Nov 1, 2017
1,365
So there's been a lot of talk lately about how games choose to promote themselves, i.e. trailers. And the eternal back and forth between CGI trailers with the omnipresent "this trailer does not represent in game footage" marker in a corner of the screen and so called "gameplay" trailers that a lot of the time aren't even genuine representations of actual gameplay.

Firstly, let's go back to basics. What is the purpose of a trailer? In its most simple form it's to promote a product to a consumer who ideally then contributes to the company behind that product in whatever method they are looking to financially benefit from said consumer, through a game sale or by being inspired to buy a console or subscribe to a service or whatever it might be. It is in the company's best interest to show off their product in the best way they can, a lot of trailers for games specifically choose to do so in the form of CGI trailers, opting to represent themes and ideas as opposed to "this is what it's is like to actually play this game". And this style of trailer can be very successful, Death Stranding I think it's safe to say is the most famous example of this kind of game promotion and I would argue that for some games its impossible for a simple trailer to represent what it's like to play a game regardless of how many gameplay trailers they release. How does a game like Celeste convey the "feel" of how the game plays? I had seen Celeste in action so had a limited grasp on what it was, i.e. a platformer but it wasn't until I sat down and actually played the thing that I came to appreciate the mechanics, level design and how it all came together for me to get a real idea of what it was like to play that game.

Now there is this viewpoint that a CGI trailer is an inferior way to show off and promote a game, that the only way to "legitimately" promote a game is through gameplay. Which I can understand the idea behind it but the reality is that gameplay trailers rarely if ever provide a proper representation of gameplay anyway, and in the case of unfinished games is it even fair to demand that of game companies? I want to briefly draw some parallels between gaming and the other medium that it is most commonly compared to: Movies. How many times do you see a trailer for a movie where the CGI is so early that it obviously looks unfinished and not representative of the final quality of the movie? I would say rarely if ever (except maybe for Sonic the Hedgehog but that's a whole other kettle of fish). There is that famous case of X-Men Origins: Wolverine being leaked with the most basic PS2 level of CGI. The person who leaked that went to jail, the film industry does not fuck about when it comes to protecting their investments.

My point is: Why do gamers have this unrealistic expectation of trailers for videogames and how they should be promoted to consumers? Halo Infinite is the most obvious recent example of a game that is obviously unfinished being shown off and people are dragging it to hell and memeing it because it doesn't look polished enough for them yet. Can you blame any game company for being reluctant to "honestly" promote their products to consumers when this is the kind of reception it often gets? You don't see movie companies showing off unfinished CGI for movies in the same way that music isn't promoted with rough cut demos or books promoted with first drafts before being edited etc etc etc. This seems to be something unique to videogames and I think it is down to how immature the gaming industry is in comparison to other forms of media.

The other thing I want to say is that the fabled "gameplay trailer" is in most cases pretty much nonsense anyway. They are carefully created and scripted vertical slices of games designed to show off the game in the best way possible in the same sense that a CGI trailer is supposed to. You have the classic "I'm going to slowly move around and show off things and make it looks vaguely cinematic" style of gameplay trailer and, let's be honest, no one plays games like that. It would be more accurate for them to show off some clumsy looking gameplay, constantly sprinting, actually dying or failing etc. Often these so called gameplay trailers are missing a proper HUD or there are other obvious things which are a dead giveaway. Also think of how many things can go wrong with a legitimate gameplay demo. Assassin's Creed 4 Black Flag full on crashed when it was being shown off at E3. I find it extremely interesting that these days all these gameplay demos don't have any flaws or glitches or fuckups that can cause embaressment. Oh wait, no I don't, cause it's all faked. Then there are those cringey Ubisoft style gameplay demos with the fake gamer chat. I mean look at The Division 2's E3 2018 "Gameplay" trailer. A lot of that trailer is utter bollocks and as far as gameplay goes it might as well just be a CGI trailer for how representative of the game it is. Or hell, look at Anthem's gameplay demo. Or <insert most gameplay trailers here>

So let's not fetishize "gameplay" trailers as the only legitimate way to promote a game. The point of trailers is promotion, CGI or otherwise. And if a game does show off footage from an unfinished game maybe don't lose your god damned minds because the lighting isn't perfect yet or a puddle doesn't look the same in the finished game or the framerate isn't a locked 60 FPS or whatever it is you want to try to do to tear down the hard work of something that a team of people often work long hours to make for the enjoyment of others. Or wait until there is a demo if you really want to know what a game is actually like before you buy it. Unless that game demo is Metal Gear Solid 2.

