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Red Cadet 015

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,947
Utilitarian ethics are so often used as an excuse to simply defend boneheaded strategies, especially choices reflecting a reactionary worldview, so it's not surprising that so many in here are giving you the side eye.

I mean, the most prominent example of this is Democrats insisting that both Hillary was the only choice, and that Trump winning the GOP primary was the best outcome. And that perspective led to the saddest outcome of a game of 12th dimensional chess in recent history.

As for the "protect all our soldiers!" thing you're advocating for, it's worth considering that Reid specializes in attacking other progressives. It's one of her most persistent subjects, actually. If you see the larger conflict here as progressives vs. conservatives, wouldn't the utilitarian take on a figure like Reid make her far more expendable than most? Given her focus on lashing out leftward.

You're using words like "utilitarian" to describe a perspective that seems some mixture of uninformed and biased, and I think most people here will have a hard time taking it seriously.
Reid attacking other progressives doesn't happen much on the show, and tends to be largely constructive in a sense. She's mainly arguing about strategy (she seems to favor boosting minority turnout vs reaching out to reluctant Trump voters), which isn't exactly taking people's heads off. She does snatch up bullshit conservative talking points though, and is able to do them in relatively short soundbites. Those are very valuable to our side of the culture war, and they often seem to go viral, which is a far more effective means of distributing ideas than simply live broadcasting.

I think alot of the ideas around her "credibility" and such are founded in the old media environment where you pretty much had to get your ideas out live, and live audiences were the most important. That's clearly changing now, as reflected in the meme war the Russians fought during the 2016 election. You can also see it in the changing economics of the media landscape- recorded media tends to have a long tail, and will soon become far more economically valuable than recorded content. TYT has had major success in that area (see Hasan "the Hun" Piker) and virtually all of the broadcast news companies have abandoned their own online video platforms for Facebook and YouTube.

I say all that to say, in that environment credibility doesn't matter that much. Or at least as much as it used to. What matters is whether you can get your point across in an entertaining, yet informative fashion in 3 minutes or less. Joy is good at that. Especially when it comes to destroying Republican talking points and promoting stuff like Moral Mondays. Mellisa Harris-Perry was better at it, but MSNBC's dumbass execs ran her off.
 

nomis

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,013
As someone who respects (respected) Joy Reid, I don't want her to lose her show for one reason, and one reason only:

There's no replacement for her at MSNBC currently.

Love her or hate her, but there isn't. The argument could be made that Chris Hayes and Rachel Maddow (and even Lawrence O'Donnell) occupy the same lane. But there's nobody at MSNBC covering the news from a liberal black perspective like Joy Reid. Nobody who puts deranged Trump zealots in their place so thoroughly that they won't even come on her show like Joy Reid. Nobody who will sit with whichever prominent so-called "progressive" of the moment and ask, "Ok, 'it's about the economy' yadda-yadda-yadda we get it. What are you going to do about issues face black people specifically? What are you going to do about issues facing women specifically?" like Joy Reid. Since the network got rid of Melissa Harris-Perry she's really the only one carrying this torch, There's a reason why her weekend morning show is so highly rated.

She's fucked up, undeniably. And her defense is unbelievable and makes me question her integrity in a way I thought I never would. But her voice, and her show with the range of topics it covers, is important.

In a world where MSNBC cans Joy Reid, who takes her place?

Why does she have to be a liberal? TV news is inundated with liberal voices. Since mainstream outlets are apparently all about "equal representation" for the political spectrum that somehow only seems to apply to proto-fascists like Kevin Williamson, one of them should fucking hire Briahna Joy Gray
 

lmcfigs

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
12,091
They fired this guy for lying too.

nw7y7d0.png


And he at least admitted it, and apologized for it. She needs to be gone yesterday. And this is someone that will be reporting on hacking stories on a national scale, and she's just a completely untrustworthy liar.
He was a lot worse, since he had a history of embellishing and fabricating stories for over a decade, and he just got downgraded to MSNBC. He has his own show on the network now.

But I don't watch her show, so it wouldn't really affect me if she was booted.
 

Royalan

I can say DEI; you can't.
Moderator
Oct 24, 2017
11,911
How badly does she have to fuck up before her shameless lying and irrevocable loss of credibility outweighs the fact that MSNBC hasn't bothered to hire other black people?

