Edmond Dantès

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Aug 24, 2022
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For the regular boozer it is a source of great comfort: the fat pile of studies that say a daily tipple is better for a longer life than avoiding alcohol completely.

But a new analysis challenges the thinking and blames the rosy message on flawed research that compares drinkers with people who are sick and sober.

Scientists in Canada delved into 107 published studies on people's drinking habits and how long they lived. In most cases, they found that drinkers were compared with people who abstained or consumed very little alcohol, without taking into account that some had cut down or quit through ill health.

The finding means that amid the abstainers and occasional drinkers are a significant number of sick people, bringing the group's average health down, and making light to moderate drinkers look better off in comparison.

"It's been a propaganda coup for the alcohol industry to propose that moderate use of their product lengthens people's lives," said Dr Tim Stockwell, first author on the study and a scientist at the Canadian Institute for Substance Use Research at the University of Victoria.

"The idea has impacted national drinking guidelines, estimates of alcohol's burden of disease worldwide and has been an impediment to effective policymaking on alcohol and public health," he added. Details are published in the Journal of Studies on Alcohol and Drugs.

Many studies on the health impact of alcohol show a J-curve effect, where death rates are lowest among those who drink a little. When the Canadian team combined the data from the studies in their analysis, it suggested that light to moderate drinkers – those having between one drink a week and two a day – had a 14% lower risk of dying over the study period compared with abstainers.

Article:

www.theguardian.com

Moderate drinking not better for health than abstaining, analysis suggests

Scientists say flaws in previous research mean health benefits from alcohol were exaggerated

Study:


pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Why Do Only Some Cohort Studies Find Health Benefits From Low-Volume Alcohol Use? A Systematic Review and Meta-Analysis of Study Characteristics That May Bias Mortality Risk Estimates - PubMed

Studies with lifetime selection biases may create misleading positive health associations. These biases pervade the field of alcohol epidemiology and can confuse communications about health risks. Future research should investigate whether smoking status mediates, moderates, or confounds...

Abstract:


Objective: Assumptions about alcohol's health benefits profoundly influence global disease burden estimates and drinking guidelines. Using theory and evidence, we identify and test study characteristics that may bias estimates of all-cause mortality risk associated with low-volume drinking.

Method:

We identified 107 longitudinal studies by systematic review with 724 estimates of the association between alcohol consumption and all-cause mortality for 4,838,825 participants with 425,564 recorded deaths. "Higher-quality" studies had a mean cohort age of 55 years or younger, followed up beyond 55 years, and excluded former and occasional drinkers from abstainer reference groups. "Low-volume" alcohol use was defined as between one drink per week (>1.30 g ethanol/day) and two drinks per day (<25 g ethanol/ day). Mixed linear regression was used to model relative risks (RRs) of mortality for subgroups of higher- versus lower-quality studies.

Results:

As predicted, studies with younger cohorts and separating former and occasional drinkers from abstainers estimated similar mortality risk for low-volume drinkers (RR = 0.98, 95% CI [0.87, 1.11]) as abstainers. Studies not meeting these quality criteria estimated significantly lower risk for low-volume drinkers (RR = 0.84, [0.79, 0.89]). In exploratory analyses, studies controlling for smoking and/or socioeconomic status had significantly reduced mortality risks for low-volume drinkers. However, mean RR estimates for low-volume drinkers in nonsmoking cohorts were above 1.0 (RR = 1.16, [0.91, 1.41]).

Conclusions:

Studies with lifetime selection biases may create misleading positive health associations. These biases pervade the field of alcohol epidemiology and can confuse communications about health risks. Future research should investigate whether smoking status mediates, moderates, or confounds alcohol-mortality risk relationships.
 

beebop

Member
May 30, 2023
2,864
This feels like those studies that say if you can do 40 press ups you're far less likely to get heart disease. When in actual fact the sort of people who can do 40 press ups are likely living lifestyles that would prevent those sort of health complications.

Basically: don't read this and think starting to drink has a health benefit.
 

Zoidn

Member
Dec 23, 2018
1,793
Well yeah? The whole "a glass of wine a day" was pretty much just marketing. A drop of poison is still a drop of poison, no matter what name is on the bottle.

Can never hurt to have it spelled out like this though.
 

thewienke

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,033
On the other hand Wisconsin's life expectancy is 3-4 years higher than much of the teetotaler South.

I won't argue with the research that you could be even healthier without it but on the scale of things that are bad for you I'm sure light to moderate drinking doesn't rank as high as cigarette smoking or obesity.
 