Thanks for coming to my TED Talk.

Disclaimer: I'm being completely facetious on that one, MGS2's demo is actually a great representation of MGS 2 as a whole and the Snake bait and switch thing is genius IMO.
 

2Blackcats

Member
Oct 26, 2017
16,589
I don't think most of us have unrealistic expectations.

It's how these various types of trailers are used. A sprinkling of CGI trailers in a conference to introduce us to a few games is fine. Basing your conference around them isn't.

I mean, we all know this. Either the person planning the show is surrounded by yes persons or they knew what they were doing and thought the backlash would be worth it.

(If Halo had blown minds as expected no one would give a shit anyway)
 
Jul 18, 2018
6,148
... My point is: Why do gamers have this unrealistic expectation of trailers for videogames and how they should be promoted to consumers? Halo Infinite is the most obvious recent example of a game that is obviously unfinished being shown off and people are dragging it to hell and memeing it because it doesn't look polished enough for them yet. Can you blame any game company for being reluctant to "honestly" promote their products to consumers when this is the kind of reception it often gets? . ...

This event is basically trying to persuade consumers into getting their next gen console. So can you blame consumers for getting angry that Microsoft didn't fully disclose to them the hardware they are trying to sell them by showcasing graphic fidelity. Take your biggest franchise, show it off as gameplay video with no disclaimer saying what build it was from and then say this is why you should by the new XBox
 

Sanox

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,745
Cgi trailers are fine as long as it doesn't take too long before the actual game is shown after.

Cgi trailers at events hyping up next gen have no purpose. You aren't just here to announce a new game you are here to show what your next gen system can do. A cg trailer shows me nothing of this.

And lets not get started on those super early announced games. The Pragmata reveal was cool but its a cg trailer for a game coming out in 2022 what I am supppsed to take away from this trailer. Hell by the time we see the game it might have gone through design changes and not even look like the announcement trailer
 
Oct 27, 2017
44,196
Expecting to see what you, as a player curious at a product in an interactive medium, will actually be seeing as you play is an "unrealistic expectation"? If it's too early just don't show anything
 

ThreepQuest64

Avenger
Oct 29, 2017
5,735
Germany
You have the classic "I'm going to slowly move around and show off things and make it looks vaguely cinematic" style of gameplay trailer and, let's be honest, no one plays games like that.
But it's how you could play it, at least in some instances. And either way it shows what you actually going to do in the game and how it looks like and give you the first sense of how it feels. I don't care about puddles or some animations or how polished it looks, although, naturally, you have to face legitimate criticism depending on how far you're from release.

There are still video games so I don't know about that cinema comparison and the "immaturity" of video games because they are inherently different. But for many people gameplay is one of the most important things a game has to offer and CGI trailers usually tell us none of that, nothing at all. And even if gameplay trailers show graphics that often get downgraded later on you still recognise the game and it looks close enough to what you're actually doing in the game if you show it to someone who doesn't look at every brick and stone. CGI on the other hand, looks often nothing like the final game, are usually cutscenes that don't tell you anything about the gameplay either. In that sense it's often worse than what you criticize some gameplay demos for, that they won't look like the final game, to which I disagree. I know what you mean with the flawlessness of said demos and that they often feel overly cinematic but still, you see a big chunk of what you'll actuall do later in the game – one if not the pillar the game is constructed on.

