Kurzgesagt - "Why Losing Weight Is So Difficult – The Workout Paradox"

[Pau]

Later on they say "There is one exception to all this – professional athletes". how they're able to just throw that out there is an absolute head scratcher to me, and is something I can't really get over. The line between professional athletes and "regular" people can be a bit blurry, and as a person that exercise a lot more than your average person but not on the level of Olympians I would like to know more.

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I'm not sure were the exact line is, but I think professional athletes exercise about four to six hours a day. That's more than the average person does in a whole week. And the type of exercise affects it too.

Not sure which side you are closer to, but it's kind of mind boggling to consider that I could exercise one hour six days a week and that's still only between 1/4 or 1/6 of what a professional athletes does. The only time in my life when I was even close was middle school when I was on two basketball teams.

 

[behOemoth]

I'm not sure were the exact line is, but I think professional athletes exercise about four to six hours a day. That's more than the average person does in a whole week. And the type of exercise affects it too.

Not sure which side you are closer to, but it's kind of mind boggling to consider that I could exercise one hour six days a week and that's still only between 1/4 or 1/6 of what a professional athletes does. The only time in my life when I was even close was middle school when I was on two basketball teams.

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Professional athletes also grow into the their state of being high performance humans. Most people miss this timeframe.

 

[deathkiller]

I imagine that professional athletes train more than what the body is able to compensate reducing other calory expenditures. Having a "non-sedentary lifestyle" is just not enough to reach that point.

 

[mentok15]

Later on they say "There is one exception to all this – professional athletes". how they're able to just throw that out there is an absolute head scratcher to me, and is something I can't really get over. The line between professional athletes and "regular" people can be a bit blurry, and as a person that exercise a lot more than your average person but not on the level of Olympians I would like to know more.

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Same, when I was at my most active my TDEE was around 4K calories, and I still did a lot less than professional athletes.

 

[The Big Short]

I'm not sure were the exact line is, but I think professional athletes exercise about four to six hours a day. That's more than the average person does in a whole week. And the type of exercise affects it too.

Not sure which side you are closer to, but it's kind of mind boggling to consider that I could exercise one hour six days a week and that's still only between 1/4 or 1/6 of what a professional athletes does. The only time in my life when I was even close was middle school when I was on two basketball teams.

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I actually found that they include some data that answers my question. They include a graph that shows how mortality rates are reduced with exercise, but after a certain point it starts going back up again, as the body starts deprioritizing certain functions like hormone production to keep up with exercise. A typical example that you often hear about (in running circles anyway) is when women start having irregular periods, or stop having them all together. When the body reaches this state the energy expenditure goes back to a more linear increase, according to the research in their link.

 

[Firaga]

Stop trying to lose the weight that you gained over the last 10 years in one month/one year whatever you get the gist of it. It's a marathon, not a sprint. And to have a long lasting result it is a lifestyle change.

Track your calories. Most people don't realize how little calories that we need. To make things even worse most people are really bad at tracking. Oils, condiments and drinks add up quicky and generally not being tracked. After awhile, you don't have to track them religiously anymore because you can guess them quite accurately.

What works for me personally is to weigh myself everyday first thing in the morning after toilet to keep everything as constant as possible. That way, you immediately know when you are heading the wrong way and try to remedy it. You are being held responsible for whatever we did the day before. Also you have to be aware of the salt content of the stuff you ate especially when weighing yourself daily. Salt can make your body retain extra water and it shows in the scale. Some people gets thrown off and discouraged the moment that happens to them. Because it is daily, you will have more fluctuations, but as long as you are going the right way keep at it. You will shave your weight little by little.

You don't get fat in a day so you won't get skinny in a day as well.

 

[Rokuren]

More on the topic of the constrained energy model and exercise energy compensation I've always understood it to be less bleak than Kurzgesagt video shows. I'll note that both the article and the video are from before he joined but remain consistent with what I've heard him discuss after. Dr. Eric Trexler, who currently works in Dr. Herman Pontzer's lab at Duke University, had a decent write up/discussions on the topic https://www.strongerbyscience.com/research-spotlight-energy-compensation/




View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQsAJT1zfXs

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On pro athletes my previous post linked to both an article and a video from a metabolism researcher. The short of it was that it seems exercise energy compensation in part depends on energy status. So someone in a deficit trying to lose weight is going to see compensation and someone who is eating enough to fuel their exercise will see little to none. There's actually a study that shoes the additive model is more accurate than the constrained model for people in a positive to neutral state.

