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Mike Ybarra thinks there should be an option to tip developers when you've finished a game
- Thread starter Bishop89
- Start date
Rude much?
I happen to agree that I have a much better idea of how much a game was worth to me after playing it than before. With the mediocre reviews I wound up buying Bard's Tale IV on sale for $6 or something absurd years after the fact, and would gladly have tipped several times that after playing it. On the other hand, I was skeptical enough to buy Fallout 4 for $20 and still felt ripped off. Reviews can only do so much to tell the story of whether a game will delight and inspire me or feel tired within a few hours.
Everyone's financial circumstances differ, and a "pay what it's worth to you" model is probably doomed from the outset because so many come in with an attitude that only suckers would voluntarily pay more than the absolute minimum you can get away with – but I often tip artists because they generally make a pittance for their work, and it's meaningful to me.
this is a wildly different situation though, nobody minds tipping an artist that made great work for you
but in this situation here A) would the money most likely not go to the artists but fill the pockets of executives and shareholders and B) even if it actually went to the developers it would just become another way for management to pay actual developers less
there ist just no way that in todays greed and mismanagement in this industry this could turn out into anything positive for the people who would deserve it
I've bought SLARPG like 3 times just to support the dev because a lesbian furry rpg is the best idea ever, so I would totally do this for games that I really truly loved, like Deltarune (Have official merch) Ace attorney (have official merch), Paleo Pines (don't have merch yet), and other cool smaller games. No way in hell I'd ever tip someone like Sony though unless they brought back Sly Raccoon. and also to echo what everyone else is sayig, of course publishers would abuse it.
You can make the same argument for buying games, renting games, game subscriptions, etc. If the premise is that the entire industry is going to grind developers into the ground then you're pretty much screwed regardless. I prefer to believe that, given better options to more directly support games that appeal, consumers will have a more direct impact on what it is that developers decide to devote their efforts to.
It's one of the reasons that subscriptions don't appeal in the least – it creates more levels of indirection between what I value and who gets paid to practice their craft. More middle management and executive mismanagement is likely to occur when I'm less directly able to support a developer. It's part of the reason I go out of my way to find and support indie productions right now. That's why games like I Was A Teenage Exocolonist, Stray Gods: A Roleplaying Musical, and even Baldur's Gate 3 are the sorts of productions in which I see hope for the future of gaming. Even Marvel's Midnight Suns with its obvious ties to mega-corporation IP was something I was happy to buy at full price when it launched, because it was clearly a passion project for so many who were involved.
Isn't that what DLC is for?
If I love a game, give me the option to pay a little for a little more.
If I love a game, give me the option to pay a little for a little more.
You know Mike you really should've thought more about keeping your mouth shut. What a horrible idea. As if there isn't enough overpriced crap in our games as it is. $70 for a game, $50 or more sometimes for a season pass, even more for MTX, and now he wants us to give them another $10 or $20 for a tip? Just absurd
Yeah, the thing in America where people in service jobs don't even get minimum wage and have to work for tips sucks. Up here in Canada and most of the world they still get minimum wage and you can chip in a few extra bucks if you think you got good service. I think that's fine, and I imagine that's basically what Ybarra was advocating. I doubt he was saying devs shouldn't be paid a proper base salary.
I think the responsibility of fair pay for developers is up to managers and executives and not consumers, Mike!
In theory, if a developer is under a publisher, the publisher is going to get some unknown percent of each individual sale, not to mention things like engine fees, taxes, and platform cuts like Steam's.
You can buy the game again for somebody if you really liked it and want to support the developer, true. But the publisher would benefit significantly as well. A direct tip line would more directly support the developer, although there could potentially be a legal claim that the funds earned through any game, credit, or storepage-directed tip jar would still count as revenue of the game, and therefore still subject to publisher fees.
You can buy the game again for somebody if you really liked it and want to support the developer, true. But the publisher would benefit significantly as well. A direct tip line would more directly support the developer, although there could potentially be a legal claim that the funds earned through any game, credit, or storepage-directed tip jar would still count as revenue of the game, and therefore still subject to publisher fees.