I think no one ever said that gameplay is the only legitimate way to present your game, so your premise might be flawed from the beginning. But many people want to see gameplay because that's what many people buy their games for. If we get additional teasters, CGI or whatever, then that's cool. Maybe I'm the only one but you rarely get me hyped with CGI only.
 

Kthulhu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,670
There is also the fact that developers have to set aside time and money to make gameplay demos that could otherwise be used on the final game. In that sense CG trailers are way better when in earlier stages of development.

Films occasionally use unfinished VFX in their trailers, but not always. Usually the scenes in the trailers will be the ones that are already done for the film.
 

Bufbaf

Don't F5!
Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,415
Hamburg, Germany
They're fine as long as it's clearly stated it's not the actual game.

Accordingly, fuck AAA studios trying to fake gameplay visuals they know they won't achieve, just making shit up and adding effects and layers that won't be in the final product, only to show downgrades nearing launch without any comment on it (if even that).

Just be honest, jeez.
 

hrœrekr

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
May 3, 2019
1,655
There is also the fact that developers have to set aside time and money to make gameplay demos that could otherwise be used on the final game. In that sense CG trailers are way better when in earlier stages of development.

Films occasionally use unfinished VFX in their trailers, but not always. Usually the scenes in the trailers will be the ones that are already done for the film.

You don't need to deploy gameplay demos to add gameplay footage in your trailer.
We just need some bits of actual gameplay sprinkled through the cutscenes parts. Otherwise, it does not resonate with players (at least with me).
 

Kthulhu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,670
Cgi trailers are fine as long as it doesn't take too long before the actual game is shown after.

Cgi trailers at events hyping up next gen have no purpose. You aren't just here to announce a new game you are here to show what your next gen system can do. A cg trailer shows me nothing of this.

And lets not get started on those super early announced games. The Pragmata reveal was cool but its a cg trailer for a game coming out in 2022 what I am supppsed to take away from this trailer. Hell by the time we see the game it might have gone through design changes and not even look like the announcement trailer

Keep in mind they're also trying to create the perception that the Series X will have a large library at or shortly after launch, which is pretty important when marketing a new system. It also serves as better promotion for GamePass.
 

Mirage

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,840
I'm fine with cgi trailers existing but the older I get the less personal interest I have in watching them.
 

Kthulhu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,670
You don't need to deploy gameplay demos to add gameplay footage in your trailer.
We just need some bits of actual gameplay sprinkled through the cutscenes parts. Otherwise, it does not resonate with players (at least with me).

That's far easier said then done. Showing gameplay requires a build to exist, even if it's not a full playable demo and is just a highly scripted section. Making that build takes time and money from the main game, which like I said is why so many companies announce games with a CG trailer.

Nothing is wrong with finding this boring or just not very hype (I'm the same way), but I understand the reality of development enough to tolerate it.
 

armadillopoke

Banned
May 14, 2020
342
I don't get especially hyped for CGI trailers, but I think my biggest problem with trailers isn't even covered in this thread, which is showing us a trailer designed to be as misleading as possible. If you're showing us something that doesn't look how the game will look, make that clear. Don't try to insinuate that the game could look like that when you know it wont. The problem with MS's approach is that after Halo's reveal yesterday, not only do I now think the game looks bad, I also no longer can take their "in-engine" trailers in good faith.

DO SAY: 'this is not representative of the final game'.
DON'T SAY: 'made in-engine'.
 

LavaBadger

Member
Nov 14, 2017
5,067
I continue to feel CG trailers are total BS, and if I never saw another, I would be very pleased. At best, they give you the suggestion of a games style or world. At worst, they are straight up false marketing intended to make you think a game will look like or do something it never will. And the whole trend of "This is all in-engine" is just an extension if what's being show isn't a realistic slice of a scene you would actually see "in-engine."

If a game is not in a state where you can show actual content from within the game, or you're not using in-game assets to show off your game, then you shouldn't be showing anything at all.

I would take a poor looking, in-progress Halo trailer any day of the week over a Senua trailer that shows me nothing about the actual game even if it looks pretty.
 