 

[Bookoo]

I went down a rabbit hole with this. I finally got to watch the video and was interested in The research it was based on. Apparently this research seems pretty controversial and heavily questioned.

I was checking r/Kurzgesagt and people there seem a little disappointed in this video since its somewhat misleading.

 

[Biochet]

increased muscle mass > higher expenditure of energy > more fat loss

the science has proved this time and time again

the studies also referenced in this video are very controversial and contest an already agreed upon body of work regarding TDEE's in general

the overall message of the video is acceptable, a calorie deficit is king to losing body weight/fat but to dismiss working out as insignificant is just downright harmful and misleading

 

[The Big Short]

I went down a rabbit hole with this. I finally got to watch the video and was interested in The research it was based on. Apparently this research seems pretty controversial and heavily questioned.

I was checking r/Kurzgesagt and people there seem a little disappointed in this video since its somewhat misleading.

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Same, first time I felt confused and a little bit mislead by a Kurzgesagt video. Glad to see I'm not the only one. Then again, most of the Kurzgesagt videos I've watched has been on topics like the immune system and outer space alien stuff which I can't exactly say I have much knowledge about.

Reading the Reddit thread is pretty funny, you get wonderful comments like this one:
"In short, it's basically this: for you to burn a slice of cheesecake you casually ate one evening after dinner , you need to run TWO full marathons. This is not an exaggeration."

 

[Dave.]

increased muscle mass > higher expenditure of energy > more fat loss

the science has proved this time and time again

the studies also referenced in this video are very controversial and contest an already agreed upon body of work regarding TDEE's in general

the overall message of the video is acceptable, a calorie deficit is king to losing body weight/fat but to dismiss working out as insignificant is just downright harmful and misleading

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It's always odd when an "authority" makes content at which you yourself are more educated than average, and you then are faced with "wait wtf this is full of errors... uhh is all their other content this bad?!"

 

[ArkhamFantasy]

increased muscle mass > higher expenditure of energy > more fat loss

the science has proved this time and time again

the studies also referenced in this video are very controversial and contest an already agreed upon body of work regarding TDEE's in general

the overall message of the video is acceptable, a calorie deficit is king to losing body weight/fat but to dismiss working out as insignificant is just downright harmful and misleading

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Small increase in energy expended>body compensates by lowering non exercise activity thermogenesis

You can overcome this by doing ALOT of cardio but the vast majority of people obviously aren't going to become endurance athletes to overcome a high calorie diet. It's orders of magnitude easier to eat less than to burn off more food, and they're not saying it's insignificant , Herman Ponzer and his team have shouted from the roof tops that you should absolutely be exercising, just not using it as your primary weight loss tool.

 

[Thorrgal]

Well in this thread and in most conversation "diet" refers to "weight loss" and CICO is all that matters so...."Shit advice" for that would be "oh eat good healthy nutritious plant-based food"; advice which, if followed absolutely scrupulously, might very well result in ZERO weight loss. And if it does, it's ONLY because it ALSO happened to adhere to CICO.

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Do you REALLY need to write IN SO MANY CAPS or do you do it on PURPOSE to seem even MORE obnoxious.

 

[EggShen's6DemonBag]

Do you REALLY need to write IN SO MANY CAPS or do you do it on PURPOSE to seem even MORE obnoxious.

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Constructive post. Adds much to the discussion. Thanks

 

[Thorrgal]

Constructive post. Adds much to the discussion. Thanks

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You are welcome. Posts without caps are so much easier to read, and for people to understand and accept.

 

[EggShen's6DemonBag]

You are welcome. Posts without caps are so much easier to read, and for people to understand and accept.

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That must be why there are so many centuries-old ways to add emphasis to text, because it's so much easier to read and understand without any. On ignore you go.

 

[Thorrgal]

That must be why there are so many centuries-old ways to add emphasis to text, because it's so much easier to read and understand without any. On ignore you go.

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There's the right way to do it, and then there's the obnoxious way.

I let you figure out in which camp you fall.

 

[Kindekuma]

This website supports italics if you want to add emphasis, just saying.

On discussion I'm very interested to see what Part II will say when it comes to dietary calorie deficits. Everyone who I know that went for large amounts of weight loss all successfully did it with a diet overhaul with light amount of exercise rather than the other way around of heavy exercise and small/moderate diet changes.

 

[Rosebud]

This website supports italics if you want to add emphasis, just saying.

