Preach. I honestly can't think of many cannon queer characters that get a happy ending. LiS still gets under my skin for what they pulled in the ending.
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It's PRIDE MONTH - How has this gen done for LGBTQ+ representation?
- Thread starter BAD
- Start date
Preach. I honestly can't think of many cannon queer characters that get a happy ending. LiS still gets under my skin for what they pulled in the ending.
Could be better, could be worse.
S2 approach has been terrible.
I can't romance Finn unless I go along with his stupid plan and even if I do I don't get to have sex with him or even swim.
I don't think that's very fair considering it's up to the player to have Max falling in love with Chloe and not just being friends, as well as having an ending where the two live.
Who? I play Borderlands 1,2 and Tales but don't know who is LGBT (maybe it's on text quest that I skip many times )
Lilith? Zero? or Claptrap?
Both endings play off the "tragic gays" trope in some form. Max is implied to be bi throughout the game regardless of who she falls for (or doesn't), and Chloe is all but outright stated to be the same.
I expected to be able to think of one example, but not really.
It also doesn't really have anything to do with people who are trans.
Off the top of my head
Hammerlock and Janey are gay
Maya is Ace
Axton, Torgue, and Moxxi are bi.
Female and PoC =/= LGBT
You can have one and not the other, and still complain. Other minorities getting something isn't "just as good" or a substitution
I understand that perspective, but Chloe is as close to a cannon queer character that series has. The fact that:
Neither ending she is allowed to be even close to happy.
Considering some of the stuff regarding Piers in Resident Evil 6... Yeah, Capcom's been really "teasing" this for so long and it'd be nice to finally have this cemented (though admittedly, that's gonna make the whole ending with Piers in 6 that much worse...).
But yeah, as a whole, we... really could do a lot better, especially regarding Male / Male relationships. I also can't stress we really need more Trans representation as well.
I mean yeah, obviously. I didn't say it was just as good. It's just good that progress is happening at all, considering how loudly gamers revolt when we move forward an inch. Obviously we need more LGBT representation in games. I'm not seeing women and PoC in games and saying "well, we're done now!". I was just noting that, while LGBT representation still has a ways to go, representation in general is doing good. Stands to reason that that will happen for LGBT representation soon.
I mean, at the beginning of the generation there was a lot less prominent games with women or PoC leads. Still not as many as there should be, but in my opinion, it's gotten much better these last few years. I think we're on the right path, and if we keep going down it I think that LGBT representation will eventually become a greater priority as well.
You must be one of those "why isn't there a straight pride month" kinda person.
Idk, but I posted a remade LGBT logo of a certain publisher on reddit and some people took it pretty freaking personally.
PS3 game, but the localized version of the original and Vita port came out after the PS4 so it still counts. (And IIRC the Japanese version was during the same year as the PS4 release over there also.)
In Ar nosurge, technically the romantic subplot between Ion and the player (as the robot Earthes) could be straight or gay, since one of the dialogue options early on allows the character to set their "gender" either way via the option. It doesn't actually change the dialogue due to this being a Gust game and how their budgets for non-Atelier games aren't AAA, though.
Been a few years since I played the Vita port, but I'm pretty sure the dialogue towards the player is gender neutral. Not a huge thing for a game, but considering what usually is in Japanese RPGs of that time, it was at least something of note.
In Ar nosurge, technically the romantic subplot between Ion and the player (as the robot Earthes) could be straight or gay, since one of the dialogue options early on allows the character to set their "gender" either way via the option. It doesn't actually change the dialogue due to this being a Gust game and how their budgets for non-Atelier games aren't AAA, though.
Been a few years since I played the Vita port, but I'm pretty sure the dialogue towards the player is gender neutral. Not a huge thing for a game, but considering what usually is in Japanese RPGs of that time, it was at least something of note.
Honestly, I was pretty hopeful for awhile, but at the rate it's going, with things like asscreed getting more praise than Dragon Age, I feel it will inevitably lead more to "Choose your own sexuality/race/whatever" rather than give canonical representation like DA:I does. It's still.... welcome, i guess, since there's literally nothing else to choose from, but I really don't want that or the Bethesda "gender-blind romances" that ignore all reference to player gender to be the only real options.
I think for games that only have one protagonist and don't allow much choice in the story we'll start to see more LGBT leads. Not every game works with the very RPG mechanics being used by Assassin's Creed or Bethesda.
You're not wrong. Finn isn't nearly as uncomplicated as Cassidy, or any other relationship opportunity LiS has done before. It's too bad they did that with their first and only gay (male) relationship opportunity.
Yeah, I kind of share your assessment. Games have slowly put a few trans characters in minor roles. Herizon Zero Dawn, Dragon Age, and Andromeda. But, they're super minor characters, and even Andromeda dead named its character. It feels like any AAA studio would be harassed endlessly if they announced a game with a trans lead.
Nevermind, i just remembered the only game so far that truly depicts an amazing gay male couple with no downsides:
Greg and Angus from Night in the Woods are hands down the best gay boys ive seen this gen with their casual but ever present gayness and chemistry always around and a part of their character without it being their character. Too many gays either never actually show any gay in dialogue or action, and many show too much to the point of flamboyant stereotype, but Greg and Angus have by far the best mixture and despite being a fox and a bear, are more human than most gay depictions.
Greg and Angus from Night in the Woods are hands down the best gay boys ive seen this gen with their casual but ever present gayness and chemistry always around and a part of their character without it being their character. Too many gays either never actually show any gay in dialogue or action, and many show too much to the point of flamboyant stereotype, but Greg and Angus have by far the best mixture and despite being a fox and a bear, are more human than most gay depictions.