Mariolee

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
10,696
After reading your OP, I want to post more thoughts later, but I first want to say that I think there's something to Nintendo Directs being better received and the relative dearth of CGI trailers being in them. The main exception being the Nintendo Direct the E3 after Nintendo Switch launched. There's a wisdom there in waiting until the game is ready before you show it, and then releasing it a few months later even if it means "starving" your fans like Nintendo fans feel.

That said, a CGI trailer has never sold me on a video game but I can see how it can sell the casual gaming public.
 

Wackamole

Member
Oct 27, 2017
17,126
Complete waste of recources, time and money imo.
Stop with cgi trailers. You're not a movie director. Your medium is interactive.
The only thing i want to see is how the game really looks while playing.

Have there been great cgi game trailers? Sure. I can only think of a handful at best though.
Ultimately they mean nothing to me though. So save yourself some budget that you can spend on the actual game.
 
Last edited:
Oct 27, 2017
6,302
I honestly don't think there's a right way to do it.

People demand to see gameplay, but then when gameplay is shown there seems to be an equally vocal swell of people who have problems with whatever is shown. The Halo Infinite reveal is a decent example, where people wanted to see gameplay which now wasn't exciting enough, or looked slow or bland, or that individual mechanics looked boring. Similar has happened with Cyberpunk's gameplay reveals too as a notable example.

Generally speaking, I don't think gamers know what the hell they want about anything until it's actually given to them and they either like it or they don't.
 

Orioto

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,716
Paris
What's missing from the OP pov i think is..
There are 2 different context for game trailers. During the console life time, you have game trailers that are meant to excite people for incoming gamers, and then, they can be whatever really, depending on how early it is.
And then, there is a console launch, a next gen launch. This is a tad different there. Halo Infinite is not just "look at the new Halo" or it shouldn't be at least, but clearly Microsoft seems to focus on games and not hardware at all. But Halo Infinite is meant to show curious and thirsty people what games are going to look for the next 7 years. It's not just game pr here, it's the entire next gen pr for Microsoft.
So, not being ready, having an old build, or this or that, i don't care what their excuses are. This is an economic war, and a fierce one, and the consequences will be terrible for the console, if Microsoft even care. The fact that those memes will probably be the first time some mainstream gamer ever hear about the new xbox, it's a damn long term mess.
 

TheWildCard

Member
Jun 6, 2020
2,482
There's nothing wrong with CG trailers, especially for the first announcement of a game that wants to sell a pitch of the tone and concept. That said, there really was too little gameplay for a showcase that is supposed sell consumers on a new machine coming out this year. I can't even guess how the Rare game will actually play for example.
 

hrœrekr

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
May 3, 2019
1,655
I honestly don't think there's a right way to do it.

People demand to see gameplay, but then when gameplay is shown there seems to be an equally vocal swell of people who have problems with whatever is shown. The Halo Infinite reveal is a decent example, where people wanted to see gameplay which now wasn't exciting enough, or looked slow or bland, or that individual mechanics looked boring. Similar has happened with Cyberpunk's gameplay reveals too as a notable example.

And how do you think a CGI trailer will help with that?
 

Dragoon

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
11,231
I love CGI trailers, when done right. SE does them exceptionally well. What I don't like is CGI trailers shown as 'gameplay' where you're not sure if that's how the game will play or not. It's fine if it's a trailer right before it comes since you know the gist of it, I don't like it when it shows something totally different.

For a game unveil, I think the best to go about it is 2 minute story trailer, 5-8 minute gameplay trailer right after like Horizon's.
 
Oct 27, 2017
6,302
And how do you think a CGI trailer will help with that?

I don't. Like I said, I don't think there is a right way to do it, broadly because gamers don't know what they want.

What I think would help would be an increased level of maturity and more reasonable, level headed expectations and reactions to developers work within the gaming community. However I'm not completely delusional so..
 

Kthulhu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,670
Complete waste of recources, time and money imo.
Stop with cgi trailers. You're not a movie director. Your medium is interactive.
The only thing i want to see is how the game really looks while playing.

