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Vinc

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,387
That is not what the the word niche means...

Is iOS niche to you?
I'm not saying it is a niche product. I'm saying it's MORE of a niche product than the PS4 is. Closer to achieving the status of being a niche product.

In any case, I think I've explained this enough. If you truly don't understand what I mean up to this point, I don't know what to tell you or how to help you.
 

Deleted member 4044

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,121
I believe this was the whole reason they developed the XBox One X. They saw the huge engagement among the hardcore XBox base and also knew that these players wanted more horsepower.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,496
North Carolina
Why does every Xbox/Microsoft thread turn into a shit show of fanboyism?

I honestly don't know why I scroll past the first post anymore.

Anyway, on the subject at hand, it's nice to see that Nadella seems optimistic and committed to gaming. Will be curious to see the fruits of their labor over the next few years.
Did you really expect another outcome when said topic is specifically focusing on a comment that is 100% fanboy fuel? (Not to say that TC's intention was to incite those type of reactions on the first page)
 

melodiousmowl

Member
Jan 14, 2018
3,774
CT
Are there some ARPU / time spent / some kind of investment metrics available per console?

As much as this info is being ridiculed, I think I remember having read (some time after this generation started) that the average Xbox user is comparatively more invested / "engaged" -i.e., plays and spends more on the platform- than, at least, the average Playstation user. Were I to use my known gamers as a sample, I would confirm that hypothesis: people I know who play on Xbox are relatively older, spend more, and play more frequently / for longer periods than those who do it on Playstation.

Put some $ in MS stock to find out? =)
 

D65

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,862
I'm not saying it is a niche product. I'm saying it's MORE of a niche product than the PS4 is. Closer to achieving the status of being a niche product.

In any case, I think I've explained this enough. If you truly don't understand what I mean up to this point, I don't know what to tell you or how to help you.

Okay

iOS is closer to being niche than Android, I think I understand you...

*sigh*
 

Hellshy

Member
Nov 5, 2017
1,170
I mean, with all due respect, it's now just starting to sound like there's always some "excuse" for why Xbox players seem to spend more. So it'll only "count" if Microsoft is the market leader and absolutely everything else is equal then?

Its not an excuse . They dont spend more. Playstation gamers as a whole spend more.
Unless someone can show me how cbox games dividion is making more money?
 

Deleted member 43

Account closed at user request
Banned
Oct 24, 2017
9,271
Sure, but even then it had more engagement than on Ps3, no? Stuff like each person buying more games, and spending more time/money on games they purchased.

What I mean to say is that, I don't think it's just having a hardcore userbase, there's something inherent to them that makes the users spend more (the ads perhaps?)
It had higher overall spend, and certainly higher engagement earlier in the gen (don't really remember the average across the whole generation).

What you have to keep in mind here is that the 360 user base does not map directly to the One user base. There was a lot of defection to the PS4, among lots of other factors that make "the 360 was like this, so the XBO should be the same" statements not really apply.

But for a third time, yeah, I think there is something in the core XB fane base that leads to a higher average spend, but by far the main driver of the engagement gap is the difference in user base.
 
Oct 27, 2017
5,345
User warned: Read the thread, don't console war
That's a lot of buzzwords just to say absolutely nothing.

Feel kind of bad for the PR guys, the kind of bullshit they need to come up with in order to do their jobs, I don't think they're having a good time.

Microsoft, we need games. You're not going to convince anybody until we see those games.
 

Vinc

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,387
Okay

iOS is closer to being niche than Android, I think I understand you...

*sigh*

You got it! I'm surprised you only *think* you understand this.

You can't assign a number to the word niche. Something is niche in relation to other things. The entire video game market could be considered a niche if you compare it to something bigger. It's relative. You're free to disagree and assign an arbitrary number to the word niche, but you'd just be wrong.
 

Hellshy

Member
Nov 5, 2017
1,170
It had higher overall spend, and certainly higher engagement earlier in the gen (don't really remember the average across the whole generation).

What you have to keep in mind here is that the 360 user base does not map directly to the One user base. There was a lot of defection to the PS4, among lots of other factors that make "the 360 was like this, so the XBO should be the same" statements not really apply.

But for a third time, yeah, I think there is something in the core XB fane base that leads to a higher average spend, but by far the main driver of the engagement gap is the difference in user base.

