyond "I like to belittle widely held social quirks to make myself feel superior to large groups of people"
 

Burgess_101

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,280
People are misguided if they honestly think that people attribute the direct action on the pitch to their own doing. That is never the case, it's about fans doing their bit in the grand scheme of things.

We are part of the entity that is a sports team, without fans, staff wouldn't be paid and there would be no team.
 

ElyrionX

Member
Jan 3, 2018
270
I do it all the time, in writing and when speaking.

When you have supported a team for more than 25 years, that team becomes a part of your identity and it is not unusual at all to consider yourself a part of the team since professional sports teams ultimately live or die on the support of their fans.
 

Deleted member 12790

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
24,537
OK, that makes sense. Must make supporting a team a risky move, what happens to all the fans when the team moves? Do they stick by them?

Sometimes. Most of the time they despise the team that moved. Sometimes the teams move back, and it's kind of awkward. Sometimes the cities that got left get news teams, and those usually form rivalries.

Most teams in pro sports, it should be noted, don't move. And if they did, it was usually long ago and usually not many times.

Also, it's usually the lesser popular or successful teams which move, although that definitely isn't always true (example, the Indianapolis Colts used to be the Baltimore Colts).

Actually, this lack of history is a huge part of why I don't follow the NFL. I didn't have a team growing up, my citie's team moved to Tennessee years ago, and when Houston got another team, I didn't feel any connection to them. Contrast the Rockets and Astros who have been in Houston for decades. I follow college sports way more (football, baseball, basketball) because pageantry and history are way more a part of college sports than they are pro sports (and college sports teams are usually a hundred+ years old, where pro sports teams might be 50-60 years or so). Like, they really don't chant or sing songs very much in pro sports, where unique, cultural chants and songs are a huge part of college sports.
 

MarkMcLovin

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
670
"We bought that player for X million"
"We made some silly decisions in that match"
"We will beat that team no bother"

Does anybody else get irrationally annoyed by this? It's really harmless and not a big deal but I just hate it. "we we we" is all I hear when listening to a group discuss it.

You are not in the team. You didn't do anything. You didn't sign up, you don't pay anything to "be a member of the club", you have no input.

And it only happens in sports for some reason.

What a weird thing to hate on.

People say we, because they are a part of the bigger collective. They have been a supporter of a team for years, maybe all their life and so are a part of the team as a supporter. A team without support is fuck all.

They're not in the team. They HAVE done something. They HAVE signed up and DO pay something and they DO have input.
 

Yoshi

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,055
Germany
Being a fan in a lot of cases makes you a member of the club. When you are a member of a club you are affiliated in such a way that saying things like "we" and "us" are completely normal.

Videogames companies are not clubs, they are corporate entities. So unless you own or are a part of said corporate entity saying things like "we" is horribly misguided. It's an important distinction to make.
One of the most popular football teams in Germany is the BVB, a publically traded stock company. How much more corporate entity can an entity be?
I did. See the rest of my post
Was that there before already? It is new to me. But yes, it is an explanation, one, however, that I think is strange as the same logics applied to someone who likes e.g. Mario (or any other video game thing) as much as you do the sports team (or franchise, because you would probably not change allegiencies if all people working at the team would mass exodus to another one?) would lead to heavy side eyes even in a very enthusiast forum (and, semantically, I maintain it is not correct).
 

adrem007

Banned
Nov 26, 2017
2,679
Not really. Just trying to enjoy a sunday lunch outdoors on a sunny day without having to put up with a large group of twats walking down the street beating their chest loudly at an accomplishment they had zero involvement in. Pretty selfish, self-centred behaviour if you ask me.

Look who was always left out of the team during adolescence
 

Deleted member 12790

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
24,537
Not really. Just trying to enjoy a sunday lunch outdoors on a sunny day without having to put up with a large group of twats walking down the street beating their chest loudly at an accomplishment they had zero involvement in. Pretty selfish, self-centred behaviour if you ask me.

