Hello Everyone, its time for the annual Naruto thread sorry Lotus
This thread shouldn't be as dumb and a bit more analytical looking at the aspect of the series that I talked with my brother Dale Copper with that I think just didn't work in Naruto but we sat down and thought really....why did Team Hawk exist?
To give a brief Summery of this....team?
Team Hawk was formed by Sasuke after he killed Orochimaru, Sasuke went around to various lairs/jails of Orochimaru's and recruited people to help him on his mission to find and kill Itachi and later on to help him in his Revenge/Avenger life.
Suigetsu: A man who was captured and has the power to turn himself into Water that Sasuke freed.
Karin: A Jailer/Warden for Orochimaru that watched over one of his facilities
Jugo: An man who was an experiment test subject for Orochimaru's Seals
Simple enough.
Now, I would like to focus on why Kishimoto felt to create these characters and this team before I really go into what went wrong/didn't work out with these characters.
Creation/Reason:
I say second attempt cause in many ways, Team Hawk is Kishimotos second attempt at creating and reestablishing a classic dynamic that helped out early Naruto so much.
TEAM 7
When Sasuke left the village Team 7 was without a core member of the 4 person squad and during the first arc of the timeskip the Save Gaara Arc, Kishimoto stuck with this squad of just Naruto, Sakura and Kakashi as the core main characters of that arc.
I think Kishimoto felt like he was missing something here, for most of the series up too this point all arcs had the same 3-4 person structure/dynamic that had characters work of one another from Naruto & Sasuke pissing contest, to Naruto and Sakura, Sasuke and Sakura you name it.
The Save Gaara arc really didn't have a character and vice versa for Naruto to bounce off of neither did Sakura really until the old puppet medic lady joined her and she wasn't going to be a counting character.
After this arc wrapped up Kishimoto began his first try at replicating the previous dynamic.
Sai in alot of ways is a carbon copy of Sasuke.:
- pretty Boy
- talented
- aloof
- dark hair
- fights with Naruto
- Ladies (at least Ino) love him
- has a dark/storied past with his brother
- isn't a pervert like Sasuke
Sai was created to help fill the void Sasuke left in the series by being evil.
Yamato was there to add a new teacher role to the series with some flavors of Kakashi
- Skilled and recognized Ninja of the Leaf
- Secret/Special Power that makes him unique compared to all his pears
- Teacher Role
As I said they were the first attempt at recreating this dynamic and just lile Team Hawk I don't think it worked out all to well but I will have more to say on this later.
So Sasuke forms his own group and team and what do we get....
Karin/Sakura:
- Smart Girl
- Both colorful hair (I know the pic doesn't show it to well but Karin has bright red hair.
- Both have crazy thoughts
- Both have are Medics
- and the most singular defining trait of each...a love/affection for Sasuke
My next two there some reaching but I just noticed similarities
Jugo/Naruto:
- Bright Colorful spiky hair (Orange vs Yellow)
- Both have secret dangerous powers that left unchecked/in control is dangerous.
- Both trained/learned from a Sanin to help get there powers under control
- Both have seals
Suigetsu/Kakashi:
- Both have similar hair (one is White and the other Silver)
- Both have strange powers that are pretty much unique to them.
And even during the brief...brief times you get to see all of Team Hawk together we see a similar dynamics to the original Team 7 jsut have Suigetsu have Narutos personality and bit and Jugo have Kakshis more reserved nature.
Team Hawk was not only created to give Sasuke someone to work off of/interact with, this team would be crutial to tracking down Itachi and chasing his goals along with power dynamics.
Naruto himself just in the last arc was able to defeat a member of the Akutski, but he had help from Kakshi, Choji and Ino to help him with his victory but with wheat Kishimoto is building up to Sasuke vs Itachi he couldn't just have his rival defeat two Akutski members all on his own he needed help to accomplish his goals.
While true that power levels are BS, mangakas do have there own scale of power and where certain characters are at, I feel that in Kishis mind Sasuke wasn't ready for this without some help thats why Team Hawk was made.
Add in the effect that creating this team and its hardships and such could have effects on Sasuke Character and leading him to where he wants to go it seems like a win win for Kishi
......so how did that work out.....
WHAT DID TEAM HAWK DO......
Well Sasuke before freeing Suigetsu already made the decision on who will be on his team as he saw what they could do to hunt for Itachi; freeing Suigetsu from his glass prison but before they go to recruit the other they swing by Zabusa grave and we learn Suigetsu has a history with the Seven Swordsmen of the Mist (namely Zabuza) training and wishing to be one of them but also follows Sasuke because there goals have a link.
Karin (who is earlier is introduced with an ass shot), is next being a warden and fellow scientist who experimented on people like Orochimaru but thats quickly shelved aside as we see she has the hots for Edge Eyes.
Jugo went to Orochimaru to help him control his urges where Orochimaru pretty much used what he learned and got from Jugo to make the Cursed Seals as he is pretty much Patient 0 who really only joins Sasuke cause Boneitis died for Sasuke and wants to see what Sasuke becomes.
Sasuke and co get new coats from a cat lady whos grand daughter would later date Kiba (a fate worse than death).
