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Complicated

Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,339
Cool. Sounds like interesting things are on the horizon. Hard to believe classic halo on PC would be big when every other arena shooter is dead on PC and even this new fan rip has minimal interest. Still cool that MCC might make it's way there though.
 

zychi

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
4,064
Chicago
Maybe but they're not the worst Dev in the industry, not even close.
Can you give me some example of who you think is worse and has a track record of fans being upset with the franchise release after release of one of the biggest franchises that are actively being worked on?

My only other example would be Konami as a whole, but they couldn't legally keep Kojima from making new games.
 

Fahzzy

Self-Requested Ban
Banned
Jan 21, 2018
1,079
This is why I didn't even bother to play the mod and I'm probably one of the most hardcore Halo fans on this site. I just knew this would happen. It's only logical for them to do this.
 

zychi

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
4,064
Chicago
Those pics are deliberately deceptive meant to stoke flames. Nothing more.
The image itself is from a Twitter thread that Ninja, a once big Halo player,(who you all probably know as the Fortnite guy who played with Drake now, complaining about the venue size and blaming Halo, not ESL for the venue. I'm just a Halo fan, Ninja was the esport Halo guy at the time.

edit: to get this thread back on track, what MS/343 are doing for their IP in dealing with Dewrito is fine to me, it's their IP. I don't like what Halo has become and what MS/343 have been doing with the IP either.
 

enMTW

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
894
The people involved in the creation of the Halo Online modification have been here before. This is no one's first rodeo. Quoting from the ElDewrito website: "ElDewrito was created through the hard work of well known Halo fans, developers and modders like DEElekgolo, Gamecheat13, Lord Zedd and many others"

Gamecheat13 has received more cease and desists than anyone I have ever met - he was involved in thefts and leaks of Modern Warfare 3 and Black Ops 2 content from PartnerNet. He also hung around the 'Xbox Underground' crew responsible for a lot of the nonsense that was happening at the start of the generation (https://www.wired.com/story/xbox-underground-videogame-hackers/). A genuinely bad person, time hasn't changed him in the slightest.

More recently, he used flaws in the Windows 10 Store to download a build of Halo Wars 2 that was intended for external testing partners, pull plot information out of the build and attempt to extort Microsoft with it. Later, he attempted to sell the build to the public at large. I can go on and on with increasingly recent examples of shithead behavior - he revealed the existence of a Steam/Win32 port of Halo Wars: DE, which he knew about definitely by legal means and not at all by playing around with the game's backend services.

Lord Zedd was involved in various questionably legal (not at all legal) Halo stuff. He acquired 360 developer hardware and used that hardware to screw around with Halo. Not exactly legal to seek out hardware for which you have no authorization to obtain, pirate a game and decrypt it so it runs on developer hardware, take said game onto PartnerNet and modify it. Also not a huge deal - no harm, no foul - but this is a way of saying that these people knew they would be flying close to the sun and flew anyway.

Considering how some of the people involved have been thorns in Microsoft's side for a long time, the way that Microsoft has treated this matter strikes me as generous, considerate even. An early build of a Russia only title that would later be cancelled was stolen; pulled from the companies web services. The build was not intended to be accessible by the outside world. Said build was an early development build. It contained a lot of Halo 3 content (the Russia only title was not a port of Halo 3). Immediately, the worst people start hacking on it. Years pass. The result is, of course, Halo 3 multiplayer, hacked together to mostly function.

The act is illegal in every way. It's not even a modification of a public build of the Russian title. There are assets ripped from Halo 3 360 included in ElDewrito - the maps used are from the early build of Halo Online but certain other assets were pulled by the modders from the Halo 3 360. There was no serious attempt to operate inside the confines of the law. These are people who routinely do illegal Xbox shit doing more illegal Xbox shit, just this time for an audience.
 
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Izayoi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
828
Well, it was fun while it lasted.

Over 8000 active players tonight while I was on. I would LOVE to get active player counts for Halo 5, but I imagine that data will never see the light of day.

Halo 3 looks absolutely gorgeous on PC and it plays like a dream on both KB/M and controller.

I'm really worried that ultimately the official solution will be a complete technical disaster on PC, just like the other Play Anywhere titles (see: Gears of War and Forza). Windows 10 Store is an absolute nightmare and I'm not looking forward to the hoops that we will be required to jump through. I imagine there will be little to no mod support and it will be completely locked down from a code standpoint, with Forge as the only outlet for community content creators.