To be fair, Assassin's creed didn't work with those mechanics before Origins/Odyssey
Yeah, Assassin's Creed only works that way now because it's a full on RPG. Games that have one definite story to tell can't really let you choose everything.
Same
Honestly, the "tragic gay" story is only bad when the tragedy is ending the gay IE One dies/They cant be together/World ends/Ones evil/etc, It's imo fine if its something like "pay a heavy price" or shit like that LiS ending.
The more "canon" end is where the problem lies though.
Billie Lurk is gay and pretty awesome:
Couldn't agree more. I suspect this stems from the fact that depicting men as love interest is still so damn difficult (you'll notice few aggressively straight women too, most dedicated female protags don't have love interests or relationships). But yeah, it's so lopsided it's not even funny. Where are the gay men? Trans representation is also severely lacking.
In addition to those already listed, Athena from the Pre-Sequel is also gay.
The difference in quality between the two endings is my major frustration. The "cannon" ending just felt like a cliche, and a harmful one at that. That they had the hetero love interest be the one to establish that path just put salt on the wound for me.
It's 2 or 3 years since I play Tales of Borderlands.
Didn't Athena (who is female Captain America if IRCC) just come and gone? didn't get a mention again until the final part.
Speaking as someone who played the campaign multiple times, but not DOTO, it leaves much to be desired about LGBT representation.
Technically there's Stilton(gay representation) , Emily is implied to be queer, and Billie Lurk(apparently, haven't played the DLC). Even so, it's more background and the only real depiction you'll see of same gender relationships will be of a guard and a civilian in a scripted sequence or witches talking to themselves(off the top of my head).
People who play video games complaining about "realism" only when it comes to diversity are seriously full of it.
There is a path in that game that let's you have an extended scene with her and her girlfriend. If you support her, I think they plan on getting married by the end of the game.
Hell yeah, few characters have gotten on my nerves so much. I snubbed him at every opportunity.
If some of you folks crave some dungeon crawler do give Labyrinth of Refrain a try!
3 of the important characters are lesbians and there's a strong, sad story between them. At the same time the game doesn't drill the stereotypical "its ok to be this way" stuff in regard to being homosexuals. At most one of the character only says once, in a flashback when she was young, "you like other girls?" but that's never brought again and we figure she just accepted that and rolled with it. It doesn't feel forced and it's a solid game all around.
I wasn't impressed. I've played a good mix of AAA and indie games and very few stood out with regard to LGBT representation.
I would have liked gay visibility to be on par with female representation in this gen. By "visibility" I don't mean label a bunch of random men and women as gay like you're going down a checklist. I mean actually show these characters as people on par with how other characters are shown, with their attractions woven into their personalities and social interactions.
It's really not hard. Some people act like it's a huge challenge not to make LGBT content feel out of place. But what's so tricky about showing normal people being themselves? Homophobia and heteronormativity overcomplicate the simple task of hiring talented LGBT writers to write what they know.
I would have liked gay visibility to be on par with female representation in this gen. By "visibility" I don't mean label a bunch of random men and women as gay like you're going down a checklist. I mean actually show these characters as people on par with how other characters are shown, with their attractions woven into their personalities and social interactions.
It's really not hard. Some people act like it's a huge challenge not to make LGBT content feel out of place. But what's so tricky about showing normal people being themselves? Homophobia and heteronormativity overcomplicate the simple task of hiring talented LGBT writers to write what they know.
This.
I know the trope, but I feel LiS is a bit different because the first game from my knowledge was partially written as the episodes were released. I'm not sure they always intended on Chloe being gay (as in I don't know if they wrote in her explicit sexuality as the episodes went on due to feed back or more time to consider her character). But outside of that, Chloe as a character has her life spiral out of control enterally due to circumstances that had nothing to do with her sexuality.
I think games are going to have difficult times subverting the "gays in graves" trope. One of the issues I see is a lot of drama and "twists" come from the inherent tragedy of the core cast of characters (at least in my view, drama is best when tragedy is involved). The closer you get to the main character or if you are the main character, the more likely you're going to be involved directly in the drama of the story, which depending on the story, reduces the likely hood of getting out with a happy ending.
Killing off gay characters who are side casts, or literally because of their sexuality (like ex-boyfriends/jealous admirers) is clearly problematic, but the greater inclusion of LGBT means you're going to have characters be directly involved in the nitty gritty of stories that aren't going to be painting happy endings. I think LiS is probably an example where you have a story that is going to have a tragic/borderline bitter sweet endings, that in this case had gay characters (or bi in Max's case)
Can't speak for Before the Storm because I haven't played it, but it's kinda the same deal considering Rachael's fate was sealed since the start of the first episode and Chloe was basically a borderline alcoholic in her teens after the death of her father.
User Banned (Permanent): Homophobic Trolling; History of Severe Infractions
What about Sekiro, the guy have feelings on Kuro but those feelings werent allowed and nothing happened
Can't believe I have to give Riot Games credit for this given what we know about them but they did they did have Neeko act gay in the actual League of Legends game. Also I want to mention Fear Effect Sedna in which we get a better interpretation of Hana and Rain then Fear Effect 2.
I mean it kind of depends. There are plenty of games with love interests that don't involve them dying, and giving the hetero couple a happy ending. But your point has plenty of merit. Constant angst is a common trope, and most video game stories are melodramatic to say the least. I think Life is Strange is a mostly good example of inclusive representation, it just bugs me that the two named characters that die in the "good" ending are queer. It's not entirely a rational reaction, and I am sorry if I came off judgemental. The only thing I kind of disagree with you on is that I think Chloe was at least implied to be in a romantic relationship with a woman even in episode one.