May 31, 2022
2,277
Baltimore, Maryland, USA
The gaming news site Aftermath is reporting that a booth at PAX East 2024 is "Saudi Arabia State-Sponsored":

Saudi Arabia’s State-Sponsored Gaming Booth Is Upsetting Queer PAX East Attendees - Aftermath

Qiddiya Gaming is a project of the Public Investment Fund of Saudi Arabia and is part of a multibillion dollar initiative to bring esports to the country.

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Qiddiya Gaming has been keeping quiet about attending PAX East. There's no press release on their press room, no posts on their social media, and nothing on their website about their attendance. But Qiddiya has appeared, quietly, on the PAX East homepage as one of their Featured Exhibitors, next to companies like Pokemon, Larian Studios, and Final Fantasy XIV.

What's not mentioned on the PAX East site or on the vendor listing is that Qiddiya Gaming is one of Saudi Arabia's state-sponsored programs. It's been widely reported (from outlets like The Guardian, Reuters, and the Associated Press) that Saudi Arabia is engaging in "sportswashing"—where the government, through investments in sports and games, hopes to "wash over" its less savory press... like human rights abuses. Qiddiya City, the multibillion dollar sportsplex outside of Riyadh, can be seen as another attempt by the authoritarian regime to distract from its horrendous record. Representatives of the Saudi government deny these accusations.

Despite being a Featured Exhibitor, it's likely that Qiddiya Gaming was a late addition to the program. According to Brian Liberge, part of the leadership team for Games on Demand, the large booth was previously marked by only a number, and it's only been a few days since their logo popped up on the PAX East Nav App.

After members of the tabletop community realized that Qiddiya Gaming would be attending PAX East, Games on Demand—an independent outfit that has run tabletop games at PAX conventions for over a decade—responded with a demand that ReedPOP (the convention production company behind PAX, Emerald City Comic Con, Star Wars Celebration, and New York Comic Con, among others) and PAX East specifically reconsider their association with Qiddiya.

"We have seen the PAX convention continuously work to make every gamer who comes to the table with a sincere desire to share their joy feel like a welcomed member of the community." The statement, posted on March 8, reads. "The inclusion of Qiddiya goes against those efforts. One of the six rules of PAX is "Don't harass anyone" and this group has gone far beyond breaking that rule."

It bears explicitly stating: Qiddiya Gaming is very likely exclusively state funded by the authoritarian government of Saudi Arabia, via their Public Investment Fund, which is their Sovereign Wealth Fund.
The PIF of Saudi Arabia has invested billions of dollars in the larger Qiddiya City, a new sportsplex/theme park a few miles to the south west of the capital city of Riyadh. All of the Qiddiya City projects, including esports initiatives, are described as part of the government's Vision 2030 plan.

Qiddiya Gaming's funder, the PIF, has consistently come under intense criticism for its ties to human rights abuses, per the Human Rights Watch. According to The Guardian, during the period when the PIF was investing in PGA, the US Congress subpoenaed the 700 billion dollar PIF to get information about its investments because the Saudi government did not voluntarily comply with congressional requests for transparency. From the same article, Democratic Senator Richard Blumenthal said "The PIF has been implicated in some of Saudi Arabia's most abhorrent atrocities." Another report from The Guardian reveals that the PIF has deployed roughly six billion dollars to influence sports like soccer, tennis, and golf across the globe.

While PAX East is primarily a video game convention, it does have significant tabletop presence, and a hugely popular Games on Demand room for players who want to pick up a TTRPG on the fly. "As a queer trans game designer and somewhat-long time volunteer for Games on Demand at PAX East and PAX Unplugged, the PAX conventions have always felt like a relatively safe place to be a queer human because there were a lot of outward displays that they valued queer folks comfort over bigots," Natalie Pudim, an organizer for Games on Demand, said to Rascal over email. "By accepting Qiddiya's sponsorship it seems that safety for queer and trans people is only a value of PAX until it gets in the way of making money."

