• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.

ViewtifulJC

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
21,020
Show of hands, who here has ever thought "Why would they give X game a lower score when they liked the last one?"

Or not even score. Got confused when it wasn't mentioned in GOTY deliberations despite liking it before. Or talked about a game in less-than-glowing terms when you thought they liked it.
Better question, who here has liked the exact same things, exactly the same way, ever since you first experienced it? Sex, pizza, your first car, your first kiss, that toaster over that only worked on one side. Love fades, old problems are looked back on with nostalgia, and our subjective view of the world is only that, subjective, and ever changing
 

More_Badass

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,622
This isn't intellectualism though, it's Pseudo-intellectualism. There is no real depths to his thoughts, it's basically saying sometimes I change my mind over time. Well no shit.
Maybe, the medium and part of its audience is so reflexive against such notions that even just discussing this notion is intellectualism and critical analysis for the level of discussion and discourse regarding the medium. I mean, this is the medium where "walking simulator" came from and where people say stuff like Journey or Gone Home aren't games or are critic bait.
 

More_Badass

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,622
People do. That's fine. I don't expect a movie, book, theater reviewer to literally put a placeholder in their own initial review saying, but I may change it soon when I read some other folks reviews!

That's silly. It doesn't affect anything other than make the reviewer not even have convictions to say whether he liked something or not (at least initially).
I don't think anyone is suggesting this?
 

Imran

Member
Oct 24, 2017
6,571
Better question, who here has liked the exact same things, exactly the same way, ever since you first experienced it? Sex, pizza, your first car, your first kiss, that toaster over that only worked on one side. Love fades, old problems are looked back on with nostalgia, and our subjective view of the world is only that, subjective, and ever changing
I don't think it's a better question just because it's the one you'd rather ask.
 

Raven117

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,112
I don't think anyone is suggesting this?
I used literally incorrectly. Apologies. Regardless, the article is completely unnecessary. I mean, no shit you can change your mind? Why did he feel compelled to write an article about it? I mean, its good clickbait. "I couldn't find anything wrong with God of War, but I might!"

Yippie, I will wait with baited breath whether this reviewer changes his mind.
 

Jaypah

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,866
Getting a real weird anti-intellectual vibe from this thread. Thinking critically about something and changing your opinion over time (especially in response to other peoples' arguments that you hadn't considered before) is not a bad thing. We could do with more reflection and introspection in the gaming community, not less.

It's an interesting topic but it wasn't going to get much traction being about GOW. If it had been, I dunno, Binary Domain or something it might have gotten a more levelheaded discussion.
 

Kurdel

Member
Nov 7, 2017
12,157
This is fantastic that we have writers willing to approach these aspects of the medium. We should welcome stuff like this

I think it's clear by now that a certain group of self identified "gamers" have a very narrow scope of their own hobby, and dislike being expected to do anything more than pre-order and play a game.

Then an even smaller portion feel the need to go on the offensive, to evangelize their apolitical and surface level apreciation of video games only.
 

M1chl

Banned
Nov 20, 2017
2,054
Czech Republic
And where exactly was that being said? Is there something inherently wrong with hiding posts from people who post on the OT side basically defending white supremacy, trashing feminism, etc etc?

I don't personally use the ignore list, but there's a big difference between a difference of opinion vs people who deserve to be deplatformed.

Well I guess that is something like saying that the mods doing a shitty job, with that I disagree. I don't think that on this forum people are vile to go as far as "White Supremacy" or being part of the...how is that shitty group called, MRA? I am mainly in this sub...ohh well this is not reddit, in this gaming section. And I feel like far better thing to do is to report that person to the mods and not ignore them. I am pretty open about discussion about anything, but let's say if you feel like something is off-limits, you should report them instead of ignore them. I want this forum to stay healthy as it is. I am really grateful to even being here.So I hope that my point of view is somewhat understandable.
 

Llazy

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,073
what happens if you block all the users on era do you just talk to yourself ?
 

mango.

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
127
fnidrTU.gif
 

ElBoxy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,128
You literally want a hug box and nothing more.
Personally there are some posts I can only take before I need to cut it off and move on. Any post that goes into extreme hyperbole, which there are A LOT, I can't even begin to start a discussion and I just pretend it was never posted.
 