The real question is, does her shameless lying and loss of personal credibility effect the news she covers? If the answer to that question was yes, I'd say they should get rid of her immediately. But it's not. Morning Joy is still, overall, a facts-based program. In fact, I'd argue it's one of the more facts-based news program on cable news for the simple fact that she doesn't make much space for Trump zealots and both-sidesism.

So what we have now is a great weekend news show unapologetically centered on black liberalism, but helmed by a person who is becoming increasingly problematic. And what this points out to me is exactly what you noted. Why hasn't MSNBC hired more black journalists and personalities?

Why does she have to be a liberal? TV news is inundated with liberal voices. Since mainstream outlets are apparently all about "equal representation" for the political spectrum that somehow only seems to apply to proto-fascists like Kevin Williamson, one of them should fucking hire Briahna Joy Gray

Because this is MSNBC we're talking about and not FOX? Nobody who watches MSNBC wants this hypothetical black conservative, which again is why Joy's show is so highly rated.

Also, I highly dispute the idea that TV news is "inundated" with liberal voices when there's CNN (which plays to the center) and FOX (which is unapologetically conservative). MSNBC's rating have grown entire because there's a growing appetite for liberal news that cuts out the screaming matches and false attempts to play to both sides that you see on CNN.
 
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y2dvd

Member
Nov 14, 2017
2,481
As someone who respects (respected) Joy Reid, I don't want her to lose her show for one reason, and one reason only:

There's no replacement for her at MSNBC currently.

Love her or hate her, but there isn't. The argument could be made that Chris Hayes and Rachel Maddow (and even Lawrence O'Donnell) occupy the same lane. But there's nobody at MSNBC covering the news from a liberal black perspective like Joy Reid. Nobody who puts deranged Trump zealots in their place so thoroughly that they won't even come on her show like Joy Reid. Nobody who will sit with whichever prominent so-called "progressive" of the moment and ask, "Ok, 'it's about the economy' yadda-yadda-yadda we get it. What are you going to do about issues face black people specifically? What are you going to do about issues facing women specifically?" like Joy Reid. Since the network got rid of Melissa Harris-Perry she's really the only one carrying this torch, There's a reason why her weekend morning show is so highly rated.

She's fucked up, undeniably. And her defense is unbelievable and makes me question her integrity in a way I thought I never would. But her voice, and her show with the range of topics it covers, is important.

In a world where MSNBC cans Joy Reid, who takes her place?

Supporting someone because there are no other options is a terrible reason to support anyone.
 

Royalan

I can say DEI; you can't.
Moderator
Oct 24, 2017
11,911
Nov 4, 2017
2,203
I don't want to just go nuh-uh to you, but like.... yes it is.
All a news anchor even has is their personal credibility. It's not like we're reviewing their sources, or physical evidence. Some even cite anonymous sources and rely exclusively on their personal credibility.

To suggest that we're in some new age where that doesn't matter is ridiculous. If people actually think that, then they might as well join the fake news Trump crowds and just fight a propaganda war with no claims to caring for truth.
 

Deleted member 4614

Oct 25, 2017
6,345
The real question is, does her shameless lying and loss of personal credibility effect the news she covers? If the answer to that question was yes, I'd say they should get rid of her immediately. But it's not. Morning Joy is still, overall, a facts-based program.

Congratulations, this is probably the worst thing I've read all week.
 

PhoenixDark

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,089
White House
The real question is, does her shameless lying and loss of personal credibility effect the news she covers? If the answer to that question was yes, I'd say they should get rid of her immediately. But it's not. Morning Joy is still, overall, a facts-based program. In fact, I'd argue it's one of the more facts-based news program on cable news for the simple fact that she doesn't make much space for Trump zealots and both-sidesism.

So what we have now is a great weekend news show unapologetically centered on black liberalism, but helmed by a person who is becoming increasingly problematic. And what this points out to me is exactly what you noted. Why hasn't MSNBC hired more black journalists and personalities?

If this is your argument, why should anyone ever get fired for being problematic as long as they agree with you ideologically and effectively push an agenda you support? Tribalism at its finest.