The Human Dignity Trust reports that "Saudi Arabia criminalises same-sex sexual activity between men and between women. The gender expression of trans people is also criminalised. Sentences include a maximum penalty of death. There is evidence of the law being enforced in recent years, and LGBT people are regularly subjected to discrimination and violence." The International Lesbian Gay Bisexual Trans and Intersex Organization (ILGA) published a report on State-Sponsored Homophobia in 2020 that stated that Saudia Arabia considered the death penalty an appropriate response to consensual homosexual acts
.

"PAX presents itself as a safe, inclusive space. While I've usually felt that to be the case at East and Unplugged, PAX providing a platform to an infamously cruel organization makes me reconsider," said Zoe Johnson, a volunteer for the Games on Demand at PAX East.
 

ClickyCal'

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Oct 25, 2017
61,218
I mean, no surprise. Money over queer peoples' safety....Just an absolute disgrace from Pax for this.
 

DigitalOp

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Nov 16, 2017
10,006
Seems pretty cut and dry

The Gaming company is funded by the PIF. The PIF is a direct result of Saudi Arabia's "Vision 2030" plan.

I think it would be completely ignorant to try to ignore the connection here. Now we see how PAX decides to respond.
 

FF Seraphim

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Oct 26, 2017
14,687
Tokyo
I mean... look at how SA is investing into gaming. Of course this was going to happen sooner or later.

Just hope they do not get their hands into any more cookie jars.
 

Chippewa Barr

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Aug 8, 2020
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Average day for Saudi financial imperialism. They fund your shit with the agreement they can push their agenda. They know oil ain't forever so they are diversifying everywhere.

Sad that PAX would succumb to it.
the most suspicious post history ever lol
No kidding lol.

Will be interested to see how they progress in posting lol very bot-like.
 

Celestial Descend

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Aug 15, 2022
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Saudi government's security relies almost solely on American weapons, which are sold by American congress and government officials, who are voted in by American people. I seem to recall Biden signed a massive arm deal with Saudi in 2022. I wonder how many American people hold it against him in the upcoming election.
 

SunshinePuppies

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Nov 14, 2020
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I mean yeah, I would be pissed too if a company sponsored by a state that criminalizes my existence was given the okay to share the same space as me.
 

Lord Fanny

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Apr 25, 2020
28,060
Saudi government's security relies almost solely on American weapons, which are sold by American congress and government officials, who are voted in by American people. I seem to recall Biden signed a massive arm deal with Saudi in 2022. I wonder how many American people hold it against him in the upcoming election.

Most people probably aren't aware of that and it's not something that is on the doorstep like it is here, so I doubt many will
 

SirKai

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Dec 28, 2017
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User warned: continuing derail
Saudi government's security relies almost solely on American weapons, which are sold by American congress and government officials, who are voted in by American people. I seem to recall Biden signed a massive arm deal with Saudi in 2022. I wonder how many American people hold it against him in the upcoming election.

Biden's felating of Israel has pretty much sucked all the air out of the room for a lot of his past bullshit, but it goes without saying the man should be in prison for multiple reasons (including what you just cited).

Anyway, this is enormously disappointing to see from PAX. I bet they had a response pre-cooked for this.
 

B-Dubs

That's some catch, that catch-22
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Oct 25, 2017
35,196
Hey, how about we NOT derail the thread from the major issue presented in the OP?
 

Argentil

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Oct 27, 2017
833
Hope it's not too late for them to reconsider, this is such a bad idea. I can only imagine how much they're offering to get their foot in the door like this.
 

Naijaboy

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Mar 13, 2018
16,299
Man, I wouldn't be surprised if the Saudis tried to take over fan conventions like Comic Con. If the economy for them goes south, that money would be tempting. Which is why this needs to be stopped now.
 

krazen

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Oct 27, 2017
14,026
Gentrified Brooklyn
SA's moves are largely the Prince a non fossil oil future which will eventually come even if it takes many lifetimes. Irony is that it seems the bulk is centered around Western pop entertainment and luxury, places that actually give a shit about basic human rights because no one wants to watch a movie/boot up a game with a logo that represents murdered queer people and chainsawed journalists…kills the suspension of belief /s.

You figure it would just be quiet investment money, but they also want to be the face of the brand while thumbing their nose at basic human rights. Western companies have no morals so no way to stop them there, so the fans not giving them an inch and pressure will be key.
 