Sadire

▲ Legend ▲
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Oct 31, 2017
1,550
I'm building up *hic* immunity to poison!

Glad I stopped drinking. It wouldn't match well with me anyway.
 

Window

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,323
I think there's been a lot of these type of studies coming out recently, pretty sure there was a thread on one last year.

Edit: found it https://www.resetera.com/threads/even-a-little-alcohol-can-harm-your-health.675433/

The thing I don't get though why do they have such a large ranging definition of a low-volume drinker.

"Low-volume" alcohol use was defined as between one drink per week (>1.30 g ethanol/day) and two drinks per day (<25 g ethanol/ day).

It would be interesting to look at the results of weekly drinkers vs daily drinkers vs abstainers. Maybe daily 2 drinks vs weekly 2 drinks doesn't make a difference.
 
Last edited:

entremet

You wouldn't toast a NES cartridge
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Oct 26, 2017
64,399
Yeah, we've been learning a lot about alcohol recently. Shit is bad.

On the other hand Wisconsin's life expectancy is 3-4 years higher than much of the teetotaler South.

I won't argue with the research that you could be even healthier without it but on the scale of things that are bad for you I'm sure light to moderate drinking doesn't rank as high as cigarette smoking or obesity.

Social connection is big for health. Could be that!
 

regenhuber

Member
Nov 4, 2017
5,509
Well yeah? The whole "a glass of wine a day" was pretty much just marketing. A drop of poison is still a drop of poison, no matter what name is on the bottle.

Yeah PR did a number on human brains with regards to alcohol.

Friend of mine studied medicine and became a doc, he told me in the 2000s that especially the "oh 1 only have a glass" people are lying (there is usually a second and third glass) and will damage their liver over time.
The college kid who blacks out twice a week, actually has better chances to retire with a healthy liver if he just stops drinking at some point.
tbf this is an anecdote from 20 years ago but it made sense back then and makes sense now.

But he also told me how the docs at his clinic test for alcoholism, which was pretty eye opening.
They tell a patient "OK, over the next 6 months you can't have any alcohol" and if there is only a slight hesitation, a grimace or any other tell, they will look into drinking habits as a potential issue.

The industry and media have made alcohol such an integral part of society that not drinking anything for half a year sounds absolutely ridicolous and impossible. From a medical pov, if you can't do that, you are already addicted.
 

subpar spatula

Refuses to Wash his Ass
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
22,504
Like, I eat healthy, exercise, and am generally active throughout the day. I also have some drinks throughout the week. Scientifically, if someone was my doppelgänger except they did not drink, how much more life do they have than me?
 

Glio

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Oct 27, 2017
25,467
Spain
I remember when at university in the oenology subject they sold us the antioxidant properties of wine and then in an applied biochemistry subject the professor told us "Nah, all of that has never been tested with living models, that enzyme does not resist the pH of the stomach, it's all part of the wine industry to make it seem like a glass a day is healthy".
 

N64Controller

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Nov 2, 2017
9,045
Yeah, we've been learning a lot about alcohol recently. Shit is bad.

It's a hard thing to talk about too because a lot of the population in a lot of countries is unknowingly alcoholic and there's tons of normalization about alcohol everywhere. When I came to terms with my alcoholism a few years ago and went sober, I had quite a few people try to tell me I didn't have a problem because I didn't drink every day and could restrain myself on week days. Lots of people get EXTREMELY defensive when stuff like that is brought up. It's one of the reasons why it took me so long to admit to myself I had a problem.

On an unrelated note, I hit 5-years sober yesterday.

That's amazing, congrats!
 

entremet

You wouldn't toast a NES cartridge
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Oct 26, 2017
64,399
It's a hard thing to talk about too because a lot of the population in a lot of countries is unknowingly alcoholic and there's tons of normalization about alcohol everywhere. When I came to terms with my alcoholism a few years ago and went sober, I had quite a few people try to tell me I didn't have a problem because I didn't drink every day and could restrain myself on week days. Lots of people get EXTREMELY defensive when stuff like that is brought up. It's one of the reasons why it took me so long to admit to myself I had a problem.



That's amazing, congrats!
It's the most socially accepted drug by far. Well caffeine too, but caffeine is nowhere near as bad.

I don't think we need prohibition, but warning labels would be great. I'm sure the beverage industry will fight it.
 

Menchin

Member
Apr 1, 2019
5,553
Like, I eat healthy, exercise, and am generally active throughout the day. I also have some drinks throughout the week. Scientifically, if someone was my doppelgänger except they did not drink, how much more life do they have than me?