Have there been great cgi game trailers? Sure.
Ultimately they mean nothing to me though. So save yourself some budget that you can spend on the actual game.

It isn't a waste though. It is far more costly to put out a new build from a product management standpoint vs cutting a CG trailer.
 

hrœrekr

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
May 3, 2019
1,655
That's far easier said then done. Showing gameplay requires a build to exist, even if it's not a full playable demo and is just a highly scripted section. Making that build takes time and money from the main game, which like I said is why so many companies announce games with a CG trailer.

Nothing is wrong with finding this boring or just not very hype (I'm the same way), but I understand the reality of development enough to tolerate it.

Internal test builds with mall segments are common during development. Even running in Editor.
How can you develop if you can't run it?

If they aren't good enough to show, then is too early and you shouldn't show your product to consumers at all.
 

Wackamole

Member
Oct 27, 2017
17,126
It isn't a waste though. It is far more costly to put out a new build from a product management standpoint vs cutting a CG trailer.
It is a waste. Just wait until you have something to show. That trailer does nothing in the end and only costs money. You might as well put out a tweet "We're working on it and we expect to show gameplay in (whatever date). Here is a screenshot".
 

Sandersson

Banned
Feb 5, 2018
2,535
My point is: Why do gamers have this unrealistic expectation of trailers for videogames and how they should be promoted to consumers?
I honestly dont understand how stuff like this needs a thread. People like CGI trailers, people like gameplay trailers. Nothing wrong with either and a good balance of both is appreciated. When you release anything, it will be criticized no matter the medium.

On the other hand people hate CGI trailers that are trying to pass as gameplay ala the infamous KZ2 reveal. Those Ubisoft trailers are also pretty cringe, but atleast you see what the product actually looks.

Also this line of thinking:
Can you blame any game company for being reluctant to "honestly" promote their products to consumers when this is the kind of reception it often gets?
Is extremely dangerous since you could draw parallels to trans and social issues etc.
 

chrisPjelly

Avenger
Oct 29, 2017
10,703
It's also a matter of trust in a developer/publisher a fan has. For something like Bayonetta 3 to have a teaser, it's completely fine to put out a trailer because "of course it will be good, it's Platinum".

New IPs should not get any benefit of the doubt, and that goes doubly so for dormant franchises that are being passed off to new developers like Fable.
 

Kthulhu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,670
Internal test builds with mall segments are common during development. Even running in Editor.
How can you develop if you can't run it?

If they aren't good enough to show, then is too early and you shouldn't show your product to consumers at all.

There is a big difference between "good enough to play for development" and "good enough play for an auditorium full of consumers ignorant of the dev process". It'd be a PR disaster.



It is a waste. Just wait until you have something to show. That trailer does nothing in the end and only costs money. You might as well put out a tweet "We're working on it and we expect to show gameplay in (whatever date). Here is a screenshot".

Even the screenshot takes a lot of work. Also that's just shitty marketing and won't work for smaller games. See the video I embedded above for a better explanation.
 

NaDannMaGoGo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,311
I don't get these "it's the consumers fault that they aren't getting hyped in exactly the way they're supposed to!" threads.

If they messed up their PR that's on them. All kinds of things got hyped frequently prior to the stream.

Consumers getting mad at other consumers for not getting hyped enough by marketing, while never getting mad when those consumers get hyped more than they probably should be, is plain stupid.
 

est1992

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,365
This is the best CGI trailer to me. Really set the stage for the game and gave you and idea how it plays. Everything you do in the trailer you do on the game. That's how they should be.

 
OP
OP
Nov 1, 2017
1,365
What's missing from the OP pov i think is..
There are 2 different context for game trailers. During the console life time, you have game trailers that are meant to excite people for incoming gamers, and then, they can be whatever really, depending on how early it is.
And then, there is a console launch, a next gen launch. This is a tad different there. Halo Infinite is not just "look at the new Halo" or it shouldn't be at least, but clearly Microsoft seems to focus on games and not hardware at all. But Halo Infinite is meant to show curious and thirsty people what games are going to look for the next 7 years. It's not just game pr here, it's the entire next gen pr for Microsoft.
So, not being ready, having an old build, or this or that, i don't care what their excuses are. This is an economic war, and a fierce one, and the consequences will be terrible for the console, if Microsoft even care. The fact that those memes will probably be the first time some mainstream gamer ever hear about the new xbox, it's a damn long term mess.