OrdinaryPrime

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
11,042
Person A: Opinions change and it's not a big deal. This is so obvious that it doesn't require an article.
Person B: Opinions don't actually change, people just pretend they do for performative wokeness to appease minorities.

It's funny how both these things can't exist at the same time and yet they both find a way to shit on Waypoint. Gee I wonder why they weren't super sad about the other site going under.

Surely this post is helping the toxicity of this thread by contributing to it, right?
 

Wein Cruz

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,772
Personally there are some posts I can only take before I need to cut it off and move on. Any post that goes into extreme hyperbole, which there are A LOT, I can't even begin to start a discussion and I just pretend it was never posted.

Nothing wrong with using the ignore feature but maxing it out in under a year? That's obviously excessive.
 

Raven117

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,112
What writing do you feel is necessary?
Whatever gets clicks. Which is obviously what this piece is. I think it makes the author look a little goofy, but thats not reason not to write something.

You could say that about any thinkpiece on the internet. Why levy it against this one?
Oh, I guess you are right. It was just packaged up in a bit of a disingenuous way as to use a big popular title name, then really talk about another game, then sort of talk about the overall point. But hey, not my website.
 

Miamiwesker

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,668
Miami
I never understood this stuff, the first time you play something is most likely your most accurate representation of your feeling of the game. Yes it's a moment in time but unless you actually lied to yourself, unless you have no clue what you actually like or don't like, it's probably the genuine reaction. Afterward you may become influenced with outside opinions, maybe as time goes on the gameplay is archaic and makes it hard to go back but it does not erase what YOU felt at that moment.

In the article he is talking mostly about themes, stories and the like and practically ignores the most important part of why any game is great, the gameplay. Gameplay obviously evolves but I still feel you can appreciate games that were incredible for their time like say MGS1. I can play RE4 right now and the level and encounter design is still as impressive as it was back then. The old GoW games were edgy in their time but looking back most of the violence comes off as cringy, does that change my opinion of the game, NOPE. Why would it? I replayed 3 recently, the game is still incredible, an amazing action adventure game that balances multiple gameplay scenarios so well.

Gameplay is what makes the game, gameplay is what should be remembered. I do understand opinions can differ as time goes on but that doesn't negate the original opinion.
 

More_Badass

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,622
I used literally incorrectly. Apologies. Regardless, the article is completely unnecessary. I mean, no shit you can change your mind? Why did he feel compelled to write an article about it? I mean, its good clickbait. "I couldn't find anything wrong with God of War, but I might!"

Yippie, I will wait with baited breath whether this reviewer changes his mind.
This is a good example of why, when this kind of response is a possibility towards such a seemingly obvious and reasonable notion. Oh, he says he might change his opinion in the future, he has no backbone

....really?
 

Imran

Member
Oct 24, 2017
6,571
Whatever gets clicks. Which is obviously what this piece is. I think it makes the author look a little goofy, but thats not reason not to write something.


Oh, I guess you are right. It was just packaged up in a bit of a disingenuous way as to use a big popular title name, then really talk about another game, then sort of talk about the overall point. But hey, not my website.
Are you not going to answer seriously? You keep repeating that the piece is unnecessary and that fact bothers you. What defines necessity? Are you just going to retreat into whining victimization?
 

snausages

Member
Feb 12, 2018
10,337
Getting a real weird anti-intellectual vibe from this thread. Thinking critically about something and changing your opinion over time (especially in response to other peoples' arguments that you hadn't considered before) is not a bad thing. We could do with more reflection and introspection in the gaming community, not less.

Is it anti-intellectualism? Maybe Patrick would be better to embrace being wrong or correcting himself sometimes rather than hedging his arguments so much in advance.
 

More_Badass

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,622
I never understood this stuff, the first time you play something is most likely your most accurate representation of your feeling of the game. Yes it's a moment in time but unless you actually lied to yourself, unless you have no clue what you actually like or don't like, it's probably the genuine reaction. Afterward you may become influenced with outside opinions, maybe as time goes on the gameplay is archaic and makes it hard to go back but it does not erase what YOU felt at that moment.

