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BarcaTheGreat

BarcaTheGreat

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
4,201
Laughing Banana said:
Why am I not surprised the other ICC thread got locked, not even a day.
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Oh this fucken forum.. After so many vocal criticism of the mods silencing mostly pro Palestinian voices... It continues without a care. Fuck we need a new forum to openly discuss Palestinian genocide that isn't kept to just one thread using various excuses.

This place is prime example of "liberal but Palestine"
 
wrongway

wrongway

Member
Oct 27, 2017
989
I know I rarely post on this forum, but I thank everyone for continuing to post news and carry things forward despite the naked hostility here. All my love to you and yours. ♥
 
Booshka

Booshka

Member
May 8, 2018
5,241
Amherst, MA
effingvic said:

View: https://x.com/ryangrim/status/1792945760603869664

We should keep this and this law in mind whenever the US prattles on about the two-state solution.

When it comes to Palestinians, suddenly rules and laws matter.
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These kinds of revelations reveal the power of the US empire, how they control the world's access to food through their selective funding of institutions that they have immense influence over. It really is the underdevelopment and exploitation of the imperial periphery that is then maintained through "laws and the rules based international order."

Something similar happened when students asked about divestment and the University's say it is too difficult because the endowments are so tied into private equity investments that they can't even untangle their wealth from the war economy.

It's all so illuminating.
 
Psittacus

Psittacus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,191
effingvic said:

View: https://x.com/ryangrim/status/1792945760603869664

We should keep this and this law in mind whenever the US prattles on about the two-state solution.
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Damn it would suck if the US forced itself into starving all those people. It might want to look into doing something about that.

I think it's pretty clear at this point that the US would rather burn global institutions to the ground before relinquishing control of them and that opinion is bipartisan.
effingvic said:

View: https://youtu.be/0T1aZlKgNlc?si=0s7IVZkMUTIDTsVl

Matt miller says only Israel and the US has jurisdiction, not the ICC. Conveniently forgets Palestine had acceded to the Rome statute of the ICC in 2015 and granted the ICC jurisdiction over crimes committed in their territory.

This slimy shit eating motherfucker is up there with Kellyanne.
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The US's whole problem with the ICC has always been that US soldiers abroad would be subject to it's jurisdiction without them being a party to the treaty. I would simply not go to another country and commit war crimes but that's me.
 
ergoakari

ergoakari

Member
Oct 28, 2017
478
Canada
Psittacus said:
Damn it would suck if the US forced itself into starving all those people. It might want to look into doing something about that.

I think it's pretty clear at this point that the US would rather burn global institutions to the ground before relinquishing control of them and that opinion is bipartisan.

The US's whole problem with the ICC has always been that US soldiers abroad would be subject to it's jurisdiction without them being a party to the treaty. I would simply not go to another country and commit war crimes but that's me.
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I think this is clearly the problem. The USA is the country committing the most war crimes either directly or through its proxy states. Can't really have themselves be procecuted can they.
 
spman2099

spman2099

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,072
Psittacus said:
Damn it would suck if the US forced itself into starving all those people. It might want to look into doing something about that.

I think it's pretty clear at this point that the US would rather burn global institutions to the ground before relinquishing control of them and that opinion is bipartisan.

The US's whole problem with the ICC has always been that US soldiers abroad would be subject to it's jurisdiction without them being a party to the treaty. I would simply not go to another country and commit war crimes but that's me.
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This is absolutely why they want nothing to do with the ICC. They know that there are records of their war crimes floating around. And we all know how much accountability there is for their military, as the arrest warrants issued for those crimes were pretty much exclusively for the people who exposed them.

Artorias said:
Edit: Nevermind, this isn't the thread for that. The rules clearly say so, so I'll edit my post.
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I didn't see what you wrote, but I look back at my post and realize how unhelpful it was. That was my kneejerk reaction because I am so utterly disgusted by Biden, but I should have realized that it was going to illicit some strong reactions and could derail this thread. So that's my bad.
 