"Can you believe these self-centered pricks are interrupting MY lunch with discussions I don't care about? Shouldn't they consider that maybe I don't want them to talk about that?!"
 

Brazil

Actual Brazilian
Member
Oct 24, 2017
18,433
São Paulo, Brazil
Not really. Just trying to enjoy a sunday lunch outdoors on a sunny day without having to put up with a large group of twats walking down the street beating their chest loudly at an accomplishment they had zero involvement in. Pretty selfish, self-centred behaviour if you ask me.
If you ask me, the selfish and self-centered behavior at display here doesn't seem to be coming from these hypothetical revelers.

People are fucking miserable in this awful neoliberal hellworld. Let them be happy and celebrate once in a blue moon.
 

Yoshi

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,055
Germany
User Warned: Derailment - Stop arguing about the language of attribution
I'll answer this post, when you explain the logistics of your continued arguing in this thread beyond "I like to belittle widely held social quirks to make myself feel superior to large groups of people"
I do not feel superior to sports fans (neither to those who use this phrasing), I just have an issue with this, because I think it is unfair to attribute other people's successes to oneself. If it is purely emotionally, then this is fine, because you cannot control it, but if it is linguistically, then it is a deliberate dicision to do so. Also, I have a strong inclination towards correctness and clarity in language, so I have issues with all kinds of deliberate imprecisions.
 

TCi

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
661
I have followed and supported a sports team for like 25 years, and have never said we about their success. I say their name when talking about it, since it was their doing, not mine. I guess I am in the minority when it comes to that.

Of course I can understand why people do it. It can be a bad thing it ways, but also a positive thing. Important to not to go overboard on it, like when fans class just because they are on different teams. Adults bashing out like small children.
 

Deleted member 12790

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
24,537
I do not feel superior to sports fans (neither to those who use this phrasing), I just have an issue with this, because I think it is unfair to attribute other people's successes to oneself. If it is purely emotionally, then this is fine, because you cannot control it, but if it is linguistically, then it is a deliberate dicision to do so. Also, I have a strong inclination towards correctness and clarity in language, so I have issues with all kinds of deliberate imprecisions.

"I don't feel superior to sports fans, just that they are incorrect and unfair and illogical and I have issues with them choosing to be unlike me."

ok buddy.
 

Markitron

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
12,510
Ireland
One of the most popular football teams in Germany is the BVB, a publically traded stock company. How much more corporate entity can an entity be?
Was that there before already? It is new to me. But yes, it is an explanation, one, however, that I think is strange as the same logics applied to someone who likes e.g. Mario (or any other video game thing) as much as you do the sports team (or franchise, because you would probably not change allegiencies if all people working at the team would mass exodus to another one?) would lead to heavy side eyes even in a very enthusiast forum (and, semantically, I maintain it is not correct).
If you keep equating 100+ year old local institutions with video games, then you are never going to understand our viewpoint.

Damn haha, you guys really hurt about opposing opinions towards your precious ball games. Quaint.
You listen to Muse, we get it.
 
OP
OP
Pankratous

Pankratous

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,257
"Can you believe these self-centered pricks are interrupting MY lunch with discussions I don't care about? Shouldn't they consider that maybe I don't want them to talk about that?!"

Pretty sure he's talking about more than discussions. At least in Glasgow, post football match there is often violence and always large crowds singing loudly in the streets, vandalism, behaving aggressively, generally being disruptive to everyone else. Not to mention the litter absolutely everywhere.
 

Br3wnor

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,982
I'm kind of the opposite. When someone doesn't say "we" when discussing their team I know they're a knob and lose most interest in talking sports with them.
 

Markitron

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
12,510
Ireland
Pretty sure he's talking about more than discussions. At least in Glasgow, post football match there is often violence and always large crowds singing loudly in the streets, vandalism, behaving aggressively, generally being disruptive to everyone else. Not to mention the litter absolutely everywhere.
I thought the old firm had calmed right down in recent years?
 