If they had the exact same life as you up to this point except they never drank alcohol (or even just drank it less than you) they'd be lower on the J curve than you, although giving you an exact figure of how many years longer they'd live is impossible. It's more useful to think of it in terms of quality of later life than length when you're not a heavy drinker
 

P-MAC

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Nov 15, 2017
4,837
This was never plausible anyway. It's a substance that shouldn't be in the body. One sip causes damage and takes a lot of work to remove from the body
 

NativeTongue

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Oct 4, 2023
1,568
NYC
How is 1 drink a day moderate is my question. It's so socially emailed that people can't imagine going even a couple weeks without drinking
 

mangopositive

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
2,598
I'm on day 332 without and I can't state enough how much better I feel. I'd gotten used to constant low-grade nausea and I didn't even realize it.
 

TheCat

Member
Dec 20, 2023
396
Where I live Alcohol is basically above everything.
Only cigarettes rival it.
You can even kill someone with your car but barely receive any punishment if you're drunk enough because of how protected alcohol is here.

Alcohol industry is especially strong here and sadly connected to our "culture" itself.
We just burried a work colleague a few months ago who was in his late 50s and started shaking if he didn't get to drink for 10 minutes.
Friends lost their dads to it and mine even though he managed to quit 35 years ago is still facing the problems of it.

Its actually even damaging your DNA if I remember correctly from older and a kinda recent study.
You don't have to be heavy drinker.
Every sip is bad.
Like the waterdrop that is slowly but steady working through the Stone.
 

Salty AF

Member
Oct 30, 2017
6,566
They're not even going into the mental effects of drinking all the time, either. I quit over 5 months ago and I just feel so much more calm and able to take on problems in stride. Work deadlines don't freak me out anymore. And I'm not waking up with a hangover of any kind has been so good for hitting the gym.
 

VIPER

Member
Nov 12, 2023
730
It's the worst drug on the planet and should be banned.

I've met countless of lives at utter ruin due to alcohol (I always think we the individual should bear some personal accountability however).
 

TheGummyBear

Member
Jan 6, 2018
9,696
United Kingdom
As an alcoholic who struggles with the drink, the most telling part of the article is that the alcohol industry has basically been up to the same shit the tobacco industry was doing in the 50's, putting a finger on the scales to tilt studies and public health policy in their favour.

Not splitting teetotallers from people who are abstinent due to health problems isn't just negligence, that's some insidious shit.
 

Xun

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,456
London
I love beer but my body just can't handle it well the next day anymore.

I don't plan on going sober, but I'm definitely working on scaling back my consumption massively.
 
Jan 18, 2018
2,901
Watching my dad and brother drink a lot when I was younger kept me from ever trying alcohol. I hate the smell. And can't stand being around drunk folks . Never seemed like a good time.
I had no idea people thought it was healthy
 

Fright Zone

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Dec 17, 2017
4,666
London
That's a shame. I'm 7 months sober but planned to reintroduce a small amount of alcohol back into my life next year.
I did believe that a little red wine could be good for you due to the concentration of polyphenols.
 

demosthenes

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Oct 25, 2017
12,147
I'll keep enjoying my one glass of wine a day occasionally. My 50 bottles in my basement aren't going to drink themselves.
 

steejee

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Oct 28, 2017
9,443
I'll admit I thought this was known years ago. That is - that the 'One drink a day is healthy!' thing was missing a lot of context in the study and didn't account for people who had to quit booze for health reasons ending up in the 'Zero drinks' category, skewing the health outcomes.

In any case, it kinda sucks that I like the taste of whisky and fancy beers, so something I enjoy is by nature bad for me at any level. Fun! I guess fortunately I hate being drunk and at my age it takes very little to get hungover (and hangovers suuuuck worse) so that does help motivate me to avoid much consumption.

So I do try to just keep my weekly intake below ~5 drinks (units, so a fancy tasty DIPA is like 1.5 - 2 drinks). Don't always succeed, but I feel it's a good compromise of enjoying life without noticeably changing my health risks.
 

Volimar

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Oct 25, 2017
42,584
On the other hand Wisconsin's life expectancy is 3-4 years higher than much of the teetotaler South.

I won't argue with the research that you could be even healthier without it but on the scale of things that are bad for you I'm sure light to moderate drinking doesn't rank as high as cigarette smoking or obesity.


Cheese benefits counteract the alcohol.
 

YimbyButler

Member
Jun 1, 2024
1,618
Thing is for me abstaining isn't on the menu. It's moderate or full blown lawless drunk.

I choose moderation because everytime I've made rules to abstain I relapse pretty hard.
 