This is a good point in that the expectations for games to promote a new console are different from just a standard trailer for say a game in the middle of a console's life cycle but i disagree with the idea that these games need to represent the next 7 years or however long the next gen lasts for. There's two sides to this, specficially for cross gen games you're never going to get the same kind of fidelity or what have you versus something that was built from the ground up for the next generation and this is where it does get interesting in Sony's approach to limited cross gen games in comparison to Microsoft's blurred generations approach. So it's not really a fair comparison. The other thing i would say is that it takes time for developers to fully unlock the potential of game consoles. If you compare games from the beginning of this gen to what they look like now at the tail end it's night and day. Forza Motorsport 5 looks frankly amaterish compared to the newer Forza games or Forza Horizon 4. There's a marked difference even between say the current gen versions of Assassin's Creed Black Flag and Unity which wasn't that much further into the generation and then we have Origins and Odyssey which are breathtaking.

But i do agree that the trailers for both the PS5 and Xbox showcases needed to do more heavy lifting in that they had to double as both promotion for themselves and for generating interest in the new gen to come. Honestly, in that respect i think both Sony and Microsoft failed in that regard.
 

Boy

Member
Apr 24, 2018
4,717
I really like how Horizon Zero Dawn was introduced back in 2015 and i feel like that should just be the blueprint on how new games should be introduced.
A small cgi trailer at the beginning to show us the concept, followed by a short gameplay demo of some actual gameplay.
 
OP
OP
Nov 1, 2017
1,365
But it's how you could play it, at least in some instances. And either way it shows what you actually going to do in the game and how it looks like and give you the first sense of how it feels. I don't care about puddles or some animations or how polished it looks, although, naturally, you have to face legitimate criticism depending on how far you're from release.

There are still video games so I don't know about that cinema comparison and the "immaturity" of video games because they are inherently different. But for many people gameplay is one of the most important things a game has to offer and CGI trailers usually tell us none of that, nothing at all. And even if gameplay trailers show graphics that often get downgraded later on you still recognise the game and it looks close enough to what you're actually doing in the game if you show it to someone who doesn't look at every brick and stone. CGI on the other hand, looks often nothing like the final game, are usually cutscenes that don't tell you anything about the gameplay either. In that sense it's often worse than what you criticize some gameplay demos for, that they won't look like the final game, to which I disagree. I know what you mean with the flawlessness of said demos and that they often feel overly cinematic but still, you see a big chunk of what you'll actuall do later in the game – one if not the pillar the game is constructed on.

I think no one ever said that gameplay is the only legitimate way to present your game, so your premise might be flawed from the beginning. But many people want to see gameplay because that's what many people buy their games for. If we get additional teasters, CGI or whatever, then that's cool. Maybe I'm the only one but you rarely get me hyped with CGI only.

The issue is this isn't always the case. Some of these tightly scripted gameplay demos are in no way representative of the final product and are frankly worse than CGI trailers. No one looks at the cinematography of a well directed CGI trailer and thinks this is what the game is going to actually look like, whereas people can be entirely fooled by a so called "gameplay" trailer. I'm going to keep putting gameplay in quotes because I legitimately don't believe the majority of them are true gameplay.

Case in point: Bioshock Infinite:




Look at this glorious "gameplay" demo of a game that when it came out bore very little resemblance to what was shown in this video. I find this much worse than CGI trailers because of the perception that a gameplay trailer is a more authentic representation when in fact it is so much more dishonest than your average CGI trailer.