As quickly as they are assembled Sasuke sends them away to go find hints/clues and details on where Itachi is before Sasuke is confronted by Deidara. Team Hawk rendezvouses at the epicenter of Deidara suicide attack and see Sasuke had a plan (thats utter BS) and they take Sasuke somewhere to get healed up.
Water and Love Girl find squat while Jugo thanks to some animals have some idea where Itachi could be, Suigetsu and Karin get into a petty fight that gets Jugo nearly over the edge before Sasuke calms the situation and goes back to sleep.
(Such a compelling likable character)
Karin plans to Drug Suigetsu and Jugo to get some alone time with an injured sleeping Sasuke before they have to get on the run. Thanks to one of the hideouts they learn where Itachi is (Sasuke tells the other to stay out of it angrily) and they move.
15 Chapters later Sasuke catches up to Itachi, but Kisame with Itachi orders tell the others to stay back as Sasuke agrees basically ignoring Karin, as Suigetsu confronts Kisame as Shark man recognizes him as the litte brother of a friend of the Seven Mists with Suigetsu wishing to test out and fight Kisame with the other two protest the fight which we never get to see anything.
(Last we see of them for awhile)
24 Chapters later (besides a chapter where all they do is pose by the water), Team Hawk finally gets a speaking role and seemingly have said nothing or have no qualms about Sasukes change in demeanor and him wanting to pull high off killings that can lead to mass murder.
Kishimoto tries and acts like he was ever gonna do something with Suigetsu thing with the Seven Swords and tries to pick a fight with Kisame again but is stop by Obito and Sasuke tells him to put his dreams on hold till he gets stronger to beat Kisame (so never) as Obito assigns them to go capture B.
(Yes missions to capture important figure that destabilizes entire countries is so calm)
Okay this section of the story finally we can see Team Hawk in action as unlike before with Sasuke ordering the others off or stay put they go to work together as Suigetsu rushes in and gets his blade knocked away by B before Jugo says let me Jugo the guy who has done the least so far lets see what he can do...next panel we see Jugo.
Karin insults B intelligence calling him a dumb oaf while he raps (really shitty here Karin) as Sasuke say he will handle this.
Sasuke puts up a bit of a fight and gets Suigetsus sword back before B styles on Sasuke and skewers him, Suigetsu and Jugo jump in as Karin just being the Medic as support not fighting heals Sasuke as the men go and fight.
After some failed team attacks B goes Chakra tails and bashes Sasuke so hard in the chest along with nearly getting the others, Karin tries to heal Sasuke but Jugo comes up with something like they share seals/bodies and he heals Sasuke not wanting Boneitis memento to die removing Karin from doing something (reminds me when Naruto just stops Gai from dying randomly and not any other medical nin like Sakura).
Shark Boy blocks one of B's attacks before he is quickly dealt with before Sasuke pulls out Black Sun and stops B.
(Well if this isn't contrived I don't know what is)
Through BS Magic Eye powers B is defeated and Sasuke covers for the rest saving them as they leave with B ohh also showing how little they care about Suigetsu dream they leave Zabuzas blade behind.
I sure hope this team work thing sticks...….
Next time we really see Team Hawk there heading to Kohana for the high profile Mass Murder/Political Assassinations but are stopped by Obito and Zetsu who explain to them what has happened from Danzo and Pain so Sasuke changes his destination to the Gokage Meeting.
Sasuke and co just stake out the Gokage summit Karin warns that making the wrong move will get the rest of the Kages on them (to late) as Zetsu lets them now Sasuke is here.
Here Sasuke is consumed by his emo and just straight murks people as his team just sits around watching him kill innocents until Raikage and co are abou to lay the smackdown and save Sasuke at the expense of Suigetsus Blade. Sasuke gives them shit for joining even though they saved him, Jugo seeing the danger goes all out finally we can se what Jugo can do hopefully its good.
Utter ineffectual Jugo is down for the count in two hits as Sasuke get the blonde and fight Raikage and Sui is jsut as bad as Jugo and gets pinned to a wall defeated all the while Karin just plays Sasuke Fan Girl Announcer in her own head as A nearly kill Sasuke but Gaara stops A from killing him and Sause.
Gaara has a more meaningful interaction then anyone in Team Hawk has had with Sasuke, but Sasuke tells Karin to lead him to Danzo leaving the two others to be captured (there even some pointless bits of them trying to disguise themselves but get captured anyway) Karin still follows him cause of hots even though he evil Sasuke has to be saved by Obito good job there Karin go back to what seemingly most of female characters in Naruto can really do heal and support.
Obito shows more care for Karin telling her to stay out of Sasukes fight with Danzo as it begins
Karin spends most of the fight just reacting more on how evil Sasuke is getting forgetting he joined Orochimaru and what Danzo techinque could be as he lives the fatal hits, Karin tries to save Sasuke when he is on the ropes but experiences first hand what Kishimoto thinks of her
But Karin is just explaining stuff to the audience as Sasuke knows what Danzo is doing Sasuke gets his hit in and Danzo tries to use Karin as a hostage as Karin begs sasuke to save her sas the Sause shows how much he cares for her.
Karin even with a stab wound and a cheap flashback that Sasuke saved her sometime when he was still in the Village still has feelings for Sasuke and remarks wanting to see what he looked like back then.