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NullPointer

NullPointer

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,479
Mars
Booshka said:
It's all so illuminating.
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These past 8 years have been the most illuminating of my life. Trump's presidency revealing all of the "gentleman's agreements" that exist in lieu of laws and regulation of those in true power, the Black Lives Matters protests, which brought about some changes at the margins, which are all currently being rolled back, and the Covid quarantines and lockdowns, which revealed how much the working class is actually valued, even when described as "essential", and now this... as the eyes of the world, including the US, finally started to see Israel's actions in a more critical light, we've witnessed a veritable fire-hose of bullshit, police violence and gaslighting to get us all to not see what we're clearly seeing, and to expose the platitudes of international law to be just hollow words if they would ever apply to the US and allies.

As they say, every day is a school day. I'm learning, and won't be forgetting these lessons any time soon.
 
Lighinthedarkness

Lighinthedarkness

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,028

Israeli forces raze parts of Gaza's Jabalia, hit Rafah with airstrikes

Israeli forces thrust deeper into Jabalia in northern Gaza on Tuesday, striking a hospital and destroying residential areas with tank and air bombardments, residents said, while Israeli airstrikes killed at least five people in Rafah in the south.

Simultaneous Israeli assaults on the northern and southern edges of the Gaza Strip this month have caused a new exodus of hundreds of thousands of people fleeing their homes, and sharply restricted the flow of aid, raising the risk of famine.

In Jabalia, a sprawling refugee camp built for displaced civilians 75 years ago, the Israeli army used bulldozers to clear shops and property near the local market, residents said, in a military operation that began almost two weeks ago.

Palestinian medics said Israeli missiles struck the emergency department of Jabalia's Kamal Adwan Hospital, prompting panicked staff to rush patients on hospital beds and stretchers to the rubble-strewn street outside.

"The first missile when it hit, it hit the entrance of the emergency department. We tried to enter, and then a second missile hit, and the third hit the building nearby," said Hussam Abu Safia, the head of hospital.

"We cannot go back inside to them ... The emergency department provides a service for children, the elderly and people inside the departments of the hospital."

Residents and medics said Israeli tanks were besieging another Jabalia hospital, Al-Awda Hospital, for the third day. In Geneva, WHO Director-General Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus said northern Gaza's sick and wounded were running out of options.


"These are the only two functional hospitals remaining in northern Gaza," Tedros said. "Ensuring their ability to deliver health services is imperative."
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Kain-Nosgoth

Kain-Nosgoth

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,698
Switzerland
I just noticed the prosecutor for the ICC case, karim khan, put on hold investigations into israel by his predecessor bensouda when he took office back in 2021... Hope he legit changed his mind and won't fuck up the case on purpose...
 
Psittacus

Psittacus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,191
ergoakari said:
I think this is clearly the problem. The USA is the country committing the most war crimes either directly or through its proxy states. Can't really have themselves be procecuted can they.
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I mean it's in the text of the act.
Ambassador Scheffer went on to tell the Congress that: `Multinational peacekeeping forces operating in a country that has joined the treaty can be exposed to the Court's jurisdiction even if the country of the individual peacekeeper has not joined the treaty. Thus, the treaty purports to establish an arrangement whereby United States armed forces operating overseas could be conceivably prosecuted by the international court even if the United States has not agreed to be bound by the treaty. Not only is this contrary to the most fundamental principles of treaty law, it could inhibit the ability of the United States to use its military to meet alliance obligations and participate in multinational operations, including humanitarian interventions to save civilian lives. Other contributors to peacekeeping operations will be similarly exposed.'.

Any American prosecuted by the International Criminal Court will, under the Rome Statute, be denied procedural protections to which all Americans are entitled under the Bill of Rights to the United States Constitution, such as the right to trial by jury.

Members of the Armed Forces of the United States should be free from the risk of prosecution by the International Criminal Court, especially when they are stationed or deployed around the world to protect the vital national interests of the United States. The United States Government has an obligation to protect the members of its Armed Forces, to the maximum extent possible, against criminal prosecutions carried out by the International Criminal Court.