Maybe im missing something here but with the main driver being the user base difference how can you even determine that the core xbox gan spends more thsn the core playstation fan?
 

Deleted member 43

Account closed at user request
Banned
Oct 24, 2017
9,271
Maybe im missing something here but with the main driver being the user base difference how can you even determine that the core xbox gan spends more thsn the core playstation fan?
Ancillary data, a closer examination of buying trends for early adapters, and intuition.

Also, I said "I think" because it's an educated guess.
 

Felix Lighter

Member
Oct 25, 2017
141
You got it! I'm surprised you only *think* you understand this.

You can't assign a number to the word niche. Something is niche in relation to other things. The entire video game market could be considered a niche if you compare it to something bigger. It's relative. You're free to disagree and assign an arbitrary number to the word niche, but you'd just be wrong.

Ha ha what? Any product that sells to 10s of millions of people is not niche by any stretch of the definition.
 

Lukas Taves

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
5,713
Brazil
It had higher overall spend, and certainly higher engagement earlier in the gen (don't really remember the average across the whole generation).

What you have to keep in mind here is that the 360 user base does not map directly to the One user base. There was a lot of defection to the PS4, among lots of other factors that make "the 360 was like this, so the XBO should be the same" statements not really apply.


But for a third time, yeah, I think there is something in the core XB fane base that leads to a higher average spend, but by far the main driver of the engagement gap is the difference in user base.
I wasn't trying to map, quite the opposite, I wanted to say the difference is mostly because of the platform itself, not the user base, something that Ms does on their consoles that leads people to spend more there.
 

Deleted member 896

User Requested Account Deletion
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Oct 25, 2017
2,353
That's a lot of buzzwords just to say absolutely nothing.

Feel kind of bad for the PR guys, the kind of bullshit they need to come up with in order to do their jobs, I don't think they're having a good time.

Microsoft, we need games. You're not going to convince anybody until we see those games.

Just to be clear here you understand that the context here is that this was an investor Q&A and not a gamers' expo (or whatever) right?
 

Hellshy

Member
Nov 5, 2017
1,170
Ancillary data, a closer examination of buying trends for early adapters, and intuition.

Also, I said "I think" because it's an educated guess.

Okay fair enough. Would it be safe to assume its not a huge difference hence the reason the higher user base being the bigger driver?
 

Deleted member 43

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Oct 24, 2017
9,271
I wasn't trying to map, quite the opposite, I wanted to say the difference is mostly because of the platform itself, not the user base, something that Ms does on their consoles that leads people to spend more there.
The difference is mostly a result of the user base size. That's not to say there aren't other factors that play some part (as I have said again and again, I think there are).
 

TheZynster

Member
Oct 26, 2017
13,285
Do they have numbers on average price per consumer spent on GaaS compared to PS4?

They have to if they are stating this correct? I remember Ubisoft actually the last couple years had data stating console spot, sales and MTX spendage
 

melodiousmowl

Member
Jan 14, 2018
3,774
CT
Of course things like region and other factors going to effect that data also.
I think regional differences are a part of it - but is there really any point in dissembling when you are talking to investors? The point being - you can make stats tell any story, but if there are people with the data to see that your case is, lets say, weak, is it worth saying at all?

EDIT - This is a genuine question. I would think it would be dangerous but then again, it's not an area I have any real experience in.
 

Vinc

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,387
Ha ha what? Any product that sells to 10s of millions of people is not niche by any stretch of the definition.
I dunno, if we were talking about a type of food or something I think you could safely say it is, relative to the size of the market, yes. But since we're talking about video games, yeah I agree, the Xbox One isn't a niche product by any means, just less popular. I've said that probably 4 times already, so how about we just move on from this?

In any case, I don't think there's anything particularly surprising about this information, nor is there anything wrong with Nadella saying this. I don't think it's PR spin, I think it's just a true statement that isn't particularly surprising. So at this point I don't know what else there is to debate, as evidenced by the shift to talking about semantics and crazy hypothetical scenarios.
 