Mesoian

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Oct 28, 2017
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They might. I know, for a fact, that almost half of the enforcer staff is extremely upset about the booth. It's to late to do anything this year, but no one is pleased by is inclusion and reedpop will likely be left holding the bag if their volunteer work force decides to walk in 2025.
 

Mesoian

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Oct 28, 2017
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Man, I wouldn't be surprised if the Saudis tried to take over fan conventions like Comic Con. If the economy for them goes south, that money would be tempting. Which is why this needs to be stopped now.

I think the real question here is, how do you meaningfully stop it when the Saudi powers are buying up more and more of the foundational level of game development year over year? How do you meaningfully stop a Sega Booth or an snk Booth from having the same impact as this Saudi Booth?

I honestly don't know.
 

Bladelaw

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Oct 25, 2017
7,903
They might. I know, for a fact, that almost half of the enforcer staff is extremely upset about the booth. It's to late to do anything this year, but no one is pleased by is inclusion and reedpop will likely be left holding the bag if their volunteer work force decides to walk in 2025.
This would be the thing that would prompt change. It's definitely too late to do anything now, but an Enforcer walk out would cripple PAX.
 

Mesoian

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Oct 28, 2017
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Another issue is that the backing investment pool for this company is the second largest in the region, with 940 bullion dollars in operational wealth. In a year where games are failing to get funding from traditional investors, a lot of people are going to be going after that Saudi money, regardless of how bloody it may be. In a year of closures following a year of layoffs, a lot of development houses are going to be looking to the PIF, the ADIA, and the KIA as a life line, and the rest of the industry has done nothing to offer an alternative, most quietly locking the door behind them as they exit the industry.

Make no mistake, this company will be at pax to recruit and with the current economical climate of the industry, they're poised to be successful.
 

Macello

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Oct 25, 2017
266
Baltimore, Maryland
I think the real question here is, how do you meaningfully stop it when the Saudi powers are buying up more and more of the foundational level of game development year over year? How do you meaningfully stop a Sega Booth or an snk Booth from having the same impact as this Saudi Booth?

I honestly don't know.
Imagine if the Embracer deal had gone through. They'd own half the damn gaming industry right now.
 

spyroflame0487

One Winged Slayer
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Nov 3, 2017
3,217
Make no mistake, this company will be at pax to recruit and with the current economical climate of the industry, they're poised to be successful.

Man I was trying to think of the reason they'd even have a booth there besides funneling money into something that makes them look good but...
this is the play isn't it? They're recruiting game devs and people who can't get their money through regular investors.
And you're right, after all the layoffs and studio closures *this year alone*, this is the perfect opportunity.
 

Bladelaw

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Oct 25, 2017
7,903
Man I was trying to think of the reason they'd even have a booth there besides funneling money into something that makes them look good but...
this is the play isn't it? They're recruiting game devs and people who can't get their money through regular investors.
And you're right, after all the layoffs and studio closures *this year alone*, this is the perfect opportunity.
Which is probably why they backed out of the Embracer deal. With all the layoffs everywhere there's a lot more devs looking for work and when your options are blood money and feeding/housing your family vs no money and severance/job hunt I can see folks taking the deal.
Damn, kinda makes me wanna go to rustle their jimmies and see if I can get kicked out for it
Rainbow stickers would be fun.
 

Mesoian

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Oct 28, 2017
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Imagine if the Embracer deal had gone through. They'd own half the damn gaming industry right now.
I'm fully of the opinion that the reason why it failed was because Saudi firms like ADIA knew they could own half the industry without embracer, it would just take another 5 or 10 years.
 
Dec 8, 2022
253
Amsterdam
because no one wants to watch a movie/boot up a game with a logo that represents murdered queer people and chainsawed journalists…kills the suspension of belief /s.
You say that but I'm not seeing it from the interest in Qatar's hosting of the Formula 1, in the interest in China's hosting of the Olympic Games or in the interest in Chinese (CCP-owned) games such as Genshin Impact, even on this forum.

But please convince me otherwise because I'd rather be optimistic about this.
 
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evilromero

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Oct 27, 2017
3,847
Their booth is next to The Fun Pimps. I was disappointed to learn they don't make games about pimping.
 

