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Instro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,002
I wonder if they will bother moving on this though. Seems like a waste of resources given that they will likely run into issues at the state level, and after elections at the federal level. In the end net neutrality is likely to be reinforced at some point in the near future.
 

bmdubya

Member
Nov 1, 2017
6,499
Colorado
Don't give business to Comcast, support municipal high speed internet, use competitors in markets that have them.

I have found most markets do have alternatives to Comcast, it's just that Comcast is by far the fastest one available to people just go with them while complaining about their monopoly. People are concerned with monopolies, but not enough to avoid giving business to them if they offer the fastest service.
In my area, I have access to Comcast and CenturyLink. My current Comcast speed is 200 Mbps. If I wanted CenturyLink, the fastest connection I could get is 5 Mbps for $50 a month. That's not enough bandwidth for my household. If CenturyLink offered service at 50 Mbps, I would switch in a second. But 5 Mbps is literally unusable in my household. Usually someone is streaming video while I play video games online.

Luckily my town just approved to build out municipal fiber, so I'll be getting that as soon as it's available. I am also moving soon, and I will look at what speeds I could get from CenturyLink at the new place. But for some people, just having an alternative isn't viable.
 

Anteo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,099
That always kinda struck me as pie-in-the-sky fearmongering. You really think Comcast is going to put a bunch of random $5-10 surcharges on your bill to access particular websites?

Yeah i dont think they are gonna charge consumers like that. They are gonna charge content providers instead
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,332
In my area, I have access to Comcast and CenturyLink. My current Comcast speed is 200 Mbps. If I wanted CenturyLink, the fastest connection I could get is 5 Mbps for $50 a month. That's not enough bandwidth for my household. If CenturyLink offered service at 50 Mbps, I would switch in a second. But 5 Mbps is literally unusable in my household. Usually someone is streaming video while I play video games online.

Luckily my town just approved to build out municipal fiber, so I'll be getting that as soon as it's available. I am also moving soon, and I will look at what speeds I could get from CenturyLink at the new place. But for some people, just having an alternative isn't viable.

Its not fast enough for you because you refuse to live with slow internet, you value fast internet more than you value avoiding giving Comcast business. The same is true for the vast majority of people who complain about Comcast.
 

Kirblar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
30,744
Because they have argued before that all torrents are illegal and that's totally true, right? Because the only reason to use torrents, is to pirate, right?

Way to miss the point of my post.
The point of your post was to over-read into basic boilerplate statements to the point of conspiratorial thinking.
 

Deleted member 12790

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
24,537

8byte

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt-account
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
9,880
Kansas
That always kinda struck me as pie-in-the-sky fearmongering. You really think Comcast is going to put a bunch of random $5-10 surcharges on your bill to access particular websites?

I know you've been quoted a million times in this thread already, but this absolutely already happens (the absurd fees) and the companies will do whatever they can to increase their bottom line and skyrocket their stock values.

The more realistic implementation won't be ala carte website access, but "fast lanes". So if you want your NetFlix in HD / UHD, you'll probably have to pay an additional fee to unlock those websites at "full speed". Things like this (throttling) have already happened from a number of providers, and it's likely to make a comeback with legal backing in the realm of charging you to access this content. It'll be a slow burn at first, with a .99 cent charge here, a $5 fee there, and eventually we'll have shit tier internet.
 

VinceK

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
701
I hope Wisconsinpasses their own Net Neutrality laws soon. Anyone know if anything is happening in this state with Net Neutrality?
 

maximumzero

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,903
New Orleans, LA
net_neturality1-e1509289851528.png

Christ, that graphic is old enough that it references both MySpace AND GameTap.
 

Cien

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,520
Its not fast enough for you because you refuse to live with slow internet, you value fast internet more than you value avoiding giving Comcast business. The same is true for the vast majority of people who complain about Comcast.

Are you REALLY trying to tell a household to live with 5Mb internet? Seriously?
 

Mona

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
26,151
That always kinda struck me as pie-in-the-sky fearmongering. You really think Comcast is going to put a bunch of random $5-10 surcharges on your bill to access particular websites?

Comcast will do anything people will allow them to do

Do I think Comcast would do this?