If you make racist and homophobic comments and then lie about it, including potentially/allegedly getting law enforcement involved...it really doesn't matter if you do your job well. You're getting fired from most jobs. Her race and gender shouldn't be used as crutches to excuse her behavior. Personality responsibility matter. There is literally nothing unique or amazing about her - if you want to replace her with non-problematic black female host, it wouldn't be hard to do.
 

nomis

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,013
The real question is, does her shameless lying and loss of personal credibility effect the news she covers? If the answer to that question was yes, I'd say they should get rid of her immediately. But it's not. Morning Joy is still, overall, a facts-based program.

If she is the voice of the program, and she is a shameless quadruple-down liar on personal issues, her show no longer has the "optics" of being "fact based" it has the optics of being of informing its viewers with a proven shameless liar

Because this is MSNBC we're talking about and not FOX? Nobody who watches MSNBC wants this hypothetical black conservative, which again is why Joy's show is so highly rated.

Also, I highly dispute the idea that TV news is "inundated" with liberal voices when there's CNN (which plays to the center)

The black woman whose name I mentioned is not a conservative, she's a "bernie bro". I also think conservatives have plenty of TV air time

All of the networks outside of Fox play to the center
 

moblin

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,107
Москва
Why are people still acting like she was writing this shit in the 90s as a teenager.

She was a grown-ass woman, it was 2007, MA already had same-sex marriage, and she was writing about gay men grooming young boys. Barack Obama was being talked about as a serious contender for the Democratic party presidential nomination, and she was giggling about how icky gays are. Most of American culture had already graduated beyond the idea that gay people were literally dangerous, but she was still on that mess.

When you're a public figure, personal credibility affects public credibility. The lengths to which some will go to protect "voices that need to be heard" is nasty.
 

Royalan

I can say DEI; you can't.
Moderator
Oct 24, 2017
11,911
All a news anchor even has is their personal credibility.

This isn't true at all.

An MSNBC anchor (at least the top names that have been given their own shows) is more than just the personality. They're the entire perspective of their show. The people they choose to hire. They stories they choose to cover. The people they choose to interview.

Chris Hayes, Rachel Maddow, Lawrence O'Donnell, and Joy Reid aren't just people sitting in front of the camera running carbon copy news programs. Their shows each have a very specific focus that comes directly from their perspective.
 

legacyzero

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
4,252
Well I'm not usually into these types of arguments, but MSNBC doesn't strike me as a very diverse network. I didn't mean for that to sound like the only reason they shouldn't get rid of her. Ultimately, I think it's because she's made similar comments before, there was some anger and people moved on because she clearly doesn't hold the same stances. Lying about it seems insane to me and idk how her fans are okay with her thinking they're all idiots - but the fireable offense would have been if she still held those homophobic views- which she clearly doesn't. The cover-up strikes me as just a major blow to her credibility.

edit: to be clear, of course I'd prefer if MSNBC had better anchors, but I think they should be let go for real reasons. Not just because I personally don't like them.
Being a homophobe, transphobe, islamaphobe, a peddler if bullshit terms like "alt-left" and "berniebro" while continuing to shill for corporate centric democrats, and on top of it all, bullshiting you with straight up lies.

Those aren't "real reasons" to you?
 

dusteatingbug

Member
Dec 1, 2017
1,393
This isn't true at all.

An MSNBC anchor (at least the top names that have been given their own shows) is more than just the personality. They're the entire perspective of their show. The people they choose to hire. They stories they choose to cover. The people they choose to interview.

Chris Hayes, Rachel Maddow, Lawrence O'Donnell, and Joy Reid aren't just people sitting in front of the camera running carbon copy news programs. Their shows each have a very specific focus that comes directly from their perspective.

Citations Needed Podcast, Episode 34: What the Hell is Wrong With MSNBC?
 

Royalan

I can say DEI; you can't.
Moderator
Oct 24, 2017
11,911
If this is your argument, why should anyone ever get fired for being problematic as long as they agree with you ideologically and effectively push an agenda you support? Tribalism at its finest.

If you make racist and homophobic comments and then lie about it, including potentially/allegedly getting law enforcement involved...it really doesn't matter if you do your job well. You're getting fired from most jobs. Her race and gender shouldn't be used as crutches to excuse her behavior. Personality responsibility matter. There is literally nothing unique or amazing about her - if you want to replace her with non-problematic black female host, it wouldn't be hard to do.

No, I agree with you.

Let me make two things clear about where I'm coming from:

1) I think Joy Reid has lost credibility.
2) I think Joy Reid should be fired.