Funkelpop

Member
Sep 2, 2022
6,045
On the other hand Wisconsin's life expectancy is 3-4 years higher than much of the teetotaler South.

I won't argue with the research that you could be even healthier without it but on the scale of things that are bad for you I'm sure light to moderate drinking doesn't rank as high as cigarette smoking or obesity.

Probably the food. I have never heard of good Wisconsin food. 😂
 

Acidote

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,217
I'm in the low volume alcohol situation. Maybe a cider or a beer a week. Ocasionally more than that (as in I'm gonna drink more in my birthday barbecue and stuff like that) but then I can also pass months and months without a sip of anything alcoholic.
 

OrangeNova

Member
Oct 30, 2017
13,407
Canada
I'm in the low volume alcohol situation. Maybe a cider or a beer a week. Ocasionally more than that (as in I'm gonna drink more in my birthday barbecue and stuff like that) but then I can also pass months and months without a sip of anything alcoholic.
I'm in the same boat. I tend to drink more in the summer just because I'm at events more frequently where I'll have maybe a single alcoholic drink. But even that is like two drinks on the weekend and nothing through the week.
 

RPGam3r

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,462
That's a shame. I'm 7 months sober but planned to reintroduce a small amount of alcohol back into my life next year.
I did believe that a little red wine could be good for you due to the concentration of polyphenols.

You do realize there are numerous foods that have the same benefit that are not poison. This is the part that was always funny to me, it's not like polyphenols are unique to wine.
 

Fright Zone

Member
Dec 17, 2017
4,666
London
You do realize there are numerous foods that have the same benefit that are not poison. This is the part that was always funny to me, it's not like polyphenols are unique to wine.

Well yeah of course, just eat red grapes. But the polyphenols wouldn't be the main reason I'd drink red wine, it'd be for the taste and relaxing properties, any health benefits are just a bonus.
 

D A M A G E D

Banned
Feb 24, 2024
461
Been drunk like maybe 5 times in the last decade. Always as a cope to extreme/traumatic situations. Fuck this shit and abstain, your life will be better. Used to be a really heavy drinker in my 20s and, well, they didn't go well.
 

TheGummyBear

Member
Jan 6, 2018
9,696
United Kingdom
I'll admit I thought this was known years ago. That is - that the 'One drink a day is healthy!' thing was missing a lot of context in the study and didn't account for people who had to quit booze for health reasons ending up in the 'Zero drinks' category, skewing the health outcomes.

In any case, it kinda sucks that I like the taste of whisky and fancy beers, so something I enjoy is by nature bad for me at any level. Fun! I guess fortunately I hate being drunk and at my age it takes very little to get hungover (and hangovers suuuuck worse) so that does help motivate me to avoid much consumption.

So I do try to just keep my weekly intake below ~5 drinks (units, so a fancy tasty DIPA is like 1.5 - 2 drinks). Don't always succeed, but I feel it's a good compromise of enjoying life without noticeably changing my health risks.

My argument is I don't judge anyone who drinks, that would be throwing rocks in glass houses as an addict who regularly relapses, and I respect that a lot of people can moderate to such levels.

But this article sort of vindicates my feelings on why "drinking culture" is pretty bullshit. When the movie Supersize Me came out, culturally we came down on the fast food industry like a ton of bricks, yet it came to light that Spurlock was a crippling alcoholic, and all the symptoms he listed in the movie as being related to eating McDonald's for a month just happened to be symptoms related to acute alcohol withdrawal. We turn a blind eye towards the alcohol industry while we scrutinise McDonald's for literally symptoms related to alcohol withdrawal, because as a wider culture we don't like admitting how bad it actually is.
 

DarkChronic

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,212
I've made a lot of progress myself over the past few years. I was not a drinker by any means until COVID hit. When we all started working from home, I would typically have a glass of whiskey after work because of how stressed the entire situation made me. 1 drink became 2 most nights and soon I was having 1-2 glasses a night every week.

At first I was fine with it, it was my way of dealing with a stressful situation. I didnt notice any different side effects until I started getting terrible heartburn and bowel irritation (constipation and bloating).

It took me a long while but I've cut down to 0-1 drinks a week. Every other week, I'll enjoy a glass on a Saturday evening. Going from ~14 a week to 1 every other week was huge progress for me. My heartburn and stomach issues disappear when I don't drink.
 

zou

Member
Oct 29, 2017
777
Even defining those that "only" have up to 14 drinks a week as low-volume is ridiculous. The CDC defines heavy drinking as 8+ drinks for women and 15+ drinks for men (both weekly), lol.