In addition to exposing members of the Armed Forces of the United States to the risk of international criminal prosecution, the Rome Statute creates a risk that the President and other senior elected and appointed officials of the United States Government may be prosecuted by the International Criminal Court. Particularly if the Preparatory Commission agrees on a definition of the Crime of Aggression over United States objections, senior United States officials may be at risk of criminal prosecution for national security decisions involving such matters as responding to acts of terrorism, preventing the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction, and deterring aggression. No less than members of the Armed Forces of the United States, senior officials of the United States Government should be free from the risk of prosecution by the International Criminal Court, especially with respect to official actions taken by them to protect the national interests of the United States.

Any agreement within the Preparatory Commission on a definition of the Crime of Aggression that usurps the prerogative of the United Nations Security Council under Article 39 of the charter of the United Nations to `determine the existence of any .... act of aggression' would contravene the charter of the United Nations and undermine deterrence.
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Lighinthedarkness

Lighinthedarkness

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,028

View: https://x.com/NorwayMFA/status/1793169425694171385

Norway, Ireland and Spain formally recognize Palestinian state

Norway, Ireland and Spain announced Wednesday they will formally recognize a Palestinian state, dealing the latest diplomatic blow to Israel.

"In the midst of a war, with tens of thousands killed and injured, we must keep alive the only alternative that offers a political solution for Israelis and Palestinians alike," Norwegian Prime Minister Jonas Gahr Støre said.

"Two states, living side by side, in peace and security."

Israel ordered its ambassadors from Ireland and Norway to immediately return and said it would do the same for Spain.
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www.nbcnews.com

Ireland, Spain and Norway formally recognize Palestinian state

The U.S. said it opposed "unilateral recognition," while its close ally Israel immediately recalled its ambassadors to Oslo, Dublin and Madrid in protest.
www.nbcnews.com www.nbcnews.com
 
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Rosenkrantz

Rosenkrantz

Banned
Jan 17, 2018
5,355
Too little too late, but I'm glad there's an open dissent among NATO nations and EU members. Hopefully more will come in a near future.
 

vrietje

Member
Dec 4, 2018
1,009
DiceAndMonsters said:
EU should do reciprocal sanctions on the US senators here. The ICC must be protected.
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As an Dutch citizen, I agreeif the US does this, the EU should sanction every american that voted for. Even if it means sanctioning the President of the US.
But as an Dutch citizen, the comming gouverment would probbally just sanction ICC itself. Since atleast the biggest party is an agent of Israel and Russia.
 
Oghuz

Oghuz

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,320
Lighinthedarkness said:

View: https://x.com/NorwayMFA/status/1793169425694171385

Norway, Ireland and Spain formally recognize Palestinian state


www.nbcnews.com

Ireland, Spain and Norway formally recognize Palestinian state

The U.S. said it opposed "unilateral recognition," while its close ally Israel immediately recalled its ambassadors to Oslo, Dublin and Madrid in protest.
www.nbcnews.com www.nbcnews.com
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Better late than never. More countries need to follow suit.

vrietje said:
As an Dutch citizen, I agreeif the US does this, the EU should sanction every american that voted for. Even if it means sanctioning the President of the US.
But as an Dutch citizen, the comming gouverment would probbally just sanction ICC itself. Since atleast the biggest party is an agent of Israel and Russia.
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Wilders and co would sooner invade the ICC in The Hague themselves than ever sanction anything Israel related.
 
Brazil

Brazil

Actual Brazilian
Banned
Oct 24, 2017
18,928
São Paulo, Brazil
BarcaTheGreat

BarcaTheGreat

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
4,201
DiceAndMonsters

DiceAndMonsters

Alt account
Banned
Feb 20, 2024
306
I've been listening to the Israeli ambassador to Ireland on the radio and I feel like I'm on a different planet when they talk about what's happening. The official (maybe common/public??) Israeli world view is so weird to me. I get the ambassador is the official mouthpiece of the government but everything is Hamas and nothing is IDF/Israel. They talk about adhering to this and that, allowing blah and ICC outrageous, etc. But there no engagements on the facts.