I'd recommend this article on E3 gameplay demos:
kotaku.com

The Real Stories Behind E3’s Glossy Game Demos

You only get one chance to make a first impression, and for many games, that happens at E3. The annual mega show is nearly upon us, and developers are spending days and nights putting together flashy demos to convince us to open our wallets. What’s real? What’s fake? Maybe both? I asked some...

Honestly after reading that I don't know why people would ever make a distinction between so called gameplay trailers and CGI trailers. They're one and the same, just a tool to promote a game. They should be treated as such and neither should be held in any higher regard than the other.
 

calibos

Member
Dec 13, 2017
2,164
Really you are damned if you do and damned if you don't in today's internet tribal mob culture.

I would just say that your messaging around whatever you show better be very concise.

Fable is a good example. The "Fable" studio was being built and staffed less than 2 years ago but the internet actually expected to see some gameplay blowout or something and are trashing MS for just showing a trailer. Most of MS acquisitions are less than 2 years old and they are all getting shit on in some way or another for showing teasers. It's really just a messaging issue though...MS is hyping things up in the wrong way that are still in early production.
 

Mighty Twig

Member
May 13, 2020
165
Personally I don't love CGI trailers but they serve a purpose to me as a tone setter for the game and what to expect the mood or atmosphere to be. I don't see why it's such a passionate topic of contention. For example the Fable trailer I thought was perfect. My fears of a serious photorealistic Fable have been extinguished and we got the beautiful fairytale vibe I wanted to see. I'll give you an example of a not so good one though: Elder Scrolls VI.

Obviously I would like to see the gameplay for Fable but these rollouts seem to be calculated and could be upended by common toxic gamer dogpile discourse that runs rampant on twitter, YouTube, and in Resetera which my understanding was that we are "enthusiasts", now I'm not so sure. We come off as overly negative about things that are meant to be fun and we supposedly to enjoy. Now imagine having to show an old build that is NOT your best work to rabid gamers just ready to be pounce with anger and criticism. It's a tough spot.

I also think that how critical we are about a CGI trailer or "in-engine footage" is largely dependent on who does it. For example, I didn't see much scrutiny over the ONE thing we've seen from Elden Ring, and that is still MIA. I loved that trailer!

All I ask is that every trailer come with an estimated release year. If you can't give that, it's too early.

In conclusion, dogpiles are bad, don't drag developers through the mud for gameplay/in-engine cutscenes/CGI demonstrations, enjoy video games, and maybe MAYBE include expected release year on your trailers.
 

monmagman

Member
Dec 6, 2018
4,126
England,UK
The best thing about cgi trailers are people on here's reactions to them.....one guy yesterday declared State of Decay 3 looked "fantastic",lol.
 

bbg_g

Member
Jun 21, 2020
808
I don't have a problem with CGI trailers as teasers. I have a problem with CGI title trailers. I don't need a video just to show off a title of a video game to confirm it's in the works. The best approach in my opinion is to set the tone of the game and the foundation of some of it's world then follow up with shots of what the gameplay will resemble if you can't show actual gameplay. If you're going to release a bunch of CGI trailers I'd prefer it if there wasn't an event. Just release them on an official blog or article.
 

ThreepQuest64

Avenger
Oct 29, 2017
5,735
Germany
The issue is this isn't always the case. Some of these tightly scripted gameplay demos are in no way representative of the final product and are frankly worse than CGI trailers. No one looks at the cinematography of a well directed CGI trailer and thinks this is what the game is going to actually look like, whereas people can be entirely fooled by a so called "gameplay" trailer. I'm going to keep putting gameplay in quotes because I legitimately don't believe the majority of them are true gameplay.

Case in point: Bioshock Infinite:




Look at this glorious "gameplay" demo of a game that when it came out bore very little resemblance to what was shown in this video. I find this much worse than CGI trailers because of the perception that a gameplay trailer is a more authentic representation when in fact it is so much more dishonest than your average CGI trailer.

I'd recommend this article on E3 gameplay demos:
kotaku.com

The Real Stories Behind E3’s Glossy Game Demos

You only get one chance to make a first impression, and for many games, that happens at E3. The annual mega show is nearly upon us, and developers are spending days and nights putting together flashy demos to convince us to open our wallets. What’s real? What’s fake? Maybe both? I asked some...