Saskura comes in just before Sasuke kills Karin on Obitos advice but Sasuke orders Sakura to prove her loyality and desire to follow him by killing Karin.
I think here is a good point to end the summery as from here on out its mostly the same so let me just do this quick.
Suigetsu during the war explains he wants to get all the Seven Mist swords and resurrect the group as its leader (ore from this later), Karin escapes from Kohana interrogation, the two boys are unaware Sasuke left them for dead as after some dumb bickering they discover a scroll of Orochimarus in a secret room and become UPS drivers to deliver it to Sasuke.
Karin meets back up with them as Sasuke, Oro and the rest go to revive the Kages Karin falls back to Sasuke can't stay made after he apologizes............
Suigetsu and Jugo do nothing from here on out as Karin does something to the Giant Statue and heals Sasuke then everyone gets wrapped up in the Infinite Dream thing we don't see there dreams ahh well its not like we needed development or see what they wanted that could help them we we could get this
Day is saved & in end....Dog Day for everyone.
No but really I think its pretty clear what went wrong with Team Hawk.
No Heart
To go back to the New team 7 Experiment, while both Sai and Yamato roles changed after the arc where they go and to grab Sasuke from Orochimaru Yamato did lose alot of his significance and for the most part didn't do much at all afterwards besides be a plot point in the war.
Sai on the other hand while his plot line with his brother was sidelined/forgotten till the War Arc, Sai still showed up and had scenes and moments with Naruto and Sakura but the others Kohana residence and even with a diminished role those scenes with Naruto and Sakura showed how much he had changed since he joined up with them.
He was cold and emotionless like Sasuke but warmed up to them and became Friends in his eyes even so much so he doesn't follow Danzo/distrusted the man he used to follow and offers both them emotional support and advice when the realities of what Sasuke has done and become come to light.
Team Hawk not so much we never really get to see them feel like a Team, during the recruitment Sasuke tells them they don't even need to be friends or like one another and he constatnly sends them out or tell them to stay put during the hunt for Itachi.
Sasuke just seems non caring or annoyed when Suigetsu and Karin fight he seems to get along the best with Suigetsu as he seems to get what going on, Karin Sasuke jsut pushes her off every time she tries and gets close with him, with Jugo he never offers support when Jugo has na episode just stare at him angrily with his red eyes.
It really hurts we don't get moment of them talking or just sitting down where they can really talk or bond, like there is nothing like this
There is really no moments for Sasuke or the team to really bond it feels like Sasuke could have just pick up three random people from the street and they be just as close.
And without those moments its hard to buy Sasuke suddenly think of Team 7 when he and the others are fighting B as there is just no comparison.
Even removing Sasuke, Team Hawk isn't close at all as again no moments to really build said bonds and trust especially once Sasuke is more evil during the Gokage Meeting. Sasuke leaves Suigetsu and Jugo to be captured not caring what happens to them and he just used karin as a tool and planned to kill her.
Yet when they all do meet up back again its never really brought up or Karin not having so much hesitation to trusting Sasuke if all it takes is some apology and she is back to glomping right on him considering he nearly killed her.
RESOLUTION
I know at one point Kishimotos plan was to have Team Hawk be killed by B to help push Sasuke down the darker path, I do think it was the right idea not to go through with this considering the lack of buildup and moments it would really come off well for Sasuke to have a change of heart from it doesn't help Kishimoto still has Sasuke go darker quick from the Capture B stuff to the Gokage Meeting pretty quick.
But I think its just kind of a waste to just kill off characters just for another Characters growth, it seemed like Kishimoto decided to have them follow there own dreams or see just how Sasuke changing changed them it didn't work but lets break this down by each member.
Suigetsu's goals and dreams are the most clear, its one of the reason why he is the best among Team Hawk. He knew Sasuke wanted Itachi and saw what Sasuke wanted as helping him to as Itachis partner is Kisame, and even before meeting up with Itachi and Kisame Shark Boy makes it clear he wants to fight Kisame and get his sword even though he looks up to the Seven Mist Swordsmen.
But when Suigetsu gets the chance to meet up with and fight with Kisame, Kishimoto shows how little he cares as he just skips it entirely. Kishimoto brings it back up later when Sasuke says Suigetsu will be Kisame one day and that they will fight again but this point is moot cause after Suigetsu leaves to go capture B...Kisame is killed and he never gets his hands on Kisames Sword which makes it worse when you remember Suigetsu gets his/Zabuzas sword destroyed.
Even when it comes to helping out Sasuke he is pretty ineffectual as neither Suigetsu nor anyone else could have been the ones who saved Sasuke from Bullshit Blast, really do much against B nor Raikage.
Suigetsu goal is to gather all the Seven Mist swords and reform the group as the Leader, he never even meets Zabuza when him and the rest of the Seven Swords are revived which just seems like such a waste. While the original intent of the Seven Swords being Mercs for Hire wouldn't be a thing in a Post Ninja World Naruto Suigetsu could have reformed them for a different purpose but it seems like Suigetsu just drops the dream going by Boruto.
He is just hanging with Orochimaru chilling out and helping the mad snake man with his experiments, hell in the Boruto Anime its established Kisame sword is just in a museum and gets stolen not by Suigetsu but by his cousin who plans to use it they couldn't even have (as far as I know) Suigetsu be there to get it back or just take it for sentimental reasons nope Boruto and co just return it to the museum.
