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Neil Druckmann says new Naughty Dog title ‘could redefine mainstream perceptions of gaming’

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dreamfall

dreamfall

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Oct 25, 2017
6,459
Down for more dog killing, if the crunch doesn't kill the dev team first!

It'll be interesting to see what ethical approaches can actually be applied to AI generative technology in development, and how our "heroes" slowly turn into major villains in the adoption. I think in a post TLOU2 world, the missteps of losing their live service project, and the prospect of even more Last of Us just has me on the outs. Hopefully it'll be something major, or just nice and brutally cinematic as always.
 
Adulfzen

Adulfzen

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Oct 29, 2017
3,694
between some of his former statements regarding Israel Palestine and him pushing AI, he can kindly fuck off.
 
Iwao

Iwao

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Oct 25, 2017
12,417
Ash_Greytree said:
I was gonna say, even with the AI tools, Druckmann would figure out some way to crunch the remaining staff so hard that they require hospitalization and mental health leave like what happened on TLoU2. He's just that bad a person.
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What you're saying is nonsense. He became VP towards the latter half of development on Part II, and not long after shipping the game the studio decided to hire a team of producers to alleviate the systemic crunch issues they've had for years due to the flat hierarchy. He's also spoken more recently on deciding not to announce their game too early to help improve the work-life balance of the team. The Last of Us Part I's development was also completed with zero crunch involved. Druckmann clearly wants positive change as much as everyone else does.
 
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Kalentan

Kalentan

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Oct 25, 2017
46,836
St. Elmo's Fire said:
TLOU2 really made a lot of people big mad.
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The amount of misinformation about ND that people gleefully post is honestly insane. Like for example, after TLOU2, they acknowledged the problems with their crunch culture and from various anecdotes from Developers over there, they have been very genuine in trying to resolve it. That is part of why they haven't announced the next game yet, cause they don't want to put that pressure on them until it's close to being done.

But you will still have folks claiming that they are crunching as much as ever and justifying their hatred due to that. Facts clearly do not matter.

(It also kind of reveals that folks only really get angry about Crunch when it involves a studio they dislike).

See for example:


View: https://x.com/HatokTalk/status/1793691369263010266

See, facts do not matter.
 
St. Elmo's Fire

St. Elmo's Fire

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Jul 2, 2021
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Kalentan said:
The amount of misinformation about ND that people gleefully post is honestly insane. Like for example, after TLOU2, they acknowledged the problems with their crunch culture and from various anecdotes from Developers over there, they have been very genuine in trying to resolve it. That is part of why they haven't announced the next game yet, cause they don't want to put that pressure on them until it's close to being done.

But you will still have folks claiming that they are crunching as much as ever and justifying their hatred due to that. Facts clearly do not matter.

(It also kind of reveals that folks only really get angry about Crunch when it involves a studio they dislike).
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You just summarized the entire thread here.
 
Razgriz-Specter

Razgriz-Specter

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Oct 25, 2017
31,648
Hey Neil... can yall just make a fun game like Uncharted 2?
Everything ain't got to be that deep or serious all the time
 
Yerffej

Yerffej

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Oct 25, 2017
25,593
Razgriz-Specter said:
Hey Neil... can yall just make a fun game like Uncharted 2?
Everything ain't got to be that deep or serious all the time
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Fuckin A. That game was the last time I was into a game so much, I restarted as soon as I finished. Nothing they've done since has felt as fun. Well, Lost Legacy was really damn close but that prolly wasn't the main team.
 
Kalentan

Kalentan

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Oct 25, 2017
46,836
St. Elmo's Fire said:
You just summarized the entire thread here.
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The thing is, ND isn't perfect, their crunch culture in particular was super bad but it can also be true that they have made genuine drives to fix that crunch culture.

Honestly, at some point I think people almost want there to be crunching just so that it justifies some weird hate boner they have.
 
Greywaren

Greywaren

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Jul 16, 2019
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I don't need you to redefine mainstream perceptions of gaming, Neil, I need you to actually release a new game this generation.
 