BDubsLegend

Banned
Jan 24, 2018
1,027
Didn't Xbox have higher digital engagement last gen too? I don't think it's because it's less average users. Xbox caters to multi-player gamers. I have a PS4 and I only turn it own when a good exclusive is out, so far that's only been Horizon, Nier, Last of us Remaster and God of war. By simply playing multi-player I'm engaged with my Xbox more and I buy my digital games on Xbox because I feel they are more likely to respect my digital library come next gen.
 

Deleted member 43

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Oct 24, 2017
9,271

borges

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
1,668
Argentina
God jesus some people getting triggered here.
On topic, two things: Reread OP, Matt comment sums up perfectly fine the thing.
Second, most of xbox users are in US, where players spend on avg much more than the rest of the world. It just makes sense.
 

melodiousmowl

Member
Jan 14, 2018
3,774
CT
Didn't Xbox have higher digital engagement last gen too? I don't think it's because it's less average users. Xbox caters to multi-player gamers. I have a PS4 and I only turn it own when a good exclusive is out, so far that's only been Horizon, Nier, Last of us Remaster and God of war. By simply playing multi-player I'm engaged with my Xbox more and I buy my digital games on Xbox because I feel they are more likely to respect my digital library come next gen.

That's a factor. I think it can also encompass things like how many games a user buys, other kinds of purchases, etc. It's a good set of data to have if the data is positive and you use it to keep investors and 3rd parties happy.
 

Abylim

Member
Oct 29, 2017
5,023
Australia
Hmm I'm not too sure but I'd say Nadela is in a better position to know than you?

So you don't know either but still thought you should defend it. Ok

Edit: for the record I'd agree that he would know more but without them giving us numbers or it being feasible they'd have Sony's numbers I just can't see how this is anything people can get behind?
I'm happy to be corrected though.

Second Edit: re read the op with matts info
It helps
 
Last edited:
Oct 27, 2017
1,496
North Carolina
I thought it was Gearbox that shot them down. Was there more from Spencer?
Someone asked him on Twitter about the marketing exclusivity and he replied with a no. Trying to find the chain.

There was a "leak" (unknown how accurate) that gave exclusive games coming out (a new Fable and Perfect Dark to name a couple)
Ah, I did completely forgot about this one. Definitely keeping an eye on E3 and hopefully we get some direct confirmation either way.
 

gundamkyoukai

Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,105
God jesus some people getting triggered here.
On topic, two things: Reread OP, Matt comment sums up perfectly fine the thing.
Second, most of xbox users are in US, where players spend on avg much more than the rest of the world. It just makes sense.

You really can't say that is the case and funny enough since the USA player base so big it could bring down average compare to other countries .
 

watdaeff4

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,451
Ah, I did completely forgot about this one. Definitely keeping an eye on E3 and hopefully we get some direct confirmation either way.
There is a lot of smoke around Fable/Playground games so I believe that particular one. Not to derail, but I'm skeptical about the rest of the leak being 100% accurate. If so though, damn it's a pretty enticing lineup
 

xolsec

Member
Feb 18, 2018
1,685
No surprises, specially on how they focus on services and monetization of such services.

I wouldn't brag about though, given how things are right now.
 

borges

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
1,668
Argentina
You really can't say that is the case and funny enough since the USA player base so big it could bring down average compare to other countries .

Not really. Consider that the avg salary of an american is nearly 5 times the avg of Argentina, being Argentina the country with highest salaries in south american region. Talking about the region where i live and know.
 
Oct 27, 2017
5,345
Just to be clear here you understand that the context here is that this was an investor Q&A and not a gamers' expo (or whatever) right?
Yes I've read the OP, I know they need to convince the investors that Xbox is the way to go because somehow they get the most engagement in that platform. And I believe you get engagement from releasing new exciting content. Does it matter if you can get more of every user if most of them are on other platforms spending that money?

Sorry if it came across a little bit console warriorish.
 

watdaeff4

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,451
I wouldn't brag about though, given how things are right now.
You do realize though it wasn't "bragging" it was during an investor Q&A?

And your sarcasm is hilariously ironic as to the eyes of the board and investors, "how things are right now" is very good. But keep fighting that fight
 

gundamkyoukai

Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,105
Not really. Consider that the avg salary of an american is nearly 5 times the avg of Argentina, being Argentina the country with highest salaries in south american region. Talking about the region where i live and know.

Who said anything about Argentina ?
If we use a country like the UK that has smaller base than usa but a certain number of hardcore the average would be higher there.