In the article he is talking mostly about themes, stories and the like and practically ignores the most important part of why any game is great, the gameplay. Gameplay obviously evolves but I still feel you can appreciate games that were incredible for their time like say MGS1. I can play RE4 right now and the level and encounter design is still as impressive as it was back then. The old GoW games were edgy in their time but looking back most of the violence comes off as cringy, does that change my opinion of the game, NOPE. Why would it? I replayed 3 recently, the game is still incredible, an amazing action adventure game that balances multiple gameplay scenarios so well.

Gameplay is what makes the game, gameplay is what should be remembered. I do understand opinions can differ as time goes on but that doesn't negate the original opinion.
An opinion of a game is more than how the gameplay is. Themes and story and the like is just as important as the gameplay in what impacts a person and what makes something appeal to them
 

Khanimus

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
40,178
Greater Vancouver
Whatever gets clicks. Which is obviously what this piece is. I think it makes the author look a little goofy, but thats not reason not to write something.


Oh, I guess you are right. It was just packaged up in a bit of a disingenuous way as to use a big popular title name, then really talk about another game, then sort of talk about the overall point. But hey, not my website.
Using a prior example to frame the state of mind which you relate to a hot new thing doesn't sound particularly unheard of. Again, what is the problem?
 

Kizuna

Member
Oct 27, 2017
550
That seems pretty cowardly of him, the guy wants his cake and to eat it too.

"I bought into the hype along with my colleagues, hook, line and sinker, but if a couple years down the road the mainstream opinion in the gaming circles would be a lot less favorable than my glowing review (like Infinite), I don't want to be held responsible for the product of my work as a critic or have to stand by my words. I'd like to be able to join the new mainstream and claim that I evolved on this issue after reading other opinions, and it's totally not me giving into peer pressure."

Like, dude, you played the game. Long enough and carefully enough to write at-length about it. Gave it a score at the end too, listing what you yourself liked and disliked. Do you really need others to tell you if the game was good or not? As a gaming critic, no less?
 

More_Badass

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,622
That seems pretty cowardly of him, the guy wants his cake and to eat it too.

"I bought into the hype along with my colleagues, hook, line and sinker, but if a couple years down the road the mainstream opinion in the gaming circles would be a lot less favorable than my glowing review (like Infinite), I don't want to be held responsible for the product of my work as a critic or have to stand by my words. I'd like to be able to join the new mainstream and claim that I evolved on this issue after reading other opinions, and it's totally not me giving into peer pressure."

Like, dude, you played the game. Long enough and carefully enough to write at-length about it. Gave it a score at the end too, listing what you yourself liked and disliked. Do you really need others to tell you if the game was good or not? As a gaming critic, no less?
It's not about if the game is good or not. It's about viewing something in a different light, from another angle, with a new perspective.
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,890
I'm generally a fan of waypoint, Danielle and Austin in particular. Sometimes they can succumb to a certain level of self parody though. This is one of those times. It feels like Patrick is kinda future proofing himself from any drastic sentiment swing aganist the game. Could have done this with a tweet and it didn't need to be about GOW. He didn't afford Nier or BOTW the same disclaimer lasy year, even in the face of dissident as he mentions here. Although, I do see some salience in him watching his bias as a new father, which is interesting. Writers gotta write.
 

Khanimus

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
40,178
Greater Vancouver
I never understood this stuff, the first time you play something is most likely your most accurate representation of your feeling of the game. Yes it's a moment in time but unless you actually lied to yourself, unless you have no clue what you actually like or don't like, it's probably the genuine reaction. Afterward you may become influenced with outside opinions, maybe as time goes on the gameplay is archaic and makes it hard to go back but it does not erase what YOU felt at that moment.

In the article he is talking mostly about themes, stories and the like and practically ignores the most important part of why any game is great, the gameplay. Gameplay obviously evolves but I still feel you can appreciate games that were incredible for their time like say MGS1. I can play RE4 right now and the level and encounter design is still as impressive as it was back then. The old GoW games were edgy in their time but looking back most of the violence comes off as cringy, does that change my opinion of the game, NOPE. Why would it? I replayed 3 recently, the game is still incredible, an amazing action adventure game that balances multiple gameplay scenarios so well.

Gameplay is what makes the game, gameplay is what should be remembered. I do understand opinions can differ as time goes on but that doesn't negate the original opinion.
Gameplay is never what solely defines a game. Especially not on a scale like God of War which, by the creator's own admitted ambition, wanted to touch on fatherhood, masculinity, and more.
 