Firefly

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Jul 10, 2018
8,904
Kalentan said:
The amount of misinformation about ND that people gleefully post is honestly insane. Like for example, after TLOU2, they acknowledged the problems with their crunch culture and from various anecdotes from Developers over there, they have been very genuine in trying to resolve it. That is part of why they haven't announced the next game yet, cause they don't want to put that pressure on them until it's close to being done.
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Not announcing the game yet doesn't mean they don't have internal deadlines or rids the team of pressure and crunch. I know Jason's reporting on Rockstar showed that there were positive changes being made but what do we know of ND? Asking because I genuinely missed that in the news.
 
Ry.

Ry.

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the planet Zebes
Crossing Eden said:
2013 was a year wherein the gaming industry was praising the story of Bioshock Infinite and Beyond Two Souls as brilliant stories. The story presented in TLOU is absolutely up to par with the rest of the game.
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Sure, I'm glad you liked the story as much as you do. For me, the gameplay, mechanics and tech were all things I had never seen executed so perfectly. The story of a bond between a surrogate father unwilling to let a young girl die in a zombie apocalypse was just not as revolutionary as all the other aspects of the game were (to me). It wasn't breaking new ground compared to the rest of the game so to speak.

Edit*
I still think it's an amazing game. And I also think it's a good story.
 
Kalentan

Kalentan

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Oct 25, 2017
46,836
Firefly said:
Not announcing the game yet doesn't mean they don't have internal deadlines or rids the team of pressure and crunch. I know Jason's reporting on Rockstar showed that there were positive changes being made but what do we know of ND? Asking because I genuinely missed that in the news.
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Well they talked about in the TLOU2 documentary about how they couldn't do the Crunch Culture anymore and laid out various methods they were using internally to reduce crunch as much as possible. That part was recorded after they had already started implementing those methods (due to COVID the Doc was delayed long enough that they recorded stuff that was very new), hence why some devs spoke about how they hadn't been crunching on their recent projects.

But none of these reactionaries (i.e. people with big followers who seem to only care about crunch in specific scenarios) watched that Documentary and there wasn't really any articles on it either, so people are basically pretending it doesn't exist.
 
Saganator

Saganator

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Oct 26, 2017
7,811
Kinda wished he never said anything and just surprised everyone, now people will be going in with possibly unrealistic expectations
 
Clippy

Clippy

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Feb 11, 2022
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Kalentan said:
The amount of misinformation about ND that people gleefully post is honestly insane. Like for example, after TLOU2, they acknowledged the problems with their crunch culture and from various anecdotes from Developers over there, they have been very genuine in trying to resolve it. That is part of why they haven't announced the next game yet, cause they don't want to put that pressure on them until it's close to being done.
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I don't work at ND so I won't make any claims about their current work culture, but I'm very dubious about the idea that we should say a studio's culture is good because they say so. That goes for Naughty Dog, Rockstar, or Undead Labs.

Not shipping a game for a while is easily explained by increasing development timelines and failed projects.
 
wafflebrain

wafflebrain

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Oct 27, 2017
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Saganator said:
Kinda wished he never said anything and just surprised everyone, now people will be going in with possibly unrealistic expectations
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This, I'm day one for anything ND puts out regardless and I'm sure whatever it is will be great but still this is kinda Kojima levels of hyping things up for something that's probably years away from release anyhow. Let your work speak for itself and all that once its out in the hands of those that will be the judge.
 
Kalentan

Kalentan

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Oct 25, 2017
46,836
Clippy said:
I don't work at ND so I won't make any claims about their current work culture, but I'm very dubious about the idea that we should say a studio's culture is good because they say so. That goes for Naughty Dog, Rockstar, or Undead Labs.

Not shipping a game for a while is easily explained by increasing development timelines and failed projects.
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If people on the ground floor who are the ones who were being crunched the most, say that they aren't being crunched... then I'm going to believe them over folks who clearly just want to be mad.
 
Alienous

Alienous

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Oct 25, 2017
9,713
It's interesting that he brings up The Last of Us' TV show, because you could learn different lessons from it.