What I'm concerned about who do they replace her with? Why has MSNBC done so little to replace the black voices and talent they've lost over the years that it's gotten to the point that, if you fire one person who really should be fired, you potentially lose a show with a very important perspective?
 

M.Bluth

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,238
This isn't true at all.

An MSNBC anchor (at least the top names that have been given their own shows) is more than just the personality. They're the entire perspective of their show. The people they choose to hire. They stories they choose to cover. The people they choose to interview.

Chris Hayes, Rachel Maddow, Lawrence O'Donnell, and Joy Reid aren't just people sitting in front of the camera running carbon copy news programs. Their shows each have a very specific focus that comes directly from their perspective.
Aren't you contradicting yourself here? If that's what her and other MSNBC personalities' shows are, then if their personal credibility is compromised, so would their perspective.

With the way things went, I'd argue that, however valuable her show was in whatever topics she excelled at, she is now a counterproductive force. If she tackles an issue of someone else's integrity, she will be easily dismissed for what she has done.
 

Chie Satonaka

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,616
This thread and this whole situation makes me sad. AM Joy is a legit show, and Joy seems like good people.

If this whole debacle is true, she fucked up and is continuing to fuck up by attempting to hide it and putting out conspiracy theories. Everyone loves a good redemption story. What the correct thing to do here was to get out in front of it, own it, and look like a better person because you've evolved and now show solidarity with another marginalized group. Black people being homophobic has NEVER made sense to me.

I don't like agreeing with some of the posters ITT on this subject, but there's a credibility issue and it's probably best for her to step down. She can still do good work by signal boosting via twitter while she figures out how to fix this mess, make amends with the LGBTQ community and (hopefully) salvage her career doing something else.

I wanted to give her the benefit of the doubt, but this just seems like a mess, and continuing to double down isn't helping anybody.
 
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Oct 26, 2017
6,809
Joy of Lying by Steve Allen.

She needs to go.

Just to provide an additional perspective as a writer, a month or two ago I got a spam comment from a long-forgotten blog project from 8-9 years ago. I had no idea it was even still being hosted. The blog was a small project with another writer and we wrote maybe about 30-40 articles combined. We didn't sign the articles, so it wasn't obvious who wrote what. The blog was commentary on pop culture and there was nothing controversial about it (probably why it didn't take off). But it was interesting how with some articles I couldn't remember if I wrote it or the other author did. And other articles that I knew I wrote for certain because of the topic, it was like reading them for the first time. One of them was a clever skit that had me laughing out loud when I read it now even though I had no solid memory of writing it.

Sometimes during a creative process whether it's writing, composing music, designing, or whatever, you sometimes have an almost out of body experience. You get in this creative zone or manic zone (if it's induced by a deadline) and when you look back on it even just a few months later, you forget how the sausage was made or that you even made it in the first place. So it's actually plausible for a writer to not remember composing works from years earlier whether it's embarrassing or not.

BUT.... if you're confronted with articles that you wrote from the Wayback Machine and the Library of Congress, then you wrote that shit! As others pointed out, this is where many of us are having a problem with Joy. She wants to treat us a like a Trump Loyalist who will swallow any alternative fact and bend reality in the name of political tribalism. She's insulting our intelligence and she's proving to be untrustworthy.

Furthermore, how will she sit across from Rachel Maddow and Chris Hayes. Those two strive to do real journalism (as much as a political commentator can) and I just don't see how the producers could sit Joy Reid across from them without making them complicit in the obfuscation and tarnish their credibility as well. Again, Joy's gotta go. She's not the only African American woman capable of having a talk show. There are others.
 

Deleted member 22490

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
9,237
I'd be fine if Angela Rye took her spot if you really need a liberal. I'd prefer Briahna Joy Gray.

The fact that MSNBC has so very few black women hosts speaks to another large point surrounding liberal political spaces that gives lip service to diversity but don't actually try to accomplish it. Tamron Hall being fired and replaced by that white lady is an example of that.
 

lastflowers

User requested permanent ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
342
Seattle, Wa
No, I agree with you.

Let me make two things clear about where I'm coming from:

1) I think Joy Reid has lost credibility.
2) I think Joy Reid should be fired.

What I'm concerned about who do they replace her with? Why has MSNBC done so little to replace the black voices and talent they've lost over the years that it's gotten to the point that, if you fire one person who really should be fired, you potentially lose a show with a very important perspective?