And its like they don't realise my own country's history and how we literally fought for our sovereignty, how messy it all was, and how we were labelled terrorists for much of the time when we did.

Their talking points just wont fly here.
 
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Efreeti

Efreeti

attempting to circumvent a ban with an alt account
Banned
Jul 5, 2019
519
Laughing Banana said:
Why am I not surprised the other ICC thread got locked, not even a day.
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Is this more brigading by pro-Israel people?

Great news about Ireland, Norway, Spain. Discussion is underway right now in Belgium, but it's not a done deal, decision won't be today.

Blinken threatening starvation, the evil empire is full mask off.
 
Scuffed

Scuffed

Member
Oct 28, 2017
12,659
Laughing Banana said:
Why am I not surprised the other ICC thread got locked, not even a day.
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It was expected Libs are super insecure and that thread was not favorable to Biden. It is what it is let them preserve their safe space if it helps them sleep at night.

Lighinthedarkness said:

View: https://x.com/NorwayMFA/status/1793169425694171385

Norway, Ireland and Spain formally recognize Palestinian state


www.nbcnews.com

Ireland, Spain and Norway formally recognize Palestinian state

The U.S. said it opposed "unilateral recognition," while its close ally Israel immediately recalled its ambassadors to Oslo, Dublin and Madrid in protest.
www.nbcnews.com www.nbcnews.com
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Great news. Based Ireland, Spain and Norway!
 
rzks21

rzks21

Member
Aug 17, 2023
2,715
Great news about Norway, Ireland and Spain. More countries should follow suit and leave the Germans, British and gringos isolated in their racism.

Speaking of German racism…


View: https://x.com/MiRo_SPD/status/1793173555355484499


This is supposed to be a liberal German politician, lmao. They truly are trying to compete with the US to see which country is more bloodthirsty and racist around this issue.

effingvic said:

View: https://x.com/ryangrim/status/1792945760603869664

We should keep this and this law in mind whenever the US prattles on about the two-state solution.

When it comes to Palestinians, suddenly rules and laws matter.
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Pretty much confirming they're a rogue state. Every day my opinion of the US worsens. Its evilness knows no bounds.
 
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DiceAndMonsters

DiceAndMonsters

Alt account
Banned
Feb 20, 2024
306
Its a fake threat because the UNSC has to approve full membership, so the US themselves would have to approve or abstain. The only way something officially becomes a state.7

If a formal peace process ever gets underway there will have to be a package of laws changed by the US to avoid all the little traps they'll laid for the world if someone looks sideways at Israel.
 
Hana-Bi

Hana-Bi

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,029
Germany
rzks21 said:
Great news about Norway, Ireland and Spain. More countries should follow suit and leave the Germans, British and gringos isolated in their racism.

Speaking of German racism…


View: https://x.com/MiRo_SPD/status/1793173555355484499


This is supposed to be a liberal German politician, lmao. They truly are trying to compete with the US to see which country is more bloodthirsty and racist around this issue.
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I'm glad he's quitting politics next year. :) Other politicians from his party are encouraging to do the same as Norway, Spain and Ireland though.
 
rzks21

rzks21

Member
Aug 17, 2023
2,715
Hana-Bi said:
I'm glad he's quitting politics next year. :) Other politicians from his party are encouraging to do the same as Norway, Spain and Ireland though.
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That's great to hear, as an outsider it can really feel like the whole German political establishment is committed to the eternal subjugation of Palestinians. I hope some day these positive forces are able to take back all the Holocaust blame they've shifted toward the Palestinians and their allies.
 
ArkkAngel007

ArkkAngel007

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
5,219
I'm glad this thread continues to weather the forum. It's been the best place to parse through actual news and information.