You could end up thinking you're some of the best at storytelling. The storytelling is so good that it managed to be successful in one genre to successful in another with minimal alterations.

There is another lesson though. The fact that The Last of Us managed that feat is because it isn't really utilising the storytelling potential in games. Aspects like the environmental storytelling of reading notes was, it turns out, superfluous.

Hopefully Naughty Dog does innovate - they can take a risk and people will follow. I think there's a lot of room - even just in the idea of 'cutscene storytelling' - to acknowledge player actions more.
 
BrickArts295

BrickArts295

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Oct 26, 2017
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To be honest their accessibility settings are seriously top tier, that alone should have been enough to "redefine mainstream perceptions of gaming".
 
DieH@rd

DieH@rd

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Oct 26, 2017
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janusff said:

View: https://x.com/dmc_ryan/status/1793722477673345149?s=46
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... but on the other hand, Naughty Dog managed to do just that IMO not once, but twice!

Uncharted 2 was a true turning point in gaming industry, showing everyone how a video game can surpass a summer blockbuster. It had such a great mix of setpieces and excellent characters, with incredible presentation and pacing. Head and shoulders over any competition.

And then few years latter, ND did that again even more successfully with The Last of Us.

Nothing guarantees that they can do that again, but they have proven that they can surpass limits of the medium and reach mainstream attention. Also, Neil said this in the investor-focused interview, so IMO everything said there was produced with a maximum "positives vibes/trust in your investment" effect.

OutofMana said:
How about Naughty Dog redefine their perception of gameplay, amiright?
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So you are saying you never played TLOU2. The game is as near as anyone got to MGSV god-tier TPS gameplay.
 
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JuniperAndSage

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Dec 27, 2019
6,408
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Iwao said:
What you're saying is nonsense. He became VP towards the latter half of development on Part II, and not long after shipping the game the studio decided to hire a team of producers to alleviate the systemic crunch issues they've had for years due to the flat hierarchy. He's also spoken more recently on deciding not to announce their game too early to help improve the work-life balance of the team. He clearly wants change as much as everyone else does.
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Yall remember that happy, fluffy piece on the cultural changes at Rockstar a couple of years ago? How they were getting rid of crunch? Then a couple months ago, they ordered everyone back to the office to resume crunch?

At some point, yall gotta stop being naive about who runs these companies, and why, and what they are willing to do to the people working there.
 
Zebesian-X

Zebesian-X

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Dec 3, 2018
21,674
Iwao said:
Yikes... not only do some people think Naughty Dog is pro-crunch in 2024, but apparently they still believe they make gameplay like it's 2007.
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I'm happy they've committed to eliminating crunch at the studio, but we should probably wait until their next major release has shipped before giving them the benefit of the doubt
 
Kalentan

Kalentan

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Oct 25, 2017
46,836
JuniperAndSage said:
Yall remember that happy, fluffy piece on the cultural changes at Rockstar a couple of years ago? How they were getting rid of crunch? Then a couple months ago, they ordered everyone back to the office to resume crunch?

At some point, yall gotta stop being naive about who runs these companies, and why, and what they are willing to do to the people working there.
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Again, employees at ND said that they haven't been crunching.

Does that not matter? Or are they puff pieces themselves and take the stance that no one, at the bottom of the "ladder" should be trusted either?

Cynicism doesn't override facts.
 
Iwao

Iwao

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Oct 25, 2017
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Firefly said:
Not announcing the game yet doesn't mean they don't have internal deadlines or rids the team of pressure and crunch.
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That's all definitely connected to the reason why they said they are not going to announce the game too far in advance.

I know Jason's reporting on Rockstar showed that there were positive changes being made but what do we know of ND? Asking because I genuinely missed that in the news.
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2021 - Hires a team of producers to help manage the crunch problems.
2021 - Arne Meyer is promoted to VP and given a role directly related to improving the culture and well-being of devs.
2022 - Ships a game without involving any crunch at all.
 
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