Honestly after reading that I don't know why people would ever make a distinction between so called gameplay trailers and CGI trailers. They're one and the same, just a tool to promote a game. They should be treated as such and neither should be held in any higher regard than the other.

But here you generalise heavily. Of course there are gameplay demos that are nothing like the real deal. But while CGI never show gameplay there's a chance I see real gameplay in those "gameplay demos".
 

hrœrekr

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
May 3, 2019
1,655
There is a big difference between "good enough to play for development" and "good enough play for an auditorium full of consumers ignorant of the dev process". It'd be a PR disaster.

Even the screenshot takes a lot of work. Also that's just shitty marketing and won't work for smaller games. See the video I embedded above for a better explanation.

I agree with you.
But then wouldn't be better to not show at all because is so early in development?
 

Dekuman

Member
Oct 27, 2017
19,339
As long as it's clearly marked as not in-game footage, usage of CGI is fine, but I have noticed a trend to rely entirely on CGI because there is no gameplay to show and the purpose is just to hype people up in a presentation. At that point, might as well just do a title reveal and not mislead people with just CGI if the game is many years out. As most of these CGI trailers are really just some sweeping pullback into a title card reveal anyways, except the scenery are not in game and all CGI.
 

Kthulhu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,670
I agree with you.
But then wouldn't be better to not show at all because is so early in development?

Considering the alternative is not showing a lot of the game resulting in less people knowing about it, probably not. I'm not a marketing expert or anything so I couldn't tell you how exactly it should be done, I just know gameplay isn't easy to do vs having a CG trailer made. If they waited till the game was done to show gameplay I'd imagine such crucial info so close to release would probably not help with raising awareness or convincing people to buy the game.
 

Deleted member 29682

User requested account closure
Banned
Nov 1, 2017
12,290
I think CGI trailers are best used when you want to sell themes/ideas more than the gameplay itself, and is more valuable for something like strategy games where you'd otherwise just be looking at small units slowly moving across a map or fiddling with tables/graphs.

Take Stellaris for example: that tends to use a lot CGI trailers because it's harder to make an exciting trailer with this sort of gameplay:

te9ad96e3w221.png


when you could make trailers that capture the imagination like this:



As long as actual gameplay footage is available and you're up front about what is/isn't gameplay, CGI trailers can have their place.

Alternatively, you could at least use in-game assets/engine like Total Warhammer does:





even if it's not necessarily representative of the moment-to-moment gameplay.
 

Haze

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,215
Detroit, MI
Companies created this problem for themselves by using CGI and non-gameplay Trailers to promote products.

They've set the expectations not the consumers
 

MonadL

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,956
Honestly at this point I don't really sorry for devs who get criticized for this. Quit announcing games two years before they're ready and you won't have this problem.
 
OP
OP
Nov 1, 2017
1,365
But here you generalise heavily. Of course there are gameplay demos that are nothing like the real deal. But while CGI never show gameplay there's a chance I see real gameplay in those "gameplay demos".

In the cases where gameplay trailers arent too misleading then yeah, sure. I just dont give those kind of trailers any more importance than CGI trailers because there are plenty of Bioshock Infinite's and Alien: Colonial Marines' out there to give a false representation. If the purpose of a trailer is just to convey the theme and general concept of a game to sell that idea then in my mind either CGI/gameplay or a mix of the two will do the job. Just don't see the point in differentiating between the two. I also don't see why certain game companies should be given a harder time for leaning on CGI when others basically get a free pass. I have for instance never seen anyone give Blizzard shit for the way they promote World of Warcraft and as far as i'm aware they rarely if ever do anything other than fancy CGI trailers to announce their expansions.
 

Mona

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
26,151
just dont pass it off as anything other than a thematic representation, including within the content of the trailer

and dont drop a trailer 3 years before the game comes out

Bioshock Infinite for instance was into some bullshit from the very beginning, even the gameplay footage was bullshit