What this should spur in you is self-reflection about your enjoyment of her program and perspective. Think about how her arguments that you relied upon in the past which merely were appeals to her status as a professional news journalist. Reflect upon the conversations you've had in the past.

Then propose a new personality to replace hers which more aligns with what you believe.

It is true that broadcast media dramatically under-represents the black liberal view, but perhaps she was never the person to represent it.
 

lmcfigs

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
12,091
Being a homophobe, transphobe, islamaphobe, a peddler if bullshit terms like "alt-left" and "berniebro" while continuing to shill for corporate centric democrats, and on top of it all, bullshiting you with straight up lies.

Those aren't "real reasons" to you?
Well maybe I'm wrong. idk. But I think it is an important distinction that these comments were made years ago and you're using the present tense as if she holds those same views. And your reasoning is exactly what I was talking about: bashing Bernie Sanders and leftists, being a corporate shill, etc. are just things you (and I) personally don't like and I think that's getting lost with what she's actually done wrong. But again, if I'm wrong and people think she should be fired - I'm not like super bothered.
 

dusteatingbug

Member
Dec 1, 2017
1,393
Well maybe I'm wrong. idk. But I think it is an important distinction that these comments were made years ago and you're using the present tense as if she holds those same views. And your reasoning is exactly what I was talking about: bashing Bernie Sanders and leftists, being a corporate shill, etc. are just things you (and I) personally don't like and I think that's getting lost with what she's actually done wrong. But again, if I'm wrong and people think she should be fired - I'm not like super bothered.

If she had come clean right away and been like "I said some awful things, I've learned a lot in the last ten years and realize how wrong I was," she probably wouldn't be getting this much shit. It's the whole "I was hacked" thing that's actually tanking her career.

Like, everyone knows that homophobic jokes were more socially acceptable ten years ago, even among liberals. Not that they were ever OK, but society has progressed a lot since she wrote those posts. But instead of taking responsibility she has had a meltdown and started telling outrageous lies.
 

Royalan

I can say DEI; you can't.
Moderator
Oct 24, 2017
11,911
What this should spur in you is self-reflection about your enjoyment of her program and perspective. Think about how her arguments that you relied upon in the past which merely were appeals to her status as a professional news journalist. Reflect upon the conversations you've had in the past.

I've never relied on Joy Reid for my arguments. But despite that, this doesn't really make sense.

Yes, Joy Reid has taken a bulldozer to her credibility, but that doesn't retroactively make everything she chose to cover on her show some big lie. Morning Joy (the show) is legitimate even if its anchor no longer is
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,141
It's pretty clear at this point Joy isn't going to be fired for this. She's getting way too much support across social media. MSNBC will probably be worse off from a PR standpoint if they got rid of her at this point. This saga has been very revealing.
 

lastflowers

User requested permanent ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
342
Seattle, Wa
User Banned (1 Day): Personal attacks despite previous warnings.
I've never relied on Joy Reid for my arguments. But despite that, this doesn't really make sense.

Yes, Joy Reid has taken a bulldozer to her credibility, but that doesn't retroactively make everything she chose to cover on her show some big lie. Morning Joy (the show) is legitimate even if its anchor no longer is
It matters if you take your job seriously as a moderator. If you only care about points on a forum, then whatever--do you. Just keep in mind you've lessened yourself in my view, from your posts in this thread and inability to self-reflect.
 

FoneBone

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,821
Don't know how any of the many pundits proudly standing with Reid can claim any credibility re "fake news" and right-wing conspiracy-mongering in the future if they're not willing to acknowledge any wrongdoing regarding her hacking claims (and efforts to attack the integrity of the Internet Archive in the process)
 

dusteatingbug

Member
Dec 1, 2017
1,393
Don't know how any of the many pundits proudly standing with Reid can claim any credibility re "fake news" and right-wing conspiracy-mongering in the future if they're not willing to acknowledge any wrongdoing regarding her hacking claims (and efforts to attack the integrity of the Internet Archive in the process)

Not just Internet Archive. Also Wayback Machine and even the Library of Congress archives. Not to mention the criticism of her blog posts written contemporaneously.
 

Gaf Zombie

The Fallen
Dec 13, 2017
2,238
She fucked up royally but I think we lose more than we gain by firing her.