On discussion I'm very interested to see what Part II will say when it comes to dietary calorie deficits. Everyone who I know that went for large amounts of weight loss all successfully did it with a diet overhaul with light amount of exercise rather than the other way around of heavy exercise and small/moderate diet changes.

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I believe it will be a TLDR version of The Hungry Brain lol. Very very good read

No one wants to overeat. And certainly no one wants to overeat for years, become overweight, and end up with a high risk of diabetes or heart disease--yet two thirds of Americans do precisely that. Even though we know better, we often eat too much. Why does our behavior betray our own intentions to be lean and healthy? The problem, argues obesity and neuroscience researcher Stephan J. Guyenet, is not necessarily a lack of willpower or an incorrect understanding of what to eat. Rather, our appetites and food choices are led astray by ancient, instinctive brain circuits that play by the rules of a survival game that no longer exists. And these circuits don't care about how you look in a bathing suit next summer.

To make the case, The Hungry Brain takes readers on an eye-opening journey through cutting-edge neuroscience that has never before been available to a general audience. The Hungry Brain delivers profound insights into why the brain undermines our weight goals and transforms these insights into practical guidelines for eating well and staying slim. Along the way, it explores how the human brain works, revealing how this mysterious organ makes us who we are.

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Amazon.com

 

[DanteMenethil]

Do we know when part 2 is coming out?

 

[DinkyDev]

Do we know when part 2 is coming out?

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Possibly tomorrow... but they just said "future video", so it may not be the next one.

 

[J-Skee]

They're re-doing the video https://www.reddit.com/r/kurzgesagt/comments/1eag0ut/update_why_losing_weight_is_so_difficult_the/

After reading your feedback and looking into it, we have to say you are right: our video on the Workout Paradox was too simplified and didn't explain things clearly enough. Scripts start out more detailed and then get shortened, and this time we obviously overdid it. This is exactly the kind of stuff we try to avoid, but we went too far, and this hurt the message and the science we wanted to explain. What now? We are editing the script, adding more information, including more expert feedback, and will update the video as soon as possible. After this is set and done, we'll do a review to see how we can avoid this in the future. We'll keep you posted!

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[Nacho Papi]

One thing I have realized with my own weight loss is how annoyingly adaptive my body is to low energy intake. Like, I thought my baseline was 2000 but counting every single atom of food I eat over a period of time I've noticed that my maintenance level is more like 1800. Additionally, my body really squeezes out every calorie's worth by "shutting down" all kinds of things before dipping into the reserves…

I'm tired, brain foggy, slumped in the couch with low energy, demotivated, etc etc, a great deal before I feel that hunger that tells me my body is going "ok dude, I see none of this is helping us so lemme have a taste of those love handles we've been saving up for a moment like this".

 

[Firaga]

Yea. The calorie we need to maintain our weight is actually quite low for most people. That coupled with how calorie dense processed food are wreaking havoc on a lot of people.

 

[Kindekuma]

I believe it will be a TLDR version of The Hungry Brain lol. Very very good read

Amazon.com

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Because of this post I went to my local library to check it out and it is actually a very good read as you said. Thank you for that, had no idea this book existed!

 

[John Rabbit]

Curious to see the updated video. I've kept thinking about this one ever since I saw it and really couldn't get over how it...didn't seem right. Even from my own weight loss experience.

 

[ArcLyte]

Losing weight is difficult because of bread and pasta and sugar.

 

[Schlep]

Losing weight is difficult because of bread and pasta and sugar.

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Or easy because you know to avoid that stuff. Cutting out those three makes for effortless weight loss.

 

[PJTierney]

They're re-doing the video https://www.reddit.com/r/kurzgesagt/comments/1eag0ut/update_why_losing_weight_is_so_difficult_the/

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Interesting. I guess Part 2 will be delayed?

 

[Smoothcb]

I just skipped breakfast (black coffee ftw )and ensured more fiber intake in essentially a 16:8 intermittent fast and lost ~40lbs in 6ish months. Walking a ton with some basic workouts a few days a week.

I'm pretty tall with a usual athletic build so my maintenance caloric intake is pretty high.

 

[Summer]

This video has made me feel really demotivated to exercise/go for walks/swims every day. I used to aim for about 10,000 steps each day and go for evening walks, or walk home from work, etc. That was mostly with the mindset of 'it'll burn a few cals and keep my weight down'.

Now I'm like, what's the point? I might as well just take the tube the whole way home, get home 1 hour earlier and somehow burn the same amount of cals. I still do weight training at home but that's to gain strength/core strength, which I assume is still worth doing.