I think Comcast would enslave their employees if it was allowed
 

Nostremitus

Member
Nov 15, 2017
7,772
Alabama
I'm still not really sure what it is that people expect to be the real-world effects of this.
Were you around and trying to use mobile data prior to net neutrality?

If you are on your phone and able to browse websites, watch videos, and stream music as part of your regular phone subscription, thank net neutrality for making that possible.

It was sold piecemeal before.
 

Kirblar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
30,744
Nope, try again.

Or don't, because you've taken things that have already happened as "conspiratorial thinking."

https://www.wired.com/2007/11/comcast-sued-ov/
No business is going to be making a statement actively supporting the ability of people to user services like torrents. For obvious reasons.
Were you around and trying to use mobile data prior to net neutrality?
Mobile data has never had unfettered net neutrality
 

Deleted member 12790

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
24,537
No business is going to be making a statement actively supporting the ability of people to user services like torrents. For obvious reasons.

Which is, like, my fucking point, the one that went a thousand feet over your head. Torrents are not illegal. Yet they will assuredly be classified as an "illegal" service which will be throttled. For obvious reasons (that are purely truthiness).
 
Oct 25, 2017
19,040
I tend to doubt that this would happen not because I think Comcast is some amazing company, but just because such a flagrant moneygrab would be the quickest way to galvanize the public and get net neutrality regulations put back in place (if not at the federal level then at the state level).
You don't think throttling speed and capping data is already a flagrant moneygrab? In some ways it's even moreso than this draconian pay-to-access image!
 

Kirblar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
30,744
Which is, like, my fucking point, the one that went a thousand feet over your head. Torrents are not illegal. Yet they will assuredly be classified as an "illegal" service which will be throttled. For obvious reasons (that are purely truthiness).
If a service is used to almost exclusively do illegal things, blocking the service isn't irrational. (Same deal as w/ the backpage shutdown.) I'm not agreeing with it, and Comcast sucks, but the fearmongering with this stuff is ridiculous (and ignores the political realities snapcracken just made a thread about.)
 

Deleted member 12790

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
24,537
You don't think throttling speed and capping data is already a flagrant moneygrab? In some ways it's even moreso than this draconian pay-to-access image!

data caps, in fact, are the mechanism by which ISPs will ultimately censor the internet. Data caps turns bandwidth into a new kind of currency, one you spend to go to websites. It now costs "data" to go to certain websites, but don't worry, there are comcast-specific solutions that don't cost data to go to. This will starve out the competition.
 

Border

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,859
You don't think throttling speed and capping data is already a flagrant moneygrab? In some ways it's even moreso than this draconian pay-to-access image!
The number of people affected by caps and throttling is pretty effectively miniscule.

If every single customer wakes up one day and is told they need to pay an extra $5/month to access YouTube, there would be a pretty massive public outcry.

Were you around and trying to use mobile data prior to net neutrality?

If you are on your phone and able to browse websites, watch videos, and stream music as part of your regular phone subscription, thank net neutrality for making that possible.
I got an iPhone about a year after they came out, but don't recall ever having to pay for access to particular websites. That's not to say that it didn't happen with some carriers.....I just never remember tiered access ever being an option.
 
Oct 27, 2017
521
I guess if Spectrum starts throttling my internet and charging extra for specific services, I'll drop 'em like a hot potato. They're the only broadband company where I live though, the others are shit Satellite companies.
 

Deleted member 12790

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
24,537
User Banned (3 Days): Needless Hostility
If a service is used to almost exclusively do illegal things, blocking the service isn't irrational.

BitTorrent isn't a service, it's a protocol. You block the illegal service, i.e. ThePirateBay, not the fucking protocol. And you have no fucking clue how much legitimate business is done through torrenting. When I worked with MD Anderson, we'd use private torrents to transfer huge files across the country.

Comcast blocked the protocol.

Dear god I'm glad you're no longer a mod with the mentality you are showing.
 

Lump

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,963

This is what might've happened if Net Neutrality died in 2005.

In 2018, it's going to be all about data caps. Be prepared for ISPs to implement data caps all over America. As the need for higher bandwidth grows (streaming more 4K content, downloading larger and larger games from Steam and the like), caps will not only be implemented but will stay relatively restrictive over time.