Jugo began following Sasuke to see what kind of Ninja the man Boneitis sacrificed himself for to see what kind of person Sasuke would become and maybe he could help him get his episodes under control.
Issue here though is that Jugo is not the one who becomes self reflective or thinks about the changes in Sasuke as times goes on or at least during the Gokage meeting, that is all Karin as she is the one who remarks and thinks just how Sasuke has changed from his smile and such, how he kills indiscriminately to how his chakra has gotten cold.
Jugo is never really reflective about Sasuke he is just along for the ride, I think back to FMA when Mustang is going deeper and deeper into the abyss in his search for Hughes killer.
We see and hear Hawkeyes thoughts and notice the changes how he is slowly losing himself even Ed and Scar are able to see this. I'm not saying I expect Jugo to be the voice of reason to go to such lengths to save Mustang from the abyss like Hakweye did like Ed and Scar pointed out what Mustang has changed into or will become but to not say anything or think how Sasuke has changed and Boneitis sacrifice is so weird.
Even Sasuke doesn't help Jugo get control of his powers/episodes besides jsut anger stares and I don't know about Bortuo here.
Lets not beat around the bush, Karin is the worst member of Team Hawk and arguable one of the worst characters in the entire Naruto series.
I wouldn't be surprised if Kishimoto originally came up with Karin to be a parody of what the fandom thinks of Sakura, just there for Support, Sasuke crazy and just overall kinda useless in utilization except instead of writing it as a joke Kishi decided to play it completely straight.
Karin is here for one thing and one thing only to try and be with Sasuke/nothing but support for Sasuke, her brief flashback is just her getting saved by Sasuke during what I think is supposed to be the Forest of Death and she fell in love with him I know we don't see how Karin get involved with Orochimaru in the manga but I wouldn't be shocked if at one point to just follow the Sakura parody just joined Orochimaru to be with Sasuke.
With Karin being such a Sasuke centric character she gets now time to really develop any back and forth or a bond with Jugo or Suigetsu besides the bickering with Shark Boy she jsut keeps thinking of plans and ploys to get alone time with him like the aforementioned drugging of Jugo and Suigetsu.
Problem is Sasuke has no intrest in Karin romantically or even to get close to be a friend, every time she tries Sasuke is stand offish or just clearly pushes Karin away telling her to stay back, be quiet, etc.
Alot has been said about Sasuke and Sakura relationship be me and many others so I don't want to beat the dead horse some more but at least Sasuke showed and intrest in Sakura he cared about Sakura enough to show intreats in her to help her to thank her, have talks with her, gets anger with her, to bond and develop with Sakura and reveal more about himself
Karin gets nothing.
Look I can get woman falling for Sasuke, but if Kishimoto isn't gonna give them any kind of moments or quiet times and considering how Sasuke treats her and what happens during the Gokage Arc, the least Kishimoto could have done is have Karin be reserved into working with Sasuke again when they meet back up in the village instead of just glomping on him.
With Karin noticing Sasuke chakra and stuff Kishimoto could have had Karin see Sasukes Chakra and actions and see that he has changed but no see just quickly accepts him which considering Sasuke tried to kill her just paints Karin as a battered woman syndrome.
Worst is even after everything going into Scarlet Springs (a brief 10 Chapter or so series following Sarada), at the end back in Orochimarus lair Karin finally shows back up and still to this day Karin still carries a torch for Sasuke a married man with a loving wife and daughter.
(pretty much the same in the Scarlet Springs Manga)
I think this is the biggest slap in the face to Karin after all this time, Karin hasn't moved on or really grown up out of this phase of her life especially when her feelings for Sasuke can only be described as nicely as possible as a one sided crush. I remember Nisekoi with Onodera where people said she got the short end of the stick and such, at least Onodera moved on and is running her successful family business and has moved on from Raku and isn't still wanting him while being friends with Chitoge unlike Karin.
And even if Kishmoto didn't want to go down this path there was an easy off ramp to help get Karin away from being such a dominate Sasuke centric character.
Karin is a Uzamaki and seemingly the only living member outside of Naruto of the Uzamaki Clan now that Nagato/Pain died, one of Naruto biggest pains growing up was having no family, no friends no one really there for him hell its one of the things that really does help bond him and Sasuke together is that shared trauma/hardship its a major point of Road to Ninja that Naruto wishes he had a family.
Naruto didn't get much time to spend with Pain but they did come to some kind of understanding with one another even if he died shortly there after and that he kill Pervey Sage.
With Karin I don't think they even spoke to one another or have had any scenes together in the Naruto anime or in Boruto its such a same cause why establish they come from the same clan if at no point do you really do anything with it or have them interact.
In the end I think its simple, Kishimoto had an idea for Team Hawk but in the process he never really devoted the time to really give Team Hawk any time to bond and even with the story ideas and characters he did give them such as Suigetsu with the Seven Mist Kishimoto pretty much abandoned them or never even focused on them to really make them feel empty.
Even the aforementioned Sai got resolution with his Brother, Suigetsu couldn't even get a panel fighting Kisame and his blade got destroyed, Jugo forgot he wanted to see how Sasuke grow and Karin just stayed the same.
Its unfortunate.