Partially I'm trying to expect the worst (other than the absolute worst of just straight up no classic Halo on PC) so that I can't be crushed by disappointment when the final product comes out... I'd love to be proven wrong, but it REALLY sucks that this is getting shut down.
 

Kthulhu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,670
Can you give me some example of who you think is worse and has a track record of fans being upset with the franchise release after release of one of the biggest franchises that are actively being worked on?

My only other example would be Konami as a whole, but they couldn't legally keep Kojima from making new games.

EA, Activision, and as you mentioned Konami are all infinitely worse in that regard. Hell Bungie themselves have been pissing people off years now with Destiny.

If we're talking just bad game companies I can make that list even longer. To me the worst things 343 has done is the condescending PR about microtransactions and MCC coming out busted (though at least they're trying to fix it which most companies would never do) 343 hasn't done much.
 

Aztechnology

Community Resettler
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
14,139
Microsoft genuinely has to protect their IP here, there's no choice. IP law if you lax up and let things like this go officially, would make it a nightmare. I genuinely feel like they want players to have this, they just can't do it this way. The best outcome would be for Microsoft to Hire the team/"Purchase" the work and improve upon it.
 

Sargerus

▲ Legend ▲
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
20,849
I played only a few matches but man i was so happy playing Halo 3 again.
 

ImperatorPat

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,461
USA
You should probably clarify this is not confirmed but I am hopeful.

All I ask is that when they do they provide an FoV slider. That's all I need. Just give me that. Support for over 60fps and ultra wide would be sweeeeeet but at least git me an FoV slider.
Yeah that was written a little too definitively. Edited, thanks.
 

Quample

Member
Dec 23, 2017
3,231
Cincinnati, OH
Microsoft should have shut it down earlier instead of letting us taste the sweet flesh of some of the best pieces of Halo combined. The game is an HD 60fps Halo 3 with a sprinkle of 2 and 4 (mainly visuals). But they actually okayed the project before .6.
 

Twentieth

Member
Oct 26, 2017
373
Microsoft should have shut it down earlier instead of letting us taste the sweet flesh of some of the best pieces of Halo combined. The game is an HD 60fps Halo 3 with a sprinkle of 2 and 4 (mainly visuals). But they actually okayed the project before .6.

That's the saddest thing. MS would never let this go on, sure, but what we got was just so, so good and MS will never be able to deliver that to PC gamers, ever.
 

Ominym

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,068
Microsoft has to protect its IP no matter the context. I get it, it sucks for the community, but I get it.

Given Frankie's post, I'd be willing to bet 343i gets it too. I hope this small test goes on to be a talking point within the office and maybe we see more official progress on the franchise in the future.
 

Izayoi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
828
I played only a few matches but man i was so happy playing Halo 3 again.
Yeah, and it's beautiful on PC with everything cranked. Some cool stuff in here that I hadn't seen previously, as well.
screenshot-2018.04.24i0ob3.jpg

screenshot-2018.04.2410qp7.jpg

Compression did a number on these, but in-game it's like playing the bullshot.
 

Railgun

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,148
Australia
As long as MCC comes to PC later this year or early next year with all the fixes, FOV slider, customs browser and a file browser for customs I'll be happy.
 

DjDeathCool

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,641
Bismarck, ND
Microsoft genuinely has to protect their IP here, there's no choice. IP law if you lax up and let things like this go officially, would make it a nightmare. I genuinely feel like they want players to have this, they just can't do it this way. The best outcome would be for Microsoft to Hire the team/"Purchase" the work and improve upon it.

....and even then they have a legal obligation to their share holders to make sure those assets were sold at a fair industry price which would be far above and beyond anything a small team of modders would be able to afford. I think they did the best thing they could have given the circumstance. Would be great to see this story end with a happy ending and see 343 or Microsoft recruit some of the talented individuals on the team.

Edit: Wow, I'm dumb. I read your post backwards. Ugh. We're saying the same thing. NOTHING TO SEE HERE FOLKS MOVE ALONG.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,631
i find it interesting that there are maps in Halo Online that we will never get to play. Diamondback, Edge, and Reactor. along with a far superior Forge mode.

and armor designs and variants
 

Aaronmac

Member
Nov 12, 2017
554
As long as MCC comes to PC later this year or early next year with all the fixes, FOV slider, customs browser and a file browser for customs I'll be happy.

Those, and an unlocked framerate. I know it's a pipedream, but man that would be total bliss. That's the one thing about El Dewrito that I actually am not a fan of; the locked 60 fps which is definitely an engine shortcoming.
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,454
Some of the replies to this thread are ridiculous and just advocating stealing.