Astandahl

Member
Oct 28, 2017
9,009
How can you be over the moon after finishing BIO Infinite? It was a meh game at best already in the first hour.
 

Raven117

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,112
This is a good example of why, when this kind of response is a possibility towards such a seemingly obvious and reasonable notion. Oh, he says he might change his opinion in the future, he has no backbone

....really?
There is a timing element to this. Having been so fresh off the heels of the real review, it seems like he is hedging against his future-self. He may have missed some thing in the game that deserves criticism, he can't identify it, but wants to make sure he can come back and say he said he might change his mind! But see below.

Are you not going to answer seriously? You keep repeating that the piece is unnecessary and that fact bothers you. What defines necessity? Are you just going to retreat into whining victimization?
I was being serious.

Im not victimized, HAHA. This piece did not victimize me. Its whatever get clicks, it succeeded, in what amounts to saying, "I can change my mind." Cool post, bro. People can write whatever they want on the internet. Article was a waste of time to read for me, but it wasn't for some others. Well, alright then!
 

ElBoxy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,128
I never understood this stuff, the first time you play something is most likely your most accurate representation of your feeling of the game. Yes it's a moment in time but unless you actually lied to yourself, unless you have no clue what you actually like or don't like, it's probably the genuine reaction. Afterward you may become influenced with outside opinions, maybe as time goes on the gameplay is archaic and makes it hard to go back but it does not erase what YOU felt at that moment.

In the article he is talking mostly about themes, stories and the like and practically ignores the most important part of why any game is great, the gameplay. Gameplay obviously evolves but I still feel you can appreciate games that were incredible for their time like say MGS1. I can play RE4 right now and the level and encounter design is still as impressive as it was back then. The old GoW games were edgy in their time but looking back most of the violence comes off as cringy, does that change my opinion of the game, NOPE. Why would it? I replayed 3 recently, the game is still incredible, an amazing action adventure game that balances multiple gameplay scenarios so well.

Gameplay is what makes the game, gameplay is what should be remembered. I do understand opinions can differ as time goes on but that doesn't negate the original opinion.
It usually takes time to process how you really feel about something. Yeah, your first time is your genuine reaction but your also not thinking critically to evaluate. Your kind of just living the moment. This is why people are constantly skeptical of festival showings of movies or any early premier of a DC movie cuz your caught up in the hype and the surprise that it sometimes blinds you. It doesn't have to change your overall opinion on something. I still like Infinite. I also don't love it as much as I did when I first played it, but I still like it. The "wow" factor isn't their anymore and what I'm left with is a story that kind of sucks and a setting with lost potential. I consider that to be my final thoughts on the game years later.
 

Kinthey

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
22,274
There are like 30k users on ERA. There's no shortage of really egregious bans and such here that should indicate that there are some posters who have some really fucking shitty opinions.

Hell, acouple hours ago, some fucker goes into the thread about female objectification in character designs just to say that women were "just jealous they didn't have nice asses and tits". Is this someone who's opinions I need to humor or validate by continuing to read whatever other bullshit they contribute?
This thread isn't filled with anything as extreme as your example and yet it made him hit the limit. Is there zero faith that the mods curate discussions? Manually blocking a 1000 people is simply absurdly extreme and sounds like he'd want the board to be something it isn't.
 

Khanimus

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
40,178
Greater Vancouver
How can you be over the moon after finishing BIO Infinite? It was a meh game at best already in the first hour.
There's no shortage of glowing critical reaction to it. Plenty of people were over the moon on it.

That seems pretty cowardly of him, the guy wants his cake and to eat it too.

"I bought into the hype along with my colleagues, hook, line and sinker, but if a couple years down the road the mainstream opinion in the gaming circles would be a lot less favorable than my glowing review (like Infinite), I don't want to be held responsible for the product of my work as a critic or have to stand by my words. I'd like to be able to join the new mainstream and claim that I evolved on this issue after reading other opinions, and it's totally not me giving into peer pressure."

Like, dude, you played the game. Long enough and carefully enough to write at-length about it. Gave it a score at the end too, listing what you yourself liked and disliked. Do you really need others to tell you if the game was good or not? As a gaming critic, no less?
So he's supposed to say "I liked a thing" and never further reflect on it upon other people sharing their own perspectives on it?
 