Forget about me and leave me for dead if old.
This thread shouldn't be as dumb and a bit more analytical looking at the aspect of the series that I talked with my brother Dale Copper with that I think just didn't work in Naruto but we sat down and thought really....why did Team Hawk exist?
To give a brief Summery of this....team?
Team Hawk was formed by Sasuke after he killed Orochimaru, Sasuke went around to various lairs/jails of Orochimaru's and recruited people to help him on his mission to find and kill Itachi and later on to help him in his Revenge/Avenger life.
Suigetsu: A man who was captured and has the power to turn himself into Water that Sasuke freed.
Karin: A Jailer/Warden for Orochimaru that watched over one of his facilities
Jugo: An man who was an experiment test subject for Orochimaru's Seals
Simple enough.
Now, I would like to focus on why Kishimoto felt to create these characters and this team before I really go into what went wrong/didn't work out with these characters.
Creation/Reason:
I say second attempt cause in many ways, Team Hawk is Kishimotos second attempt at creating and reestablishing a classic dynamic that helped out early Naruto so much.
TEAM 7
When Sasuke left the village Team 7 was without a core member of the 4 person squad and during the first arc of the timeskip the Save Gaara Arc, Kishimoto stuck with this squad of just Naruto, Sakura and Kakashi as the core main characters of that arc.
I think Kishimoto felt like he was missing something here, for most of the series up too this point all arcs had the same 3-4 person structure/dynamic that had characters work of one another from Naruto & Sasuke pissing contest, to Naruto and Sakura, Sasuke and Sakura you name it.
The Save Gaara arc really didn't have a character and vice versa for Naruto to bounce off of neither did Sakura really until the old puppet medic lady joined her and she wasn't going to be a counting character.
After this arc wrapped up Kishimoto began his first try at replicating the previous dynamic.
Sai in alot of ways is a carbon copy of Sasuke.:
- pretty Boy
- talented
- aloof
- dark hair
- fights with Naruto
- Ladies (at least Ino) love him
- has a dark/storied past with his brother
- isn't a pervert like Sasuke
Sai was created to help fill the void Sasuke left in the series by being evil.
Yamato was there to add a new teacher role to the series with some flavors of Kakashi
- Skilled and recognized Ninja of the Leaf
- Secret/Special Power that makes him unique compared to all his pears
- Teacher Role
As I said they were the first attempt at recreating this dynamic and just lile Team Hawk I don't think it worked out all to well but I will have more to say on this later.
So Sasuke forms his own group and team and what do we get....
Karin/Sakura:
- Smart Girl
- Both colorful hair (I know the pic doesn't show it to well but Karin has bright red hair.
- Both have crazy thoughts
- Both have are Medics
- and the most singular defining trait of each...a love/affection for Sasuke
My next two there some reaching but I just noticed similarities
Jugo/Naruto:
- Bright Colorful spiky hair (Orange vs Yellow)
- Both have secret dangerous powers that left unchecked/in control is dangerous.
- Both trained/learned from a Sanin to help get there powers under control
- Both have seals
Suigetsu/Kakashi:
- Both have similar hair (one is White and the other Silver)
- Both have strange powers that are pretty much unique to them.
And even during the brief...brief times you get to see all of Team Hawk together we see a similar dynamics to the original Team 7 jsut have Suigetsu have Narutos personality and bit and Jugo have Kakshis more reserved nature.
Team Hawk was not only created to give Sasuke someone to work off of/interact with, this team would be crutial to tracking down Itachi and chasing his goals along with power dynamics.
Naruto himself just in the last arc was able to defeat a member of the Akutski, but he had help from Kakshi, Choji and Ino to help him with his victory but with wheat Kishimoto is building up to Sasuke vs Itachi he couldn't just have his rival defeat two Akutski members all on his own he needed help to accomplish his goals.
While true that power levels are BS, mangakas do have there own scale of power and where certain characters are at, I feel that in Kishis mind Sasuke wasn't ready for this without some help thats why Team Hawk was made.
Add in the effect that creating this team and its hardships and such could have effects on Sasuke Character and leading him to where he wants to go it seems like a win win for Kishi
......so how did that work out.....
WHAT DID TEAM HAWK DO......
Well Sasuke before freeing Suigetsu already made the decision on who will be on his team as he saw what they could do to hunt for Itachi; freeing Suigetsu from his glass prison but before they go to recruit the other they swing by Zabusa grave and we learn Suigetsu has a history with the Seven Swordsmen of the Mist (namely Zabuza) training and wishing to be one of them but also follows Sasuke because there goals have a link.
Karin (who is earlier is introduced with an ass shot), is next being a warden and fellow scientist who experimented on people like Orochimaru but thats quickly shelved aside as we see she has the hots for Edge Eyes.
Jugo went to Orochimaru to help him control his urges where Orochimaru pretty much used what he learned and got from Jugo to make the Cursed Seals as he is pretty much Patient 0 who really only joins Sasuke cause Boneitis died for Sasuke and wants to see what Sasuke becomes.
Sasuke and co get new coats from a cat lady whos grand daughter would later date Kiba (a fate worse than death).