Tipping needs to go away period. It shouldn't be on the customer to pay the employee a livable wage. It should be on the company that employee works for.
I wouldn't trust a large company like Ubisoft to actually pass on any tips to the staff that developed a game. And indeed, for larger games with 1000s of people involved, you wouldn't imagine any given developer would get much of a share from a small tip anyhow...
That said, small indie developers should absolutely encourage people to donate, e.g., a Patreon, Ko-Fi or encourage offering more for a game on Itch.
That said, small indie developers should absolutely encourage people to donate, e.g., a Patreon, Ko-Fi or encourage offering more for a game on Itch.
Going to go against the grain here - I don't think that would be unreasonable. People are up in arms because he used the term "tip", but I don't think that's any different than donating to content creators. It'd also be entirely optional without any pressure whatsoever, since it'd be anonymous. In other words, I think it's a lot more comparable to the non-American version of tipping (when you think someone went above and beyond) than the American version (essentially mandatory with possible repercussions when you don't tip). Maybe I'm not as cynical as the majority of people here.
Things are not black and white though. I don't necessarily disagree that it would be hard to trust a developer like Ubisoft, but there's a wide swath of situations between Ubisoft and that one guy creating a game in his spare time. Which ones of those deserve donations (whether through Patreon or directly in game) and which ones do not? Where do you draw the line? I'll take Larian as an example - it's an independent studio that put out an amazing game. As far as I know, it's also a great place to work at and they pay their developers fairly. I'd have zero issues with giving them a little bonus.
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No, put prices up if its necessary to keep a company in business. I don't mind variable prices... but get wrecked with tipping culture and who exactly does the money go to when hundreds of people contributed to a game?
Tips are dumb and its better to just pay eveyone better.
Tips are dumb and its better to just pay eveyone better.
Hell No
Give US more if we actually get a platinum or equivalent, since that is just a waste of time mostly. Some avatar or background would be ok. Something
Give US more if we actually get a platinum or equivalent, since that is just a waste of time mostly. Some avatar or background would be ok. Something
Hell nah to the nah to the nah. You wanna tip then just buy a copy for a friend. But shut up advocating this crap.
I purchased takeout tonight (at a chain) and went to pick it up myself. I had to go through like three screens when I paid via debit to refuse the tip. I'm a generous tipper. I always tip when I get delivery, get a cab, go to a restaurant and eat-in, stay at a hotel and get my luggage brought up as well as for room service, etc, but I'm not going to tip for someone to hand me a bag. If they don't like it, I'll step behind the counter and get the bag myself.
As for tipping when I finish games? Hell no. They're already just under $100 here in Canada. If I like a game, I'll give it as a gift to a friend or family member but that's about it.
As for tipping when I finish games? Hell no. They're already just under $100 here in Canada. If I like a game, I'll give it as a gift to a friend or family member but that's about it.
I like gifting smaller indie games I've loved to friends on Steam, tipping AAA publishers is fucking ludicrous.
Yeah tipping culture can absolutely do one. It's an awful Americanism that's an excuse for not paying staff well.
Direct tip line set up by publisher of the game... I mean I can't see how anything but a tiny percentage of that goes to any actual devs - it would basically be like Spotify cheques for musicians, 0.00025c and before long the publisher would set up a tip threshold where they don't pay anything out if it doesn't get a certain amount of tips... if you're a smaller indie company where the devs own the company together, I suspect something like a patreon where fans can get behind the scenes insight/pre-release footage/dev diaries etc... is more useful than a "tip jar" anyway
There have got to be better ways of directly supporting the individual developers rather than introducing a broken American tipping system into an industry that doesn't need it and shouldn't use since all the proceeds would go to the publisher anyway.
Probably the same place it would go towards even if the devs weren't fired / laid off. The publisher/ business owners.