Ash_Greytree

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Oct 31, 2023
676
The first order of action should be to continue to apply pressure to ReedPop before the convention next week in a bid to get them to recognize that Qiddiya is not a force for good and should not be allowed to be there in the future. Organizing a boycott of PAX as a whole or other ReedPop conventions throughout 2024, and agreeing to come back only if Qiddiya is not allowed at any other PAXes or ReedPop events in the future, would be something good to see.

If that doesn't work, then I think that PAX attendees, both normal attendees and those who have booths there, and PAX Enforcer staff who are angry at the Qiddiya booth being there, should organize a protest. No twee "Individuals walking up to the booth with a lot of pride flag regalia on and talking to the people at the booth like normal" things. An actual protest such as forming a picket line and blocking access to the booth while holding signs high that decry the atrocities that Saudi Arabia commits, alongside flyers explaining how Qiddiya is connected to the Saudi government.

Edit: I said "PAX Enforcer volunteer staff" but looked it up and realized that they are now paid, so I removed "volunteer" from that which implied they aren't paid.
 

Ash_Greytree

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Oct 31, 2023
676
Did any pushback happen at PAX East regarding Qiddiya Gaming? Is there any follow-up I can read or find anywhere on it?
 

RoboPlato

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Oct 25, 2017
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Did any pushback happen at PAX East regarding Qiddiya Gaming? Is there any follow-up I can read or find anywhere on it?
I was at PAX while there wasn't any big, open pushback that I saw the booth got mocked a lot. There were no games there. It was the biggest booth on the floor and there were just some portal looking standees that were vaguely sci-fi themed and they occasionally had a streamer show up or a giveaway. It was just a whole lot of nothing.

They also didn't want people that weren't posing with the portals to take pictures/video and it seemed like the people there were either told to play dumb or they genuinely did not know what they were there to represent. It was bizarre
 

L11ghtman

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Jan 19, 2022
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You're telling me a country where Jews are legally prohibited from "practicing Judaism" in public isn't a great place for queer people?
 

Ash_Greytree

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Oct 31, 2023
676
I was at PAX while there wasn't any big, open pushback that I saw the booth got mocked a lot. There were no games there. It was the biggest booth on the floor and there were just some portal looking standees that were vaguely sci-fi themed and they occasionally had a streamer show up or a giveaway. It was just a whole lot of nothing.

They also didn't want people that weren't posing with the portals to take pictures/video and it seemed like the people there were either told to play dumb or they genuinely did not know what they were there to represent. It was bizarre
I see, thanks for the info. Here's hoping that any pushback they received, including from longtime attendees like Games on Demand, combined with how bland the booth was despite it being the largest one there, can get ReedPop to reconsider having them there or at other PAXes in the future. The space would be better used by game devs (software or tabletop), hardware makers and tabletop accesory artists and craftspeople, and more who keep PAX interesting and fun.
 

GetDigitized

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Oct 25, 2017
2,897
You're telling me a country where Jews are legally prohibited from "practicing Judaism" in public isn't a great place for queer people?
That's a rule for everything unislamic, it's not targeted spefically at Judaism . Every Islamic Arab country has the same rules, do whatever you want in your home, but don't do it in public.
Anyways, your comment isn't relevant to the op.
 

GetDigitized

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Oct 25, 2017
2,897
That's... not better!
Well it's better than making it out to be anti semitic, which it isn't. Also, if you actually look into the enforcement of these policies, they aren't enforced, there's like 200+ unofficial churches which were working towards being official recognised. Not sure about Judaism, but again there's not any specific policies against it. If you didn't know Christians and Jews are considered better than other religions to Muslims as they are people of the book, so I assume they'd be treated similarly.

Edit - https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/inte...uilding-bridges-as-family-with-mutual-history

Seems it's not even a thing, like many laws it's just there but not enforced.
 

L11ghtman

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Jan 19, 2022
1,729
Well it's better than making it out to be anti semitic, which it isn't. Also, if you actually look into the enforcement of these policies, they aren't enforced, there's like 200+ unofficial churches which were working towards being official recognised. Not sure about Judaism, but again there's not any specific policies against it. If you didn't know Christians and Jews are considered better than other religions to Muslims as they are people of the book, so I assume they'd be treated similarly.