I do think we shouldn't misrepresent many of the thread closures. Yes, staff aren't doing a good job in following up and doing Microsoft customer support level canned copy pastes when they do, and there certainly is mass reporting and potential brigading occurring. But folks are mostly talking past one another, doing "do you condemn" qualifier level fallacies to each other despite most having that as the unsaid baseline of discussion and not really wanting to engage real discussion. Especially when for some reason it's all about what to do in November and after, instead of what to do now. Most telling is probably that the campus protest thread has avoided such issues in comparison, because that's the action here and now that should be well beyond that scope.

Lighinthedarkness said:

View: https://x.com/NorwayMFA/status/1793169425694171385

Norway, Ireland and Spain formally recognize Palestinian state


www.nbcnews.com

Ireland, Spain and Norway formally recognize Palestinian state

The U.S. said it opposed "unilateral recognition," while its close ally Israel immediately recalled its ambassadors to Oslo, Dublin and Madrid in protest.
www.nbcnews.com www.nbcnews.com
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It shouldn't have taken this long and for Israel to escalate their imperialism into full blown genocide, but I'm glad to see we're finally getting some movement in the west in recognition. Just gotta work on getting the US administration to back down and pivot sooner rather than later. Is there any way that these countries and others can apply more pressure to make Biden's and the State Department's positions untenable while not greatly harming themselves?
 
effingvic

effingvic

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,402
spineduke said:
The Americans do not support a Palestinian state, they support the slow euthanasia of a people. It's mask off on a level I've never witnessed before.
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They were hoping Palestinians would die slowly and quietly so they could continue to lead them on until they no longer existed, but now they're on board with getting it over quickly.

Its incredible how so many of America's institutions have cooperated and agreed to ensure Palestinians are obliterated and how quickly they mobilized when their genocidal plans were threatened. From universities, media companies, big businesses, financial institutions, government at all levels, the police, all of them came together to crush any kind of opposition against the genocide.

I knew there was the Israeli exception in this country but I never realized just how strong this exception was. We've subjected our kids and other civilians to police brutality, destroyed our credibility around the world, cast doubt and made a mockery of IHL that we supposedly stand for, lied, gaslit and covered up crimes in plain view, all so a genocide can continue without protest.

Lighinthedarkness said:

View: https://x.com/NorwayMFA/status/1793169425694171385

Norway, Ireland and Spain formally recognize Palestinian state


www.nbcnews.com

Ireland, Spain and Norway formally recognize Palestinian state

The U.S. said it opposed "unilateral recognition," while its close ally Israel immediately recalled its ambassadors to Oslo, Dublin and Madrid in protest.
www.nbcnews.com www.nbcnews.com
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Amazing news. Well done.

Israel and America's isolation grows daily.

Lighinthedarkness said:

View: https://x.com/hamdahsalhut/status/1793218041288765943
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This guy has earned his arrest warrants. Announcing more war crimes publicly when the ICC is seeking warrants for your ass is truly bold.
 
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hanshen

hanshen

Member
Jun 24, 2018
4,072
Chicago, IL
ArkkAngel007 said:
I'm glad this thread continues to weather the forum. It's been the best place to parse through actual news and information.

I do think we shouldn't misrepresent many of the thread closures. Yes, staff aren't doing a good job in following up and doing Microsoft customer support level canned copy pastes when they do, and there certainly is mass reporting and potential brigading occurring. But folks are mostly talking past one another, doing "do you condemn" qualifier level fallacies to each other despite most having that as the unsaid baseline of discussion and not really wanting to engage real discussion. Especially when for some reason it's all about what to do in November and after, instead of what to do now. Most telling is probably that the campus protest thread has avoided such issues in comparison, because that's the action here and now that should be well beyond that scope.
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The white liberals here should think long and hard why racial minority communities kept getting driven off this site next time they claim to be a progressive ally.
 
