I'm somewhat sad I did not pick up a 4K TV with HDR for this. It's time.
Don't feel too bad, this isn't the game to really experience HDR with.
I'm somewhat sad I did not pick up a 4K TV with HDR for this. It's time.
So what I've finding is that for the bulk of gameplay the image sits in a very similar range of luminance to SDR content, VERY bright in game objects such as the Sun and explosions seem to peak at approx 700 nits and of course this is seen in lower values in specular highlights.
I've caught a couple of pixels in the centre of particle effects reaching higher values, but these have been super rare.
This is often the way that many UHD 4K discs are mastered, as either the content itself was created with HDR in mind or the HDR master of the disc is deliberately trying not to deviate from the directors SDR vision for the movie.
Blade Runner 2049 is an example of this as well as many older films that have had 4K releases
It may be that later on in the game, when certain other effects such as electricity become more visible, that we see more of these higher values.
On the plus side, the fairly low dynamic range that the main game is using will give a very familiar filmic vibe, which may well be intentional given the type of game it is.
The game also readily outputs near black data, not raising the blacks and tinting them to give them teal movie shadows.
The main issue that this approach will give for some users is that certain common models of HDR TVs are expecting videogame content to be 4000nits, so when presented with content such as this that has significantly lower peak brightness code values, the TV will hold back , reserving it's peak brightness output for high values of data, which of course it never receives, resulting in a dim image.
No game to data to date has produced metadata to stop this happening, however I will check this later too, in case Sony have open up some extra tools in the SDK.
Yes, let's move on. Blocking the user (first time I've used it here and it works well) in question and will continue as usual. Not worth engaging trolls.
Anyways, regarding HDR.
I agree with Boris as well. On the LG C8, I do feel it looks noticeably better in HDR but it's use is still fairly limited. On the older B6, it can appear dim for the reasons he's noted.
Anyway to check what your TV expects the nit value to be? Hoping it looks good on my ks8000
Anyway to check what your TV expects the nit value to be? Hoping it looks good on my ks8000
Industry is still moving up the HDR learning curve. Some of the Netflix shows are like when you would waggle a pole into the screen to show of stereoscopic 3d. I have a Sony OLED, and sometimes it actually hurts to look at the screen. I have 0 problems with developers erring on the side of caution.
I have my dynamic contrast set to medium for HDR anyway as I've been told it acts differently than when SDR is playing. I definitely feels it improves the image on HDR while it makes SDR content worseI've got the same display, it mostly just treats the output 1:1 and then ignores the highlights beyond a certain point. It shouldn't be an issue for you, however it may be a game where you wish to engage a little bit of dynamic contrast, which will try and expande the output a little further
I have my dynamic contrast set to medium for HDR anyway as I've been told it acts differently than when SDR is playing. I definitely feels it improves the image on HDR while it makes SDR content worse
So what I've finding is that for the bulk of gameplay the image sits in a very similar range of luminance to SDR content, VERY bright in game objects such as the Sun and explosions seem to peak at approx 700 nits and of course this is seen in lower values in specular highlights.
I've caught a couple of pixels in the centre of particle effects reaching higher values, but these have been super rare.
This is often the way that many UHD 4K discs are mastered, as either the content itself was created with HDR in mind or the HDR master of the disc is deliberately trying not to deviate from the directors SDR vision for the movie.
Blade Runner 2049 is an example of this as well as many older films that have had 4K releases
It may be that later on in the game, when certain other effects such as electricity become more visible, that we see more of these higher values.
On the plus side, the fairly low dynamic range that the main game is using will give a very familiar filmic vibe, which may well be intentional given the type of game it is.
The game also readily outputs near black data, not raising the blacks and tinting them to give them teal movie shadows.
The main issue that this approach will give for some users is that certain common models of HDR TVs are expecting videogame content to be 4000nits, so when presented with content such as this that has significantly lower peak brightness code values, the TV will hold back , reserving it's peak brightness output for high values of data, which of course it never receives, resulting in a dim image.
