^^^^^^
Also have to wonder what kind of other things they say in private as "jokes."
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Man who taught dog Nazi salute found guilty of hate crime
- Thread starter EightBitNate
- Start date
Also have to wonder what kind of other things they say in private as "jokes."
Exactly, it's disgusting and quite telling.
Your example of 'humour' is pretty gross tbh. I would have stopped listening to that podcast.
I'm fully with you. I think putting people behind bars for this kind of thing is too much. That said, I fully believe that hate speech should be punished. We've been observing what not properly addressing hate speech especially on the internet can lead to for the past few decades, in several countries with several degrees of laws pertaining to this. And while there needs to be a clear distinction within the context of that speech being made, it still needs to be prosecuted, period.
After all, there are laws for things like libel/slander, incitement to violence, and so on. The laws against this kind of thing have seldom (if ever) been abused, and that also includes the German/Austrian laws prohibiting the glorification of Nazis/Holocaust denial, etc.
The law that Meechan is being charged with breaking is intentionally vaguely worded, and that is a problem, but if I was in the prosecutor's shoes, I probably would've gone with the actual hate speech law rather than the grossly offensive bit (and the fact you can face jail time for being 'grossly offensive' is surreal in its own right tbh), because "gas the Jews", in my eyes, especially as a Jew, is hate speech, no matter how you twist or turn it.
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They took this through the courts for just over 2 years and IIRC they tried to push a stronger sentence. It obviously wasn't going to stick because it is humour, albeit in bad taste, and stronger hate speech sentencing with 12~24 month plus jail sentences is often for incitement or targeted harassment.
The police snapchat dick drawing managed to pass through this 2003 communication act for being grossly offensive. That shows you how low the bar can be set to get a sentence passed under this law.
The fact that you posted it with periods after each word doesn't make any better. Once you give the government the power to pick and choose who gets to speak about what, you are voting to give Donald Trump the power to go after CNN, the New York Times, and his personal political enemies. I literally can't think of a time in US history when it would make less sense for a left-leaning American to endorse politically-inspired censorship.
On the other hand, the alt-right makes anti-Semitic threats all the time and when challenged they often fall back on the excuse of "it's just a joke guys lol"
Yeah, threats shouldn't be tolerated.
This wasn't a conviction that was based on the potential of a threat, but on it being deemed grossly offensive.
This is why courts should look at context.
I get where you're coming from but it ignores the fact that there are working hate speech laws in a number of European countries, laws that have been around for a long time and the things you're concerned about haven't happened.
There have been laws against certain types of speech and contexts of speech for awhile now, such as obscenity laws, child porn laws, fighting words, libel, etc.. The First Amendment isn't all encompassing in a legal sense. You can argue that it should be and maybe I'd agree with you- maybe- but regardless we've been in the timeline of limited speech for awhile now.
What did you think this reply is supposed to say about you? Do you think it's positive to say you only care when it effects something you personally like?
I haven't even really read up on the police snapchat dick thing, honestly.
And the history of this particular case is what makes me believe that they're at least in part trying to set an example here.
No, because what if the shirt means a person is killing a minority because they were racist to them? You can't be entirely sure what's in their heart.
User banned (2 days): Involving another member's employment in an argument
Man you gonna talk shit about me and "Jesus, this thread" but you need receipts to show a link between the alt-right and antisemitism? Right next to your employers name? That is some bold shit.
https://www.npr.org/2018/03/19/5948...sh-journalist-links-trump-to-the-rise-of-hate here's a book on the subject and good interview
https://www.adl.org/resources/backgrounders/from-alt-right-to-alt-lite-naming-the-hate
http://www.newsweek.com/anti-semitism-rising-alt-right-era-study-699218
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/08/nazis-racism-charlottesville/536928/
Are you trying to argue that posting a video that in one legal context was considered hate speech for the purposes of giving context to a news story is the exact same thing as condoning said speech?
anti-semetic THREATS all. the. time. I've not heard of this, why should I not ask for some links? Should I just not ask questions?
Its not a great joke sure. But I assume most people thought Borat was funny right? Same deal.
I'm just saying that the argument people make that " they can decide whatever they want is hate speech" works the other way.
Anyone can decide that something hateful and racist is just a joke and they do, very often.
I'll read your links, thanks. BUT, are you threatening me. Mentioning my employer in such a way? Is that a way to say "You can get fired for asking these kinds of questions"? I stand by my question, since I am uninformed as to the severity of the claims.
Yeah, but I don't believe you're asking them sincerely because you literally cannot fathom an answer to either one, hence why I tried digging at a potential argument.
I think you and I both agree that this video is not even remotely comparable to child pornography. If you would like to advance an argument to the contrary, feel free. Otherwise, let's please drop the obviously stupid stuff.
Just asking questions guyz?! Please dude, just drop it your not sly when you spent all afternoon in a thread defending a guy teaching a dog to salute to "gas all Jews"
As for freedom of speech, you can defend what you want it's your freedom but it's your image you cultivate. I won't be buying any backflip studio games.
i can fathom plenty of answers, im asking so i can receive the correct ones
You should because like some other examples including the #killallwhitepeople tweet, it was sentenced under this act and had someone arrested.