Lighinthedarkness

Lighinthedarkness

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,028

Israeli forces move deeper into Rafah in night of heavy battle

Israeli tanks advanced to the edge of a crowded district in the heart of Rafah on Wednesday during one of the most intense nights of bombardment of the southern Gaza city since Israel launched its offensive there this month.

Israel's assault on Rafah on Gaza's southern edge has set hundreds of thousands of people fleeing what had been a refuge for half of the enclave's 2.3 million people. It has also cut off the main access routes for aid into Gaza, drawing international fears of mass casualties and famine.

Residents and militants said tanks had taken up new positions on Wednesday further west than before along the southern border fence with Egypt, and were now stationed on the edge of the Yibna neighbourhood at the centre of Rafah. They had not yet entered the district as fighting had been intense.

Palestinian residents said Israeli drones were firing into the Yibna suburb and had opened fire overnight on fishing boats on the beach of Rafah causing some to catch fire.


"There has been no stopping of Israeli fire all night, from drones, helicopters, warplanes, and tanks," said one resident of Rafah, asking for his name to be withheld to protect his security.

"Tanks made a limited push southeast, still limited but they have advanced under heavy fire all night," he told Reuters via a chat app.
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effingvic

effingvic

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,402

Pentagon says none of the aid unloaded from US pier off coast of Gaza has been delivered to broader Palestinian population


CNN — None of the aid that has been unloaded from the temporary pier the US constructed off the coast of Gaza has been delivered to the broader Palestinian population, as the US works with the UN and Israel to identify safe delivery routes inside the enclave, the Pentagon said on Tuesday.

Several desperate Gazans intercepted trucks delivering aid from the pier over the weekend, leading the UN to suspend the delivery operations until the logistical challenges are resolved.
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The US is working with Israel and the United Nations to establish "alternative routes" for the safe delivery of the 569 tons of aid transported to Gaza since last week, Pentagon spokesperson Maj. Gen. Pat Ryder said on Tuesday.

Asked whether any of the aid has been delivered to the people of Gaza, Ryder said, "As of today, I do not believe so." He added that aid had been held in an assembly area on shore, but as of Tuesday had begun getting moved to warehouses for distribution throughout Gaza as alternative routes have been established.
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The Pentagon said in April that the goal was to deliver roughly 500 tons of aid — amounting to 90 truckloads — per day to the starving population of Gaza, with the intent of working up to 150 trucks daily. The pier was finally anchored to Gaza last week as the humanitarian situation in the enclave has only worsened.
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Absolutely clown show.

Gaza needs at least 600 trucks daily to address the threat of famine. Barely 100 trucks of aid altogether made it on shore in the last few days. Its a fucking joke. Open the land borders.
 
Scuffed

Scuffed

Member
Oct 28, 2017
12,659

View: https://x.com/netanyahu/status/1793326581449892000
Look at this vile mass murdering fuck basically trying to justify continued oppression of Palestinians by saying 80% support Oct 7th. This man should not be bringing up polls. Hamas support in Gaza is very complicated and Bibi propped them up for his own agenda of ruining a two state solution. Netanyahu has been a festering boil for decades. I don't even know what Israel would look like without his web of toxic influence and criminal backdoor dealings.
 
Scuffed

Scuffed

Member
Oct 28, 2017
12,659
Gilad Garon said:
This probably won't change the mentality in this thread, but still, this is why we fight the Hamas.

www.haaretz.com

Hostages' families air footage showing Hamas abducting Israeli women soldiers into Gaza

The Video, Just Over Three Minutes Long, Is Trimmed and Edited to Remove Any Excessively Graphic Content, According to the Hostages' Families. It Was Captured by Body Cameras Carried by the Hamas Terrorists
www.haaretz.com www.haaretz.com
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No one in this thread supports Hamas so I don't know why our mentality would change. We are unanimously against collective punishment whether it be by Hamas or Israel as it is a war crime. We also seek Palestinian emancipation from decades of oppression at the hands of Israel's apartheid.
 
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