As quickly as they are assembled Sasuke sends them away to go find hints/clues and details on where Itachi is before Sasuke is confronted by Deidara. Team Hawk rendezvouses at the epicenter of Deidara suicide attack and see Sasuke had a plan (thats utter BS) and they take Sasuke somewhere to get healed up.
Water and Love Girl find squat while Jugo thanks to some animals have some idea where Itachi could be, Suigetsu and Karin get into a petty fight that gets Jugo nearly over the edge before Sasuke calms the situation and goes back to sleep.
(Such a compelling likable character)
Karin plans to Drug Suigetsu and Jugo to get some alone time with an injured sleeping Sasuke before they have to get on the run. Thanks to one of the hideouts they learn where Itachi is (Sasuke tells the other to stay out of it angrily) and they move.
15 Chapters later Sasuke catches up to Itachi, but Kisame with Itachi orders tell the others to stay back as Sasuke agrees basically ignoring Karin, as Suigetsu confronts Kisame as Shark man recognizes him as the litte brother of a friend of the Seven Mists with Suigetsu wishing to test out and fight Kisame with the other two protest the fight which we never get to see anything.
(Last we see of them for awhile)
24 Chapters later (besides a chapter where all they do is pose by the water), Team Hawk finally gets a speaking role and seemingly have said nothing or have no qualms about Sasukes change in demeanor and him wanting to pull high off killings that can lead to mass murder.
Kishimoto tries and acts like he was ever gonna do something with Suigetsu thing with the Seven Swords and tries to pick a fight with Kisame again but is stop by Obito and Sasuke tells him to put his dreams on hold till he gets stronger to beat Kisame (so never) as Obito assigns them to go capture B.
(Yes missions to capture important figure that destabilizes entire countries is so calm)
Okay this section of the story finally we can see Team Hawk in action as unlike before with Sasuke ordering the others off or stay put they go to work together as Suigetsu rushes in and gets his blade knocked away by B before Jugo says let me Jugo the guy who has done the least so far lets see what he can do...next panel we see Jugo.
Karin insults B intelligence calling him a dumb oaf while he raps (really shitty here Karin) as Sasuke say he will handle this.
Sasuke puts up a bit of a fight and gets Suigetsus sword back before B styles on Sasuke and skewers him, Suigetsu and Jugo jump in as Karin just being the Medic as support not fighting heals Sasuke as the men go and fight.
After some failed team attacks B goes Chakra tails and bashes Sasuke so hard in the chest along with nearly getting the others, Karin tries to heal Sasuke but Jugo comes up with something like they share seals/bodies and he heals Sasuke not wanting Boneitis memento to die removing Karin from doing something (reminds me when Naruto just stops Gai from dying randomly and not any other medical nin like Sakura).
Shark Boy blocks one of B's attacks before he is quickly dealt with before Sasuke pulls out Black Sun and stops B.
(Well if this isn't contrived I don't know what is)
Through BS Magic Eye powers B is defeated and Sasuke covers for the rest saving them as they leave with B ohh also showing how little they care about Suigetsu dream they leave Zabuzas blade behind.
I sure hope this team work thing sticks...….
Next time we really see Team Hawk there heading to Kohana for the high profile Mass Murder/Political Assassinations but are stopped by Obito and Zetsu who explain to them what has happened from Danzo and Pain so Sasuke changes his destination to the Gokage Meeting.
Sasuke and co just stake out the Gokage summit Karin warns that making the wrong move will get the rest of the Kages on them (to late) as Zetsu lets them now Sasuke is here.
Here Sasuke is consumed by his emo and just straight murks people as his team just sits around watching him kill innocents until Raikage and co are abou to lay the smackdown and save Sasuke at the expense of Suigetsus Blade. Sasuke gives them shit for joining even though they saved him, Jugo seeing the danger goes all out finally we can se what Jugo can do hopefully its good.
Utter ineffectual Jugo is down for the count in two hits as Sasuke get the blonde and fight Raikage and Sui is jsut as bad as Jugo and gets pinned to a wall defeated all the while Karin just plays Sasuke Fan Girl Announcer in her own head as A nearly kill Sasuke but Gaara stops A from killing him and Sause.
Gaara has a more meaningful interaction then anyone in Team Hawk has had with Sasuke, but Sasuke tells Karin to lead him to Danzo leaving the two others to be captured (there even some pointless bits of them trying to disguise themselves but get captured anyway) Karin still follows him cause of hots even though he evil Sasuke has to be saved by Obito good job there Karin go back to what seemingly most of female characters in Naruto can really do heal and support.
Obito shows more care for Karin telling her to stay out of Sasukes fight with Danzo as it begins
Karin spends most of the fight just reacting more on how evil Sasuke is getting forgetting he joined Orochimaru and what Danzo techinque could be as he lives the fatal hits, Karin tries to save Sasuke when he is on the ropes but experiences first hand what Kishimoto thinks of her
But Karin is just explaining stuff to the audience as Sasuke knows what Danzo is doing Sasuke gets his hit in and Danzo tries to use Karin as a hostage as Karin begs sasuke to save her sas the Sause shows how much he cares for her.
Karin even with a stab wound and a cheap flashback that Sasuke saved her sometime when he was still in the Village still has feelings for Sasuke and remarks wanting to see what he looked like back then.
Saskura comes in just before Sasuke kills Karin on Obitos advice but Sasuke orders Sakura to prove her loyality and desire to follow him by killing Karin.