I don't care how cool the game looked or how it played. If you steal someone's IP then be prepared for the consequences. They are lucky MS haven't filed a lawsuit which they'd easily win. Yet somehow MS are painted as the bad guys in all this.
 

enMTW

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
894
Some of the replies to this thread are ridiculous and just advocating stealing.

I don't care how cool the game looked or how it played. If you steal someone's IP then be prepared for the consequences. They are lucky MS haven't filed a lawsuit which they'd easily win. Yet somehow MS are painted as the bad guys in all this.

Yeah. People at MS are going out of their way to deal with this as gently as possible, and people who are not aware of the history/have an understanding of the law involved are asking for crazy things. When I read people encouraging Microsoft to hire the people behind this mod I don't know if I should be laughing or crying.

ElDewrito was never never going to survive it's first encounter with real press attention. This was inevitable. That MS is DMCAing the stolen MS23 build of Halo Online and not the modification itself (to say nothing of suing the people involved in the creation of the mod) is as generous as it gets.
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,454
Also port begging for MCC.

Well the reason MCC hasn't been out on PC because it is broken. So why release it broken on another platform? They need to fix it first on Xbox before even thinking about doing a PC release. Which makes sense.

Once all the updates come out for it on Xbox and hopefully it is fixed then most likely a PC release would make sense.
 

enMTW

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
894

FUNKNOWN iXi

▲ Legend ▲
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
9,596
Can you give me some example of who you think is worse and has a track record of fans being upset with the franchise release after release of one of the biggest franchises that are actively being worked on?

My only other example would be Konami as a whole, but they couldn't legally keep Kojima from making new games.
Bungie
 

Last_colossi

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
4,253
Australia
It was such an awesome project but this is completely understandable and expected, at least now Microsoft are aware of how passionate PC players are about Halo.
 

Cranster

Prophet of Truth
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,788
I'm fine with this, theft is theft and they are lucky Microsoft don't sue their asses!

These aren't modders that can be partnered with. It's a nice thing to say for PR reasons, but there are blocking issues. Like one of the core members of the team being permanently banned from Xbox Live for attempting to sell a build of Halo Wars 2 that said person stole prior to the games release.

https://www.resetera.com/threads/mi...ito-halo-online-mod.38406/page-5#post-7165227

Yeah that guy was an idiot, literally tried to blackmail Microsoft even though he got himself in shit!
 

Yeezus

Member
Nov 27, 2017
86
It was truly a treat to play Halo 3(ish) again, and from a terminal no less! While MS obviously has to protect their IP and assets, as a fan of what I guess could now be considered "classic" Halo, this feels disheartening to say the least. With MCC having been a bit of a mess from the get-go, and the more recent series iterations proving to be a mixed bag (as expected), a solid PC option would no doubt be well received. Hopefully, if nothing else, this proves that demand is high and that patience is thin.
 

lupianwolf

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,319
User Warned: History of drive-by, platform-wars rhetoric.
When aren't Microsoft disappointing their fans?.
 

Aztechnology

Community Resettler
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
14,139
....and even then they have a legal obligation to their share holders to make sure those assets were sold at a fair industry price which would be far above and beyond anything a small team of modders would be able to afford. I think they did the best thing they could have given the circumstance. Would be great to see this story end with a happy ending and see 343 or Microsoft recruit some of the talented individuals on the team.

Edit: Wow, I'm dumb. I read your post backwards. Ugh. We're saying the same thing. NOTHING TO SEE HERE FOLKS MOVE ALONG.
Haha, no sweat. You flushed it out more anyway.
 

Rᴏb

Banned
Feb 24, 2018
56
NYC
Microsoft should take this as a sign that they need to start making good Halo games again. Some modders were able to turn an incomplete beta test into a better Halo than the past 3 ones they made themselves. I've had more fun with this game than I've ever had with a 343i Halo game.
 

enMTW

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
894
Your passion feels misplaced. You're not Mr. Halo, so why are you so emotionally invested in people modding this?

Well, the build in question was never intended to be public - it was stolen by people guessing the URL to part of the (as of the the time in question, unreleased) client's update system and finding the url to the current development version of the game client inside. The build was then pulled. At least that's how I remember it, it's been a while but that rings true to me.

This is where we start - a non-public build is 'acquired' and spread publicly by those responsible. This is just the start of the crazy, illegal behavior that would follow.

So, with that in mind, I suspect most people would object to the means by which ElDewrito was created and to the conduct of the people responsible.