I'm not anywhere near overweight but I've gained weight since watching this video and changing my exercise routine. Nothing about my diet has changed. Thanks Kurzgesagt.

 

[ArkhamFantasy]

This video has made me feel really demotivated to exercise/go for walks/swims every day. I used to aim for about 10,000 steps each day and go for evening walks, or walk home from work, etc. That was mostly with the mindset of 'it'll burn a few cals and keep my weight down'.

Now I'm like, what's the point? I might as well just take the tube the whole way home, get home 1 hour earlier and somehow burn the same amount of cals. I still do weight training at home but that's to gain strength/core strength, which I assume is still worth doing.

I'm not anywhere near overweight but I've gained weight since watching this video and changing my exercise routine. Nothing about my diet has changed. Thanks Kurzgesagt.

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If you could put the benefits of exercise into pill form it would be the most health promoting medicine in the world, even with zero calories burned.

 

[Fritz]

Curious to see the updated video. I've kept thinking about this one ever since I saw it and really couldn't get over how it...didn't seem right. Even from my own weight loss experience.

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100% same. I kept telling people and while talking I was like 'this can't be right'

 

[HStallion]

This video has made me feel really demotivated to exercise/go for walks/swims every day. I used to aim for about 10,000 steps each day and go for evening walks, or walk home from work, etc. That was mostly with the mindset of 'it'll burn a few cals and keep my weight down'.

Now I'm like, what's the point? I might as well just take the tube the whole way home, get home 1 hour earlier and somehow burn the same amount of cals. I still do weight training at home but that's to gain strength/core strength, which I assume is still worth doing.

I'm not anywhere near overweight but I've gained weight since watching this video and changing my exercise routine. Nothing about my diet has changed. Thanks Kurzgesagt.

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The video is being redone because of issues people had with it so I'd not take this as the gospel.

 

[bionic77]

increased muscle mass > higher expenditure of energy > more fat loss

the science has proved this time and time again

the studies also referenced in this video are very controversial and contest an already agreed upon body of work regarding TDEE's in general

the overall message of the video is acceptable, a calorie deficit is king to losing body weight/fat but to dismiss working out as insignificant is just downright harmful and misleading

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You can definitely lose weight by working out and building muscle.

I used to control my weight by running and lifting weights. From my experience running fast, swimming fast, etc. burns the most calories. I could eat whatever I wanted and not gain an ounce. But as you get older or get injuries it's hard to keep up that pace and cardio (also harder to lift like you did when you were younger). So I had to learn to diet and control and watch what I eat. Which is actually hard to do and takes a lot of discipline and patience.

 

[Therion]

The video is being redone because of issues people had with it so I'd not take this as the gospel.

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Even going by the video as posted this wouldn't be the conclusion to draw from it. While it said you burn fewer calories after your body adjusts to exercise, you're still burning some amount and stopping the exercise without changing your diet can obviously put you back in a surplus.

 

[sionydus]

One thing I have realized with my own weight loss is how annoyingly adaptive my body is to low energy intake. Like, I thought my baseline was 2000 but counting every single atom of food I eat over a period of time I've noticed that my maintenance level is more like 1800. Additionally, my body really squeezes out every calorie's worth by "shutting down" all kinds of things before dipping into the reserves…

I'm tired, brain foggy, slumped in the couch with low energy, demotivated, etc etc, a great deal before I feel that hunger that tells me my body is going "ok dude, I see none of this is helping us so lemme have a taste of those love handles we've been saving up for a moment like this".

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I relate to this post so much. I was stagnant six pounds from my weight loss goal because of metabolic slowdown. I started to slowly climb back to my TDE and gently climb back down with carb cycling, zig zagging, and doing more HIIT workouts… the works.

Then I got sick and lost three pounds from not being able to hold food lol. So now I'm cautiously trying not to shut down my metabolism but slowly inch my way for these last few pounds, gently picking up exercise.

 

[J-Skee]

Updated video


View: https://youtu.be/vSSkDos2hzo

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

youtu.be

 

[HStallion]

Can't watch the new video at the moment but I am curious to see what changes were made. I believe they asked Dr. Mike for his opinion for the original video and I know he made some comments after the fact that he didn't quite agree with the final product.

 

[Nordic4tKnight]

So what was updated in the video?

 

[Tathanen]

Can't watch the new video at the moment but I am curious to see what changes were made. I believe they asked Dr. Mike for his opinion for the original video and I know he made some comments after the fact that he didn't quite agree with the final product.