I think here is a good point to end the summery as from here on out its mostly the same so let me just do this quick.
Suigetsu during the war explains he wants to get all the Seven Mist swords and resurrect the group as its leader (ore from this later), Karin escapes from Kohana interrogation, the two boys are unaware Sasuke left them for dead as after some dumb bickering they discover a scroll of Orochimarus in a secret room and become UPS drivers to deliver it to Sasuke.
Karin meets back up with them as Sasuke, Oro and the rest go to revive the Kages Karin falls back to Sasuke can't stay made after he apologizes............
Suigetsu and Jugo do nothing from here on out as Karin does something to the Giant Statue and heals Sasuke then everyone gets wrapped up in the Infinite Dream thing we don't see there dreams ahh well its not like we needed development or see what they wanted that could help them we we could get this
Day is saved & in end....Dog Day for everyone.
No but really I think its pretty clear what went wrong with Team Hawk.
No Heart
To go back to the New team 7 Experiment, while both Sai and Yamato roles changed after the arc where they go and to grab Sasuke from Orochimaru Yamato did lose alot of his significance and for the most part didn't do much at all afterwards besides be a plot point in the war.
Sai on the other hand while his plot line with his brother was sidelined/forgotten till the War Arc, Sai still showed up and had scenes and moments with Naruto and Sakura but the others Kohana residence and even with a diminished role those scenes with Naruto and Sakura showed how much he had changed since he joined up with them.
He was cold and emotionless like Sasuke but warmed up to them and became Friends in his eyes even so much so he doesn't follow Danzo/distrusted the man he used to follow and offers both them emotional support and advice when the realities of what Sasuke has done and become come to light.
Team Hawk not so much we never really get to see them feel like a Team, during the recruitment Sasuke tells them they don't even need to be friends or like one another and he constatnly sends them out or tell them to stay put during the hunt for Itachi.
Sasuke just seems non caring or annoyed when Suigetsu and Karin fight he seems to get along the best with Suigetsu as he seems to get what going on, Karin Sasuke jsut pushes her off every time she tries and gets close with him, with Jugo he never offers support when Jugo has na episode just stare at him angrily with his red eyes.
It really hurts we don't get moment of them talking or just sitting down where they can really talk or bond, like there is nothing like this
There is really no moments for Sasuke or the team to really bond it feels like Sasuke could have just pick up three random people from the street and they be just as close.
And without those moments its hard to buy Sasuke suddenly think of Team 7 when he and the others are fighting B as there is just no comparison.
Even removing Sasuke, Team Hawk isn't close at all as again no moments to really build said bonds and trust especially once Sasuke is more evil during the Gokage Meeting. Sasuke leaves Suigetsu and Jugo to be captured not caring what happens to them and he just used karin as a tool and planned to kill her.
Yet when they all do meet up back again its never really brought up or Karin not having so much hesitation to trusting Sasuke if all it takes is some apology and she is back to glomping right on him considering he nearly killed her.
RESOLUTION
I know at one point Kishimotos plan was to have Team Hawk be killed by B to help push Sasuke down the darker path, I do think it was the right idea not to go through with this considering the lack of buildup and moments it would really come off well for Sasuke to have a change of heart from it doesn't help Kishimoto still has Sasuke go darker quick from the Capture B stuff to the Gokage Meeting pretty quick.
But I think its just kind of a waste to just kill off characters just for another Characters growth, it seemed like Kishimoto decided to have them follow there own dreams or see just how Sasuke changing changed them it didn't work but lets break this down by each member.
Suigetsu's goals and dreams are the most clear, its one of the reason why he is the best among Team Hawk. He knew Sasuke wanted Itachi and saw what Sasuke wanted as helping him to as Itachis partner is Kisame, and even before meeting up with Itachi and Kisame Shark Boy makes it clear he wants to fight Kisame and get his sword even though he looks up to the Seven Mist Swordsmen.
But when Suigetsu gets the chance to meet up with and fight with Kisame, Kishimoto shows how little he cares as he just skips it entirely. Kishimoto brings it back up later when Sasuke says Suigetsu will be Kisame one day and that they will fight again but this point is moot cause after Suigetsu leaves to go capture B...Kisame is killed and he never gets his hands on Kisames Sword which makes it worse when you remember Suigetsu gets his/Zabuzas sword destroyed.
Even when it comes to helping out Sasuke he is pretty ineffectual as neither Suigetsu nor anyone else could have been the ones who saved Sasuke from Bullshit Blast, really do much against B nor Raikage.
Suigetsu goal is to gather all the Seven Mist swords and reform the group as the Leader, he never even meets Zabuza when him and the rest of the Seven Swords are revived which just seems like such a waste. While the original intent of the Seven Swords being Mercs for Hire wouldn't be a thing in a Post Ninja World Naruto Suigetsu could have reformed them for a different purpose but it seems like Suigetsu just drops the dream going by Boruto.
He is just hanging with Orochimaru chilling out and helping the mad snake man with his experiments, hell in the Boruto Anime its established Kisame sword is just in a museum and gets stolen not by Suigetsu but by his cousin who plans to use it they couldn't even have (as far as I know) Suigetsu be there to get it back or just take it for sentimental reasons nope Boruto and co just return it to the museum.