Raven117

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,112
Using a prior example to frame the state of mind which you relate to a hot new thing doesn't sound particularly unheard of. Again, what is the problem?
No problem. There is nothing offensive about the article. Its just an article. It would not have been something I would write, but it is something this author would write (obviously). And onward we go.
 

Hailinel

Shamed a mod for a tag
Member
Oct 27, 2017
35,527
How can you be over the moon after finishing BIO Infinite? It was a meh game at best already in the first hour.
I know some people that still really enjoy it because of its gameplay. The content and themes of the story doesn't bother them in a way that would prohibit that.

Some people just like different things.
 

Astandahl

Member
Oct 28, 2017
9,009
There's no shortage of glowing critical reaction to it. Plenty of people were over the moon on it.


So he's supposed to say "I liked a thing" and never further reflect on it upon other people sharing their own perspectives on it?
I still can't believe why. Yeah the story was really interesting and the art direction was top tier but that's it. The terrible encounters design made the game a really meh experience for me. I really can't understand why everyone rated it so high.
 
Last edited:

Emergency & I

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
6,634
The thesis of the article is pretty empty. It does a great job at circling around other more interesting questions though.
 

Nikus

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
10,362
This is a good example of why, when this kind of response is a possibility towards such a seemingly obvious and reasonable notion. Oh, he says he might change his opinion in the future, he has no backbone

....really?
Yup, some of my favorite games are games that I didn't like very much the first time I played them so yeah, I understand what Klepek is saying.
And the opposite is true. If I just take the Metroid franchise, I didn't like Metroid Prime 2 when it came out and I had a good time with Other M. I played them both again last year and I think MP2 is a masterpiece and Other M a masterpiece of shit.

Also, 1000 on an ignore list? wtf... Some users can sometimes piss me off but I'd never block their voice. I'm here to be surrounded by the same people everyone else is, that's what a community is about, for better or worse. A handful blocked people, I could get my head around it, but hundreds and hundreds and hundreds... nope, I'm trying, but I don't understand. And I say this as a pretty antisocial person irl.
 

Miamiwesker

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,668
Miami
It usually takes time to process how you really feel about something. Yeah, your first time is your genuine reaction but your also not thinking critically to evaluate. Your kind of just living the moment. This is why people are constantly skeptical of festival showings of movies or any early premier of a DC movie cuz your caught up in the hype and the surprise that it sometimes blinds you. It doesn't have to change your overall opinion on something. I still like Infinite. I also don't love it as much as I did when I first played it, but I still like it. The "wow" factor isn't their anymore and what I'm left with is a story that kind of sucks and a setting with lost potential. I consider that to be my final thoughts on the game years later.

I still don't get it, I have never drastically change my mind on anything after the first time I play/see it. Hell even things like Star Wars TPM which i was totally clouded with SW hype I can still understand why I enjoyed it so much. Am I more in tune with what I like? Are people that easily influenced by outside factors?
 

Nose Master

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,717
It would be a cool idea if a major publication amended reviews 6 months / 1 year later to see if they hold up. The honeymoon period with big releases is pretty powerful. People forget this too much, and claim every solid AAA title "just may be the best game of the generation" two days after release.
 

Kurdel

Member
Nov 7, 2017
12,157
Also, 1000 on an ignore list? wtf... Some users can sometimes piss me off but I'd never block their voice. I'm here to be surrounded by the same people everyone else is, that's what a community is about, for better or worse. A handful blocked people, I could get my head around it, but hundreds and hundreds and hundreds... nope, I'm trying, but I don't understand. And I say this as a pretty antisocial person irl.

I only blocked 2 people in my time on these forums, and it was because of The Last Jedi.

I would block that guy that posted the invertebrate gif, but it is clearly an alt account going by the post count.

It would be a cool idea if a major publication amended reviews 6 months / 1 year later to see if they hold up. The honeymoon period with big releases is pretty powerful. People forget this too much, and claim every solid AAA title released "just may be the best game of the generation" two days after release.

They would probably get death threats for doing things like that, because judging by the thread, some people REALLY can't understand an evolving opinion.