Edit - https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/inte...uilding-bridges-as-family-with-mutual-history

Seems it's not even a thing, like many laws it's just there but not enforced.
It's absolutely antisemitic! Not surprised to be getting this kind of pushback here though lol.
 

Bish_Bosch

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Apr 30, 2018
1,144
That's a rule for everything unislamic, it's not targeted spefically at Judaism . Every Islamic Arab country has the same rules, do whatever you want in your home, but don't do it in public.
Anyways, your comment isn't relevant to the op.
I mean saying every Arab country has the same laws isn't even true. Lebanon and Morocco for example have wildly different laws than KSA.
 

Gay Bowser

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Oct 30, 2017
18,052
Well it's better than making it out to be anti semitic, which it isn't.

Just because the laws are also anti-other religions doesn't mean that they aren't anti-semitic. A law that says "hey, you can't be a practicing Jew" in public is pretty clearly anti-semitic, regardless of what other laws exist for other religions or how consistently it's enforced.

Not entirely sure why you're going to bat for some pretty obviously bigoted policies from SA here. "Other countries have the same rules" isn't an excuse.
 

GetDigitized

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Oct 25, 2017
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User banned (1 month): pedantic trolling over a series of posts
Just because the laws are also anti-other religions doesn't mean that they aren't anti-semitic. A law that says "hey, you can't be a practicing Jew" in public is pretty clearly anti-semitic, regardless of what other laws exist for other religions or how consistently it's enforced.

Not entirely sure why you're going to bat for some pretty obviously bigoted policies from SA here. "Other countries have the same rules" isn't an excuse.
Because it's not targeting any specific religion, as I said, pointing out it's anti semitic specifically implies they are targeting Jews specifically, which the original comment was explicitly saying, which they SA aren't . You can be a practicing jew in SA, Jews can enter a mosque and pray however they like for example, it's a part of Islam which Saudi cannot deny . Jews can pray in public as long as it doesn't affect anyone else (this would also apply to Muslims FYI). The laws are there to prevent preaching etc. Which also affects strands of Islam or those of opposing politics.
I'm defending them because it's not accurate and is largely fueled by western propaganda by people who have never visited the country . I'm not a fan of Saudi's leadership as a Muslim either, but posts like the ones I replied to aren't accurate.
 
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Gay Bowser

Member
Oct 30, 2017
18,052
Jews can enter a mosque and pray however they like [...] The laws are there to prevent preaching

It's weird that you're making these points as some sort of defense, like you're fundamentally not realizing that these laws are examples of people of certain religions being disenfranchised or having fewer rights than others, which is the problem. "This lack of free speech also affects certain strands of Islam, or those of opposing politics!" Okay? That's still not great. You get that, right?

This is getting off-topic, so I'm going to stop, but it's weird how you're so consistently missing the point. "It can't be antisemitic, because there's also a bias engrained in law against all other non-Islamic religions too! And also those laws are on the books but inconsistently enforced. And also other countries have the same rules, so it's okay. And also..."

It's also odd that you're saying the criticism is "largely fueled by western propaganda" when you're straight up admitting to the parts that people are criticizing in your posts; you just seem to think they're okay.
 

lori

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Oct 25, 2017
2,458
Because it's not targeting any specific religion, as I said, pointing out it's anti semitic specifically implies they are targeting Jews specifically, which the original comment was explicitly saying, which they SA aren't . You can be a practicing jew in SA, Jews can enter a mosque and pray however they like for example, it's a part of Islam which Saudi cannot deny . Jews can pray in public as long as it doesn't affect anyone else (this would also apply to Muslims FYI). The laws are there to prevent preaching etc. Which also affects strands of Islam or those of opposing politics.
I'm defending them because it's not accurate and is largely fueled by western propaganda by people who have never visited the country . I'm not a fan of Saudi's leadership as a Muslim either, but posts like the ones I replied to aren't accurate.
I'm gonna be real, it comes off a lot like "you're allowed to be gay in Saudi Arabia, the laws are just there to stop them from having sex on the streets" which I have read on this very forum before