The courts and Government should be adult enough and legally sound to discern credible threats and direct harassment/incitement where they should be involved and when they should leave it to social consequences for being an idiot.
I was using an example of exceptions to free speech to argue against your notion that the government shouldn't gain the power to dictate which types of speech are acceptable (newsflash: they already have that power, just to a limited degree), of which child pornography isn't the only one. If you'd like to actually comprehend the point of my post instead of cherry picking an example to clutch pearls, feel free.
Then you should probably PM or ping a mod to get an answer so this thread can be shut down in case it is in violation of the rules.
Cool, our games are free anyhow. And I am not defending the guy. I'm angry at the guy getting jailed/charged with a crime over a joke.
I thought Borat was utter unfunny rubbish, and needlessly disrespectful and downright cruel to the people in the countries he went to, and especially towards Roma people. In fact I think some Roma rights group in Germany filed a complaint that the movie incited violence against them, and won.
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Also, Cohen is you know, an actual comedian. He knows what he's doing, and we know what his intentions are, whether we think he is funny or not. Cohen also is Jewish, so at the very least he is part of a minority that he kicks at (though I do think that his joking at the expense of minorities is gross).
This guy is some asshole on the internet teaching his dog to do the Nazi salute and saying "gas the Jews" repeatedly. We don't know if the guy is actually antisemitic. That is one of the big differences here.
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It's not really worth it. A lot of people are just looking for "GOTCHA" moments where they catch someone they think is racist. It isn't a good faith debate in the slightest. It's basically always the same people though so ignoring them goes a long way.
But them constantly enriching white people, starting wars where we kill millions of brown people and enforcing voter laws the mostly effect black and brown and poor people, de regulating states that severly harm poor and black education isnt racist.... sure hun.
we have to start looking at the effects of laws and not the letter of them to find their real intent and holding those accountable who want them in place. libertarian ism and conservatism in america rely on racist and white supremacist laws through enabling privilege and pooling of wealth with white men
Dude nobody is threatening you, relax. It's just wild af to be here as a verified individual, basically flaired as representative of the industry and to be saying stuff like that.
Guy seems like a real idiot, but I don't think he should spend time in jail.
A fine should be enough.
A fine should be enough.
Certainly. I don't necessarily agree with this ruling - the video was clearly made in jest and it does appear as if the guy views Nazis at the very least in a negative light. But on the other hand, anti-Semitism isn't really something to make light of, so there comes a point when people need to be told to grow up and this is that point for this man.
Saying stuff like what? What have I said that is at ALL crazy or racist? I don't agree that he should be jailed for his dumb joke. I am unaware of a dearth of antisemitism in the alt-right. What makes that wild at all?
The point of your post is moronic. The fact that government bans child pornography -- which involves the literal rape of a child -- is not even remotely the same thing as banning a stupid and tasteless attempt at humor. One involves a person being bodily penetrated or exposed for the sexual gratification of others. The other is a stupid joke that we can all just shrug off as stupid.
You need to look in the mirror, guy.
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I see.
That law is definitely problematic and I should hope people do something about it. However, he should definitely be penalized in some way for his actions, which only help to breed antisemitism and give alt-righters the impression that they're in good company. Tolerating such speech is to tolerate nazis.
I really don't think that you can possibly be saying this in good faith without using those effected negatively by the war on drugs as human shields.
The war on drugs directly involves police officers planting drugs on the poor, especially people of color, typically black or hispanic individuals (at least, for the US's War on Drugs which is the only one I'm familiar with). They then get put in jail and are put to work. It's using the already disenfranchised as free slave labor, basically.
Punishing someone to set the example that a society doesn't tolerate Nazis is in no way similar, especially as in this case it seems this guy wasn't particularly poor.
You must not keep up with politics very much if you're unaware of the fact that the alt-right is just a fancy name white nationalists use.
You really going to ignore the rest of that post and the overall point to focus on that one thing huh
A little pug throwing up a salute when he hears "sieg heil," or jumping up excited when he hears "gas the Jews?!" is absurdly inappropriate and ridiculous, which is why it's funny to some people. Listening to this guy do interviews, I think that's all he was really going for: a laugh. A prank on his girlfriend. That it blew up into this ridiculous controversy is probably only going to serve the alt right narrative (which I don't think he's really a part of) that the left wants to censor free speach.
It's a distasteful joke. This one should have been let go.
It's a distasteful joke. This one should have been let go.
Exactly. And instead of being crackpots on a corner spewing hate, they're now Youtube personalities with an unlimited reach, instilling their hateful ideologies into the minds of millions.
Of course it's what you're doing. You're spending multiple pages carrying water for someone who made a joke about gassing the Jews. Strikes me as defending racism. :|
Why do you people always trot out these extreme examples when they're so far removed from what we're arguing about right now? Which is the rise of the so-called "alt-right," the use of the internet to propagate hateful views and feed the normalization of Nazism' resurgence, and how to effectively curb any impulse among the public to openly express hate?
What "same people"? Whose "communities"? How do you know the background of the people siding with the government in this thread? You're making some borderline racist assumptions about the people in this thread who have no problem with this guy being prosecuted for his hate speech.
So, we should do nothing, when the current reality sees just one side pushing hate and the other side practically defenseless because equivocating "liberals" are worried that the laws could be turned against causes they really don't care about in the first place.
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