Jugo began following Sasuke to see what kind of Ninja the man Boneitis sacrificed himself for to see what kind of person Sasuke would become and maybe he could help him get his episodes under control.
Issue here though is that Jugo is not the one who becomes self reflective or thinks about the changes in Sasuke as times goes on or at least during the Gokage meeting, that is all Karin as she is the one who remarks and thinks just how Sasuke has changed from his smile and such, how he kills indiscriminately to how his chakra has gotten cold.
Jugo is never really reflective about Sasuke he is just along for the ride, I think back to FMA when Mustang is going deeper and deeper into the abyss in his search for Hughes killer.
We see and hear Hawkeyes thoughts and notice the changes how he is slowly losing himself even Ed and Scar are able to see this. I'm not saying I expect Jugo to be the voice of reason to go to such lengths to save Mustang from the abyss like Hakweye did like Ed and Scar pointed out what Mustang has changed into or will become but to not say anything or think how Sasuke has changed and Boneitis sacrifice is so weird.
Even Sasuke doesn't help Jugo get control of his powers/episodes besides jsut anger stares and I don't know about Bortuo here.
Lets not beat around the bush, Karin is the worst member of Team Hawk and arguable one of the worst characters in the entire Naruto series.
I wouldn't be surprised if Kishimoto originally came up with Karin to be a parody of what the fandom thinks of Sakura, just there for Support, Sasuke crazy and just overall kinda useless in utilization except instead of writing it as a joke Kishi decided to play it completely straight.
Karin is here for one thing and one thing only to try and be with Sasuke/nothing but support for Sasuke, her brief flashback is just her getting saved by Sasuke during what I think is supposed to be the Forest of Death and she fell in love with him I know we don't see how Karin get involved with Orochimaru in the manga but I wouldn't be shocked if at one point to just follow the Sakura parody just joined Orochimaru to be with Sasuke.
With Karin being such a Sasuke centric character she gets now time to really develop any back and forth or a bond with Jugo or Suigetsu besides the bickering with Shark Boy she jsut keeps thinking of plans and ploys to get alone time with him like the aforementioned drugging of Jugo and Suigetsu.
Problem is Sasuke has no intrest in Karin romantically or even to get close to be a friend, every time she tries Sasuke is stand offish or just clearly pushes Karin away telling her to stay back, be quiet, etc.
Alot has been said about Sasuke and Sakura relationship be me and many others so I don't want to beat the dead horse some more but at least Sasuke showed and intrest in Sakura he cared about Sakura enough to show intreats in her to help her to thank her, have talks with her, gets anger with her, to bond and develop with Sakura and reveal more about himself
Karin gets nothing.
Look I can get woman falling for Sasuke, but if Kishimoto isn't gonna give them any kind of moments or quiet times and considering how Sasuke treats her and what happens during the Gokage Arc, the least Kishimoto could have done is have Karin be reserved into working with Sasuke again when they meet back up in the village instead of just glomping on him.
With Karin noticing Sasuke chakra and stuff Kishimoto could have had Karin see Sasukes Chakra and actions and see that he has changed but no see just quickly accepts him which considering Sasuke tried to kill her just paints Karin as a battered woman syndrome.
Worst is even after everything going into Scarlet Springs (a brief 10 Chapter or so series following Sarada), at the end back in Orochimarus lair Karin finally shows back up and still to this day Karin still carries a torch for Sasuke a married man with a loving wife and daughter.
(pretty much the same in the Scarlet Springs Manga)
I think this is the biggest slap in the face to Karin after all this time, Karin hasn't moved on or really grown up out of this phase of her life especially when her feelings for Sasuke can only be described as nicely as possible as a one sided crush. I remember Nisekoi with Onodera where people said she got the short end of the stick and such, at least Onodera moved on and is running her successful family business and has moved on from Raku and isn't still wanting him while being friends with Chitoge unlike Karin.
And even if Kishmoto didn't want to go down this path there was an easy off ramp to help get Karin away from being such a dominate Sasuke centric character.
Karin is a Uzamaki and seemingly the only living member outside of Naruto of the Uzamaki Clan now that Nagato/Pain died, one of Naruto biggest pains growing up was having no family, no friends no one really there for him hell its one of the things that really does help bond him and Sasuke together is that shared trauma/hardship its a major point of Road to Ninja that Naruto wishes he had a family.
Naruto didn't get much time to spend with Pain but they did come to some kind of understanding with one another even if he died shortly there after and that he kill Pervey Sage.
With Karin I don't think they even spoke to one another or have had any scenes together in the Naruto anime or in Boruto its such a same cause why establish they come from the same clan if at no point do you really do anything with it or have them interact.
In the end I think its simple, Kishimoto had an idea for Team Hawk but in the process he never really devoted the time to really give Team Hawk any time to bond and even with the story ideas and characters he did give them such as Suigetsu with the Seven Mist Kishimoto pretty much abandoned them or never even focused on them to really make them feel empty.
Even the aforementioned Sai got resolution with his Brother, Suigetsu couldn't even get a panel fighting Kisame and his blade got destroyed, Jugo forgot he wanted to see how Sasuke grow and Karin just stayed the same.
Its unfortunate.
Forget about me and leave me for dead if old.