AtomLung

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,642
Then explain the logics behind that to me, that goes beyond "I would like to attribute other people's achivements, in part, to myself to feel better".
Fans still say we when the team is performing terribly and there are no achievements to claim. It is just a convenient way to show a personal connection to a team.
 

Yoshi

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,055
Germany
"I don't feel superior to sports fans, just that they are incorrect and unfair and illogical and I have issues with them choosing to be unlike me."

ok buddy.
Performing one action that I deem unfair and illogical does not make them inferior beings. I perform acts that are illogical and unfair, as well, not deliberately so (because I may not see that this is the case), but I assume most sports fans do not do this with bad intentions either. It would be preposterous to to infer superiority over a group of people for doing one illogical or unfair thing one does not do oneself.

I also have no issues with them being unlike me.

If you keep equating 100+ year old local institutions with video games, then you are never going to understand our viewpoint.
There are so many things in regard to this
- There are also young clubs, as recent as RB Leipzig in Germany which, as a pro team, is only a couple of years old, do fans of those have to be treated differently?
- What difference does it make whether something predates your birth by merely a couple of years or by 100 years in this context?
- In how far is attribution of success related to the age of the institution in question?
- There exist video game companies that are as old as your average football team, e.g. Nintendo is from 1889
 

Kaizer

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
2,094
It's threads like these that truly remind this site is foremost & primarily a community for gamers & geeks lol, There's nothing wrong with people showing a little team pride, let people have their fun.

Some of y'all are the same ones who'll cry tears of joy from videogame announcements during E3 - people can be passionate & have different levels of emeotional attachments to things you don't care for.
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,099
There are two things I will never understand about American sports, and this is one of them. The concept of a team changing cities is impossible to fathom in football in most of the rest of the world.

The other thing I don't get is when teams are referred to as 'franchises' by their own fans, it's so soulless.


If you genuinely think the fans play no part then I would refer you to the recent Champions League game between Liverpool and Man City. The atmosphere was insane and it got to the City players, who on paper are a much superior team.

The NA Owners just have way too much power.
 

OrangeNova

Member
Oct 30, 2017
12,656
Canada
It's threads like these that truly remind this site is foremost & primarily a community for gamers & geeks lol, There's nothing wrong with people showing a little team pride, let people have their fun.

Some of y'all are the same ones who'll cry tears of joy from videogame announcements during E3 - people can be passionate & have different levels of emeotional attachments to things you don't care for.
Just remember, the people getting upset at "we really messed up that game", are the same people that say "We really want this feature in *VIDEO GAME*."
 

Yoshi

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,055
Germany
Just remember, the people getting upset at "we really messed up that game", are the same people that say "We really want this feature in *VIDEO GAME*."
But the latter is semantically completely fine, because they are saying that they themselves, as well as potentially other fans who share their opinion, have a certain desire. You may think this desire is strange or irrelevant, but the sentence is completely fine.
 

Tambini

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,383
There are two things I will never understand about American sports, and this is one of them. The concept of a team changing cities is impossible to fathom in football in most of the rest of the world.

The other thing I don't get is when teams are referred to as 'franchises' by their own fans, it's so soulless.

Yeah I guess it's no surprise that most Americans don't seem to understand identifying with a club with that sort of set up. Franchise smh. Football clubs live and die by their fans, who pay a membership and were born into supporting their club (less so for the bigger clubs admittedly)

And yes say "we" whether its "we won the league at shite hart lane" or "we've been shit all season"
 

Deleted member 12790

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
24,537
But the latter is semantically completely fine, because they are saying that they themselves, as well as potentially other fans who share their opinion, have a certain desire. You may think this desire is strange or irrelevant, but the sentence is completely fine.

It's semantically fine when people refer to sports teams this way. Are you unfamiliar with the concept of clans?
 

Wamb0wneD

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
18,735
Not only sports, nations as well. It's dumb as fuck. You did nothing personally, stop acting like you did.
bild_wir_sind_papst_580_gross.jpg
Legendary german meme.