"But stream and download content from our partners Hulu and Origin, and content from those services won't count against your tiny cap!"

The writing is on the wall.
 

Holundrian

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,135
That always kinda struck me as pie-in-the-sky fearmongering. You really think Comcast is going to put a bunch of random $5-10 surcharges on your bill to access particular websites?
Once upon a time the trump presidency and how terrible it would be were also regarded as pie in the sky fearmongering.

I don't see what's so unbelievable in this, the one thing you can count on is human greed. If they can get away with it they will do it. And boy I'm pretty fucking sure right now they could get away with it seeing that the American public doesn't generally give a shit about anything. Fucking 60 million people that can't be arsed to do the minimum of research and critical thinking and just voted based on pure emotion. I likely bigger numbers of people that didn't vote at all cause "nothing too bad is gonna happen right?".

People that truly think nothing is gonna happen with the repeal of net neutrality I don't even understand that thought process. So people paid a shit load of money to lobby to repeal it to do nothing? Goddamn think for a little. It's not that hard.
 

Netherscourge

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,904
Can't wait for the collusion, price gouging and conglomerate inflation to kick in.

Ajit must feel so proud. Verizon will be giving him a nice fat check - in an off shore account, of course.
 

tommy7154

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,370
Yes? Have you seen the sort of bullshit surcharges comcast has? The other day my dad ordered cable internet from them, because they are the only isp in his area. He had to argue for an hour to get them to understand that he had his own modem and didnt need to rent a new modem at $14 a month. So, in the end, they charged him a one-time, $50 "self installation fee" because he was installing his own modem.
OMFG they should be sued for this type of thing.

I owned my own modem, yet every 3 months or so without fail I would receive a $10 charge for a modem rental. I literally had to go through this with them 5 times. Each time I would call and tell them to remove the charge because I am not renting their scam crappy modem, I have my own. And every damn time they would apologize and remove it and tell me its been fixed and noted, only for it to happen yet again a couple months later.

They are the scummiest pieces of shit I've ever dealt with.

Who knows how many people they stole from in this manner.
 

LCGeek

Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,856
The number of people affected by caps and throttling is pretty effectively miniscule.

So what, consumers shouldn't be on the hook for a problem the industry creates and then wants to charge them for.

If a service is used to almost exclusively do illegal things, blocking the service isn't irrational. (Same deal as w/ the backpage shutdown.) I'm not agreeing with it, and Comcast sucks, but the fearmongering with this stuff is ridiculous (and ignores the political realities snapcracken just made a thread about.)

There's no fearmongering some of us remember what these companies did in the AOL era and how hard they fought to try to keep the internet like that and we saw what they did to services they didn't like in the file sharing era

Your crowd needs to lose these tired line when history literally show plenty of examples as to why most people don't want ISPs to have a wild west like they do in other countries.
 

Kirblar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
30,744
BitTorrent isn't a service, it's a protocol. You block the illegal service, i.e. ThePirateBay, not the fucking protocol. And you have no fucking clue how much legitimate business is done through torrenting. When I worked with MD Anderson, we'd use private torrents to transfer huge files across the country.

Comcast blocked the protocol.

Dear god I'm glad you're no longer a mod with the mentality you are showing.
Tons of it is now -it's how a lot of modern downloads are done w/ gaming! If they want to block Game of Thrones from being pirated while allowing legit stuff through, I don't see an ethical issue with that.
There's no fearmongering some of us remember what these companies did in the AOL era and how hard they fought to try to keep the internet like that and we saw what they did to services they didn't like in the file sharing era

Your crowd needs to lose these tired line when history literally show plenty of examples as to why most people don't want ISPs to have a wild west like they do in other countries.
I support Net Neutrality. I just don't think we're in a position where it's actually threatened, despite Pai's best attempts to go at it, because the companies are well aware of the political realities and the incoming blue wave and inevitability of a Dem trifecta in the next 2-6 years.
 

bmdubya

Member
Nov 1, 2017
6,499
Colorado
This is what might've happened if Net Neutrality died in 2005.

