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NYC Deblasio commits to opening four supervised injection sites (heroin)

TheGhost

TheGhost

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
28,137
Long Island
https://nypost.com/2018/05/03/de-blasio-commits-to-opening-four-supervised-injection-sites/

Mayor Bill de Blasio on Thursday committed to opening four supervised injection facilities where drug users can shoot up under medical supervision — putting the Big Apple at the forefront of a controversial practice that's sparked debate across the country.
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The facilities are meant to provide drug users and addicts a safe place to inject heroin in the midst of a national opioid crisis — while giving service providers a place to approach users about changing their habits.
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While this would keep needles and stuff out of parks and other public areas, I don't see how this could be productive. I'm sure it works great in other countries but this is still too weird for me. Feel free to tell me I'm wrong, it wouldn't be the first time I was, but optics wise it looks pretty dumb imo. I read too many FB posts from people in recovery and I just feel like something like this counter productive to what they are usually preaching. Again I could be wrong. I'm guessing this only works if the people are willing to go there Everytime they want to shoot up?
 
demondance

demondance

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,808
It shouldn't be about optics, it should be about saving human lives. Which this will do.

We need to get past this idea that lifesaving, good policy shouldn't even be tried because of assumed "optics". Put people first.
 
Zvonimir Boban

Zvonimir Boban

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,523
bLVfz5.gif


#BunnyWasRight
 

Wonderbrah

Banned
Nov 7, 2017
278
Rather them shoot up under supervision where medical personnel are able to administer narcan if they OD rather than alone where they could die.
 
Doom

Doom

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,812
New Jersey
TheGhost said:
https://nypost.com/2018/05/03/de-blasio-commits-to-opening-four-supervised-injection-sites/





While this would keep needles and stuff out of parks and other public areas, I don't see how this could be productive. I'm sure it works great in other countries but this is still too weird for me. Feel free to tell me I'm wrong, it wouldn't be the first time I was, but optics wise it looks pretty dumb imo. I read too many FB posts from people in recovery and I just feel like something like this counter productive to what they are usually preaching. Again I could be wrong. I'm guessing this only works if the people are willing to go there Everytime they want to shoot up?
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What they are preaching is often counter productive toward long term recovery as well.

At least, statistically, injection sites have proven to save lives and control usage spread better than anything else beyond mass imprisonment (which is the true "unethical" answer).
 
Brawly Likes to Brawl

Brawly Likes to Brawl

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,063
Ryohei Suzuki's bedroom
The previous paradigm of treating addicts like criminals instead of patients that need help needs to go away. I'm all for giving this a try if it means that addicts can enter an environment where they can more easily be swayed into the path to sobriety. Not to mention that this will help cut down on transmission of diseases through reused needles.
 
Smokeymicpot

Smokeymicpot

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,837
Makes sense. Sadly it is not happening where it should happen most which is in Staten Island. Which opioids are the biggest problem here.

Hopefully this will be used as a rehab as well to try to get them off the drugs.
 
Parthenios

Parthenios

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
13,601
American Eskimo said:
How much will these junkies be paying for this expensive service?
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Your use of the word "junkies" means that you may not be arguing in good faith, but in case you are:

Assuming they aren't paying their ER bills if they OD (they don't, and the hospitals eat the costs which are then passed on to paying patients and their health insurance, one of the contributors to ballooning medical costs in the country), this is cheaper than having them take a ambulance to the ER.

So we have a cheaper alternative that will save more lives than what we do now. The only downside would be a backlash from the uninformed who haven't thought this through all the way and reflexively oppose it because of decades of dogma.
 
Gentlemen

Gentlemen

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,505
Yaboosh said:
Will junkies really use a place to shoot up where they will be preached to?
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It depends on other comprehensive steps taken to stem the opioid epidemic. Safe Injection Sites are just one part of the equation. You also need: Rehab Centers that aren't prisons, access to free health care to help addicts from dying during withdrawal, access to community activities to remind drug addicts that there are other things in life that make you feel good, like exercise, art, education. Portugal took the comprehensive, centralized approach and has worked wonders. Canada took a patchwork, local approach and it hasn't seen great returns. NYC's efforts appear to mirror Canada's and it's not giving me a lot of hope because once a program is shown to be underutilized thanks to a narrow focus on overdose deaths, it will be seen as wasted money and the public will turn on it, because as so far demonstrated in this thread, there's a subset of people who don't see addiction as a disease, or addicts as anything other than subhuman "junkies."
 