No game to data to date has produced metadata to stop this happening, however I will check this later too, in case Sony have open up some extra tools in the SDK.
Don't feel too bad, this isn't the game to really experience HDR with.
Do you always insult anyone who posts anything that you don't like?
I mean, I'm not the one who said there's no performance difference between a potentially 4k parallax corrected cubemap versus a generic 128 cubemap.
If only you took your own advice.
Lol people one by one counting the number of explosions like the sesame street guy in part of an old E3 video as a way to judge the technical achievement of the full game. I'ma count the number of explosions in that Detroit demo btw.
I suggest anyone having doubts to check out the era photography thread because it looks fantastic.
We still only have a handful of HDR capable displays at our studio, so the content is authored and lit on normal displays, and then there's a HDR pass at the end. Would not be surprised if the same is true at Insomniac. Or at least, was true for the majority of production. Hopefully the price of HDR reference quality monitors will come down far enough to use in the entire pipeline soon. When that happens, I'm sure HDR will become second nature for all concerned.One of the insomniac guys is an HDR fiend, they definatey know what they are doing. HDR is essentially an artists tool and I'm sure they have their reasons.
We still only have a handful of HDR capable displays at our studio, so the content is authored and lit on normal displays, and then there's a HDR pass at the end. Would not be surprised if the same is true at Insomniac. Or at least, was true for the majority of production. Hopefully the price of HDR reference quality monitors will come down far enough to use in the entire pipeline soon. When that happens, I'm sure HDR will become second nature for all concerned.
Personally I'm using a consumer grade LCD because it supports stereoscopic, and that was important the last time my kit got upgraded.
You are armchair. John is a professional.Do you always insult anyone who posts anything that you don't like?
I mean, I'm not the one who said there's no performance difference between a potentially 4k parallax corrected cubemap versus a generic 128 cubemap.
If only you took your own advice.
It's still baffling how one person can ruin a thread and we somehow let it happen every single time...
You are armchair. John is a professional.
From what I've read, he pointed out that he thinks you don't know what you're talking about. As someone who does what he does professionally, and not senselessly on a message board, I think he has grounds to make that sort of claim. How is what he said an insult, not rather a reality check?
Feeling insulted is a perspective, that doesn't definitively make what was said, an insult. How you filter what was said and how you go on to deal with it, is a choice. This guy doesn't really want a discussion though. He wants to perpetuate nonsense in every Digital Foundry thread and hope that it leads to something bigger and revelatory enough for the downgrade bandwagon to pick up speed again. Reality is though, that he's tried it on similarly with with other Sony exclusives and it has been rightfully dismissed as the crazy talk that it is. There are no lessons to be learned with this character.Hey if someone on John's level told me I didn't know what I was talking about when i really thought that I did and also thought I was onto something... I too would feel insulted.
Feeling insulted is a perspective, that doesn't definitively make what was said, an insult. How you filter what was said and how you go on to deal with it, is a choice. This guy doesn't really want a discussion though. He wants to perpetuate nonsense in every Digital Foundry thread and hope that it leads to something bigger and revelatory enough for the downgrade bandwagon to pick up speed again. Reality is though, that he's tried it on similarly with with other Sony exclusives and it has been rightfully dismissed as the nonsense that it is. There are no lessons to be learned with this character.
Feeling insulted is a perspective, that doesn't definitively make what was said, an insult. How you filter what was said and how you go on to deal with it, is a choice. This guy doesn't really want a discussion though. He wants to perpetuate nonsense in every Digital Foundry thread and hope that it leads to something bigger and revelatory enough for the downgrade bandwagon to pick up speed again. Reality is though, that he's tried it on similarly with with other Sony exclusives and it has been rightfully dismissed as the crazy talk that it is. There are no lessons to be learned with this character.
For those not familiar with Iamthatium's posts...
https://www.resetera.com/posts/7081848/
https://www.resetera.com/posts/7089353/
https://www.resetera.com/posts/7083317/
https://www.resetera.com/posts/7085166/
P.S still waiting for that Detroit quality Unreal engine demo he said he could and would easily do...like...months ago lol.