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So what was updated in the video?

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All changes are listed here: https://sites.google.com/view/sources-workoutparadox

Sounds like the majority of it is adding "mostlies" and "oftens" to soften things that previously sounded like absolutes, but there are one or two new sections.

 

[AlteredBeast]

Every time I set my mind to losing weight, it is actually extremely easy. It's not going back to addictive garbage that's the tough part. American culture, and I'm sure most areas now, as well, dictate that we eat ultra-palatable foods laden with corn syrup, sodium, and fat. Ask the average American when's the last time they ate a vegetable and they'll ask "do French fries and onion rings count?"

I'm down 9 pounds in 3 weeks after a false-alarm heart attack scare. The only thing I've done is not eat anything designed to be sweet by the addition of sugar.

So tortilla with 3g of added sugar? Apples, oranges, etc? Fine.

Sweets, desserts, syrup, ketchup, juice, etc? Not fine.

 

[Trey]

All changes are listed here: https://sites.google.com/view/sources-workoutparadox

Sounds like the majority of it is adding "mostlies" and "oftens" to soften things that previously sounded like absolutes, but there are one or two new sections.

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well yeah

the vast majority of the thread were hyper athletes that train for marathons and triathlons going "well actually, I run 40 miles a week and I can eat whatever I want!"

softening the language makes sense because even widely accepted medical fact will always have exceptions, like "smoking and alcohol abuse is bad for you" will always have an edge case where someone's chain smoking lush grandma lived to 102 and can still bench press her body weight.

 

[bionic77]

Every time I set my mind to losing weight, it is actually extremely easy. It's not going back to addictive garbage that's the tough part. American culture, and I'm sure most areas now, as well, dictate that we eat ultra-palatable foods laden with corn syrup, sodium, and fat. Ask the average American when's the last time they ate a vegetable and they'll ask "do French fries and onion rings count?"

I'm down 9 pounds in 3 weeks after a false-alarm heart attack scare. The only thing I've done is not eat anything designed to be sweet by the addition of sugar.

So tortilla with 3g of added sugar? Apples, oranges, etc? Fine.

Sweets, desserts, syrup, ketchup, juice, etc? Not fine.

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I just lost weight. I would say it does suck for the first few months.

When my knees were better I could just run it off. Now I had to diet and it did kind of suck.

Once you get used to your stomach being empty it does get easier. But I wouldn't call it easy.

 

[mantidor]

All changes are listed here: https://sites.google.com/view/sources-workoutparadox

Sounds like the majority of it is adding "mostlies" and "oftens" to soften things that previously sounded like absolutes, but there are one or two new sections.

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It's basically the same video lol

People seem to be very touchy about this subject, even when they put on the same disclaimer they put in all their videos they have not need to "correct" videos before.

 

[Barrel Cannon]

I always found losing weight to be fairly easy but as my metabolism slowed it has become harder but I'm usually able to power through it mentally by going through a careful diet and doing some lifting+cardio. It's usually been a period of weight gain over the summer and then losing it during the fall. Gaining during winter festivities and then losing it in the spring.

However this last week I suffered a major back injury and now I'm coming to the realization that I can't rely on doing any sort of complex lifts till I heal fully or till I figure a way to do modified exercises and it's honestly been a bit overwhelming to realize I can't do many of the physical activities I enjoyed. Has anyone else suffered a back injury and what recommendations do you folks have?

 

[Ld007]

Eat less eat right move more.
I need to start again, desperately.

 

[bionic77]

I always found losing weight to be fairly easy but as my metabolism slowed it has become harder but I'm usually able to power through it mentally by going through a careful diet and doing some lifting+cardio. It's usually been a period of weight gain over the summer and then losing it during the fall. Gaining during winter festivities and then losing it in the spring.

However this last week I suffered a major back injury and now I'm coming to the realization that I can't rely on doing any sort of complex lifts till I heal fully or till I figure a way to do modified exercises and it's honestly been a bit overwhelming to realize I can't do many of the physical activities I enjoyed. Has anyone else suffered a back injury and what recommendations do you folks have?

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Not back but knee injury. I used to control my weight by running and working out. Especially running fast.

Gained weight when I got hurt. I just had to control it with diet by cutting a lot of calories. Was difficult for first 2 months but I got used to it. I actually feel like my mind is clearer now during work day when I skip lunch and just have a coffee with a piece of fruit or protein bar instead.