She obviously bungled the handling of this whole situation, but it's certainly plausible to have forgotten she wrote the posts. Does anyone really think she's homophobic?
 
Nov 4, 2017
2,203
Not just Internet Archive. Also Wayback Machine and even the Library of Congress archives. Not to mention the criticism of her blog posts written contemporaneously.
But we are to believe this person will never state anything but the truth in regards to political rivals. She would never present an argument in bad faith about people to the left of her, or to the right of her. Nope, we should just trust everything she reports on TV.
 

BrutalInsane

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
2,080
I'd be fine if Angela Rye took her spot if you really need a liberal. I'd prefer Briahna Joy Gray.

Angela would be perfect . . . she don't suffer fools.

Also, I'm fine giving Joy a pass on this, we all make mistakes in our lives and currently, she doesn't seem to be that person she was when writing this (I don't believe she was hacked.) I just wish she would come clean.
 

Xe4

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,295
I'm really struggling to find a connection between someone liking a show and someone doing well as a moderator LMAO.
 

dusteatingbug

Member
Dec 1, 2017
1,393
She fucked up royally but I think we lose more than we gain by firing her.

She obviously bungled the handling of this whole situation, but it's certainly plausible to have forgotten she wrote the posts. Does anyone really think she's homophobic?

I mean, she certainly used to be homophobic. And instead of acknowledging that and saying she's changed, she chose to perpetuate an outrageous lie.

But we are to believe this person will never state anything but the truth in regards to political rivals. She would never present an argument in bad faith about people to the left of her, or to the right of her. Nope, we should just trust everything she reports on TV.

The other thing is, she clearly thinks her own fans are hyper-partisan idiots with no actual standards.
 

M.Bluth

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,238
She fucked up royally but I think we lose more than we gain by firing her.

She obviously bungled the handling of this whole situation, but it's certainly plausible to have forgotten she wrote the posts. Does anyone really think she's homophobic?
I don't know, but I'm less likely to take her word on it now. Wouldn't you?

Plenty of people have held negative, deeply problematic views towards the LGBTQ community that they don't hold anymore. People who aren't homophobic anymore admit to to their past, they regret it. They don't concoct a far-fetched, idiotic excuse to explain a record of their past bigotry.
 

Royalan

I can say DEI; you can't.
Moderator
Oct 24, 2017
11,911
It matters if you take your job seriously as a moderator. If you only care about points on a forum, then whatever--do you. Just keep in mind you've lessened yourself in my view, from your posts in this thread and inability to self-reflect.

...huh?

What matters? You're not really being clear here, other than constantly attacking me as a moderator. Which, as I said the last time, isn't really relevant here.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,645
She fucked up royally but I think we lose more than we gain by firing her.

She obviously bungled the handling of this whole situation, but it's certainly plausible to have forgotten she wrote the posts. Does anyone really think she's homophobic?
The only reason to think you lose more than gain by firing her is if you only care about having a democrat on TV attack Bernie Sanders.

Alright be honest

Which one of you hacked her

It was me.
 

dusteatingbug

Member
Dec 1, 2017
1,393
Would you like to read a terrible Wonkette article? You would? Check this shit out.

Maybe the posts are real. Maybe they aren't. Who fucking knows! More importantly, WHO FUCKING CARES? Seriously, I am as flaming gay as a three-dollar amero, and I cannot muster the energy to care whether Reid did or did not write those posts, for a couple reasons.

First of all, the "social justice warriors" fucking this chicken really should be out there making some social justice instead of mounting a campaign to get one of the greatest leaders of the #Resistance fired. Because regardless of whether or not Joy Reid is lying right now (perhaps out of embarrassment, or MAYBE SHE IS A SECRET HATER OF GAYS), this whole shitfire of manufactured outrage is only happening because some Twitter Sheriff is out there spending their time searching web archives trying to screw Joy Reid, instead of doing anything of actual consequence in the world, and all the lemmings are following along and playing their part. DO BETTER, ASSHOLES.
 

y2dvd

Member
Nov 14, 2017
2,481
I'm not supporting her, I'm supporting her show. If MSNBC had someone credible to replace with her with, I'd say kick her to the curb yesterday.

But the sad thing is they don't.



We'll disagree.

I don't understand. Isn't her show named after herself? In the same sense that we have attacked anyone for supporting 'x' reprehensible views by watching their programs, why should I see this any different for you supporting this show for instance?