Is it still that same guy? God, Talk about trollingP.S still waiting for that Detroit quality Unreal engine demo he said he could and would easily do...like...months ago lol.
For those not familiar with Iamthatium's posts...
https://www.resetera.com/posts/7081848/
https://www.resetera.com/posts/7089353/
https://www.resetera.com/posts/7083317/
https://www.resetera.com/posts/7085166/
P.S still waiting for that Detroit quality Unreal engine demo he said he could and would easily do...like...months ago lol.
I was shocked when the GIF started movingBest looking open world city I've seen. Looks unreal. The detail density, lighting, and amount of life and npcs is fantastic.
I'm not sure if you covered this, but I'm quite sure jstevenson told us the game does supersampling by itself. Haven't found the time to play yet. Someone please tell me this game of all games doesn't force me to enable the system switch for supersampling! :(If you've got a PS4 Pro attached to a 4k TV, this is going to be a beautiful way to show it off.
On a base PS4 or when connected to a 1080p display, the internal representation is 1920×1080 to perfectly match the TV's expected input
What is a little bit disappointing and what hasn't been addressed yet is that the game apparently uses different character models during gameplay and cutscenes/menus/selfie camera mode.
I noticed it first on the Spider-Punk costume where the model quality discrepancy is very noticable.
This is how the model looks in cutscenes/menus/selfie camera mode:
This is how it looks during gameplay and in photomode (outside selfie mode). Polygon edges are clearly visible (head outline, shoulders, buttons, hands...) and the web lines on the face are partly incomplete:
The same discrepancy of gameplay and cutscene models applies to other costumes except the classic Spiderman suit that players start the game with. It seems to be both in gameplay and cutscenes of great quality.
It's unfortunate the quality loss even affects the new white spider suit of the game, visible polygon edges (knee) and crude texturing (white parts on the heels):
It's all part of the smoke and mirrors of modern gaming. I'm suprised they let it through like that
Recent Sony AAA exclusives managed to keep the character model quality in gameplay just as high as in cutscenes, for example Detroit, God of War, Shadow of the Colossus, Horizon Zero Dawn etc.
You sure now it's not a bug? Cause so far I also thought it is, cause other models look amazing, for anyone not looking into the OT, this is what I wrote there, every pic without selfie mode.
What is a little bit disappointing and what hasn't been addressed yet is that the game apparently uses different character models during gameplay and cutscenes/menus/selfie camera mode.
I noticed it first on the Spider-Punk costume where the model quality discrepancy is very noticable.
This is how the model looks in cutscenes/menus/selfie camera mode:
This is how it looks during gameplay and in photomode (outside selfie mode). Polygon edges are clearly visible (head outline, shoulders, buttons, hands...) and the web lines on the face are partly incomplete:
The same discrepancy of gameplay and cutscene models applies to other costumes except the classic Spiderman suit that players start the game with. It seems to be both in gameplay and cutscenes of great quality.
It's unfortunate the quality loss even affects the new white spider spidersuit of the game. There are visible polygon edges (knee) and crude texturing (white parts on the heels):
It's weird that they actually have the models in higher quality in the game but don't use them for gameplay, when other models stay high quality in gameplay. That apparently isn't the problem. Yeah, maybe it is a bug...
Apart from visibly lower polygon count and slightly less sharp textures than other suits they imo don't look that bad. I think that spider logo on the one suit is supposed to look as if it was quickly and carelessy airbrushed on. That's why it is a little blurred and slanted. Only this one looks imo pretty bad:
Do you have an image of it during a cutcsene or selfie mode?
I think it might be a bug, I was just admiring his feet and how they didn't look like yours. I switched suits and back again and then they were the same
I worked all weekend on this shit and bumped up against the maximum allowable capture on review embargo day. You have zero idea what you're talking about. You're doing the same thing as pre-release - you look at something, see it's different without understanding anything about it, and start mouthing off. I'd have been happy to discuss this if you hadn't been a jerk about it. What is the point of acting that way? I wish I could just do retro videos exclusively to avoid all this garbage.