In 2018, it's going to be all about data caps. Be prepared for ISPs to implement data caps all over America. As the need for higher bandwidth grows (streaming more 4K content, downloading larger and larger games from Steam and the like), caps will not only be implemented but will stay relatively restrictive over time.

"But stream and download content from our partners Hulu and Origin, and content from those services won't count against your tiny cap!"

The writing is on the wall.
Yep, it is 100% what it will be. It will force businesses to give money to ISPs to be a partner, or else the customer pays for it. If Twitch isn't an official partner of your ISP, and the traffic counts against your cap, either the customer screams at Twitch, which they in turn give money to the ISP, or the consumer just pays for it, and the ISP makes more money.
 

Zan

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,419
Within the last several years, it was supposed to. There were lawsuits against Verizon pending because of their net neutrality violations in mobile data.

Those lawsuits were dropped by Ajit Pai.

...I kinda didn't say that? Was there a forum glitch? Kirblar said it.
 

Deleted member 12790

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
24,537
Tons of it is now -it's how a lot of modern downloads are done w/ gaming! If they want to block Game of Thrones from being pirated while allowing legit stuff through, I don't see an ethical issue with that.

I don't know how many times to post to get it through your skull that what these ISPs consider "legit" are nebulous, and often against what the word of the law says.

This is the last time i will point this out to you.

I support Net Neutrality.

Bullshit.
 

Border

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,859
People that truly think nothing is gonna happen with the repeal of net neutrality I don't even understand that thought process. So people paid a shit load of money to lobby to repeal it to do nothing? Goddamn think for a little. It's not that hard.
I don't think that absolutely nothing is going to happen. But at the same time, I don't think there's suddenly going to be $45 nickel-and-dime in surcharges for me just to access the websites I used to.

The funny thing that strikes me about that tiered access image everyone always posts is that it is designed to inspire shock and outrage, but if you add up all the surcharges on there plus the base rate your monthly bill would be about $70-80. Which is kinda what I pay for internet access now.
 

Holundrian

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,135
Man I guess to some 2016 wasn't a wake up call at all.
I don't think that absolutely nothing is going to happen. But at the same time, I don't think there's suddenly going to be $45 nickel-and-dime in surcharges for me just to access the websites I used to.

The funny thing that strikes me about that tiered access image everyone always posts is that it is designed to inspire shock and outrage, but if you add up all the surcharges on there plus the base rate your monthly bill would be about $70-80. Which is kinda what I pay for internet access now.
Nobody is saying thing will get ridiculous all of a sudden. But things will get worse over time if people don't take it seriously and begin to fucking care.
You push prices that that are at the edge of not ok until they become standardized before pushing them again.

To take a far less egregious that's far less important and probably far more okay in the grand scheme of things(cause it's consumer luxury goods and tbh if people don't care that much that's ok too) but just look at gaming it was a gradual transition from horse armor dlc to people being totally ok paying for lootboxes in full priced titles.
You can bet if you go back in time telling people about lootbox monetization it would seem really stupid to them back then.
 
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VariantX

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,880
Columbia, SC
Don't give business to Comcast, support municipal high speed internet, use competitors in markets that have them.

I have found most markets do have alternatives to Comcast, it's just that Comcast is by far the fastest one available to people just go with them while complaining about their monopoly. People are concerned with monopolies, but not enough to avoid giving business to them if they offer the fastest service.

Literally impossible to do in most parts of America. You either have that provider or you have no internet. There are no other providers to take your business to. It's like trying to boycott your power or water company.
 

Deleted member 12790

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
24,537
But at the same time, I don't think there's suddenly going to be $45 nickel-and-dime in surcharges for me just to access the websites I used to.

There already are in the moble realm. They literally charge you more data for certain websites. And, if you're not aware, that data is worth money. It's like $50 a gb through ATT, for example.
 

LCGeek

Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,856
I support Net Neutrality. I just don't think we're in a position where it's actually threatened, despite Pai's best attempts to go at it, because the companies are well aware of the political realities and the incoming blue wave and inevitability of a Dem trifecta in the next 2-6 years.

I don't think they will pull anything big for now, yet I see a few like ATT, verizon, and comcast playing hijinx in small skirmishes as they have been before obama got tough.