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TheGhost

TheGhost

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
28,137
Long Island
I'm about to do a side job, not vanishing from thread So I will be back. But I can't help but feel the same way I felt about this years ago.

Good idea in theory but still seems like enabling.
 
BocoDragon

BocoDragon

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
5,207
My reaction to this as a Vancouverite was "old idea... this is news?"

But I guess the bent of the OP is still a little shocked at the concept so that's eye opening to me. I thought harm reduction on this issue was a clear winning idea in society, but maybe I'm in a bubble.

You can have drug users on the streets or drug users with deadly blood diseases on the streets... your call.
 
HStallion

HStallion

Member
Oct 25, 2017
62,261
TheGhost said:
I'm about to do a side job, not vanishing from thread So I will be back. But I can't help but feel the same way I felt about this years ago.

Good idea in theory but still seems like enabling.
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The whole idea of not helping addicts because you think you're enabling them seeme foolish. They're addicted whether you help them or not and to do nothing or worse, punish them is just backwards
 
Smokeymicpot

Smokeymicpot

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,837
TheGhost said:
I'm about to do a side job, not vanishing from thread So I will be back. But I can't help but feel the same way I felt about this years ago.

Good idea in theory but still seems like enabling.
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They are doing it anyway and a ton of people have died in the city from opioids. This will give people a safe place and a place where they can be able to stop.
 
TemplaerDude

TemplaerDude

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,204
The biggest problem with these in Vancouver is that they're a part of a bigger solution, it's just no one else has come up with the other parts.
 
CrocM

CrocM

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,587
Washington Heights I could see being cool with this. I'm curious about Gowanus. That place is getting gentrified fast as hell and I wonder how the Whole Foods shoppers will feel about it.
 
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TheGhost

TheGhost

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
28,137
Long Island
HStallion said:
The whole idea of not helping addicts because you think you're enabling them seeme foolish. They're addicted whether you help them or not and to do nothing or worse, punish them is just backwards
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Why not just open up more rehab centers, we need th more. They are over crowded and under staffed. Plus compared to the city, Staten Island and Long Island would benefit from these facilities (or more rehab centers) alot more than Manhattan
 
Pein

Pein

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,219
NYC
Fuck off diblasio, you won't even help the cab drivers that lives are ruined and the homeless are running rampant, before we help those people let's get injection centers.

Not even rehab centers, lets pay for the destructive process.
 
American Eskimo

American Eskimo

Banned
Jan 18, 2018
2,625
Baji Boxer said:
It will likely save money, so I don't see any economic downside.
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Is there a case study in a location that did this showing the costs versus benefits of this type of program?

I would be interested in reading up on that.

Obviously helping people in noble, but tons of people need help. We need to spend money effectively
 

Deleted member 2145

User requested account closure
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Oct 25, 2017
29,223
TheGhost said:
Why not just open up more rehab centers, we need th more. They are over crowded and under staffed. Plus compared to the city, Staten Island and Long Island would benefit from these facilities (or more rehab centers) alot more than Manhattan
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one of the benefits of supervised injection centers is an increase in people who do decide to get help

it also does many things to keep people alive so they can choose to get help instead of die
 
HStallion

HStallion

Member
Oct 25, 2017
62,261
TheGhost said:
Why not just open up more rehab centers, we need th more. They are over crowded and under staffed. Plus compared to the city, Staten Island and Long Island would benefit from these facilities (or more rehab centers) alot more than Manhattan
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Why not do both so people don't overdose before they can even attempt to get clean? As I said, what has doing nothing or treating these people like criminals actually improved for anyone?
 
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TheGhost

TheGhost

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
28,137
Long Island
phanphare said:
one of the benefits of supervised injection centers is an increase in people who do decide to get help

it also does many things to keep people alive so they can choose to get help instead of die
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So let's say they decide to get help, we have no where to put them. Now what.

We need like triple the rehab centers not injection sites.
 
Lo-Volt

Lo-Volt

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Oct 27, 2017
2,435
New Yawk City!
HStallion said:
Are they as powerful in NYC?
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Tremendously so. And I do get that a public service sounds good until it's at your backdoor because I've experienced those trade-offs in my neighborhood too. But... if it stands a chance of working. This needs a lot of approval from Albany which isn't apparent in the quoted section. It might also run afoul of federal laws and regs. And, even more, de Blasio wants it. So Gov. Cuomo will either kill it in its crib or co-opt it to perk up his progressive credentials. Even before we deal with the NIMBYism of it, the administrative hurdles are really tall.
 
Ahhthe90s

Ahhthe90s

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
1,294
I saw this in Vancouver, it was jarring as fuck. You have supervised injection sites between multi-million dollar condo locations.

Before people jump on the "THIS IS A FANTASTIC IDEA" you really need to go see Vancouver first. I don't know if these sites help or not but what I do know is it looked like further enabling these addicts. It just seemed like a grinder tent/house with supervisors shouting "next".
 
Smokeymicpot

Smokeymicpot

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Oct 25, 2017
3,837
TheGhost said:
Why not just open up more rehab centers, we need th more. They are over crowded and under staffed. Plus compared to the city, Staten Island and Long Island would benefit from these facilities (or more rehab centers) alot more than Manhattan
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Staten Island wouldn't let it happen here. We are very Republican here. I understand why Bill didn't even bother with it.
 
Gentlemen

Gentlemen

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Oct 25, 2017
9,505
TheGhost said:
Why not just open up more rehab centers, we need th more. They are over crowded and under staffed. Plus compared to the city, Staten Island and Long Island would benefit from these facilities (or more rehab centers) alot more than Manhattan
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Read the article I posted earlier. A multi-pronged approach is a proven winner. We need more rehab centers AND we need safe injection sites, because it brings addicts to a place where they also learn about access to a pathway out of addiction.
 
Baji Boxer

Baji Boxer

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Oct 27, 2017
11,376
American Eskimo said:
Is there a case study in a location that did this showing the costs versus benefits of this type of program?

I would be interested in reading up on that.

Obviously helping people in noble, but tons of people need help. We need to spend money effectively
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I was just reading this article on the subject: https://psmag.com/economics/how-supervised-injection-sites-can-help-users-and-cities

Though googling "injection site cost analysis" brings up some direct links to some studies and other related articles.
 
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TheGhost

TheGhost

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Oct 25, 2017
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Long Island
Gentlemen said:
Read the article I posted earlier. A multi-pronged approach is a proven winner. We need more rehab centers AND we need safe injection sites, because it brings addicts to a place where they also learn about access to a pathway out of addiction.
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That's all well and good but there is no sense in having injection/intervention sites if we have no where to put them. The rehab centers must come first.
 
lacinius

lacinius

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Oct 28, 2017
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How is there so little understanding on the effectiveness of harm reduction sites. For those in the US the National Library of Medicine via a study from the NCBI concluded that there should be a wide-spread adoption of these sites as national policy back in 2006.

There is sufficient evidence to support the wide-spread adoption of harm reduction interventions and to use harm reduction as an overarching policy approach in relation to illicit drugs.
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KDR_11k

KDR_11k

Banned
Nov 10, 2017
5,235
TheGhost said:
I'm sure it works great in other countries but this is still too weird for me.
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So why wouldn't it work in the US?

Ahhthe90s said:
I saw this in Vancouver, it was jarring as fuck. You have supervised injection sites between multi-million dollar condo locations.

Before people jump on the "THIS IS A FANTASTIC IDEA" you really need to go see Vancouver first. I don't know if these sites help or not but what I do know is it looked like further enabling these addicts. It just seemed like a grinder tent/house with supervisors shouting "next".
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It reduces fatalities and the spread of diseases. Pretending the drug problem doesn't exist doesn't make it go away or even reduce it. Similar to how removing sex ed from schools doesn't reduce teen pregnancy rates. Once the drug has taken control of people there's no "enabling" them, there's only preventing them from destroying themselves in service of the drug and hoping that you can get them back out of it again. In the absence of help the drug will compel them to do whatever is necessary to get more of the drug, even if it kills them or others. If addiction was rational it wouldn't be addiction.
 
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